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IM and standard of bike

  • 10-09-2012 11:10am
    #1
    miller82
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,634 ✭✭✭


    I'm booked up to do IM Austria next year and am wondering if I will lose much time because of my bike.
    This is what I have (2011 version with Mavic Aksium wheels) : http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=75532
    Nothing amazing

    Personally I think that until you can say you have trained as hard as possible and are as fast as you can go physically, then you don’t need to get too caught up on buying fancy bikes. I plan on working hard enough over the winter on the bike and I did a decentish time on the bike in Galway (2.38).

    BUT, there is a reason so many people invest in expensive bikes (apart from showing off). I don't really fancy spending 3 grand on another bike considering this one is only about 6 months old and once I have done IMA I will only be focusing on Oly distance races which I think my bike is grand for. I would be willing to get better wheels than the Aksium on it if people were saying this would make a difference.

    Long story short, will I be left behind badly over such a long distance with such a basic bike ??


Comments

  • #2
    tunney
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,584 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    miller82 wrote: »
    I'm booked up to do IM Austria next year and am wondering if I will lose much time because of my bike.
    This is what I have (2011 version with Mavic Aksium wheels) : http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=75532
    Nothing amazing

    Personally I think that until you can say you have trained as hard as possible and are as fast as you can go physically, then you don’t need to get too caught up on buying fancy bikes. I plan on working hard enough over the winter on the bike and I did a decentish time on the bike in Galway (2.38).

    BUT, there is a reason so many people invest in expensive bikes (apart from showing off). I don't really fancy spending 3 grand on another bike considering this one is only about 6 months old and once I have done IMA I will only be focusing on Oly distance races which I think my bike is grand for. I would be willing to get better wheels than the Aksium on it if people were saying this would make a difference.

    Long story short, will I be left behind badly over such a long distance with such a basic bike ??

    Do you have a good position on that bike with clip ons tri bars?

    I was racked in Austria 2010 beside a guy with a Spesh Shiv, with brand new SRMs and fancy zipp wheels. I admired his bike and he was rather arrogant about his bike and biking. As I passed him and ultimately left him for dead on the second lap I turned to him and said "that really is a beautiful looking bike".

    Its not about the bike, its about the rider. However if your position on the bike is crap then it does become a factor and it is harder to get a good position for long distance tri on a road bike.


  • #3
    miller82
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,634 ✭✭✭miller82


    I have no idea how good or bad my position is (I am having a bit of nerve problem in my lower back since I went up in distance for Galway 70.30 so I'm going to guess not very good).

    If I decide that I am sticking with this bike I would probably pay the rip off prices (surely a hundred notes is well over priced) and get the bike set up done properly as well as investing in new wheels


  • #4
    MrCreosote
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,320 ✭✭✭MrCreosote


    miller82 wrote: »

    Long story short, will I be left behind badly over such a long distance with such a basic bike ??

    No.

    The engine is the most important thing. Based on your Galway time, I'd say yours is fine!

    You'll pass plenty of people on blinged-out bikes with terrible positions.


  • #5
    miller82
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,634 ✭✭✭miller82


    MrCreosote wrote: »
    No.

    The engine is the most important thing. Based on your Galway time, I'd say yours is fine!

    You'll pass plenty of people on blinged-out bikes with terrible positions.

    as in terrible position on their actual bike or terrible field positions


  • #6
    tunney
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,584 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    miller82 wrote: »
    I have no idea how good or bad my position is (I am having a bit of nerve problem in my lower back since I went up in distance for Galway 70.30 so I'm going to guess not very good).

    If I decide that I am sticking with this bike I would probably pay the rip off prices (surely a hundred notes is well over priced) and get the bike set up done properly as well as investing in new wheels

    I going to pull you up on that.

    "surely a hundred notes is well over priced".

    No, no it is not. You drop how much on a bike and it really all comes down to the position and you think that over a 100 euro is well over priced?

    No, no it is not.

    If I had a new bike and I wasn't that clued in on positions I would drop 100 euro in a heart beat on it.

    That being said it all depends on WHO you give your money too. If his name doesn't start in "FER" and end in "NADO" then yes you are (Possibly "FR" and "ANK" either).

    I have done bike fits for people. I have fixed bike fits for people after they have had paid big money for fits from "experts". I am pretty good at it. However I'm thinking of going to Fernado for a bike fit. Not for the position aspect but because I think my cleat positioning can be improved.

    You are paying for expertise and training. If someone has it, and its valuable, why wouldn't you pay for it?

    *Note - Fernado is the best at tri bike fits without a shadow of a doubt, most shops not have a bit fitting service. It costs and its sh1t usually.


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  • #7
    miller82
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,634 ✭✭✭miller82


    tunney wrote: »
    I going to pull you up on that.

    "surely a hundred notes is well over priced".

    No, no it is not. You drop how much on a bike and it really all comes down to the position and you think that over a 100 euro is well over priced?

    No, no it is not.

    If I had a new bike and I wasn't that clued in on positions I would drop 100 euro in a heart beat on it.

    That being said it all depends on WHO you give your money too. If his name doesn't start in "FER" and end in "NADO" then yes you are (Possibly "FR" and "ANK" either).

    I have done bike fits for people. I have fixed bike fits for people after they have had paid big money for fits from "experts". I am pretty good at it. However I'm thinking of going to Fernado for a bike fit. Not for the position aspect but because I think my cleat positioning can be improved.

    You are paying for expertise and training. If someone has it, and its valuable, why wouldn't you pay for it?

    *Note - Fernado is the best at tri bike fits without a shadow of a doubt, most shops not have a bit fitting service. It costs and its sh1t usually.

    okay okay, fair enough

    so you'd recommend sticking with what i have and spend money on wheels maybe (thoughts ?) and proper bike fit ?


  • #8
    tunney
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,584 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    miller82 wrote: »
    okay okay, fair enough

    so you'd recommend sticking with what i have and spend money on wheels maybe (thoughts ?) and proper bike fit ?

    No. I would recommend determining IF you can get a proper fit on the bike. If you cannot then really you need a new bike.


  • #9
    Fazz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,121 ✭✭✭Fazz


    I'd echo importance of bike fit, but also surprised the benefits of tt vs road bike has not come up.

    TT bikes will always allow better aero position and better power generation IMO.

    Completely depends on your Goals and Budget really.

    Sounds like you will absolutely do just fine on current motor.
    Could you be a few mins faster on TT bike?
    Undoubtedly IMO. Probably around 4 at a guess - assuming you get proper fit and aero and comfortable in that position.


    Worth looking into current nerve issue first as its also possible a TT bike/position could worsen that and be counter productive.


  • #10
    miller82
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,634 ✭✭✭miller82


    tunney wrote: »
    No. I would recommend determining IF you can get a proper fit on the bike. If you cannot then really you need a new bike.

    aaahh, i see. i didnt realise this was a possible outcome


  • #11
    miller82
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,634 ✭✭✭miller82


    Fazz wrote: »
    I'd echo importance of bike fit, but also surprised the benefits of tt vs road bike has not come up.

    TT bikes will always allow better aero position and better power generation IMO.

    Completely depends on your Goals and Budget really.

    Sounds like you will absolutely do just fine on current motor.
    Could you be a few mins faster on TT bike?
    Undoubtedly IMO. Probably around 4 at a guess - assuming you get proper fit and aero and comfortable in that position.


    Worth looking into current nerve issue first as its also possible a TT bike/position could worsen that and be counter productive.

    cheers

    A few things - firstly i could probably only go to about 3k (maybe 3.5k), so would i get much of a step up compared to what i have to justify it ?
    5 mins wouldnt be enough for me to justify it it would have to be over ten mins really , but then again its one race we are talking about - as i said i'm happy enough with it for Oly's for now and that will be my focus once i do this. i would potentially look at a step up in bike for the 2014 season


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  • #12
    sconhome
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,468 ✭✭✭sconhome


    tunney wrote: »
    No. I would recommend determining IF you can get a proper fit on the bike. If you cannot then really you need a new bike.
    miller82 wrote: »
    aaahh, i see. i didnt realise this was a possible outcome

    Further to that. If you cannot get a proper fit on your current bike, the fitter will be able to give you the geometry setup of a bike that will be best suited to you. So if you have to go shopping you know exactly which bikes to look at.

    A second option on the fit has to be bikefit.ie. Fernando did my first ever bikefit and if I couldn't get to him now I would trust James.


  • #13
    tunney
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,584 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    miller82 wrote: »
    cheers

    A few things - firstly i could probably only go to about 3k (maybe 3.5k), so would i get much of a step up compared to what i have to justify it ?
    5 mins wouldnt be enough for me to justify it it would have to be over ten mins really , but then again its one race we are talking about - as i said i'm happy enough with it for Oly's for now and that will be my focus once i do this. i would potentially look at a step up in bike for the 2014 season

    Over an IM distance race I suspect a good bit more than 5 minutes. plus the effect on the run of getting the aero position at less of a muscular cost.


  • #14
    Brick Session
    Closed Accounts Posts: 455 ✭✭Brick Session


    Lads, who is this Fernando you speak of and how can he be found?


  • #15
    sconhome
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,468 ✭✭✭sconhome


    Brick Session wrote: »
    Lads, who is this Fernando you speak of and how can he be found?

    Fit4Bike.ie

    Now based in Spain (hence reference to Bikefit.ie) but does fitting camps here quite regularily.


  • #16
    Brick Session
    Closed Accounts Posts: 455 ✭✭Brick Session


    amphkingwest wrote: »
    Fit4Bike.ie

    Now based in Spain (hence reference to Bikefit.ie) but does fitting camps here quite regularily.

    Thanks for that, it will have to be bikefit so as I don't plan on a trip to Spain anytime soon.


  • #17
    peter kern
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭peter kern


    miller82 wrote: »
    I'm booked up to do IM Austria next year and am wondering if I will lose much time because of my bike.
    This is what I have (2011 version with Mavic Aksium wheels) : http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=75532
    Nothing amazing

    Personally I think that until you can say you have trained as hard as possible and are as fast as you can go physically, then you don’t need to get too caught up on buying fancy bikes. I plan on working hard enough over the winter on the bike and I did a decentish time on the bike in Galway (2.38).

    BUT, there is a reason so many people invest in expensive bikes (apart from showing off). I don't really fancy spending 3 grand on another bike considering this one is only about 6 months old and once I have done IMA I will only be focusing on Oly distance races which I think my bike is grand for. I would be willing to get better wheels than the Aksium on it if people were saying this would make a difference.

    Long story short, will I be left behind badly over such a long distance with such a basic bike ??

    I think currently you can improve as much on stopping binge drinking than getting new wheels ( and you would even save money on alc )
    this is pink but half true from an thread i remember ;-)

    so yes you are leaving time on the road at the same time I iam sure if you are really concered about money you have plenty other ways that do not cost you money.
    that could be training serious ( could save you 20-40 min over an Ironman)
    bike fit that could save you also up to 15 min if you get back problems .
    and new wheels and bike that could set you back up to 6000 euro and prob save you up to 20 min
    Ideally you do all three
    andin terem s of importantce
    1 train harder
    2 life more like an athlete
    (payable )
    3 get bike fit
    4 spend on gear .

    5 sign up for Podersdorf Irondistance race ( entrace fee 150 euro i think and spend the saved entrance money on a bike fit and wheels )


    you are lucky you have the options. as you are defo not maxed out in the way you train (not even talking abut a coach as you seem to to qute a few things right)
    Bella bayliss usually uses non aero wheels and trains harder and her IM Austria pb is 8h 50 .....
    a fair compromise would be 2nd hand mavic cosmic wheels that sell for around 450 euro


  • #18
    tunney
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,584 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    peter kern wrote: »
    I think currently you can improve as much on stopping binge drinking than getting new wheels ( and you would even save money on alc )
    this is pink but half true from an thread i remember ;-)

    so yes you are leaving time on the road at the same time I iam sure if you are really concered about money you have plenty other ways that do not cost you money.
    that could be training serious ( could save you 20-40 min over an Ironman)
    bike fit that could save you also up to 15 min if you get back problems .
    and new wheels and bike that could set you back up to 6000 euro and prob save you up to 20 min
    Ideally you do all three
    andin terem s of importantce
    1 train harder
    2 life more like an athlete
    (payable )
    3 get bike fit
    4 spend on gear .

    5 sign up for Podersdorf Irondistance race ( entrace fee 150 euro i think and spend the saved entrance money on a bike fit and wheels )


    you are lucky you have the options. as you are defo not maxed out in the way you train (not even talking abut a coach as you seem to to qute a few things right)
    Bella bayliss usually uses non aero wheels and trains harder and her IM Austria pb is 8h 50 .....
    a fair compromise would be 2nd hand mavic cosmic wheels that sell for around 450 euro

    pretty sure her PB was set in a valid year when PBs (and records) should be counted.

    The crazy germans points are very valid, may even print them out for myself as future reminders/motivation. Particularly no 2.

    1 train harder
    2 life more like an athlete
    (payable )
    3 get bike fit
    4 spend on gear .


  • #19
    miller82
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,634 ✭✭✭miller82


    peter kern wrote: »
    I think currently you can improve as much on stopping binge drinking than getting new wheels ( and you would even save money on alc )
    this is pink but half true from an thread i remember ;-)

    so yes you are leaving time on the road at the same time I iam sure if you are really concered about money you have plenty other ways that do not cost you money.
    that could be training serious ( could save you 20-40 min over an Ironman)
    bike fit that could save you also up to 15 min if you get back problems .
    and new wheels and bike that could set you back up to 6000 euro and prob save you up to 20 min
    Ideally you do all three
    andin terem s of importantce
    1 train harder
    2 life more like an athlete
    (payable )
    3 get bike fit
    4 spend on gear .

    5 sign up for Podersdorf Irondistance race ( entrace fee 150 euro i think and spend the saved entrance money on a bike fit and wheels )


    you are lucky you have the options. as you are defo not maxed out in the way you train (not even talking abut a coach as you seem to to qute a few things right)
    Bella bayliss usually uses non aero wheels and trains harder and her IM Austria pb is 8h 50 .....
    a fair compromise would be 2nd hand mavic cosmic wheels that sell for around 450 euro

    ha ha, fair play to your memory, yes i did start a thread about drinking, and have cut back on the binge drinking :D.

    As i couldnt possibly afford anything above 3.5k, i'm thinking a proper bike fit is the way to go. if i could take 15mins off between hard work and bike fit i'd be delighted

    is it difficult enough to pick up a pair of these wheels second hand ?


  • #20
    sconhome
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,468 ✭✭✭sconhome


    Strangely enough in a time gone by BC (Before Children) philosophy would have had that advice in approximately the reverse order:

    4 train harder
    3 life more like an athlete
    (payable )
    2 get bike fit
    1 spend on gear .

    Now the very last thing likely to happen is for me to spend on gear (unless its runners!!). My best season has just gone by using 5 & 6 year old equipment and just training better & smarter. If I continue to improve next year I might invest in a new frame & wheels, maybe.


  • #21
    Oryx
    Subscribers Posts: 19,425 ✭✭✭✭Oryx


    In Austria this year I saw a lady wheeling a bike with flat pedals into transition. I have no idea how she got on but it proves there will be all kinds of bikes there.

    I think above all you need to sort out your back issue. If that flares up with all your long IM training rides youre snookered. So I agree, comfort and an efficient position is better than throwing money at it (unless you have it to spare :) )


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  • #22
    bryangiggsy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭bryangiggsy


    Brick Session wrote: »
    Lads, who is this Fernando you speak of and how can he be found?

    Living in Malaga now but his partner in crime Frank O Connor who does the same fits with the same equipment can be founf in richies bikes in Swords!


  • #23
    coppinger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73 ✭✭coppinger


    Sign up for the hardman iron distance in killarney and save on hotel, flights, car rental etc. Keep your money in the irish economy - race iron distance in ireland!


  • #24
    RacoonQueen
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,366 Mod ✭✭✭✭RacoonQueen


    coppinger wrote: »
    Sign up for the hardman iron distance in killarney and save on hotel, flights, car rental etc. Keep your money in the irish economy - race iron distance in ireland!

    Would it be weird to get an mdot tattoo after doing hardman?


  • #25
    tunney
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,584 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    coppinger wrote: »
    Sign up for the hardman iron distance in killarney and save on hotel, flights, car rental etc. Keep your money in the irish economy - race iron distance in ireland!

    Hardly comparing apples and oranges?

    Like telling your man in Pretty Woman "save your money and do a crack whore, no need to spend the extra cash on Julia Roberts".


  • #26
    kennyb3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,724 ✭✭✭kennyb3


    The injury prevention aspect has to be a much bigger thing than minutes saved.

    Training harder won't fix that, in fact the opposite. If you want to train harder and longer you need to be set up right.

    You say you've a sore back - and think €100 is a waste on a bike fit. Go figure.

    I'd say 80% of people (or more in all reality) I see riding around are extending their pedal stroke too much (saddle too high, angles all wrong).

    Go see Frank imho.


  • #27
    griffin100
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,007 ✭✭✭griffin100


    RacoonQueen wrote: »
    Would it be weird to get an mdot tattoo after doing hardman?

    It'd be like getting a McDonalds tatoo after eating in Burgerking.........similar but not the same :pac:


  • #28
    MrCreosote
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,320 ✭✭✭MrCreosote


    RacoonQueen wrote: »
    Would it be weird to get an mdot tattoo after doing hardman?

    It's weird to get an mdot tattoo at any time.


  • #29
    Ceepo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,738 ✭✭✭Ceepo


    MrCreosote wrote: »
    RacoonQueen wrote: »
    Would it be weird to get an mdot tattoo after doing hardman?

    It's weird to get an mdot tattoo at any time.

    Why


  • #30
    hf4z6sqo7vjngi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,454 ✭✭✭hf4z6sqo7vjngi


    Ceepo wrote: »
    Why

    Ask yourself this would you get a tattoo of microsoft, mcdonalds or even haribo on your skin?


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  • #31
    tunney
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,584 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    Tara Thousands Cue wrote: »
    Ask yourself this would you get a tattoo of microsoft, mcdonalds or even haribo on your skin?

    I have two of the above.


  • #32
    ray o
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 707 ✭✭✭ray o


    Ceepo wrote: »
    Why

    I've not seen the Mdot tattoo discussion on here yet. Please discuss


  • #33
    RedB
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,469 ✭✭✭RedB


    ray o wrote: »
    I've not seen the Mdot tattoo discussion on here yet. Please discuss

    Maybe here?


  • #34
    Ceepo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,738 ✭✭✭Ceepo


    Tara Thousands Cue wrote: »
    Ceepo wrote: »
    Why

    Ask yourself this would you get a tattoo of microsoft, mcdonalds or even haribo on your skin?
    No would be the answer to that.

    But I wouldn't compare ordering a Happy meal or down loading the lastest thing from Microsoft to doing an Ironman.
    Not everyone eats at McDonald's.
    Not everyone gets a tattoo
    Not everyone does an ironman,
    and not everyone who does an ironman will get a tattoo.

    Most who do, get it as a symbol of something the have achieved more than trying to be a symbol to corporate world

    That's in my opinion

    Each to there own


  • #35
    ray o
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 707 ✭✭✭ray o


    RedB wrote: »
    Maybe here?

    I said here not there


  • #36
    griffin100
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,007 ✭✭✭griffin100


    Ceepo wrote: »
    No would be the answer to that.

    But I wouldn't compare ordering a Happy meal or down loading the lastest thing from Microsoft to doing an Ironman.
    Not everyone eats at McDonald's.
    Not everyone gets a tattoo
    Not everyone does an ironman,
    and not everyone who does an ironman will get a tattoo.

    Most who do, get it as a symbol of something the have achieved more than trying to be a symbol to corporate world

    That's in my opinion

    Each to there own

    An mdot is a corporate logo, nothing more, you might as well get a Microsoft logo tattooed on your leg. I also suspect its not about commemorating your achievement, it's about saying to the world 'look at me, I did an ironman' - that's my opinion on it but each to their own ;)


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  • #37
    RedB
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,469 ✭✭✭RedB


    ray o wrote: »
    I said here not there

    That's right :)


  • #38
    ray o
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 707 ✭✭✭ray o


    RedB wrote: »
    That's right :)

    you've lost me....are you acting the pr1ck or am I missing something :)


  • #39
    RedB
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,469 ✭✭✭RedB


    ray o wrote: »
    you've lost me....are you acting the pr1ck or am I missing something :)

    neither - just not that interested in a thread about tattoos here. Work away though


  • #40
    Brick Session
    Closed Accounts Posts: 455 ✭✭Brick Session


    griffin100 wrote: »
    An mdot is a corporate logo, nothing more, you might as well get a Microsoft logo tattooed on your leg. I also suspect its not about commemorating your achievement, it's about saying to the world 'look at me, I did an ironman' - that's my opinion on it but each to their own ;)

    I think this is going to be a case of each to their own. If you want a tottoo that shows that you have achieved something that most people dream about (or hold on, maybe most sane people don't dream about 140.6) then get one.

    Only those who know what the symbol of an MDot represents will understand it and recognise the achievement that it represents. Maybe you will have to explain the tattoo to some people if they ask. At the end of the day, everyone is individual, get the fecking tattoo if you want. Don't get it if you don't want it but don't knock those who do or don't get one.

    As Ceepo said, I don't think you can compare buying a fecking big mac or Windows 7 to the adventure that is an Iron distance race but again everyone will have their own stance on the whole issue of getting a tattoo after completing the distance within the time.

    Live and let live.


  • #41
    Oryx
    Subscribers Posts: 19,425 ✭✭✭✭Oryx


    I decided not to get an mdot because:

    I felt my IM time was too slow.
    After the event was such an anticlimax - a tat didn't seem important.
    An mdot is like wearing a target in every other race you ever do.
    Its like a form of showing off. :)


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  • #42
    ray o
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 707 ✭✭✭ray o


    RedB wrote: »
    neither - just not that interested in a thread about tattoos here. Work away though

    Your right, it's off topic.


  • #43
    BTH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,075 Mod ✭✭✭✭BTH


    RedB wrote: »
    neither - just not that interested in a thread about tattoos here. Work away though
    ray o wrote: »
    Your right, it's off topic.

    With my newly acquired mod hat on I'll have to agree with these two gentlemen. If you want to discuss the merits or otherwise of an M-dot tattoo please feel free to open a new thread on that topic. Otherwise, can we keep this one back on the original topic. Thanks.


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