Plan to build $84 million Super Mosque in Dublin Ireland.

Memnoch · 09-10-2012 07:47PM

MrD012 wrote: »

But Islam itself is riddled with intolerance ,

therefore to be intolerant towards it is actually promoting tolerance in the long term .

anyway , there is tolerance and there is naivety

Nonsense. The same could be said of Christianity with their homophobic, anti-science, anti-women agenda.

See how generalisations work?

Nodin · 09-10-2012 07:48PM

MrD012 wrote: »

But Islam itself is riddled with intolerance ,

therefore to be intolerant towards it is actually promoting tolerance in the long term .

anyway , there is tolerance and there is naivety

Islam is not a monolith, which makes such silly generalisations redundant. Your mentality is akin to that marching around outside that church up north playing sectarian songs.

K-9 · 09-10-2012 07:56PM

MrD012 wrote: »

Muslim women who are so desperate for help they are turning to the BNP !!

Where did you read this?

SeanW · 09-10-2012 08:17PM

Memnoch wrote: »

So? What does that have to do with the freedom or not of people wanting to build a Mosque in Dublin?

It depends on who'se paying for this: the developer mentions "financing from around the world" I'm thinking Saudi Arabia.

If so, the problem is that the Saudi agenda is one of spreading Wahabbist Islam to all corners of the Earth. Wahabbism is the bat**** crazy branch of Islam whose people hate secular democracy, want Sharia law in all its barbarity including amputations (which Saudi textbooks teach UK Muslim schoolchildren how to do) death for homosexuals, death for apostates, death for blashphemers, hatred of non-Muslims (especially Jews). They are also very active in funding mosques and training Imams to preach their brutal, barbarian ideology. 15 of the 19 9/11 hijackers came from Saudi Arabia because that's the kind of Islam they practice out there.

If someone just wants to be a normal person that just happens to pray to the East 5 times a day, fine whatever, by all means let them have at it.

But I know enough about Wahabbism to know that I wish I had never heard of it and don't want in Europe, or Ireland. Not now, not ever.

Memnoch wrote: »

Nonsense. The same could be said of Christianity with their homophobic, anti-science, anti-women agenda.

See how generalisations work?

Which is why we need a secular society that has freedom of religion, but more importantly freedom from religion for people who don't want to know about it, but where we are not naive and recognise that there are those religions out there that are at best, totally insane. At worst, at war with secular civilisation. Scientology, Wahabbist & Salafist Islam etc.

Ellis Dee · 09-10-2012 08:23PM

The neck of some foreigners who come here with their new-fangled religions and expect us to adopt them. And they will do anything to attract attention.

Like that Patrick fellow, who lit his spring bonfire before the High King lit his. If there had been a Boards.ie in those days, lots of people would have been telling him to feck off back to wherever he came from and take his weird religion with him.:)

old hippy · 09-10-2012 09:03PM

MrD012 wrote: »

whats an EU citizen anyhow , most people I know dont consider themselves EU citizens . They consider themselves Irish and Irish alone.
EU ideology is the last thing on most Irish People's mind nowadays . Thank God.

Must you bring your religious mumbo jumbo into the argument?

Feckin extremists

old hippy · 09-10-2012 09:04PM

MrD012 wrote: »

but something needs to change if we want to protect Irish Society from the widespread and well documented damage we've seen in the UK .

What "damage"? Have you ever been in the UK?

Seriously???

Piece of Bread. · 09-10-2012 10:33PM

Pretty amazing how this Mosque seems perfectly fine and even money spent on building it. And yet the Dublin Orange hall has to basically remain hidden to some degree.

skD13 · 09-10-2012 10:54PM

The planning application went in yesterday;3325/12.

Searchable on DCC planning but related docs could take 2 weeks to follow.

Gerry Gannon owns the land, he might not be building it. But considering his architects (Conroy/Crowe/Kelly) designed it, it's possible he will be the main contractor.

The company submitting the application are called the "Dublin Welfare Society Limited".

Anyone who is interested can download information on this limited company from the CRO. Directors names etc. are all there as a matter of public record like any limited company.

Their mission statement (from their articles) seems laudable, even specifically mentions the empowerment of women. I haven't researched the directors.

I live in Clongriffin and I think this is good for the area despite some social concerns I have. I am chasing these up with various channels. Most of Clongriffin is empty space right now. This will finish a lot of it off including promised neighbourhood parks etc.

Most of the residents I know are broadly in favour with a few like MrD having none of it of course.

P.S. I'm basing a lot of my views on how the Clonskeagh centre seems to work and to my knowledge it works quite well. Ostensibly there are quite a few Islamist nutters in the UK but the law should be dealing with them. Preventing the building of mosques etc. isn't the answer IMO. And I think Islam is as batty as the next religion, but each to their own beliefs!

Memnoch · 10-10-2012 01:29AM

SeanW wrote: »

It depends on who'se paying for this: the developer mentions "financing from around the world" I'm thinking Saudi Arabia.

If so, the problem is that the Saudi agenda is one of spreading Wahabbist Islam to all corners of the Earth. Wahabbism is the bat**** crazy branch of Islam whose people hate secular democracy, want Sharia law in all its barbarity including amputations (which Saudi textbooks teach UK Muslim schoolchildren how to do) death for homosexuals, death for apostates, death for blashphemers, hatred of non-Muslims (especially Jews). They are also very active in funding mosques and training Imams to preach their brutal, barbarian ideology. 15 of the 19 9/11 hijackers came from Saudi Arabia because that's
the kind of Islam they practice out there.

If someone just wants to be a normal person that just happens to pray to the East 5 times a day, fine whatever, by all means let them have at it.

But I know enough about Wahabbism to know that I wish I had never heard of it and don't want in Europe, or Ireland. Not now, not ever.

Which is why we need a secular society that has freedom of religion, but more importantly freedom from religion for people who don't want to know about it, but where we are not naive and recognise that there are those religions out there that are at best, totally insane. At worst, at war with secular civilisation. Scientology, Wahabbist & Salafist Islam etc.

I don't see any of the big organised religions being different from one another. There are lots of religious people teaching their kids things that I or you might personally disagree with.

The bottom line is that Ireland is a secular nation (or at least should aim to be.) If someone wants to build a mosque/church/synagogue and pray/worship there, then that is their right.

As long as they don't break the laws of the land. And if they do, then they can be shut down. The rest of your post is pointless scaremongering. People can WANT sharia law all they like, it's not going to happen in Ireland, no matter how many mosques they open here, though I suspect there won't be the market for more than one or two.

If you are worried about oppression by religious nut jobs then you should advocate for the removal of tax exemption for all religious organisations (including the RC).

philologos · 10-10-2012 08:08AM

Memnoch wrote: »

Nonsense. The same could be said of Christianity with their homophobic, anti-science, anti-women agenda.

See how generalisations work?

Except Christianity doesn't inherently have any of those things?

Slurryface · 10-10-2012 08:36AM

lagente wrote: »

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Plan-to-build-84-million-Islamic-center-in-Dublin-to-host-40000-Muslims-in-the-city-172632091.html#ixzz28drMaw1L

I personally object to this and I hope we quickly quash the argument that this will lead to creation of new jobs and investment, because the long term ramifications of this are large. We would not be allowed to even spread other religion on the street in many of the countries where the people are from, let alone build a cultural center for it. It is because of this religion that 9 year old girls can be married, and had sex with in countries like Saudi Arabia, beheadings of gays, etc. Islam has branches that are still stuck in the Middle Ages and worse, I'm not even going to argue on that point, and I think we should take active steps against it being built. There has been enough suffering due to unchecked religion here already.

That has to be the singlemost objectionable and insulting post I have read on this forum.
It appears the OP has no grounds for his stance other than naked and unabashed sectarianism and xenophobia based upon nothing more than ignorance and the common western trait of feeling a sense of proprietry superiority over all other cultures.
Nothwitstanding the civil liberties ramifications of the stance proposed by the OP on this issue, if his/her objections were to be followed through then where would it end, would all muslims be required wear a little yellow cresent in public? Would we phrohibit them from practising professions? Ban them from holding public office or publicly funded employment?:mad:

MrD012 · 10-10-2012 08:53AM

old hippy wrote: »

What "damage"? Have you ever been in the UK?

Seriously???

I Just spent the last 47 posts explaining the damage with various Links to Articles about the Impact of Islam & Shariah in the UK and now you want me to do it all over again ? why not just read from the start of the thread and get up to date with whats going on.

I can spend all day posting links and factual information like I have done but eventually someone like yourself will make a new post saying whats wrong with muslims anyway , this is why I am really wasting my time posting on this forum , not one of you in favour of the Mosque have posted any documented evidence or reports that suggest Islam being good for society , on the other hand I have posted many links throughout this thread to prove the opposite.

Fratton Fred · 10-10-2012 09:31AM

MrD012 wrote: »

In mainstream society it does but not within Islamic communities. There are a number of reasons for this , the main reason being fear , fear of being outcast by their community.

please take some time to inform yourself on the issues . Here is a link to a report commissioned by one law for all , a uk organisation on shariah in britain.

http://www.onelawforall.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/New-Report-Sharia-Law-in-Britain_fixed.pdf

THat's a load of claptrap tbh.

There are vastly differing applications of Sharia Law and the only ones implemented in the UK are those to settle disputes. There is no Sharia Court in the UK that sentences anyone to imprisonment, stoning or flogging. Sharia Courts operate only when all parties are happy to sue tham and can only operate within the laws of the country they are in.

Quoting the extremes of Sharia Law are akin to claiming that under christian law people should be stoned to death for working on the sabbath or that taking slaves from neighbouring countries is acceptable.

sensationalist scaremongering bollocks.

Memnoch · 10-10-2012 09:36AM

philologos wrote: »

Except Christianity doesn't inherently have any of those things?

Neither does Islam.

irishconvert · 10-10-2012 10:27AM

MrD012 wrote: »

I Just spent the last 47 posts explaining the damage with various Links to Articles about the Impact of Islam & Shariah in the UK and now you want me to do it all over again ? why not just read from the start of the thread and get up to date with whats going on.

I can spend all day posting links and factual information like I have done but eventually someone like yourself will make a new post saying whats wrong with muslims anyway , this is why I am really wasting my time posting on this forum , not one of you in favour of the Mosque have posted any documented evidence or reports that suggest Islam being good for society , on the other hand I have posted many links throughout this thread to prove the opposite.

Why don't you answer old hippy. Have you even been to the UK?

MrD012 · 10-10-2012 10:32AM

The Guardian Newspaper , a reputable uk newspaper published this article.

What isn't wrong with shariah law http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2010/jul/05/sharia-law-religious-courts

wether you like the facts or not , we cannot afford to dismiss them as just a silly old rant against muslims , they speak for themselves and are well documented throughout the UK Media.

Fratton Fred · 10-10-2012 10:34AM

MrD012 wrote: »

The Guardian Newspaper , a reputable uk newspaper published this article.

What isn't wrong with shariah law http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2010/jul/05/sharia-law-religious-courts

wether you like the facts or not , we cannot afford to dismiss them as just a silly old rant against muslims , they speak for themselves and are well documented throughout the UK Media.

Same paper, signed by the person who wrote the article on Islam.

Should we campaign against Catholci Churches being built?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/sep/15/harsh-judgments-on-pope-religion

JustinDee · 10-10-2012 10:39AM

MrD012 wrote: »

The Guardian Newspaper , a reputable uk newspaper published this article.

What isn't wrong with shariah law http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2010/jul/05/sharia-law-religious-courts

wether you like the facts or not , we cannot afford to dismiss them as just a silly old rant against muslims , they speak for themselves and are well documented throughout the UK Media.

You are linking an article about the same two-year old report you already linked and are referring to the very same person who helped compile it on atheistic grounds.
Is she saying "Muslims out"? No. You appear to be saying this though, given your comments made already about immigration control requiring a person's religion or ethnicity as another criterion determining their entry to a country. This is where your concerns cross over to willful prejudice which as you know is just as much the antithesis of the law of the land as any Sharia court might be.

Ffs, in Ireland if two underage teenagers are caught having sex, the boy is charged with statutory rape regardless of age or consent, while the girl is . . . told off.

MrD012 · 10-10-2012 10:56AM

JustinDee wrote: »

given your comments made already about immigration control requiring a person's religion or ethnicity as another criterion determining their entry to a country.

No I never made any comments about this , your saying this , quote me where I said the above.

I said we need to look at the problems they face in the UK society and avoid them here .

I said we need to reform our Immigration system to take in less Immigrants regardless of ethnicity . We are heading for a 15.5% unemployment rate next year and a 5% drop in economic growth.

but now you have gotten me off the topic that was being discussed which is what you more than likely intented.

Fratton Fred · 10-10-2012 11:04AM

MrD012 wrote: »

No I never made any comments about this , your saying this , quote me where I said the above.

I said we need to look at the problems they face in the UK society and avoid them here .

I said we need to reform our Immigration system to take in less Immigrants regardless of ethnicity . We are heading for a 15.5% unemployment rate next year and a 5% drop in economic growth.

but now you have gotten me off the topic that was being discussed which is what you more than likely intented.

again. What problems?

MrD012 · 10-10-2012 11:10AM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

again. What problems?

again , read through my posts , take a look at the linked articles.

Bannasidhe · 10-10-2012 11:18AM

MrD012 wrote: »

again , read through my posts , take a look at the linked articles.

You posted the link to where you got those stats you were quoting yet?

Fratton Fred · 10-10-2012 11:58AM

MrD012 wrote: »

again , read through my posts , take a look at the linked articles.

I have.

You have linked articles in right wing sensationalist newspapers about a few isolated incidents. All of which are completely irrelevant when it comes to building a Mosque in Dublin.

I lived in an area with a significant Muslim population and (heaven forbid) it's own Mosque. I won't for a minute say the local muslims were saints, but there was absolutely nothing to suggest they should be considered some sort of threat to English society.

Opposing a mosque on the grounds that Islam as a religion should not be encouraged is nothing short of simple and ignorant bigotry.

JustinDee · 10-10-2012 12:24PM

MrD012 wrote: »

No I never made any comments about this , your saying this , quote me where I said the above

I said we need to look at the problems they face in the UK society and avoid them here

You said "but its not pre-conceived or even obscene, its factual" in reply to my saying "Of course there should be border-controls and immigration policies. Just not some obscene pre-conceived decision based on race, religion or ethnicity as I illiustrated earlier has already been evident in Ireland".
This followed limp tosh as you tried to pigeon-hole me as some "Eurocrat or something".

MrD012 wrote: »

I said we need to reform our Immigration system to take in less Immigrants regardless of ethnicity . We are heading for a 15.5% unemployment rate next year and a 5% drop in economic growth

Economics, regardless how simplistic or subjective a slice you try to convey, is not the subject being discussed in this thread, particularly the faux-fission on immigration v unemployment.

MrD012 wrote: »

but now you have gotten me off the topic that was being discussed which is what you more than likely intented.

You did that yourself already. Give the presumption a miss. Doesn't do you any favours.

old hippy · 10-10-2012 12:40PM

MrD012 wrote: »

No I never made any comments about this , your saying this , quote me where I said the above.

I said we need to look at the problems they face in the UK society and avoid them here .

I said we need to reform our Immigration system to take in less Immigrants regardless of ethnicity . We are heading for a 15.5% unemployment rate next year and a 5% drop in economic growth.

but now you have gotten me off the topic that was being discussed which is what you more than likely intented.

What problems do you encounter in the UK, specifically?

Did you ever live near a mosque and find all manner of shenanigans upsetting the applecart or what?

jmayo · 10-10-2012 04:46PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

The countries where these people are from? Oh dear, oh dear.

Old school friend of mine is Muslim - she's Cork born and bred. Can't say I have noticed many beheadings in Patrick St but I'll keep an eye out just in case.

Or two Muslim's I recently met in Spain. They're English. Not in a born in England way but in an actual Anglo-Saxon with a drop of Norman way. Has there been an outbreak of beheadings in England??? No mention of it on Sky News...
...

Converts to anything are always the worst.
They have a point to prove.

BTW where exactly is this mosque going to be ?
Just wondering becuase as sure as hell the US is going to be moving in next door keeping an eye on it.

old hippy · 10-10-2012 05:00PM

jmayo wrote: »

Just wondering becuase as sure as hell the US is going to be moving in next door keeping an eye on it.

How so? Why?

Benny_Cake · 10-10-2012 05:09PM

jmayo wrote: »

Bannasidhe wrote: »

The countries where these people are from? Oh dear, oh dear.

Old school friend of mine is Muslim - she's Cork born and bred. Can't say I have noticed many beheadings in Patrick St but I'll keep an eye out just in case.

Or two Muslim's I recently met in Spain. They're English. Not in a born in England way but in an actual Anglo-Saxon with a drop of Norman way. Has there been an outbreak of beheadings in England??? No mention of it on Sky News...
...

Converts to anything are always the worst.
They have a point to prove.

BTW where exactly is this mosque going to be ?
Just wondering becuase as sure as hell the US is going to be moving in next door keeping an eye on it.

The US government must have incredible resources at it's disposal if it can dispatch teams to keep an eye on every mosque.

MrD012 · 10-10-2012 05:28PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Opposing a mosque on the grounds that Islam as a religion should not be encouraged is nothing short of simple and ignorant bigotry.

but nobody is doing that , they are opposing the mosque after studying the UK society model and realising its not for them .

can the pro mosque side show me one report that details the benefits of Islam to western society ?

because if you cant do the above well then its just all hot air with no substance from your arguments.

Plan to build $84 million Super Mosque in Dublin Ireland.

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