Dublin Marathon 2012 - Mentored Novices Thread

Dilbert75 · 08-10-2012 08:52PM

Overtake? Jeez NCMC - you want to overtake coming up to the finish? Holy crap - I need to get some of the jelly beans you're on...:P:P

menoscemo · 08-10-2012 09:02PM

Just out of curiosity I looked at the videos of the other pace groups. 4 and 4:15 are definitely the most crowed. Even 3:30, 3:45 and 4:30 are not so bad.

digger2d2 · 08-10-2012 09:25PM

It's easy enough to get yourselves on the periphary of a pacing group and avoid the bit of crowding if you really don't like it, although there's safety in numbers

As raycun says, you can run behind or in front of the pace group you are targetting, just don't start too far in front as it can be psychologically tough to have faster people running by you for mile after mile.

A few points for the first timers, do not get carried away with the buzz, do not let the adrenaline rule. Run your race based on your training and your predicted marathon pace. Savour the atmosphere, soak up the encouragement and at times when you are struggling just smile your way through it if you can. You may finish and swear you'll never run another one but 20 minutes later you will be back in love with running, your achievement will engulf you and by the following day you will be planning your next marathon - Good luck!

FiiFii · 08-10-2012 09:41PM

Pageant Messiah wrote: »

Done it for you there.

Many thanks

Dilbert75 · 08-10-2012 09:44PM

This prompts me to ask the question that everyone is going to be asking themselves: what should be my target time?

Relevant PB's this year:
- 10m: 1:17:15
- 1/2: 1:43

Going on the 2x 1/2 +10% would lead me to a time for the full of 3:46.6, so not quite fast enough for 3:45 but a good way ahead of the 3:54 (9 min mile) I was originally aiming for. But I still don't have the confidence that I can sustain that pace and am a bit anxious about starting out at that pace from the start.

Maybe I'll follow the rule of 10's - first 10m slightly slower than PMP, 2nd 10m at PMP and last 10k as fast as I can manage - that's not really my style though, I'd far rather start out and stay at a steady pace all the way through.

Anyone else still undecided?

RunningKing · 08-10-2012 09:49PM

Dilbert75 wrote: »

This prompts me to ask the question that everyone is going to be asking themselves: what should be my target time?

Relevant PB's this year:
- 10m: 1:19
- 1/2: 1:43

Going on the 2x 1/2 +10% would lead me to a time for the full of 3:46.6, so not quite fast enough for 3:45 but a good way ahead of the 3:54 (9 min mile) I was originally aiming for. But I still don't have the confidence that I can sustain that pace and am a bit anxious about starting out at that pace from the start.

Maybe I'll follow the rule of 10's - first 10m slightly slower than PMP, 2nd 10m at PMP and last 10k as fast as I can manage - that's not really my style though, I'd far rather start out and stay at a steady pace all the way through.

Anyone else still undecided?

3x your 10m time is also an indication for you and can be more accurate than th 2x1/2+10%, especially for 1st time marathoners. Maybe 3:54 isn't so far off?

Dilbert75 · 08-10-2012 09:55PM

Actually I just checked my 10m time - it was 1:17:15, so that'd give me 3:52. There's such a big difference between 3:46 and 3:52 that I'd be more comfortable with that thought. So maybe I'll plan to run my own pace between the 3:45 & 4:00 pace groups and see how that goes.

lrak · 08-10-2012 10:28PM

sassyj wrote: »

My running belt pouch only holds 2 gels, any ideas how to carry extras?

How is your sewing/ friends sewing? Not being smart but if you aren't planning on running in shorts with pockets or gel loop holder thingies, buy some elastic, cut it down to size and sew some loops either onto your pouch or shorts, make sure they are correct size to hold them.

Stargazer7 · 08-10-2012 11:31PM

Hi all,

1st timer here (as you will gather from the stupidity of my questions...) but I ran my 20miler yesterday and it took me around 3hrs 30 which I was a bit disappointed with. I had been running 10km in just under 50mins pretty consistently (I ran the Kildare half marathon in 1 hr 52 mins) and was keeping a similar pace yesterday up until the 20km mark but then I guess I must've slowed considerably (though I wasn't feeling the real pain until the last 5km.

One thing however I completed neglected up to now was gels - I have been drinking about a litre of water during the longer runs as that's all I could carry handily. Since I have 3 weeks to go I would like to experiment with gels a bit on the longer weekend runs to see if it could up my performance. In your guys opinion will it help my DCM time at all or will it just make the whole experience a bit more comfortable (which I wouldn't mind either!)

Thanks!

Murph_D · 09-10-2012 12:02AM

menoscemo wrote: »

Haha are you serious? If so it's amazing how chinese whispers go around. I was one of the 4hr pacers last year and we had a fair crowd all the way around but there was no queueing to be done at the finish

You can still check out the video from last years race to get an Idea:

Ha ha! Looks like the population of a large provincial town behind the 4:00 pacer. (I'm talking about the earlier stages of the race).

Hmm, following a pacer might be less straightforward than it sounds.

rasher_m · 09-10-2012 12:16AM

murphd77 wrote: »

Ha ha! Looks like the population of a large provincial town behind the 4:00 pacer. (I'm talking about the earlier stages of the race).

Hmm, following a pacer might be less straightforward than it sounds.

Yeah 4 hrs seems to be fairly popular by the looks of things. Nearly every first timer I meet wants to break 4 hrs. Its like the respected time or something.

dazza21ie · 09-10-2012 06:40AM

Stargazer7 wrote: »

Hi all,

1st timer here (as you will gather from the stupidity of my questions...) but I ran my 20miler yesterday and it took me around 3hrs 30 which I was a bit disappointed with. I had been running 10km in just under 50mins pretty consistently (I ran the Kildare half marathon in 1 hr 52 mins) and was keeping a similar pace yesterday up until the 20km mark but then I guess I must've slowed considerably (though I wasn't feeling the real pain until the last 5km.

One thing however I completed neglected up to now was gels - I have been drinking about a litre of water during the longer runs as that's all I could carry handily. Since I have 3 weeks to go I would like to experiment with gels a bit on the longer weekend runs to see if it could up my performance. In your guys opinion will it help my DCM time at all or will it just make the whole experience a bit more comfortable (which I wouldn't mind either!)

Thanks!

The main thing is to find a gel that suits you and your stomach. You wouldn't want to be taking one on the day itself if there was a chance it would make you sick.

For me gels do make things a bit more comfortable especially near the end of a long run. I took two on my 19 mile run two weeks ago and finished that run strongly. On Saturday I decided (for some reason still unknown!) not to take any and I really felt it in energy levels near the end of the run. A big part of this all is mental strength too so if your mind thinks a gel makes things easier then it probably will.

There are lots of different gels out there so give a couple a go over the next few weeks and hopefully one will work for you.

Trampas · 09-10-2012 08:01AM

1 word from my run before light this morning "Baltic"

Need to dig out the gloves. Had the base layer and hat now but hands were like ice blocks

ncmc · 09-10-2012 08:22AM

Dilbert75 wrote: »

Overtake? Jeez NCMC - you want to overtake coming up to the finish? Holy crap - I need to get some of the jelly beans you're on...:P:P

Haha, yes I intend to make a killing on the day shilling my magic beans

One good run at the weekend, and I suddenly have visions of myself seperating from the pack and sprinting, gazelle like, towards the finish (theme from Chariots of Fire ringing in my ears of course!)

I guess I thought it would be more like other races I've done, where you could pass people if necessary, I have visions now of being stuck at the back of the pack and not being able to move. Making me feel claustrophobic even thinking of it!

Don't mind me, just a bit of early taper madness!

Donal112 · 09-10-2012 08:38AM

RayCun wrote: »

Yeah, the angle of the video makes it looks worse than it feels when you're running. That said, I did feel crowded running in the 4 hour pace group two years ago, and in places last year with the 3.30 guys. If you trust yourself, you can drop back a bit behind the pacers to keep them in sight but have more space, or run just in front of them...

I ran with the 4 hour pacers last year and honestly the crowds freaked me a little bit. Felt I was jockeying for space on a number of occasions, especially in the Park where it got quite narrow at one point. And it didn't really thin out for 10 miles or so. I have family in Templeogue (about 15 miles in) and they said the roads were lovely and clear for 10 minutes before the four hour group arrived, just small pockets of runners, and then this big mass of runners all arrived together!! That being said, there is definitely safety in numbers and you don't need to worry about your pacing, etc, just follow the crowds!! Sadly I lost the four hour guys at about mile 17

and came home in 4:12.

Also, I would strongly suggest carrying a small water bottle with you at the start so you can skip the first water station, especially if running with a pace group. The first water station was carnage last year, was literally like a scrum to try and get a drink from the middle of the hour group.

This year my plan is to start just in front of the pacers, running 8.50 - 9 min miles and HOPEFULLY keep them just a bit behind me all the way!!

menoscemo · 09-10-2012 09:09AM

Stargazer7 wrote: »

Hi all,

1st timer here (as you will gather from the stupidity of my questions...) but I ran my 20miler yesterday and it took me around 3hrs 30 which I was a bit disappointed with. I had been running 10km in just under 50mins pretty consistently (I ran the Kildare half marathon in 1 hr 52 mins) and was keeping a similar pace yesterday up until the 20km mark but then I guess I must've slowed considerably (though I wasn't feeling the real pain until the last 5km.

One thing however I completed neglected up to now was gels - I have been drinking about a litre of water during the longer runs as that's all I could carry handily. Since I have 3 weeks to go I would like to experiment with gels a bit on the longer weekend runs to see if it could up my performance. In your guys opinion will it help my DCM time at all or will it just make the whole experience a bit more comfortable (which I wouldn't mind either!)

Thanks!

Your problem yesterday is that you tried to run 20 miles at your Half marathon Pace. Obviously nobody is going to be able to run more than 13.1 miles at their Half marathon pace. If they do their body will force them to slow down significantly as happened to you... The idea is that when you do longer runs you start off a bit slower and try to maintain the slower pace. (sorry if I am missing something obvious).

rom · 09-10-2012 09:15AM

Donal112 wrote: »

This year my plan is to start just in front of the pacers, running 8.50 - 9 min miles and HOPEFULLY keep them just a bit behind me all the way!!

You either run with or don't use them. Running in front of them does not work. I adopted the same thing to you in a race because someone one in a pacing group sharted. I nearly got sick. Anyways running in front will add more stress to you. This will result in you using more energy as you won't relax and get into a correct stride which will probably end up with them passing you. Personally I don't want to run with pacers too but trying to keep them behind me is something I am never going to try but run my own race.

Trampas · 09-10-2012 09:21AM

Donal112 wrote: »

I ran with the 4 hour pacers last year and honestly the crowds freaked me a little bit. Felt I was jockeying for space on a number of occasions, especially in the Park where it got quite narrow at one point. And it didn't really thin out for 10 miles or so. I have family in Templeogue (about 15 miles in) and they said the roads were lovely and clear for 10 minutes before the four hour group arrived, just small pockets of runners, and then this big mass of runners all arrived together!! That being said, there is definitely safety in numbers and you don't need to worry about your pacing, etc, just follow the crowds!! Sadly I lost the four hour guys at about mile 17 and came home in 4:12.

Also, I would strongly suggest carrying a small water bottle with you at the start so you can skip the first water station, especially if running with a pace group. The first water station was carnage last year, was literally like a scrum to try and get a drink from the middle of the hour group.

This year my plan is to start just in front of the pacers, running 8.50 - 9 min miles and HOPEFULLY keep them just a bit behind me all the way!!

This is the reason why I was thinking about avoiding the pacers as I will be hoping to break 4 hours. To crowded around them

ncmc · 09-10-2012 09:25AM

rom wrote: »

You either run with or don't use them. Running in front of them does not work. I adopted the same thing to you in a race because someone one in a pacing group sharted. I nearly got sick. Anyways running in front will add more stress to you. This will result in you using more energy as you won't relax and get into a correct stride which will probably end up with them passing you. Personally I don't want to run with pacers too but trying to keep them behind me is something I am never going to try but run my own race.

:eek::eek::eek:

That’s an interesting point actually, I think it could be stressful looking at your watch the whole time, checking over your shoulder to see were the pacers are etc and a lot of people will have the same idea, so it probably won’t be much less crowded. I think I will stick with the four hour pacers, as someone said, safety in numbers and all that and also want to just check my brain at the start line and concentrate on putting one foot in front of the other and not be worrying about pace.

snowman224 · 09-10-2012 09:28AM

ok, so that's "Spare pair of shorts" being added to my list of things for race day.

I genuinely never considered the need for a change of clothes mid run. :eek:

Donal112 · 09-10-2012 09:45AM

rom wrote: »

You either run with or don't use them. Running in front of them does not work. I adopted the same thing to you in a race because someone one in a pacing group sharted. I nearly got sick. Anyways running in front will add more stress to you. This will result in you using more energy as you won't relax and get into a correct stride which will probably end up with them passing you. Personally I don't want to run with pacers too but trying to keep them behind me is something I am never going to try but run my own race.

Fair point Rom - what I actually meant is that I am going to just run my own race and not use the pacers. My plan is to run 8:50ish miles and hopefully finish about 3hrs55. Believe me I won't be looking over my shoulder. The first I will know about the pacers will be if I see one of their balloons running by me at some stage...... if I can maintain my race then they won't, but if I can't then they will!

Pacing Mule · 09-10-2012 09:58AM

rasher_m wrote: »

Yeah 4 hrs seems to be fairly popular by the looks of things. Nearly every first timer I meet wants to break 4 hrs. Its like the respected time or something.

People need to start respecting the 5 hour stragglers - we've plenty of room by the looks of things

Alanm · 09-10-2012 10:19AM

Dilbert75 wrote: »

This prompts me to ask the question that everyone is going to be asking themselves: what should be my target time?

Anyone else still undecided?

I'm in exactly the same position, have 'decided' my strategy about 5 times since running Athlone on Sunday. From reverting to my original 'would be great to finish in under 4 hours' to wondering if I can stick with the 3:30 guys and pretty much everything in between. If this is the start of Taper Madness, it's going to be a long 3 weeks!

kit3 · 09-10-2012 10:42AM

Hi, Looking for a bit of LSR advice. Was following the HH intermediate plan and had reached the 20 mile LSR mark two weeks ago. A niggle I had in my ankle got worse so didn't do the 12 mile I had planned for the week after. Went to physio last Tuesday. While he wasn't exactly sure what was causing the problem he did need to re-align my hips and put something back in place in my upper back (result of a fall three weeks previously I think). He gave me the go ahead to run easy with the proviso that I come back if the niggle was still there. Since then (1 week) I have done a 3 mile, two 5 miles and a 6 mile - wanting to ease in gently to make sure I did not aggravate it. I had planned on doing a second 20 mile last weekend but missed that. I plan to do 10/12 tomorrow and then a longer run at the weekend. I suppose my question is really would it be mad to do 20 on Friday/Saturday (assuming the ankle is ok) ? Is there anything to be gained apart from the psychological effect or is it detrimental to do it this close to the marathon. Should I do 15/18 ? I really have no idea what to do and would really appreciate the advice please. Thanks. C

Should have added - aiming for 4.30 having done 4.59 last year !

rasher_m · 09-10-2012 10:48AM

Pageant Messiah wrote: »

People need to start respecting the 5 hour stragglers - we've plenty of room by the looks of things

Lucky I'm not going for 4 hrs either buddy:rolleyes:

npresto · 09-10-2012 11:41AM

On the Dublin Marathon facebook page some dude is planning a double Dublin marathon on the 29th.
He will start at 4am carrying supplies, finish at 8:30am, quick massage, refuel then away on the official marathon.

He says he ran the full route last week in 4:10 and will run a marathon and a half next weekend and a few half marathons between now and 29th!!

RayCun · 09-10-2012 11:45AM

This guy is running Dublin as one of 6 marathons on 6 continents in a month

RunningKing · 09-10-2012 11:47AM

RayCun wrote: »

This guy is running Dublin as one of 6 marathons on 6 continents in a month

yeah, heard it on MT.

menoscemo · 09-10-2012 12:21PM

npresto wrote: »

On the Dublin Marathon facebook page some dude is planning a double Dublin marathon on the 29th.
He will start at 4am carrying supplies, finish at 8:30am, quick massage, refuel then away on the official marathon.

He says he ran the full route last week in 4:10 and will run a marathon and a half next weekend and a few half marathons between now and 29th!!

Several of the lads on this forum ran 2 marathons in 1 day a few months back.

2 of the pacers for DCM ran over 140miles in 1 day last month at the world 24hr championships. That's almost 5.5 marathons :eek:

zefer · 09-10-2012 05:28PM

First run after Athlone 3/4 done, 5m. Legs very stiff and sore during it. Think a Epsom salt bath is required!!

Dublin Marathon 2012 - Mentored Novices Thread

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