If Obama wins how will the extremists react?

Amerika · 03-10-2012 04:02PM

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

Why would he need to do that? It's people like these that are going to be right-wing Tea Party supporters. Unless you think those comments indicate that they are liberals and/or Democrats?

Perhaps because I'm a member of the Tea Party and we're primarily focused on fiscal matters.

Amerika · 03-10-2012 04:36PM

Memnoch wrote: »

Also, I find you asking for solid evidence utterly laughable considering the raging hypocrisy and contemptible double standards you so casually apply.

Just returning the favor of the standards that are oft applied to my responses.

Memnoch · 03-10-2012 04:38PM

The reason I and I think most others who think the same, believe that the GOP base is extremist is because of who they chose to represent them:

Akin, Bachman, Perry, Palin, Cain, Rumsfeld. (Romney doesn't seem to be a social /religious extremist atleast.)

And because of who their most prominent voices in the media are:

Hannity, Coulter, Beck, Limbaugh...

And because of things that they SAY such as quoted in my post above.

It has nothing to do with the Irish media or anyone else.

The GOP seems to be throwing its support back behind Akin now. Therefore, they endorse/turn a blind eye to his extremism.

Amerika · 03-10-2012 04:44PM

Memnoch wrote: »

The reason I and I think most others who think the same, believe that the GOP base is extremist is because of who they chose to represent them:

Akin, Bachman, Perry, Palin, Cain, Rumsfeld. (Romney doesn't seem to be a social /religious extremist atleast.)

And because of who their most prominent voices in the media are:

Hannity, Coulter, Beck, Limbaugh...

And because of things that they SAY such as quoted in my post above.

It has nothing to do with the Irish media or anyone else.

The GOP seems to be throwing its support back behind Akin now. Therefore, they endorse/turn a blind eye to his extremism.

I'll copy this post once again, in hopes it will educate some not really familar with the Tea Party.

You’re right that I am not a grassroots member of the Tea Party. I belong to the largest segment of the Tea Party that does not get actively involved in politics for the most part (although I have gotten involved with presidential elections in the past, and do go to presidential and vice presidential candidate speeches when they are local. Sarah Palin was great in person by the way ) The segment of the Tea Party I belong to usually goes down the list of our core beliefs and votes for the candidate whose actions, not words, matches the majority of them (a candidate that has a chance of winning that is)… whether that be Republican or Democrat (but mostly Republican).

Most of us voted for Romney in the primaries becasue enough of his goals match our ideals/goals, and he has the best chance to win.

And yes, a lot of us like Limbaugh.

Rumsfeld, where did you get that?

You seem to be confusing Rebublicans with the Tea Party in regards to Akin.

joseph brand · 03-10-2012 05:01PM

jank wrote: »

+1 million to this, as a resident of Australia and NZ for the past 4 years as well as getting to know plenty of Americans from the more conservative states I can state than Irish people in general listen to RTE or watch some youtube clips and think that is the reality of the US. Most of the guys on here who are for ever portraying the "evils" of the GOP or the tea party have never even lived there for any length of time, yet interestingly they spend an awful lot of time siding with one side over the other.

Add to the fact that the media in Ireland is very biased towards to the left and that Ireland has an entitlement culture that would put some Greeks to shame.

I'm sorry, but Michele Bachmann and Sara Palin's blissfully ignorant insanity alone is a massive turn-off, to voters outside the US who didn't grow up always voting red or blue. (you know the mentally lazy who vote FF or FG because their folks always do/did)

Plus, the GOP seem to be the religious party who want to clamp down on women's rights and demonise the LGBT community, (Santorum comes to mind). Regressive conservatism, bigotry, racism and discrimination are not very attractive traits. It's no wonder so many media outlets don't want to be seen siding with the GOP or the Tea Party. May as well promote the Taliban.

Oh yeah, remember Gingrich spluttering on about morals. That fat mess left his dying wife for another woman. Wouldn't pay child support, which resulted in his wife and daughter going without essentials such as food and electricity. Isn't he on his third wife now?

southsiderosie · 03-10-2012 06:42PM

MOD NOTE:

Let me remind posters of the first line in our charter:

This is a Politics forum, not Liveline

Please keep things civil and on-topic, thanks.

Fr Tod Umptious · 04-10-2012 12:18AM

joseph brand wrote: »

I'm sorry, but Michele Bachmann and Sara Palin's blissfully ignorant insanity alone is a massive turn-off, to voters outside the US who didn't grow up always voting red or blue. (you know the mentally lazy who vote FF or FG because their folks always do/did)

Plus, the GOP seem to be the religious party who want to clamp down on women's rights and demonise the LGBT community, (Santorum comes to mind). Regressive conservatism, bigotry, racism and discrimination are not very attractive traits. It's no wonder so many media outlets don't want to be seen siding with the GOP or the Tea Party. May as well promote the Taliban.

Oh yeah, remember Gingrich spluttering on about morals. That fat mess left his dying wife for another woman. Wouldn't pay child support, which resulted in his wife and daughter going without essentials such as food and electricity. Isn't he on his third wife now?

Memnoch wrote: »

The reason I and I think most others who think the same, believe that the GOP base is extremist is because of who they chose to represent them:

Akin, Bachman, Perry, Palin, Cain, Rumsfeld. (Romney doesn't seem to be a social /religious extremist atleast.) .

Which one of the highlighted names was selected to run for president this year ?

The above post is exactly what I and others are on about.
The GOP have selected a moderate candidate to run for president, not one from the fringes like the poster has mentioned above.

But mention the GOP here and there is a barrage of posts about the fringes of the party as if they were the mainstream.

jimmyjon · 04-10-2012 01:12AM

The reason we talk about the fringes of the GOP is that they are the only voices we ever hear. Limbaugh, Hannity, Palin etc are the current standard-bearers of the party, and any deviation from their rigid principles is impossible if you're a Republican politician.

Only an extremist party gets its members to sign a pledge not to raise taxes by a single cent before they even get elected and can fully assess the situation. And in an era of massive debt!

They're more concerned with ideology than pragmatic policies. That's what happens when a party falls out of step with the views of the public at large, centrist voters desert it and any reasonable voices get shouted down.

The GOP need a major overhaul a la Labour under Blair or the Tories under Cameron.

jank · 04-10-2012 08:36AM

Memnoch wrote: »

Jank - Did you see the GOP line-up for presidential candidates? Bachman, Gingrich, Santorum, Perry, Cain and co. A who's who of the clueless, extremists and religious fanatics. I mean if you really want me to I could go through the list one by one and highlight these guys, but you should educate yourself a little about them. This was the line up the GOP put up to represent the USA.

But I think what I'm about to post next is even more telling. Here's the latest 'The National,' poll showing a tie between Obama and Romney.

http://nationaljournal.com/daily/obama-romney-tied-among-likely-voters-20121002

Scroll down to the comments... here are the first few...

That's six out of the top 7 posts on that site. Whether you like it or not, these quotes and these people are very much representative of the tea party base.

What percentage of republicans believe Obama is foreign born? Was it 55%? That alone should tell you everything you need to know about the rationality of these people.

I am sorry but if you are using anonymous comments posted on the web to prove...whatever it is you want to prove then its a losing arguement.
It is very easy to live in the internet bubble and not actually interact with people.

If I was 18 again I may be in full agreement with you. Now though 13 years later, after lving in the US for a period of time, after getting to know many people from the US from the south, east and west coast and by living away from home for many years, I have a more balanced approach to these things. Anonymous comments on the web prove nothing.

jank · 04-10-2012 08:40AM

joseph brand wrote: »

I'm sorry, but Michele Bachmann and Sara Palin's blissfully ignorant insanity alone is a massive turn-off, to voters outside the US who didn't grow up always voting red or blue. (you know the mentally lazy who vote FF or FG because their folks always do/did)

Plus, the GOP seem to be the religious party who want to clamp down on women's rights and demonise the LGBT community, (Santorum comes to mind). Regressive conservatism, bigotry, racism and discrimination are not very attractive traits. It's no wonder so many media outlets don't want to be seen siding with the GOP or the Tea Party. May as well promote the Taliban.

Oh yeah, remember Gingrich spluttering on about morals. That fat mess left his dying wife for another woman. Wouldn't pay child support, which resulted in his wife and daughter going without essentials such as food and electricity. Isn't he on his third wife now?

Ah here we go with the Taliban again. :rolleyes:

Fr Tod Umptious · 04-10-2012 04:07PM

[QUOTE=jimmyjon;81079309]The reason we talk about the fringes of the GOP is that they are the only voices we ever hear. Limbaugh, Hannity, Palin etc are the current standard-bearers of the party, and any deviation from their rigid principles is impossible if you're a Republican politician.

Only an extremist party gets its members to sign a pledge not to raise taxes by a single cent before they even get elected and can fully assess the situation. And in an era of massive debt!

They're more concerned with ideology than pragmatic policies. That's what happens when a party falls out of step with the views of the public at large, centrist voters desert it and any reasonable voices get shouted down.

The GOP need a major overhaul a la Labour under Blair or the Tories under Cameron.[/QUOTE]

Again I'll have to go back to the point that has been made that people in Ireland seem look at US politics from one angle and then stick to that opinion.

As I said I had views that the GOP were full of nut cases until i actually went to America and found the normal everyday people that I meet and worked with were people who would vote for a GOP candidate.

The piece in bold about centrists deserting the party just shows how unwilling some are to look at the GOP from a wider angle.

If centrists had deserted then why is Romney the candidate and why are the Obama camp concerned about the debate last night.

Memnoch · 04-10-2012 06:29PM

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Which one of the highlighted names was selected to run for president this year ?

The above post is exactly what I and others are on about.
The GOP have selected a moderate candidate to run for president, not one from the fringes like the poster has mentioned above.

But mention the GOP here and there is a barrage of posts about the fringes of the party as if they were the mainstream.

What are you talking about?

Are you saying that the people who participated in the nomination process all represented fringes of the party?

Remember how moderate McCain was? What was the word that Coulter used to describe him? Was it 'insect,' or 'cockroach,' I can't remember. And wasn't he about to get taken down in the republican primary until he did a Romney style about turn on all his moderate positions to clear the tea party gauntlet? Didn't he need Sarah Palin's support to do so?

I don't know how moderate or not the GOP establishment is, but they are very much hostage to the extreme wing of their party, and that suggests that this 'fringe' constitutes more than a significant part of their base.

Who's the most listened to radio talk show host to the tune of 20 million listeners, an almost exclusively conservative audience? That's right... Rush Limbaugh.

What percentage of Conservatives believe Obama is a Muslim? What percentage still believe he was not born in the USA? (I think we can kindly classify this same percent as conspiracy theorists.)

Denerick · 04-10-2012 09:54PM

jank wrote: »

Ah here we go with the Taliban again. :rolleyes:

Don't do subtlety, do you?

jank · 05-10-2012 06:51AM

Denerick wrote: »

Don't do subtlety, do you?

Better than bleeding heart scare tactics

Denerick · 06-10-2012 12:50AM

jank wrote: »

Better than bleeding heart scare tactics

I seem to vaguely recall a question about whether I'd prefer to live in Bushes America or the Talibans Afghanistan... Part of a worrying trend I fear.

jank · 06-10-2012 04:28AM

Have you actually ever lived in the US or in fact any other country for a period of time? The fact that you are comparing the two shows how biased and blinkered you are. People like you would have let Hitler or Bin Laden into your living room for a chat and a cup of tea while their henchmen would be pillaging your house while also raping your family.

Denerick · 06-10-2012 06:03PM

jank wrote: »

Have you actually ever lived in the US or in fact any other country for a period of time? The fact that you are comparing the two shows how biased and blinkered you are. People like you would have let Hitler or Bin Laden into your living room for a chat and a cup of tea while their henchmen would be pillaging your house while also raping your family.

Shades of grey? Subtlety? Never mind.

jank · 06-10-2012 06:33PM

Denerick wrote: »

Shades of grey? Subtlety? Never mind.

Guess not then, your world view is based upon the experience and environment of about 6 million people on this small island. There may be a chance your wrong...

poeticseraphim · 07-10-2012 03:39AM

jank wrote: »

There is the problem right there. Many of those that have the get up and go attitude leave the country for better opportunities elsewhere, thus leaving behind a sort of malaise and a sense of entitlement that everything is the governments fault. It is only after you live in other countries that you actually get what a bunch self entitled, cynical and fatalistic lot many Irish people are. Just tune into your average frontline show or liveline.

Do you have some stats to back this up? Was listening to Pat Kenny on the radio the other day and the US american welfare system sounded very strict with very little give to the extent we would have here. Didnt the ERSI come out say say that "only" 5% of the population of Ireland are better off on the dole than a job? :rolleyes:

I would like to know how you come to that conclusion?

Healthcare not really, welfare definitely NOT!

We have a form of medicare in Australia. All residents are entitled to it, means you get access to GP's, access to public hospitals more or less for free but there may be small charges here and there. However everyone has to pay for it in terms of taxes. There is a 1% medicare levy on income tax, this is higher for those on high incomes. There is of course private health insurance which is well worth it as you get great access to some world class hospitals and specialists. The health care system works well here but it has to be paid for. Private health insurance will cost you the bones of a few grand.

Welfare? LOL give me a break. First of all if you have assets that total over a certain sum you get nothing. Welfare isn't that generous anyway compared to the cost of living in Australia.

We get Zilch in terms of free healthcare...it costs me 70 euro for a 15 min GP visit..and hundreds sometimes if i want to see a consultant. And i am paying high taxes. I am paying on par with taxation levels in Germany..we just get far less for what we pay.

And similarly if you have assets over a certain sum you get nothing and if you have been self employed yet still paid tax for years you get nothing ...nada.

Private health insurance is a must here in Ireland. And we have to pay it is unheard of for an employer to pay. It runs into the thousands.

Again welfare is nothing compard to the costs of living.

If you have lived in Ireland and experienced this type of person you speak of it is not representitive of me or my family of hard working people.

And your attitude is quite frankly just as enfuriating.

I hav never been on Welfare ...hopefully i will never have to be...i get no form of benefit from this Govt..i get virtually nothing in return for my taxes.

jank · 07-10-2012 03:59PM

poeticseraphim wrote: »

We get Zilch in terms of free healthcare...it costs me 70 euro for a 15 min GP visit..and hundreds sometimes if i want to see a consultant. And i am paying high taxes. I am paying on par with taxation levels in Germany..we just get far less for what we pay.

And similarly if you have assets over a certain sum you get nothing and if you have been self employed yet still paid tax for years you get nothing ...nada.

I totally agree, so why are you paying tax again in Ireland?? *penny drops*

poeticseraphim wrote: »

Private health insurance is a must here in Ireland. And we have to pay it is unheard of for an employer to pay. It runs into the thousands.

Again welfare is nothing compared to the costs of living.

Yet its the highest in the EU after Luxemberg....
How about cutting welfare in exchange for cutting taxes?

poeticseraphim wrote: »

If you have lived in Ireland and experienced this type of person you speak of it is not representitive of me or my family of hard working people.

And your attitude is quite frankly just as enfuriating.

I hav never been on Welfare ...hopefully i will never have to be...i get no form of benefit from this Govt..i get virtually nothing in return for my taxes.

Again, why are you paying so much tax then? Why do Irish people stand for it? Because there is a very very large section of Irish people that think that they are entitled to state services no matter how rich or poor they are. There is an undercurrent to society that one must get as much as they can from the state and screw anyone else. Where else can one write a letter to the local TD to 'ask' for a medical card. Again one final time, why do you pay so much tax?

Instead of fighting it out in the next Irish budget over a few euros here and there lost in child benefit or dole, how about we stand up and ask for tax reductions on income and in turn cut government spending?

Croke park is set in stone, why is that? Because the left are scared ****less of doing anything about it. Its a total joke. I think a bit of Mitt Romney in Ireland would be a good thing for a few years. Can you imagine the look at the beard's faces if he walked into the negotiating room? LOL. Unions are powerful only because the state lets them be. The state is being held hostage by them.

Denerick · 07-10-2012 04:11PM

jank wrote: »

Guess not then, your world view is based upon the experience and environment of about 6 million people on this small island. There may be a chance your wrong...

You seem to be having a debate with what you think I believe, not what I actually believe.

jank · 08-10-2012 08:54AM

Denerick wrote: »

You seem to be having a debate with what you think I believe, not what I actually believe.

Well you believe that the tea party are the exact same as the Taliban and words actually kill people.

Denerick · 08-10-2012 06:39PM

jank wrote: »

Well you believe that the tea party are the exact same as the Taliban and words actually kill people.

You're hardly a biblical literalist by any chance?

unimpressed · 08-10-2012 06:56PM

"Power corrupts absolute power corrupts absolutly"
Who has the power in a democracy that is bought and paid for before you even get a chance to vote??
Your all arguing about the wrong issue the public leaders are puppets that do what their told by whoever has the money
Thats the real world truth.

If Obama wins how will the extremists react?

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