If Obama wins how will the extremists react?

Toshchiy Imperatritsy Vselennoy

How do you think the right will react?

I mean it seems the GOP has isolated itself away from all but the most extreme.

The next day where is the narrative on the right if Obama wins?

What is the reaction?

How would the GOP attempt to rebuild and recover it's reputation from the way it has campaigned?

Carcharodon

Toshchiy Imperatritsy Vselennoy wrote: »

How do you think the right will react?

I mean it seems the GOP has isolated itself away from all but the most extreme.

The next day where is the narrative on the right if Obama wins?

What is the reaction?

How would the GOP attempt to rebuild and recover it's reputation from the way it has campaigned?

I predict that they wont go quietly, they will go down kicking and screaming. While most will eventually accept the democracy of things, I have a feeling that a large amount will not be able to accept it like Democrats had to do after Bush scammed his way into office.
It will be more of the same from the far right, lie lie lie, block anything Obama proposes, accuse him of ridiculous things, avoid doing anything to put the country first and start another 4 year campaign of being insane haters that dont believe in facts.

Memnoch

The problem is that liberal voters and therefore politicians are more reasonable by default. The kind of tactics the GOP employ, I don't think democrats could go to those extremes.

They just wouldn't be able to be so completely hypocritical and dishonest about every single thing and obstruct merely for the sake of obstructing. In this sense I think America is doomed no matter what.

If the GOP win their insane policies will continue the downward and regressive spiral that America has been in for the last 30-40 years with continuing concentration of wealth in an ever narrowing upper spectrum, the ideal of the American dream fading further as social mobility evaporates and democracy being eroded.

If the GOP lose, they will simply paralyse the country by obstructing anything and everything Obama tries to do, regardless of the actual merits involved. The only solution is a completely democrat controlled house/senate/presidency, but that is unlikely.

Manach

Gosh - when I saw the title extremist I naturally though of the PC leftist wackos - thinking of the Occupy everything movement.

Overheal

The country will not react any worse than it did in 2008 when the bubble collapsed and all hell broke loose. If you recall, people spoke in hushed terms wondering if Obama would even make it into office, or if he would be assassinated before then.

People will be upset, vitriolic, and may demonstrate, but that's about it. The GOP in congress will continue to block legislation and pray that people have short memories when they try to campaign for GOP 2014 and 2016. Or - god willing - they will calm the **** down, get some work done and instead campaign on things like "hey, look at all the stuff we did" not "hey look at all the nothing nobody did"

Black Swan

Toshchiy Imperatritsy Vselennoy wrote: »

How would the GOP attempt to rebuild and recover it's reputation from the way it has campaigned?

This 6 November 2012 general election has more than the presidency at stake. My original impression months ago was that the GOP never thought they would win the presidency, rather that their real goals were to continue to hold a majority in the US House, along with the invaluable Speaker as a result, and gain a slight majority in the US Senate, thereby controlling Congress; i.e., a repeat of the 2nd term of Clinton. If they keep the US House and gain a slight majority (by 1 or 2 seats) in the US Senate, the GOP will consider 2012 a win.

Toshchiy Imperatritsy Vselennoy

Black Swan wrote: »

This 6 November 2012 general election has more than the presidency at stake. My original impression months ago was that the GOP never thought they would win the presidency, rather that their real goals were to continue to hold a majority in the US House, along with the invaluable Speaker as a result, and gain a slight majority in the US Senate, thereby controlling Congress; i.e., a repeat of the 2nd term of Clinton. If they keep the US House and gain a slight majority (by 1 or 2 seats) in the US Senate, the GOP will consider 2012 a win.

Do you think they will manage that?

G.K.

Didn't some judge (From the South, I forget which state) say he expected civil war?

Fr Tod Umptious

Overheal wrote: »

The country will not react any worse than it did in 2008 when the bubble collapsed and all hell broke loose. If you recall, people spoke in hushed terms wondering if Obama would even make it into office, or if he would be assassinated before then.

People will be upset, vitriolic, and may demonstrate, but that's about it. The GOP in congress will continue to block legislation and pray that people have short memories when they try to campaign for GOP 2014 and 2016. Or - god willing - they will calm the **** down, get some work done and instead campaign on things like "hey, look at all the stuff we did" not "hey look at all the nothing nobody did"

Exactly the reaction will be no different than th last time.

With threads like this I often wonder where posters get third info about the US and the GOP.

Some of the hysteria and paranoia posters have about the GOP is laughable

philologos

I'm not sure if it is always useful to conflate right with extremist. The GOP is a broad party it isn't some extremist contingent. For the record I don't think it's useful to conflate left wing with extremist either.

Toshchiy Imperatritsy Vselennoy

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Exactly the reaction will be no different than th last time.

With threads like this I often wonder where posters get third info about the US and the GOP.

Some of the hysteria and paranoia posters have about the GOP is laughable

It is actually how they portray themselves when abroad.

People like Micheal Graham and others travel round Europe and portray themselves as European hating nutters quite proudly.

Ann Coulter being interviewed on the BBC did not do them much good.

I am sure it is publicity but everything coming out from all sources about them has gotten progressively more agressive and nasty over the years.

But yeah our views are probably skewed.

G.K.

Found what I mentioned earlier:

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/08/22/726471/texas-judge-suggests-he-will-join-civil-unrest-civil-disobedience-civil-war-maybe-if-obama-is-reelected/

Amerika

Based on some of the comments, I’ve just got to ask… Where do these rabid delusions about the Right come from?

Given the horrid state of the economy, the serious deficit spending, the jobs situation, the debt, international missteps, and so on... If Barack Obama wins reelection it’s not his fault. It will be the fault of the electorate, and will just go to prove that you can’t fix stupid. Hopefully if Obama does win again, the GOP will be controlling both Houses of Congress to add some control and balance to this president's wanton recklessness. And we’ll just have to try again in another four years to right as many of the wrongs caused by this administration as humanly possible.

Fr Tod Umptious

Amerika wrote: »

Based on some of the comments, I’ve just got to ask… Where do these rabid delusions about the Right come from?

Given the horrid state of the economy, the serious deficit spending, the jobs situation, the debt, international missteps, and so on... If Barack Obama wins reelection it’s not his fault. It will be the fault of the electorate, and will just go to prove that you can’t fix stupid. Hopefully if Obama does win again, the GOP will be controlling both Houses of Congress to add some control and balance to this president's wanton recklessness. And we’ll just have to try again in another four years to right as many of the wrongs caused by this administration as humanly possible.

The media in Ireland, very Democrat leaning.

It's only from living in the US that opened my eyes to the fact that the GOP are not what I was told they were

Duck Soup

philologos wrote: »

I'm not sure if it is always useful to conflate right with extremist. The GOP is a broad party it isn't some extremist contingent. For the record I don't think it's useful to conflate left wing with extremist either.

I agree with you that the term 'extremist' probably isn't a helpful term to attach to either the right wing of the Republicans or the left of the Democrats, but it's fair enough to say that the Republican party itself has drifted further to the right over the years and that conformity to certain positions is nigh on mandatory.

For example, 30 years ago how many pro-choice Republican politicians were there? How many are there now? 30 years ago, how many Republican politicians were willing to concede that taxes might need to be raised now and then? How many do now?

It goes down to the grassroots. All Republican politicians have to go through a vetting process conducted in large part by socially conservative, Tea Party inclined activists. If the politicians don't pass muster, they get challenged and probably dumped during their nomination process. This means that the party churns out people who either believe in - or proclaim to believe in - no new taxes, no abortion, anti-gun control positions. The Democrats are broadly where they always have been. The gap between the two parties is created by the Republicans drfiting from the centre towards no-compromise right-wing ideology.

As far as the OP's point about extremists is concerned, it's difficult to know whether to characterize them as extremists or just really, really, really low information voters. 30% of Republican voters think Obama is a Muslim. 55% of Republican voters think that he was born in a foreign country.

I don't know how the extremists would react to an Obama win, but I'd be delighted. Not just because I genuinely think he'd be better for America, but because few politicians have endured the continual onslaught from dumbasses, bigots and rabble-rousers questioning his very right to be President.

I should imagine an Obama victory would cause a few conspiracy theorist wingnut heads to explode. And that would the sweetest victory of all.

philologos

Being pro-life isn't an extreme position either. It's entirely understandable how one could come to that conclusion. That's a really poor example. As for raising taxes you can see the argument from both sides really. One is for cutting waste, and the other is for raising tax to continue providing services. People eventually will say enough to tax rises too.

joseph brand

philologos wrote: »

Being pro-life isn't an extreme position either. It's entirely understandable how one could come to that conclusion. That's a really poor example. As for raising taxes you can see the argument from both sides really. One is for cutting waste, and the other is for raising tax to continue providing services. People eventually will say enough to tax rises too.

By people, do you mean the 1-2%?

Duck Soup

philologos wrote: »

Being pro-life isn't an extreme position either. It's entirely understandable how one could come to that conclusion. That's a really poor example. As for raising taxes you can see the argument from both sides really. One is for cutting waste, and the other is for raising tax to continue providing services. People eventually will say enough to tax rises too.

If you read what I said, I didn't give being pro-life or anti-tax rises as extremist positions, I gave them as examples of a drift to a right-wing orthodoxy. My point was that 30 years ago, you could be a high-profile Republican and be pro-choice. At various stages in their careers, Barry Goldwater, George H. W. Bush and Ronald Reagan were all pro-choice.

The same drift into unyielding conformity is also true on the tax issue. Even Reagan raised taxes a dozen times when he felt it appropriate or necessary.

Good luck holding those positions now and aspiring to high office as a Republican.

philologos

joseph brand wrote: »

By people, do you mean the 1-2%?

I was thinking more generally, but now that you mention it irrespective of who you tax someone will end up paying the price. If you're talking about raising corporate tax, companies will inflate their prices anyway for the most part, or even possibly leave the country.

Duck Soup: I read your post, but I don't get why it makes the GOP "extremists".

Duck Soup

philologos wrote: »

I was thinking more generally, but now that you mention it irrespective of who you tax someone will end up paying the price. If you're talking about raising corporate tax, companies will inflate their prices anyway for the most part, or even possibly leave the country.

Duck Soup: I read your post, but I don't get why it makes the GOP "extremists".

One more time. I didn't say the GOP are extremists, I said that there has been a drift into conformity on right wing ideologue positions - on tax, abortion, gun control etc. - that wasn't there before. The party previously was much more accommodating to a diversity of opinions on these issues. It isn't now. I can't explain it any simpler than that.

jank

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

The media in Ireland, very Democrat leaning.

It's only from living in the US that opened my eyes to the fact that the GOP are not what I was told they were

+1 million to this, as a resident of Australia and NZ for the past 4 years as well as getting to know plenty of Americans from the more conservative states I can state than Irish people in general listen to RTE or watch some youtube clips and think that is the reality of the US. Most of the guys on here who are for ever portraying the "evils" of the GOP or the tea party have never even lived there for any length of time, yet interestingly they spend an awful lot of time siding with one side over the other.

Add to the fact that the media in Ireland is very biased towards to the left and that Ireland has an entitlement culture that would put some Greeks to shame.

Toshchiy Imperatritsy Vselennoy

jank wrote: »

+1 million to this, as a resident of Australia and NZ for .

Add to the fact that the media in Ireland is very biased towards to the left and that Ireland has an entitlement culture that would put some Greeks to shame.

Yeah so much so that Irish people for generations would rather travel to the ends of the earth rather than be on any kind of welfare.

America has a bigger percentage on mdicare than we give medical cards to. And mst Amricans think we give free healthcare ...we don't.Only the unemployed get it. US unemployment benefits can be in excess of what there is in Ireland depending on the case.

We do have free education including University but that is an economic ploicy as we have no manufactoring (we have no resources such as coal or steel so it would be impossible) so we need to have a very educated workforce.


Actually the American media does not portray things clearly.

If you are Irish yourself and have this opinion you were obviously hanging around bums.

I would have said the sytem in Aus was FAR more entitlement based as far as healthcare and welfare.

philologos

Duck Soup wrote: »

One more time. I didn't say the GOP are extremists, I said that there has been a drift into conformity on right wing ideologue positions - on tax, abortion, gun control etc. - that wasn't there before. The party previously was much more accommodating to a diversity of opinions on these issues. It isn't now. I can't explain it any simpler than that.

The GOP is by and large a conservative right wing party. Therefore I'd expect them for the most part to have those policies. Others in the GOP can differ from the mainstream like Ron Paul or Rudy Giuliani when he was running for 2008 presidential.

I don't see why it is so spectacular that most in the GOP are pro-life or fisically conservative.

Fr Tod Umptious

philologos wrote: »

The GOP is by and large a conservative right wing party. Therefore I'd expect them for the most part to have those policies. Others in the GOP can differ from the mainstream like Ron Paul or Rudy Giuliani when he was running for 2008 presidential.

I don't see why it is so spectacular that most in the GOP are pro-life or fisically conservative.

The media narrative in this country however does not allow the casual follower of US politics to see it that way though.
The GOP are routinely dismissed as ';whackos'.

Back in Jan during primary season Mark Coleman on Newstalk really took a union guy on his show to task and asked him to elaborate when all he could offer about the GOP were that they were a bunch of 'whakos', it's the only time I have heard a radio host in Ireland do that.

And I don't get the theory that the GOP have gone further to the right, if that was the case then it would be Rick Santorum or Sarah Palin running and not Mitt Romney.

Toshchiy Imperatritsy Vselennoy

philologos wrote: »

The GOP is by and large a conservative right wing party. Therefore I'd expect them for the most part to have those policies. Others in the GOP can differ from the mainstream like Ron Paul or Rudy Giuliani when he was running for 2008 presidential.

I don't see why it is so spectacular that most in the GOP are pro-life or fisically conservative.

There is nothing wrong with right wing politics.

But I expect them to apply right wing politics consistantly.

Instead of taxing the rich more (as th lft might) how about taxing the poor less?

How about low or no taxation areas for business for poor areas or ghettos. It would help attract investment to an area lik th Irish corporation tax. Apply it to small businesses. If you are a small business in a poor area you make an impact.

Instead of grants to college students encourage parents to save from birth with savings accounts with good interest rates.

It is when they want to intervene in the lives of some but not all or they respect the money of some but not all or they respect the liberty of some but not all.

This Romney Ryan campaign appears to be a hypocrytical one sometimes.

There is nothing wrong with left or right politics it is politicians who are the problem.

Pro-life is a position that can be justified but the existance in the GOP of a man like Akin cannot be justified.

But every party has it's nutters.

Amerika

I received an email today from the local RNC militia Chairman.

After reading the majority of comments here, I have been waiting with baited breath for our call to arms. This is what I received:

Please come out and watch the first Presidential Debate, beginning at 9 pm, with a group of your fellow Republicans. There will be free soft drinks and appetizers provided by the Victory Center. Alcoholic beverages and entrees will also be available at the attendee's expense.

Guys... Please help me to decipher it’s hidden meaning for anarchy and/or revolt. I did see the word "Victory," but I’m lost on any secret code gearing to anything more sinister. Your help would be much appreciated. I wouldn’t want to miss out on any of the fun. :pac:

jank

Toshchiy Imperatritsy Vselennoy wrote: »

Yeah so much so that Irish people for generations would rather travel to the ends of the earth rather than be on any kind of welfare.

There is the problem right there. Many of those that have the get up and go attitude leave the country for better opportunities elsewhere, thus leaving behind a sort of malaise and a sense of entitlement that everything is the governments fault. It is only after you live in other countries that you actually get what a bunch self entitled, cynical and fatalistic lot many Irish people are. Just tune into your average frontline show or liveline.

Toshchiy Imperatritsy Vselennoy wrote: »

America has a bigger percentage on mdicare than we give medical cards to. And mst Amricans think we give free healthcare ...we don't.Only the unemployed get it. US unemployment benefits can be in excess of what there is in Ireland depending on the case..

Do you have some stats to back this up? Was listening to Pat Kenny on the radio the other day and the US american welfare system sounded very strict with very little give to the extent we would have here. Didnt the ERSI come out say say that "only" 5% of the population of Ireland are better off on the dole than a job? :rolleyes:

Toshchiy Imperatritsy Vselennoy wrote: »

If you are Irish yourself and have this opinion you were obviously hanging around bums.

I would like to know how you come to that conclusion?

Toshchiy Imperatritsy Vselennoy wrote: »

I would have said the sytem in Aus was FAR more entitlement based as far as healthcare and welfare.

Healthcare not really, welfare definitely NOT!

We have a form of medicare in Australia. All residents are entitled to it, means you get access to GP's, access to public hospitals more or less for free but there may be small charges here and there. However everyone has to pay for it in terms of taxes. There is a 1% medicare levy on income tax, this is higher for those on high incomes. There is of course private health insurance which is well worth it as you get great access to some world class hospitals and specialists. The health care system works well here but it has to be paid for. Private health insurance will cost you the bones of a few grand.

Welfare? LOL give me a break. First of all if you have assets that total over a certain sum you get nothing. Welfare isn't that generous anyway compared to the cost of living in Australia.

Memnoch

Jank - Did you see the GOP line-up for presidential candidates? Bachman, Gingrich, Santorum, Perry, Cain and co. A who's who of the clueless, extremists and religious fanatics. I mean if you really want me to I could go through the list one by one and highlight these guys, but you should educate yourself a little about them. This was the line up the GOP put up to represent the USA.

But I think what I'm about to post next is even more telling. Here's the latest 'The National,' poll showing a tie between Obama and Romney.

http://nationaljournal.com/daily/obama-romney-tied-among-likely-voters-20121002

Scroll down to the comments... here are the first few...

....I'm telling you folks, being a liberal is just as bad of a mental disorder as any other psychological disorder on the books.

QUASI TRANSGENDERED DIMOKRAT

The Dimocrat party is full of closeted cross-dressers and negrophobes. Why do white guilt white liberals avoid black neighborhoods and hate hip hop? Return your free HusseinFones and get a job and stay out of gay trailer parks in Massachusetts.

There is no surprise here. Marie Antoinette and POTUS are buying a mansion in Hawaii, internal polls have shown the marxists with a losing proposition. The media still is taking the money shot facial for him and wondering how Middle Class America can be so stupid not to take the facial. This guy has done immeasurable damage. Am I fawning over Mitt, no. Has he proven himself as a business leader? yes. I do not believe he has ulterior motives of driving the USA in the dirt. I do believe Barry Sotero does.

So much for the gender gap. So Obama has a 10 point advantage because of the color of his skin, but 38% of whites are still into self-destructive liberal white guilt. So much for reason in democracy. Plato apparently was right after all.

Time for you mentally ill Dims to go help the first wookie load the U-haul.

Dumb LEECHES people should not
breed, it is hazardous to our country's healt.

the ILK that are
voting for Obama would still vote for
him if he POOPED on stage and ATE IT
!!!! and even if he ate it with Chopstick
. They would call it a brilliant piece of performance art.

That's six out of the top 7 posts on that site. Whether you like it or not, these quotes and these people are very much representative of the tea party base.

What percentage of republicans believe Obama is foreign born? Was it 55%? That alone should tell you everything you need to know about the rationality of these people.

Amerika

Memnoch wrote: »

That's six out of the top 7 posts on that site. Whether you like it or not, these quotes and these people are very much representative of the tea party base.

No they're not! Prove it and show me quotes from the Tea Party that parallel they comments.

Memnoch

Are these people democratic voters then?

They are very much representative of the GOP's extremist base i.e. the tea party. Of course you're raging because they show what the GOP base is all about.

When people ask where the impression of the GOP comes from? It comes from these people.

Look at the number of 'likes' these posts got on the page. Anywhere from 50-200.

For a post to get that many thanks on boards, you really need a LOT of people agreeing with it.

This ugly side of the tea party is what they try to constantly brush under the rug, but the reality is that this is where the Obama hatred is coming from. This is the underbelly and all public talk is just that. It's a show. The real reason the GOP base despise Obama is because a large proportion of them are racists like those quoted above.

You can go on any GOP leaning site and find similar comments. Fox News no longer seem to have the DIscuss feature on their articles. I wonder if that's just not visible outside the US or if they removed it all together. It too was filled with this kind of insane hatred.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0810/40644.html

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/55-of-republicans-believe-obama-was-born-in-a-foreign-country/

44-55% it turns out is the actual figure of Republicans who believe the conspiracy theory that Obama is foreign born.

Also, I find you asking for solid evidence utterly laughable considering the raging hypocrisy and contemptible double standards you so casually apply.

TwoShedsJackson

Amerika wrote: »

No they're not! Prove it and show me quotes from the Tea Party that parallel they comments.

Why would he need to do that? It's people like these that are going to be right-wing Tea Party supporters. Unless you think those comments indicate that they are liberals and/or Democrats?

Amerika

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

Why would he need to do that? It's people like these that are going to be right-wing Tea Party supporters. Unless you think those comments indicate that they are liberals and/or Democrats?

Perhaps because I'm a member of the Tea Party and we're primarily focused on fiscal matters.

Amerika

Memnoch wrote: »

Also, I find you asking for solid evidence utterly laughable considering the raging hypocrisy and contemptible double standards you so casually apply.

Just returning the favor of the standards that are oft applied to my responses.

Memnoch

The reason I and I think most others who think the same, believe that the GOP base is extremist is because of who they chose to represent them:

Akin, Bachman, Perry, Palin, Cain, Rumsfeld. (Romney doesn't seem to be a social /religious extremist atleast.)

And because of who their most prominent voices in the media are:

Hannity, Coulter, Beck, Limbaugh...

And because of things that they SAY such as quoted in my post above.

It has nothing to do with the Irish media or anyone else.

The GOP seems to be throwing its support back behind Akin now. Therefore, they endorse/turn a blind eye to his extremism.

Amerika

Memnoch wrote: »

The reason I and I think most others who think the same, believe that the GOP base is extremist is because of who they chose to represent them:

Akin, Bachman, Perry, Palin, Cain, Rumsfeld. (Romney doesn't seem to be a social /religious extremist atleast.)

And because of who their most prominent voices in the media are:

Hannity, Coulter, Beck, Limbaugh...

And because of things that they SAY such as quoted in my post above.

It has nothing to do with the Irish media or anyone else.

The GOP seems to be throwing its support back behind Akin now. Therefore, they endorse/turn a blind eye to his extremism.

I'll copy this post once again, in hopes it will educate some not really familar with the Tea Party.

You’re right that I am not a grassroots member of the Tea Party. I belong to the largest segment of the Tea Party that does not get actively involved in politics for the most part (although I have gotten involved with presidential elections in the past, and do go to presidential and vice presidential candidate speeches when they are local. Sarah Palin was great in person by the way ) The segment of the Tea Party I belong to usually goes down the list of our core beliefs and votes for the candidate whose actions, not words, matches the majority of them (a candidate that has a chance of winning that is)… whether that be Republican or Democrat (but mostly Republican).

Most of us voted for Romney in the primaries becasue enough of his goals match our ideals/goals, and he has the best chance to win.

And yes, a lot of us like Limbaugh.

Rumsfeld, where did you get that?

You seem to be confusing Rebublicans with the Tea Party in regards to Akin.

joseph brand

jank wrote: »

+1 million to this, as a resident of Australia and NZ for the past 4 years as well as getting to know plenty of Americans from the more conservative states I can state than Irish people in general listen to RTE or watch some youtube clips and think that is the reality of the US. Most of the guys on here who are for ever portraying the "evils" of the GOP or the tea party have never even lived there for any length of time, yet interestingly they spend an awful lot of time siding with one side over the other.

Add to the fact that the media in Ireland is very biased towards to the left and that Ireland has an entitlement culture that would put some Greeks to shame.

I'm sorry, but Michele Bachmann and Sara Palin's blissfully ignorant insanity alone is a massive turn-off, to voters outside the US who didn't grow up always voting red or blue. (you know the mentally lazy who vote FF or FG because their folks always do/did)

Plus, the GOP seem to be the religious party who want to clamp down on women's rights and demonise the LGBT community, (Santorum comes to mind). Regressive conservatism, bigotry, racism and discrimination are not very attractive traits. It's no wonder so many media outlets don't want to be seen siding with the GOP or the Tea Party. May as well promote the Taliban.

Oh yeah, remember Gingrich spluttering on about morals. That fat mess left his dying wife for another woman. Wouldn't pay child support, which resulted in his wife and daughter going without essentials such as food and electricity. Isn't he on his third wife now?

southsiderosie

MOD NOTE:

Let me remind posters of the first line in our charter:

This is a Politics forum, not Liveline

Please keep things civil and on-topic, thanks.

Fr Tod Umptious

joseph brand wrote: »

I'm sorry, but Michele Bachmann and Sara Palin's blissfully ignorant insanity alone is a massive turn-off, to voters outside the US who didn't grow up always voting red or blue. (you know the mentally lazy who vote FF or FG because their folks always do/did)

Plus, the GOP seem to be the religious party who want to clamp down on women's rights and demonise the LGBT community, (Santorum comes to mind). Regressive conservatism, bigotry, racism and discrimination are not very attractive traits. It's no wonder so many media outlets don't want to be seen siding with the GOP or the Tea Party. May as well promote the Taliban.

Oh yeah, remember Gingrich spluttering on about morals. That fat mess left his dying wife for another woman. Wouldn't pay child support, which resulted in his wife and daughter going without essentials such as food and electricity. Isn't he on his third wife now?

Memnoch wrote: »

The reason I and I think most others who think the same, believe that the GOP base is extremist is because of who they chose to represent them:

Akin, Bachman, Perry, Palin, Cain, Rumsfeld. (Romney doesn't seem to be a social /religious extremist atleast.) .

Which one of the highlighted names was selected to run for president this year ?

The above post is exactly what I and others are on about.
The GOP have selected a moderate candidate to run for president, not one from the fringes like the poster has mentioned above.

But mention the GOP here and there is a barrage of posts about the fringes of the party as if they were the mainstream.

jimmyjon

The reason we talk about the fringes of the GOP is that they are the only voices we ever hear. Limbaugh, Hannity, Palin etc are the current standard-bearers of the party, and any deviation from their rigid principles is impossible if you're a Republican politician.

Only an extremist party gets its members to sign a pledge not to raise taxes by a single cent before they even get elected and can fully assess the situation. And in an era of massive debt!

They're more concerned with ideology than pragmatic policies. That's what happens when a party falls out of step with the views of the public at large, centrist voters desert it and any reasonable voices get shouted down.

The GOP need a major overhaul a la Labour under Blair or the Tories under Cameron.

jank

Memnoch wrote: »

Jank - Did you see the GOP line-up for presidential candidates? Bachman, Gingrich, Santorum, Perry, Cain and co. A who's who of the clueless, extremists and religious fanatics. I mean if you really want me to I could go through the list one by one and highlight these guys, but you should educate yourself a little about them. This was the line up the GOP put up to represent the USA.

But I think what I'm about to post next is even more telling. Here's the latest 'The National,' poll showing a tie between Obama and Romney.

http://nationaljournal.com/daily/obama-romney-tied-among-likely-voters-20121002

Scroll down to the comments... here are the first few...













That's six out of the top 7 posts on that site. Whether you like it or not, these quotes and these people are very much representative of the tea party base.

What percentage of republicans believe Obama is foreign born? Was it 55%? That alone should tell you everything you need to know about the rationality of these people.

I am sorry but if you are using anonymous comments posted on the web to prove...whatever it is you want to prove then its a losing arguement.
It is very easy to live in the internet bubble and not actually interact with people.

If I was 18 again I may be in full agreement with you. Now though 13 years later, after lving in the US for a period of time, after getting to know many people from the US from the south, east and west coast and by living away from home for many years, I have a more balanced approach to these things. Anonymous comments on the web prove nothing.

jank

joseph brand wrote: »

I'm sorry, but Michele Bachmann and Sara Palin's blissfully ignorant insanity alone is a massive turn-off, to voters outside the US who didn't grow up always voting red or blue. (you know the mentally lazy who vote FF or FG because their folks always do/did)

Plus, the GOP seem to be the religious party who want to clamp down on women's rights and demonise the LGBT community, (Santorum comes to mind). Regressive conservatism, bigotry, racism and discrimination are not very attractive traits. It's no wonder so many media outlets don't want to be seen siding with the GOP or the Tea Party. May as well promote the Taliban.

Oh yeah, remember Gingrich spluttering on about morals. That fat mess left his dying wife for another woman. Wouldn't pay child support, which resulted in his wife and daughter going without essentials such as food and electricity. Isn't he on his third wife now?

Ah here we go with the Taliban again. :rolleyes:

Fr Tod Umptious

[QUOTE=jimmyjon;81079309]The reason we talk about the fringes of the GOP is that they are the only voices we ever hear. Limbaugh, Hannity, Palin etc are the current standard-bearers of the party, and any deviation from their rigid principles is impossible if you're a Republican politician.

Only an extremist party gets its members to sign a pledge not to raise taxes by a single cent before they even get elected and can fully assess the situation. And in an era of massive debt!

They're more concerned with ideology than pragmatic policies. That's what happens when a party falls out of step with the views of the public at large, centrist voters desert it and any reasonable voices get shouted down.

The GOP need a major overhaul a la Labour under Blair or the Tories under Cameron.[/QUOTE]

Again I'll have to go back to the point that has been made that people in Ireland seem look at US politics from one angle and then stick to that opinion.

As I said I had views that the GOP were full of nut cases until i actually went to America and found the normal everyday people that I meet and worked with were people who would vote for a GOP candidate.

The piece in bold about centrists deserting the party just shows how unwilling some are to look at the GOP from a wider angle.

If centrists had deserted then why is Romney the candidate and why are the Obama camp concerned about the debate last night.

Memnoch

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Which one of the highlighted names was selected to run for president this year ?

The above post is exactly what I and others are on about.
The GOP have selected a moderate candidate to run for president, not one from the fringes like the poster has mentioned above.

But mention the GOP here and there is a barrage of posts about the fringes of the party as if they were the mainstream.

What are you talking about?

Are you saying that the people who participated in the nomination process all represented fringes of the party?

Remember how moderate McCain was? What was the word that Coulter used to describe him? Was it 'insect,' or 'cockroach,' I can't remember. And wasn't he about to get taken down in the republican primary until he did a Romney style about turn on all his moderate positions to clear the tea party gauntlet? Didn't he need Sarah Palin's support to do so?

I don't know how moderate or not the GOP establishment is, but they are very much hostage to the extreme wing of their party, and that suggests that this 'fringe' constitutes more than a significant part of their base.

Who's the most listened to radio talk show host to the tune of 20 million listeners, an almost exclusively conservative audience? That's right... Rush Limbaugh.

What percentage of Conservatives believe Obama is a Muslim? What percentage still believe he was not born in the USA? (I think we can kindly classify this same percent as conspiracy theorists.)

Denerick

jank wrote: »

Ah here we go with the Taliban again. :rolleyes:

Don't do subtlety, do you?

jank

Denerick wrote: »

Don't do subtlety, do you?

Better than bleeding heart scare tactics

Denerick

jank wrote: »

Better than bleeding heart scare tactics

I seem to vaguely recall a question about whether I'd prefer to live in Bushes America or the Talibans Afghanistan... Part of a worrying trend I fear.

jank

Have you actually ever lived in the US or in fact any other country for a period of time? The fact that you are comparing the two shows how biased and blinkered you are. People like you would have let Hitler or Bin Laden into your living room for a chat and a cup of tea while their henchmen would be pillaging your house while also raping your family.

Denerick

jank wrote: »

Have you actually ever lived in the US or in fact any other country for a period of time? The fact that you are comparing the two shows how biased and blinkered you are. People like you would have let Hitler or Bin Laden into your living room for a chat and a cup of tea while their henchmen would be pillaging your house while also raping your family.

Shades of grey? Subtlety? Never mind.

jank

Denerick wrote: »

Shades of grey? Subtlety? Never mind.

Guess not then, your world view is based upon the experience and environment of about 6 million people on this small island. There may be a chance your wrong...

poeticseraphim

jank wrote: »

There is the problem right there. Many of those that have the get up and go attitude leave the country for better opportunities elsewhere, thus leaving behind a sort of malaise and a sense of entitlement that everything is the governments fault. It is only after you live in other countries that you actually get what a bunch self entitled, cynical and fatalistic lot many Irish people are. Just tune into your average frontline show or liveline.



Do you have some stats to back this up? Was listening to Pat Kenny on the radio the other day and the US american welfare system sounded very strict with very little give to the extent we would have here. Didnt the ERSI come out say say that "only" 5% of the population of Ireland are better off on the dole than a job? :rolleyes:




I would like to know how you come to that conclusion?



Healthcare not really, welfare definitely NOT!

We have a form of medicare in Australia. All residents are entitled to it, means you get access to GP's, access to public hospitals more or less for free but there may be small charges here and there. However everyone has to pay for it in terms of taxes. There is a 1% medicare levy on income tax, this is higher for those on high incomes. There is of course private health insurance which is well worth it as you get great access to some world class hospitals and specialists. The health care system works well here but it has to be paid for. Private health insurance will cost you the bones of a few grand.

Welfare? LOL give me a break. First of all if you have assets that total over a certain sum you get nothing. Welfare isn't that generous anyway compared to the cost of living in Australia.

We get Zilch in terms of free healthcare...it costs me 70 euro for a 15 min GP visit..and hundreds sometimes if i want to see a consultant. And i am paying high taxes. I am paying on par with taxation levels in Germany..we just get far less for what we pay.

And similarly if you have assets over a certain sum you get nothing and if you have been self employed yet still paid tax for years you get nothing ...nada.

Private health insurance is a must here in Ireland. And we have to pay it is unheard of for an employer to pay. It runs into the thousands.


Again welfare is nothing compard to the costs of living.

If you have lived in Ireland and experienced this type of person you speak of it is not representitive of me or my family of hard working people.

And your attitude is quite frankly just as enfuriating.

I hav never been on Welfare ...hopefully i will never have to be...i get no form of benefit from this Govt..i get virtually nothing in return for my taxes.

jank

poeticseraphim wrote: »

We get Zilch in terms of free healthcare...it costs me 70 euro for a 15 min GP visit..and hundreds sometimes if i want to see a consultant. And i am paying high taxes. I am paying on par with taxation levels in Germany..we just get far less for what we pay.

And similarly if you have assets over a certain sum you get nothing and if you have been self employed yet still paid tax for years you get nothing ...nada.

I totally agree, so why are you paying tax again in Ireland?? *penny drops*

poeticseraphim wrote: »

Private health insurance is a must here in Ireland. And we have to pay it is unheard of for an employer to pay. It runs into the thousands.


Again welfare is nothing compared to the costs of living.

Yet its the highest in the EU after Luxemberg....
How about cutting welfare in exchange for cutting taxes?

poeticseraphim wrote: »

If you have lived in Ireland and experienced this type of person you speak of it is not representitive of me or my family of hard working people.

And your attitude is quite frankly just as enfuriating.

I hav never been on Welfare ...hopefully i will never have to be...i get no form of benefit from this Govt..i get virtually nothing in return for my taxes.

Again, why are you paying so much tax then? Why do Irish people stand for it? Because there is a very very large section of Irish people that think that they are entitled to state services no matter how rich or poor they are. There is an undercurrent to society that one must get as much as they can from the state and screw anyone else. Where else can one write a letter to the local TD to 'ask' for a medical card. Again one final time, why do you pay so much tax?

Instead of fighting it out in the next Irish budget over a few euros here and there lost in child benefit or dole, how about we stand up and ask for tax reductions on income and in turn cut government spending?

Croke park is set in stone, why is that? Because the left are scared ****less of doing anything about it. Its a total joke. I think a bit of Mitt Romney in Ireland would be a good thing for a few years. Can you imagine the look at the beard's faces if he walked into the negotiating room? LOL. Unions are powerful only because the state lets them be. The state is being held hostage by them.