Homophobic language...

Although the usage imo is disappointingly unoriginal/conventional/phobic doesn't the use of the word 'gay' as a casual insult as presented here really emanate "originally" from the '4chan' and 'B thread memes' etc. which to me always had a very latent air to it also with it's usage within the military.

apache wrote: »

since i didn't think it would offend you i didn't mean for it to bother you.
I would have done a better job if that was the case

Passive aggressiveness. Very attractive in a person.

Honestly, if you'd like to take a shot go for it. That's the a quality I absolutely hate in people. Got a problem, speak up instead of doing it in a weak willed way.

I am listening and a lot of you are making very valid points and building on my own. I was just clearing up some things that I thought people took out of context, over emphasised some aspects of, and didn't get the intended meaning behind my posts.

As I said, I'm not against what people are saying, I agree on many basic levels, but I don't agree that I should see it in the same light and treat the issue the same as the rest of you. I get your points that there are more sensitive people out there that might be offended, but my approach has had huge benefits in normalising gay men to my more closed minded and slightly homophobic friends (it wasn't their fault. It's a mixture of not being exposed to something other than "straight" and being at a young age where you mightn't see the scope and seriousness of the issue of homophobia)

I'm a big believer in finding a middle ground with everything and I don't think that being on either side of an extreme, of good even, is actually a hugely beneficial thing. If you were on the extreme of total equality which meant that you were socially permitted to be politically correct at all times and were not allowed to have even the slightest fun with your friend on a controversial topic, then I think you've caused a big breach in people's freedom. Not being all for this idea of "total correctness" doesn't mean promoting homophobia.
In fact, I think that more positive changes in people's attitudes and mentalities could be achieved if you were allowed to be more relaxed and flexible with what was said. If you tackle the negative attitudes surrounding and behind the words, but allow them if they are among friends and bare no malice or underlining negativity, doesn't that show us up to be a more approachable subject?
I mean if you can't touch us at all and we are above any sort of other jibe, be it harsh or with no ill intent, doesn't that just highlight that we are different and should be treated differently?

The world will never be a completely politically correct place, ever. I don't believe it to be in combined human nature for it to be so. That doesn't mean it'll always be rife with racism, though. I think that much of the badness and negative meaning can be removed from those jokes, and not just gay related jokes, in order to create a level ground where we can all be more lax about the issue and have a laugh. If there is no bad intent behind these words anymore and they stop causing any harm, what harm are they?
I think to be able to have a laugh and to be able to engage in mutual back-and-forth slagging does a great thing in normalising gay people and making others see them as nothing different. Homophobia shouldn't be accepted or tolerated but it doesn't do as many favours to segregate ourselves so much that we can't be touched like everyone else. That'll make progress no doubt, but I think the progress and complete social acceptance would come much more quickly and readily if we learn to give a little and meet an understandable and fair middle ground.

Interesting discussion. This is just my opinion so I am respecting others who have the 'right to be offended' (for want of a better phrase), but it takes a lot for me to get offended. I don't think it's anything to do with what 'type' of gay I am it's just my personality. Some people are more laid back than others when it comes to humour. I personally don't think LGBT should get a free pass away from humour. People make fun of every race, colour, religion and gender under the sun. Why should LGBT escape that. If a joke is funny, I will laugh at it. If it's not funny, I won't. I won't get offended unless the person making the joke is genuinely hateful/discriminative.

For years LGBT people have campaigned to not be treated differently. Yet what are a lot of people here promoting?....

I am actually really moved by your last post 1ZRed and so pleased that you stuck in there and responded to the challenges that were put to you.
A whole load of things come to my mind one of the first is you are absolutely right but what you have to say could apply to all of us.

In ways maybe you should look at things from my perspective for a while instead of getting me to see them through yours.

If we all did this at least every now and again just think of the benefits to all our relationships.

I think we all want basically the same sort of things, to be understood, to be appreciated, to have fun, to develop friendships.
Even though we differ in life in general, and even though we differ in this thread, both sides even of this argument want more or less the same thing.
We are not each others enemies but somehow I think we see the other side, as it were, standing in the way of what we want.

Bare with me if you can and if you cant long thread warning, skip this.

There is a core difference here between posters on the understanding of equality.

jaffacakesyum says
For years LGBT people have campaigned to not be treated differently. Yet what are a lot of people here promoting?....

Some peoples understanding is equality equals samemess and therefore being treated the same.
This understanding is kind of like a process of assimilation and some governments like to promote it as a way of keeping racial harmony among migrants.
Another example comes up with the womens liberation movement where a lot of people understood that to be about women wanting to be the same as men. (we didnt)
If equality equals sameness for you, you will want to be the same as others. Anyone insinuating you are not the same may be threatening to your equality.
This equal equals the same group will tend to be more resistant to change and can at times see signs of difference as signs of weakness or self imposed whiney victim behaviour. This group also tend to be conservatives. ( in my opinion)

Then there is another understanding of equality that acknowledges and even appreciates differences and sees them as enriching the diversity of a community.
The rainbow flag is an example of this it wasnt originally called the gay flag it was called the Diversity flag. All the colours of the rainbow are there, side by side and because of that it is beautiful. If you mixed all the colours together you could just get mud.
This group tend to want to accommodate, they are open minded and tend to like new things and ideas. Because they believe in protecting minorities and weaker members of society this group can impose rules as protections that others find restrictive and at times paternal. This group tend to be liberals. ( my opinion )

The first thing to do is to see and hear and understand one another.
I am so pleased as I think there are real flashes of that happening here.
There seem to be real efforts to understand where the other is coming from, why they believe what they believe and what it means to them.

So we have differences, the big question is how do we accommodate these differences, still allowing each side to be who they are?
Can this in this case be done, because sometimes it can't and we have to declare the nature of a group saying this is what it is and this is what it isnt