Garda Catch Brothers with €20000 worth of bikes

Surveyor11 · 04-10-2012 03:07PM

Would a reasonable punishment be to start fixing up the cycle tracks in and around our towns and cities, plenty of work that they could be getting on with that's pointed out on this forum.:pac:

doozerie · 04-10-2012 03:18PM

If people who steal bikes are casually labelled as "scum" we are going to run out of words to describe people responsible for more serious acts of crime pretty fast. No-one likes having a bike stolen, me included, but once the initial shock and upset fade the hysteria should fade too.

I don't understand people dismissing as ridiculous the idea that someone convicted of a crime might look for an honest job at some stage. The justice system is supposed to be geared towards not just punishing but also reforming criminals and helping them become decent members of society. Inherent in that is the assumption that people can reform, what happens in a society where people reject the very idea that a criminal can integrate back into society? Sure, there are those criminals that won't reform, but there are also those that are willing to try too. What would you rather do, take the pain of trying to work towards a better society where people actually make an effort to get along (which includes accepting the fact that not everyone can, or should, go to jail for every offence), or just shoot people in the back of the head on their first offence since they are presumably a lost cause already?

This is getting very deep for a conversation about stolen goods, I guess bicycles must have reached a truly elevated status these days or something.

buffalo · 04-10-2012 03:20PM

doozerie wrote: »

reforming criminals and helping them become decent members of society

I think you're going to have to leave the grumpy old men club. You're far too liberal.

DipStick McSwindler · 04-10-2012 03:37PM

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Lumen · 04-10-2012 03:39PM

IrishFeeney92 wrote: »

so instead of investing tax payers money and building more jails for our ever-growing population, we allow them back onto the streets were they take from a tax payers pocket....:mad:

Ah, a "tax payers pocket". What tax would that be, VAT? Everyone pays that, even criminals, so why make the distinction? Or perhaps you meant "income tax", in which case you don't mind little old ladies being mugged.

Anyway, I made no case for limiting the "investment" in jails, so you're arguing against your own strawman.

If the question is about what we should do with those who commit serious crimes against the person (and serious crimes against the taxpayer, for that matter) then my idea would be to outsource the jailing of those people to somewhere hot and cheap, and leave the expensive Irish jails for those convicted of more minor offences like apostrophe misuse.

doozerie · 04-10-2012 03:51PM

IrishFeeney92 wrote:

when you pay 800 euro for something that gets you to work or helps you keep fit, you appreciate it more....wonder how you'd feel if your Iphone got robbed on you

I've never owned an iPhone, but thank you for drawing attention to my obvious social failing. *sniff*

I've had a bike stolen though. Go me! *moral authority ++*
The bike had cost me over 1,000 punts to buy too, the sum total of my worldly savings at the time. Go me even more! *moral authority +++*
I got it back though. Boo to me! *moral authority ----*

dave2pvd · 04-10-2012 03:56PM

IrishFeeney92 wrote: »

....wonder how you'd feel if your Iphone got robbed on you

Well that's up there with strangling kittens.

Automatic crucifixion, with no chance of parole.

DipStick McSwindler · 04-10-2012 04:01PM

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DipStick McSwindler · 04-10-2012 04:02PM

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dave2pvd · 04-10-2012 04:06PM

IrishFeeney92 wrote: »

it was sarcasm :rolleyes:

Mine also. Under no circumstances would I would ever condone kitten strangulation.

Roddy23 · 04-10-2012 04:07PM

I don't understand people dismissing as ridiculous the idea that someone convicted of a crime might look for an honest job at some stage. The justice system is supposed to be geared towards not just punishing but also reforming criminals and helping them become decent members of society. Inherent in that is the assumption that people can reform, what happens in a society where people reject the very idea that a criminal can integrate back into society? Sure, there are those criminals that won't reform, but there are also those that are willing to try too. What would you rather do, take the pain of trying to work towards a better society where people actually make an effort to get along (which includes accepting the fact that not everyone can, or should, go to jail for every offence), or just shoot people in the back of the head on their first offence since they are presumably a lost cause already?

That's a cop out. People can reform - no problems with that. Where has that been demonstrated so far though? The op's link makes no reference to their rehabilitation. These people were caught red handed trying to make a few quid off stolen goods. Stolen off people who worked hard to pay for their bikes.
The article also said the two brothers got off with suspended sentences because the authorities believed they were not the ring leaders. Yet, the "ringleader" was also caught and only received a suspended sentence. Sickening.

Not surprising though when you look at the state of our judicial system. Criminals have it handy in this country. People who actually try to abide by the laws are the one's been punished. Getting off the subject at hand here, but it drives me up the wall.

manwithaplan · 04-10-2012 04:13PM

I have to agree with my bleeding hearted friends about the wisdom of jailing people for a first offence when a property crime is involved. I have always assumed that people who get jailed for robbing cash sums from banks, cash-in-transit and the like were being penalised first and foremost for the violence, intimidation and general nastiness involved than for the thieving itself. Drawing that parallel is a bit silly.

Having said that, perhaps some unfortunate was forced to open this container full of bikes, in which case I would take a somewhat different view.

mitosis · 04-10-2012 04:14PM

Be careful out there lads, the bike thieves now have a time machine

The court heard that on December 1, 2012, 72 preassembled bicycles were stolen from a container owned by Central Limited. The bicycles were high-end models including Trek brand bicycles which were imported exclusively by Central Ltd.

From the Indo article

Surveyor11 · 04-10-2012 04:18PM

mitosis wrote: »

Be careful out there lads, the bike thieves now have a time machine

Crap, that means they're already eyeing up my upgrade bike that I haven't even thought about yet...:(

tmc86 · 04-10-2012 04:21PM

Crime rates in relation to burgalries and theft have significantly increased during the recession. With sentencing like this its not suprising that more people aren't deterred.

Why just give a suspended sentence why not make use of that opportunity to dish out some community service too so at least some people benefit.

You'd think our gov and judicial system could actually get a positive element from the increasing crime rates by issuing more community service hours. As public sector budgets get slashed and what with the recruitment ban, would it not be sensible to make use of criminals with some good doing whilst teaching them a lesson at the same time?

doozerie · 04-10-2012 04:27PM

IrishFeeney92 wrote:

what happened the guy who stole your bike? was justice in your view done?

What makes you think it was a guy? And why only one? Is that sexist numerical discrimination going on here? Here, have a suspended sentence, and count yourself as having got off scot free.

It was, in fact, a number of people that took my bike. I didn't catch them. They fled into a block of Dublin flats whose reputation was only surpassed by the air of misery and threat the place imposed on you as soon as you passed through the gates. People came out of their flats to stare at me. The further into the open area I ventured, the more unfriendly their expressions became. When I asked if one of them had seen someone carrying a bike the looks turned to downright menacing. I continued to search around. One nervious woman gestured slightly towards a stairwell and I found the bike hidden there where it turned up to the first floor flats. I wasn't convinced I wouldn't be attacked either going up to get it, or while carrying it out, but anger is a great motivator. Those people appeared angry too, but also scared. And given the reputation of the area I'm not surprised they were scared. Any initial thoughts I had that those who robbed my bike should be locked up were quickly replaced by thoughts that those who peddled drugs and violence in that area should be locked up, that seemed more fitting. Your mileage may vary.

Oh, and that incident identified as complete rubbish a lock that I had paid significant money for on the basis that it was very good/strong. The company that manufactured and marketed that lock basically lied. They practically stole money from my pocket and replaced it with a lock made of cheese. Maybe we should round them up and lock them away too.

Harrybelafonte · 04-10-2012 04:29PM

Total scum disgusting, prison is too good for them etc etc etc

Tie them up between two bikes and get the biggest sprinters in the country to tear them apart I says.

manwithaplan · 04-10-2012 04:33PM

doozerie wrote: »

Maybe we should round them up and lock them away too.

Unfortunately that would lead to irony above EU maximum permitted levels.

doozerie · 04-10-2012 04:36PM

Roddy23 wrote:

That's a cop out. People can reform - no problems with that. Where has that been demonstrated so far though?

This was their first conviction according to the original article linked. What are you suggesting should have happened? Should they have pre-reformed?

Roddy23 wrote:

Criminals have it handy in this country. People who actually try to abide by the laws are the one's been punished.

I was thinking the very same thing as I slopped out my porcelain toilet this morning after a rough night's sleep in my own bed. Something needs to be done about it, etc.

kincsem · 04-10-2012 04:37PM

The Garda are doing something about bike theft.

doozerie · 04-10-2012 04:38PM

manwithaplan wrote:

Unfortunately that would lead to irony above EU maximum permitted levels.

Twould certainly exceed that used in their lock, which was distinctly un-irony.

ustazjoseph · 04-10-2012 07:00PM

greenmat wrote: »

Deport the F**kers.

An anti crime stance is ok . Being in favor of strict sentencing is ok. Being angry about bike theft is righteous. Why jump to racism?

Roger Hassenforder · 04-10-2012 07:26PM

Give them a break folks, maybe it was a cry for help..

Qualitymark · 04-10-2012 10:02PM

Suspended sentence is a good result. If they re-offend, they're jailed; since it would be an easy conviction if so, the local gardaí will probably be keeping a sharp eye on them.

Darkglasses · 04-10-2012 10:12PM

Qualitymark wrote: »

Suspended sentence is a good result. If they re-offend, they're jailed; since it would be an easy conviction if so, the local gardaí will probably be keeping a sharp eye on them.

But why wasn't it jail the first time!

greenmat · 04-10-2012 10:13PM

ustazjoseph wrote: »

An anti crime stance is ok . Being in favor of strict sentencing is ok. Being angry about bike theft is righteous. Why jump to racism?

Maybe I jumped to conclusions because of their name, but if they are not from Ireland I still say they should be deported. I would also agree any of our own scum who offend abroad should be deported too, after they serve their sentence.

Lumen · 04-10-2012 10:17PM

Darkglasses wrote: »

But why wasn't it jail the first time!

From the link in the OP.

"Judge Martin Nolan sentenced Constantin Sava to two years suspended and Paul Sava to five years suspended after noting both have clean criminal records and were not the ringleaders."

doozerie · 04-10-2012 10:24PM

greenmat wrote: »

Maybe I jumped to conclusions because of their name, but if they are not from Ireland I still say they should be deported.

They've presumably been sent back to Louth, isn't that harsh enough?

greenmat wrote:

I would also agree any of our own scum who offend abroad should be deported too, after they serve their sentence.

Send away problematic Irish people for someone else to deal with them? That's a very Irish attitude - out of sight, out of mind, someone else's problem. Should we welcome other countries problematic criminals being sent here to return the "favour".

greenmat · 04-10-2012 10:35PM

doozerie wrote: »

Send away problematic Irish people for someone else to deal with them? That's a very Irish attitude - out of sight, out of mind, someone else's problem. Should we welcome other countries problematic criminals being sent here to return the "favour".

Sorry kinda reads that way, meant they should be sent home to Ireland from abroad after they finish their sentence, like I'm saying our too friends should be.

chakattack · 05-10-2012 01:12AM

Strange how the groupthink here seems to favour leniency for the poor unfortunate criminals.

Garda Catch Brothers with €20000 worth of bikes

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