Garda Catch Brothers with €20000 worth of bikes

safetyboy

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/1004/1224324837949.html


So do we get our bikes back now, is there any way of checking the bikes?

AGC

The worrying thing is the suspended sentances in both cases.

If you walked into a bank and stole 20k im sure you would be looking at more than a suspended sentance.

Not much of a deterrent

buffalo

I imagine if you've already reported your bike as stolen to the Gardaí and given them the serial number, they'll have been in touch.

If the sentencing is happening now, the bikes must've been recovered a while ago, right?

Roddy23

I can't believe that sh1t. Suspended sentences after been caught with €20,000 worth of stolen goods. No deterrent for these scumbags out robbing off hard working people. Having had a few bikes robbed from me over the years this really boils my blood.

safetyboy

Yeah I reported it with serial, there must be a lot of bikes to go through though, fingers crossed.

seamus

€20k worth of bikes and posing as wholesalers - are these possibly the guys who stole the shipment of bikes to cycle superstore a while back?

I can't see two guys trying to pass off €20k of stolen second-hand bikes as "wholesale".

Hermy

...both have clean criminal records...

What the fup does that mean?

buffalo

Hermy wrote: »

What the fup does that mean?

They were only involved in money laundering.

GEDDIT? Clean... laundering? I made a funny!

Lusk Doyle

buffalo wrote: »

They were only involved in money laundering.

GEDDIT? Clean... laundering? I made a funny!

No you didn't

Junior

So of the 3 of them that were convicted, if the brothers weren't the ring leaders who the f**k was ?

cup of tea

Junior wrote: »

So of the 3 of them that were convicted, if the brothers weren't the ring leaders who the f**k was ?

Gardaí are having a tough time figuring out who the wheels of the operation was.

super_furry

€20,000 worth of theft and they avoid jail? Mental.

ckeego

super_furry wrote: »

€20,000 worth of theft and they avoid jail? Mental.

....And the guy importing the garlic gets 6 years...World gone mad.:mad:

dited

ckeego wrote: »

....And the guy importing the garlic gets 6 years...World gone mad.:mad:

Same judge in both cases :rolleyes:

Lumen

Property crime, first offence, not surprised they got suspended sentences.

A suspended sentence isn't being let off. You have a criminal record and if you get caught again you're going down.

People also avoid jail for quite serious offences against the person. Get some perspective!

Wibbs

Lumen wrote: »

Get some perspective!

Fcuk all to do with "perspective" L, everything to do with the regularity of daft sentences for all sorts of crimes handed down by wooly headed judges. Never mind the lack of consistency at times. The list is long. This judge let another bloke off who was involved in the same case last year too. As AGC noted "If you walked into a bank and stole 20k im sure you would be looking at more than a suspended sentence". And yes in actuality a suspended sentence is for all intents and purposes being let off.

I wonder how many bikes were involved? They say "high end bikes". Is this journo speak for any racer with red stripes and a price tag over 300 quid or are we talking 4 5 grand bikes?

Mycroft H

Wibbs wrote: »

Fcuk all to do with "perspective" L, everything to do with the regularity of daft sentences for all sorts of crimes handed down by wooly headed judges. Never mind the lack of consistency at times. The list is long. This judge let another bloke off who was involved in the same case last year too. As AGC noted "If you walked into a bank and stole 20k im sure you would be looking at more than a suspended sentence". And yes in actuality a suspended sentence is for all intents and purposes being let off.

I wonder how many bikes were involved? They say "high end bikes". Is this journo speak for any racer with red stripes and a price tag over 300 quid or are we talking 4 5 grand bikes?

Totally agree.

There is no punishment here at all, a criminal record means nothing to these scum. Should have been a 12 months minimum sentence

muckwarrior

I hope that Judge has all of his earthly belongings stolen.

Hungrycol

Suspended sentence? Woohoo, let the highend bike nicking commence.

Beasty I've had my eye on your "nice" bike for a while now

doozerie

As Lumen says, a suspended sentence is not being let off. Good luck to anyone trying to get a job with a criminal record, for example, it's not something that'll endear you to a potential employer. You may disagree with the severity of the sentence, but just because someone doesn't end up in jail does not mean the the convicted person walks away scot free.

Not to mention the fact that if everyone that ever got a suspended sentence was actually put in jail instead, how quickly would the already packed jails reach bursting point? And how much would our taxes have to increase by to fund keeping them all there? Etc.

Qualitymark

Maybe the ringleaders were drug pedalers?

If people are cross about the suspended sentences, what about a bike demo outside the courts, if there are several different examples of suspended sentences for this? (Three mentioned so far here - the two brothers and one other.)

Meanwhile, presumably the Gardaí will be keeping an eye on the Brothers Sava from now on, and if they happen to accidentally take the wrong bicycle home with them they'll be in the slammer.

Bunnyhopper

The Indo has a bit more information:

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/two-louth-brothers-avoid-jail-terms-3249205.html

mickdw

Do you honestly think these type of people are worried about a record or not being very employable?
They are not going to be looking for a job anytime soon.
To me or any other normal citizen, a suspended sentence would be a big punishment but to your typical scumbag, a suspended sentence = got away with it.

Mycroft H

doozerie wrote: »

As Lumen says, a suspended sentence is not being let off. Good luck to anyone trying to get a job with a criminal record, for example, it's not something that'll endear you to a potential employer. You may disagree with the severity of the sentence, but just because someone doesn't end up in jail does not mean the the convicted person walks away scot free.

As I said, most of these scum don't care about a criminal record. They'll have other illegal sources of income, it's going to be of very little inconvenience to them.

EDIT: mick bet me to it.

DipStick McSwindler

This post has been deleted.

Hungrycol

Bunnyhopper wrote: »

The Indo has a bit more information:

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/two-louth-brothers-avoid-jail-terms-3249205.html

€120 for a brand new (stolen) bike still in it's wrapper! The thieves who stole my hacker bike earlier this year probably only got €2 if that's the case!

buffalo

Bunnyhopper wrote: »

The Indo has a bit more information:

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/two-louth-brothers-avoid-jail-terms-3249205.html

Judge Martin Nolan sentenced Constantin to two years suspended and Paul to five years suspended after noting both have clean criminal records and were not the ringleaders.

Last March Judge Nolan gave a suspended sentence to Raymond Kearney (40) of Preston Park, Julianstown, County Meath for the same offence. He was identified in court as the leader of the operation.

And according to http://www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/man-sold-stolen-bicycles-to-clear-debt-3053451.html

A MAN who was selling stolen bicycles worth a total of €25,000 so he could clear his debts has been given a five-year suspended sentence, writes Nicola Donnelly.

Raymond Kearney (40) and two accomplices got the 54 Trek bicycles after they were stolen from Central Limited at Bluebell Industrial Estate in Dublin.

So two guys get suspended sentences because they're not the ringleaders, but the guy who is the ringleader also gets a suspended sentence?

super_furry

I very much doubt that people that are involved in that level of criminal enterprise are all that bothered about their employability.

greenmat

Deport the F**kers.

Lumen

Wibbs wrote: »

Fcuk all to do with "perspective" L, everything to do with the regularity of daft sentences for all sorts of crimes handed down by wooly headed judges

There are limited spaces in jail. The judges are not responsible for building and staffing jails. If the jails are filled with people done for property crimes, that means the judges have to "let off" people who committed serious crimes against the person.

DipStick McSwindler

This post has been deleted.

Surveyor11

Would a reasonable punishment be to start fixing up the cycle tracks in and around our towns and cities, plenty of work that they could be getting on with that's pointed out on this forum.:pac:

doozerie

If people who steal bikes are casually labelled as "scum" we are going to run out of words to describe people responsible for more serious acts of crime pretty fast. No-one likes having a bike stolen, me included, but once the initial shock and upset fade the hysteria should fade too.

I don't understand people dismissing as ridiculous the idea that someone convicted of a crime might look for an honest job at some stage. The justice system is supposed to be geared towards not just punishing but also reforming criminals and helping them become decent members of society. Inherent in that is the assumption that people can reform, what happens in a society where people reject the very idea that a criminal can integrate back into society? Sure, there are those criminals that won't reform, but there are also those that are willing to try too. What would you rather do, take the pain of trying to work towards a better society where people actually make an effort to get along (which includes accepting the fact that not everyone can, or should, go to jail for every offence), or just shoot people in the back of the head on their first offence since they are presumably a lost cause already?

This is getting very deep for a conversation about stolen goods, I guess bicycles must have reached a truly elevated status these days or something.

buffalo

doozerie wrote: »

reforming criminals and helping them become decent members of society

I think you're going to have to leave the grumpy old men club. You're far too liberal.

DipStick McSwindler

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Lumen

IrishFeeney92 wrote: »

so instead of investing tax payers money and building more jails for our ever-growing population, we allow them back onto the streets were they take from a tax payers pocket....:mad:

Ah, a "tax payers pocket". What tax would that be, VAT? Everyone pays that, even criminals, so why make the distinction? Or perhaps you meant "income tax", in which case you don't mind little old ladies being mugged.

Anyway, I made no case for limiting the "investment" in jails, so you're arguing against your own strawman.

If the question is about what we should do with those who commit serious crimes against the person (and serious crimes against the taxpayer, for that matter) then my idea would be to outsource the jailing of those people to somewhere hot and cheap, and leave the expensive Irish jails for those convicted of more minor offences like apostrophe misuse.

doozerie

IrishFeeney92 wrote:

when you pay 800 euro for something that gets you to work or helps you keep fit, you appreciate it more....wonder how you'd feel if your Iphone got robbed on you

I've never owned an iPhone, but thank you for drawing attention to my obvious social failing. *sniff*

I've had a bike stolen though. Go me! *moral authority ++*
The bike had cost me over 1,000 punts to buy too, the sum total of my worldly savings at the time. Go me even more! *moral authority +++*
I got it back though. Boo to me! *moral authority ----*

dave2pvd

IrishFeeney92 wrote: »

....wonder how you'd feel if your Iphone got robbed on you

Well that's up there with strangling kittens.

Automatic crucifixion, with no chance of parole.

DipStick McSwindler

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DipStick McSwindler

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dave2pvd

IrishFeeney92 wrote: »

it was sarcasm :rolleyes:

Mine also. Under no circumstances would I would ever condone kitten strangulation.

Roddy23

I don't understand people dismissing as ridiculous the idea that someone convicted of a crime might look for an honest job at some stage. The justice system is supposed to be geared towards not just punishing but also reforming criminals and helping them become decent members of society. Inherent in that is the assumption that people can reform, what happens in a society where people reject the very idea that a criminal can integrate back into society? Sure, there are those criminals that won't reform, but there are also those that are willing to try too. What would you rather do, take the pain of trying to work towards a better society where people actually make an effort to get along (which includes accepting the fact that not everyone can, or should, go to jail for every offence), or just shoot people in the back of the head on their first offence since they are presumably a lost cause already?

That's a cop out. People can reform - no problems with that. Where has that been demonstrated so far though? The op's link makes no reference to their rehabilitation. These people were caught red handed trying to make a few quid off stolen goods. Stolen off people who worked hard to pay for their bikes.
The article also said the two brothers got off with suspended sentences because the authorities believed they were not the ring leaders. Yet, the "ringleader" was also caught and only received a suspended sentence. Sickening.

Not surprising though when you look at the state of our judicial system. Criminals have it handy in this country. People who actually try to abide by the laws are the one's been punished. Getting off the subject at hand here, but it drives me up the wall.

manwithaplan

I have to agree with my bleeding hearted friends about the wisdom of jailing people for a first offence when a property crime is involved. I have always assumed that people who get jailed for robbing cash sums from banks, cash-in-transit and the like were being penalised first and foremost for the violence, intimidation and general nastiness involved than for the thieving itself. Drawing that parallel is a bit silly.

Having said that, perhaps some unfortunate was forced to open this container full of bikes, in which case I would take a somewhat different view.

mitosis

Be careful out there lads, the bike thieves now have a time machine

The court heard that on December 1, 2012, 72 preassembled bicycles were stolen from a container owned by Central Limited. The bicycles were high-end models including Trek brand bicycles which were imported exclusively by Central Ltd.

From the Indo article

Surveyor11

mitosis wrote: »

Be careful out there lads, the bike thieves now have a time machine

Crap, that means they're already eyeing up my upgrade bike that I haven't even thought about yet...:(

tmc86

Crime rates in relation to burgalries and theft have significantly increased during the recession. With sentencing like this its not suprising that more people aren't deterred.

Why just give a suspended sentence why not make use of that opportunity to dish out some community service too so at least some people benefit.

You'd think our gov and judicial system could actually get a positive element from the increasing crime rates by issuing more community service hours. As public sector budgets get slashed and what with the recruitment ban, would it not be sensible to make use of criminals with some good doing whilst teaching them a lesson at the same time?

doozerie

IrishFeeney92 wrote:

what happened the guy who stole your bike? was justice in your view done?

What makes you think it was a guy? And why only one? Is that sexist numerical discrimination going on here? Here, have a suspended sentence, and count yourself as having got off scot free.

It was, in fact, a number of people that took my bike. I didn't catch them. They fled into a block of Dublin flats whose reputation was only surpassed by the air of misery and threat the place imposed on you as soon as you passed through the gates. People came out of their flats to stare at me. The further into the open area I ventured, the more unfriendly their expressions became. When I asked if one of them had seen someone carrying a bike the looks turned to downright menacing. I continued to search around. One nervious woman gestured slightly towards a stairwell and I found the bike hidden there where it turned up to the first floor flats. I wasn't convinced I wouldn't be attacked either going up to get it, or while carrying it out, but anger is a great motivator. Those people appeared angry too, but also scared. And given the reputation of the area I'm not surprised they were scared. Any initial thoughts I had that those who robbed my bike should be locked up were quickly replaced by thoughts that those who peddled drugs and violence in that area should be locked up, that seemed more fitting. Your mileage may vary.

Oh, and that incident identified as complete rubbish a lock that I had paid significant money for on the basis that it was very good/strong. The company that manufactured and marketed that lock basically lied. They practically stole money from my pocket and replaced it with a lock made of cheese. Maybe we should round them up and lock them away too.

Harrybelafonte

Total scum disgusting, prison is too good for them etc etc etc

Tie them up between two bikes and get the biggest sprinters in the country to tear them apart I says.

manwithaplan

doozerie wrote: »

Maybe we should round them up and lock them away too.

Unfortunately that would lead to irony above EU maximum permitted levels.

doozerie

Roddy23 wrote:

That's a cop out. People can reform - no problems with that. Where has that been demonstrated so far though?

This was their first conviction according to the original article linked. What are you suggesting should have happened? Should they have pre-reformed?

Roddy23 wrote:

Criminals have it handy in this country. People who actually try to abide by the laws are the one's been punished.

I was thinking the very same thing as I slopped out my porcelain toilet this morning after a rough night's sleep in my own bed. Something needs to be done about it, etc.

kincsem

The Garda are doing something about bike theft.