Bouncers/ Clubs rights

kippy · 29-09-2012 11:34PM

yore wrote: »

Seriously? The fact that I don't drink or the fact that I'd be described as fairly quiet?

Or do you find the combination unusual...because I don't exactly know too many non-drinkers who go out looking for a mad night, fighting and breaking **** up

None of that.
I've yet to meet a person, in real life, who regularly gets refused entry for no reason, to nightclubs or places where bouncers are on the door.
I know a lot of people.

BhoscaCapall · 29-09-2012 11:36PM

I'm yet to see anyone counter my point about the type of person who wants to be a bouncer.

The guy in this thread exempted, tell how likely it is that a nice, polite person who doesn't enjoy being aggressive or physical with people would think "I know, I'd like to take a job where the highlight of the night is "physically restraining" someone and telling people what to do".

Like the police, it's a necessary job, but it requires a particular sort of person.

My only (rare) quarrel with bouncers these days tends to be over ID. I'm almost 24 and I look it... or at least certainly over 21. I remember going to an 21st birthday party in a hotel (private function) a few months ago. Everyone in my group was aged 20-23 (I was the oldest). I didn't have my passport with me, but I had my college card (local university) and several other cards with a matching name to show it was me. The bouncer refused to let me in because I didn't have "valid ID". I asked him did he genuinely think I was under 18 and he said no, but I need valid ID. I suppose the 20 or so family members aged 40-70 inside had all brought their passports...

Melion · 29-09-2012 11:39PM

BhoscaCapall wrote: »

I'm yet to see anyone counter my point about the type of person who wants to be a bouncer.

The guy in this thread exempted, tell how likely it is that a nice, polite person who doesn't enjoy being aggressive or physical with people would think "I know, I'd like to take a job where the highlight of the night is "physically restraining" someone and telling people what to do".

Like the police, it's a necessary job, but it requires a particular sort of person.

I have no interest in being aggressive or physical but will do it if necessary. Im 28 and have never been in a fist fight in my life, have no interest in it. The highlight of my night is getting home and getting into bed knowing that nothing went wrong.

kippy · 29-09-2012 11:39PM

BhoscaCapall wrote: »

I'm yet to see anyone counter my point about the type of person who wants to be a bouncer.

The guy in this thread exempted, tell how likely it is that a nice, polite person who doesn't enjoy being aggressive or physical with people would think "I know, I'd like to take a job where the highlight of the night is "physically restraining" someone and telling people what to do".

Like the police, it's a necessary job, but it requires a particular sort of person.

If there really were that many people in the professions you mentioned earlier the amount of blood stained, battered and bruised people walking around the city streets would be huge.
The highlight of any of those professions is probably getting home safe and sound to his or her family, no more than any other profession to be honest.

BhoscaCapall · 29-09-2012 11:44PM

kippy wrote: »

If there really were that many people in the professions you mentioned earlier the amount of blood stained, battered and bruised people walking around the city streets would be huge.

You seem to think that bouncers being an arsehole is limited to them beating people up. I'm not quite sure how the utter slew of other complaints in this thread have passed you by.

yore · 29-09-2012 11:44PM

kippy wrote: »

None of that.
I've yet to meet a person, in real life, who regularly gets refused entry for no reason, to nightclubs or places where bouncers are on the door.
I know a lot of people.

I know a lot of people too. But I don't know anyone currently working as a bouncer. That doesn't mean bouncers don't exist.

I never said regularly. I just said more times than I care to remember. At least a couple of times a year over a few years. Maybe things have changed now that the celtic tiger has gone

. I will admit to a slight sense of smugness when I saw that a group which owned a pub at which it happened on a number of occasions went into receivership. It happened mainly at popular "trendy" bars where the bouncers could be arseholes and the places would still fill.

Hilly Bill · 29-09-2012 11:45PM

Melion wrote: »

Males start more fights than women, thats a fact, not a generalisation.

Legally you have to carry a passport and/or an age card until you are 21. If someone hands me a passport and i dont believe its them in the picture, i will ask for the age card, if they dont have one then i will ask for another form of I.D,even a bank card will do me. If they dont have one then they are not getting in.

Sorry but thats bull. Drunk women can be very nasty and cause trouble out of nothing. They have an argument with their boyfriend and then go and complain to the bouncer with some bull to get the boyfriend thrown out and thats when it all kicks off and the boyfriend gets blamed .
I laugh at the bouncer when they tell me that "Its a private party" or "requlars only" as i know they are spoofing

. I would have more respect for them if they just say that they just dont want to let me in .

kippy · 29-09-2012 11:48PM

BhoscaCapall wrote: »

You seem to think that bouncers being an arsehole is limited to them beating people up. I'm not quite sure how the utter slew of other complaints in this thread have passed you by.

I was refering, in general, to your "roughing up" remarks.
What other complaints?
Not getting in for "no reason".
As I've said, I've yet to meet anyone with this issue.

BhoscaCapall · 29-09-2012 11:48PM

Melion wrote: »

Males start more fights than women, thats a fact, not a generalisation

Statistically, black people in London commit more crimes than white people.

Statistically, more people from the North have set off bombs on this island.

Is it okay to be prejudiced based on these facts? I would say no.

Legally you have to carry a passport and/or an age card until you are 21.

Uh, what

Melion · 29-09-2012 11:51PM

BhoscaCapall wrote: »

Uh, what

If you want entry to a nightclub/pub, you are legally required to carry ID until you are 21.

kippy · 29-09-2012 11:52PM

yore wrote: »

I know a lot of people too. But I don't know anyone currently working as a bouncer. That doesn't mean bouncers don't exist.

I never said regularly. I just said more times than I care to remember. At least a couple of times a year over a few years. Maybe things have changed now that the celtic tiger has gone . I will admit to a slight sense of smugness when I saw that a group which owned a pub at which it happened on a number of occasions went into receivership. It happened mainly at popular "trendy" bars where the bouncers could be arseholes and the places would still fill.

So you do remember then.
AS I said, I've yet to meet anyone in real life that doesn't get into these places for "no reason" at least twice a year or in general to be honest.

The trendy bars are the trendy bars. I'd be more concerned about the price of a night out in them than the bouncers to be honest, even from a non alcohol drinkers PoV.

I'm out of his tread but here's a piece of advice.
If there are that many "arsehole" members of the professions mentioned earlier on, and specificilly in bouncing, try avoid that venue in future. If enough people think the same thing about the bouncers there and vote with their feet those guys wont be there that long.
An honestly, they are not all arseholes out to ruin your night.

Melion · 29-09-2012 11:53PM

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Sorry but thats bull. Drunk women can be very nasty and cause trouble out of nothing. They have an argument with their boyfriend and then go and complain to the bouncer with some bull to get the boyfriend thrown out and thats when it all kicks off and the boyfriend gets blamed .
I laugh at the bouncer when they tell me that "Its a private party" or "requlars only" as i know they are spoofing . I would have more respect for them if they just say that they just dont want to let me in .

Its far from bull, i think in all my years doing doors i have had to get in the middle of 1 female fight. Drunk men start far more fights and arguments than anyone else.

If you are told that its regulars only/private party on a regular basis then there is obviously something wrong with your appearance.

delw · 29-09-2012 11:53PM

I got refused many times (sober i might add) from pubs in Temple Bar because i wasn't a "regular",it's Temple Bar probably 70% of which were tourists :rolleyes:

--LOS-- · 29-09-2012 11:55PM

Welcome to the wonderful world of clubbing OP. This is just typical of club bouncers and my advice is just behave reasonably well, enjoy your night and stay out of their way, if you get thrown out, just go home or go elsewhere, you will cause yourself a lot less hassle. There is no point ever trying to argue with them, you are just asking for trouble and are likely to get yourself injured. And don't go out clubbing in a group of 40! This is all new to you but you will just have to accept that bouncers are assholes and if you are unlucky enough to get thrown out or w/e, just accept it and move along, there is no point investing any more in it.

BhoscaCapall · 29-09-2012 11:56PM

Melion wrote: »

If you want entry to a nightclub/pub, you are legally required to carry ID until you are 21.

How does this work...

I'm 24, does that mean I don't have to carry ID?

I've got into nightclubs when I was 20 without ID, because I looked 20. Which is old enough.

What if a 19 year old tries to get into your nightclub without ID, but you 100% know he is 19 as you know him personally or remember seeing his ID last night. Can he not come in even though the licensing laws say he is old enough?

norrie rugger · 29-09-2012 11:57PM

kippy wrote: »

A group of 40 18 year olds most likely tanked up with beer they'd been having while drinking at home earlier arrive in NAAS and every single one of them behave like little angles.
The OP and his group suffer an injustice worse than that of the Birmingham Six. Give me a break lads.

Ah the typical helpful high horse AH reply.
"It is all the OP's fault". DO people come onto this forum just to have a go at people looking for some advice?

I was kicked out for no reason..... You MUST have done something
I was Clamped in my own spot.... You must have been in the wrong somehow
ad nauseam, ad nauseam

Melion · 29-09-2012 11:58PM

BhoscaCapall wrote: »

How does this work...

I'm 24, does that mean I don't have to carry ID?

I've got into nightclubs when I was 20 without ID, because I looked 20. Which is old enough.

What if a 19 year old tries to get into your nightclub without ID, but you 100% know he is 19 as you know him personally or remember seeing his ID last night. Can he not come in even though the licensing laws say he is old enough?

No, a 24yr old doesnt have to carry ID. If you get ID'ed and you dont have it, then thats your own problem.

If i know someone is 19, i wont ID them, why would i?

BhoscaCapall · 29-09-2012 11:59PM

norrie rugger wrote: »

I was kicked out for no reason..... You MUST have done something
I was Clamped in my own spot.... You must have been in the wrong somehow
ad nauseam, ad nauseam

That's the internet for you. It's not just AH, I made a thread on the Legal advice section ages ago after being unfairly hassled by the Gardai. I gave all the facts yet every poster was insistent that I "wasn't telling the whole story" and that it must have been my fault.

BhoscaCapall · 30-09-2012 12:00AM

Melion wrote: »

If i know someone is 19, i wont ID them, why would i?

Well because....

Melion wrote:

If you want entry to a nightclub/pub, you are legally required to carry ID until you are 21.

yore · 30-09-2012 12:01AM

kippy wrote: »

So you do remember then.
AS I said, I've yet to meet anyone in real life that doesn't get into these places for "no reason" at least twice a year or in general to be honest.

I saw it manys the night. Even just waiting in a queue for half an hour to get inside to possibly a half empty place.

kippy wrote: »

The trendy bars are the trendy bars. I'd be more concerned about the price of a night out in them than the bouncers to be honest, even from a non alcohol drinkers PoV.

This is true. Especially doing rounds. But if that's where some young lady in your group wants to go, then you end up going to the "trendy" place to see them there.

kippy wrote: »

I'm out of his tread but here's a piece of advice.
If there are that many "arsehole" members of the professions mentioned earlier on, and specifically in bouncing, try avoid that venue in future. If enough people think the same thing about the bouncers there and vote with their feet those guys wont be there that long.
An honestly, they are not all arseholes out to ruin your night.

I did. I would never go back near those places unless I had to. Hence the satisfaction when I saw some of them were under receivership. as for not all of them being arseholes, yeah I sure that's the case. The problem is that it only takes one on the door to be. And I've never heard one bouncer contradict the other one with a "ah sure go on Mick. Let him in he's grand"

I never had problems with them inside a pub/club -> Probably due to always being sober. Just an odd idiot on a door. And I'd never give them the satisfaction of arguing with them

Hilly Bill · 30-09-2012 12:01AM

Melion wrote: »

Its far from bull, i think in all my years doing doors i have had to get in the middle of 1 female fight. Drunk men start far more fights and arguments than anyone else.

If you are told that its regulars only/private party on a regular basis then there is obviously something wrong with your appearance.

I would be sure that a women would be the cause of it .

Nothing wrong with my appearance bud. Ive seen women dressed like muck allowed in and decent dressed lads refused entry. If you have tits on show then you are allowed in no matter what you are dressed like.

Mr. Boo · 30-09-2012 12:02AM

Melion wrote: »

No, a 24yr old doesnt have to carry ID. If you get ID'ed and you dont have it, then thats your own problem.

If i know someone is 19, i wont ID them, why would i?

I genuinely don't fully understand what you're saying here.

If you are over 21 but you don't have ID it's your problem?

Melion · 30-09-2012 12:03AM

BhoscaCapall wrote: »

Well because....

If i know someone is 19/20, i will not ID them. If they dont have their ID on them and a guard enters the club to check on people then its their problem.

Melion · 30-09-2012 12:04AM

Mr. Boo wrote: »

I genuinely don't fully understand what you're saying here.

If you are over 21 but you don't have ID it's your problem?

If you are 23 and get ID'ed and dont have it then tell the doorman that you are 23 and dont have to carry it. Anyone with a brain can tell the difference between a 23 yr old and a 17yr old trying to blag his way in.

BhoscaCapall · 30-09-2012 12:06AM

Melion wrote: »

If i know someone is 19/20, i will not ID them. If they dont have their ID on them and a guard enters the club to check on people then its their problem.

Using this logic, if you let a load of 12 year olds in and then then a guard entered the club and found them it would be "their problem".

Lets apply the original question to your example though.

A 19 year old you know is 19 enters your club without ID, because you are 100% confident he is of legal age.

A Garda enters the club to check people for ID. He also knows this 19 year old personally, and knows that he is old enough to drink.

Has a law been broken? And if so, why would it not be your problem since you let him in?

Mr. Boo · 30-09-2012 12:07AM

Melion wrote: »

If you are 23 and get ID'ed and dont have it then tell the doorman that you are 23 and dont have to carry it. Anyone with a brain can tell the difference between a 23 yr old and a 17yr old trying to blag his way in.

I dunno man, I'm over 30 but if I shave I still look like a kid. Never met any bouncer as reasonable as yourself.

Melion · 30-09-2012 12:09AM

BhoscaCapall wrote: »

Using this logic, if you let a load of 12 year olds in and then then a guard entered the club and found them it would be "their problem".

Lets apply the original question to your example though.

A 19 year old you know is 19 enters your club without ID, because you are 100% confident he is of legal age.

A Garda enters the club to check people for ID. He also knows this 19 year old personally, and knows that he is old enough to drink.

Has a law been broken? And if so, why would it not be your problem since you let him in?

If a guard knows he is old enough to be in the club, then i doubt an issue would be made of it.

If someone arrives at the door with no id and starts with the usual "Aw but im 19", they will be told that they legally have to carry ID until they are 21. I dont see how you are not understanding this.

Melion · 30-09-2012 12:10AM

Mr. Boo wrote: »

I dunno man, I'm over 30 but if I shave I still look like a kid. Never met any bouncer as reasonable as yourself.

If you are over 30 then there is no way i would mistake you for a 17yr old. And if it did happen that i asked for ID your reaction would be enough for me, a 30yr old being asked for ID will laugh, a 17yr old will get nervous.

Hilly Bill · 30-09-2012 12:10AM

Melion wrote: »

If a guard knows he is old enough to be in the club, then i doubt an issue would be made of it.

If someone arrives at the door with no id and starts with the usual "Aw but im 19", they will be told that they legally have to carry ID until they are 21. I dont see how you are not understanding this.

I worked on a door and the chap that was with me refused entry to chap because he had no ID. When he came back with his passport he was 24

.

BhoscaCapall · 30-09-2012 12:12AM

Melion wrote: »

If a guard knows he is old enough to be in the club, then i doubt an issue would be made of it.

So you're saying that you legally have to carry it, but you're not breaking the law if you don't? Do you understand how laws work?

If someone arrives at the door with no id and starts with the usual "Aw but im 19", they will be told that they legally have to carry ID until they are 21. I dont see how you are not understanding this.

So you're saying you just fob them off with that excuse, or does this law (which can be broken without breaking the law...) actually exists?

Also, is this notion of 'valid ID' legitimate? I've seen bouncers reject people because they had an expired passport (corner cut off), which they kept for the sole purpose of it being less risky to bring out. They were attempting to enter a nightclub, not travel abroad.

It was my understanding that there is no requirement for ID, merely a law that U18s cannot purchase alcohol and that asking for ID was a way to reassure the doorstaff that the punter is of drinking age. So say for example (and this is an exaggerated hypothetical!) somebody attempts to get into your club. They have no passport, drivers license or AgeCard. They do have a birth cert, several credit cards, several work/college photo ID cards and some bank statements. Can you let this person in?

Bouncers/ Clubs rights

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