More "evidence" of property prices going up?

Zamboni · 28-09-2012 03:05PM

goodie2shoes wrote: »

sorry but this is the sort of nonsense that mitigates against a proper debate.

You have some neck making a statement like that...

K-9 · 28-09-2012 03:09PM

Cut out the pettiness please and discuss the actual topic please.

Toby Take a Bow · 28-09-2012 03:23PM

goodie2shoes wrote: »

i was being rhetorical, but you obviously didn't get that.:o

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0928/tenants-secured-for-4-000-empty-apartments-nama-business.html

The poster was probably aware of your rhetoric, but called you on it.

Also, NAMA, a company with one of, if not the, biggest property portfolios in the world, attempting to talk up the property market? And you're complaining about propaganda?

magicbastarder · 28-09-2012 03:27PM

definite upswing in interest in three and four beds in established areas, i have seen a massive increase in interest in house viewings i've gone to. there have been a lot more open viewings; one i was at recently, there were 13 parties viewing - there were about 20 or 25 people in the house at one point.

Zamboni · 28-09-2012 03:33PM

magicbastarder wrote: »

definite upswing in interest in three and four beds in established areas, i have seen a massive increase in interest in house viewings i've gone to. there have been a lot more open viewings; one i was at recently, there were 13 parties viewing - there were about 20 or 25 people in the house at one point.

I've been doing a lot of tyre kicking myself recently.
I'm not buying anything though.
There are some folks getting suckered in by the lure of ending mortgage interest relief.

magicbastarder · 28-09-2012 03:40PM

i'd say close to half the properties i've viewed have been executor sales - no point in keeping them off the market waiting for an upswing, if you have to put money into it to even make it rentable.

Fratton Fred · 28-09-2012 03:45PM

DNG have been telling us for the last five years that property prices are going up.

Monty Burnz · 28-09-2012 03:51PM

Is this the same DNG who predicted a 'soft landing' back in 2006?

Paul Murgatroyd, DNG economist, said: “We do seem to be moving into a period of soft landing. The downturn, everything will be fine scenario we have been hearing about, it looks like it is coming to fruition.

“We are moving into a soft landing and stabilising of house price growth, but certainly there is no crash or big dip.

“The balances of power are shifting back to the buyer from the vendor slightly but the downside is that there is the double-edged sword of raising increased sums to fund the buying and paying back loans.”

Mr Murgatroyd also warned that first time buyers sat on their hands in 2001 expecting prices to keep on falling but in the first quarter of 2002 prices saw a 6.5% rise, making up all the ground that was lost in the previous year.

It's not like these guys have an incentive to try to talk up property or anything, is it? Pure propaganda.

cloptrop · 28-09-2012 05:07PM

Theres a documentary on netflix called the flaw . It shows the sillyness of investing in houses .

goodie2shoes · 28-09-2012 09:09PM

cloptrop wrote: »

Theres a documentary on netflix called the flaw . It shows the sillyness of investing in houses .

for many people it has been a disaster, but such a generalization is so inaccurate.

personally i know plenty of people who have made buckets of cash out of property. the thing is you wont hear them on Joe Duffy as much as you will those who have lost out, as the latter tend to be more vocal.

Toby Take a Bow · 28-09-2012 09:16PM

goodie2shoes wrote: »

for many people it has been a disaster, but such a generalization is so inaccurate.

personally i know plenty of people who have made buckets of cash out of property. the thing is you wont hear them on Joe Duffy as much as you will those who have lost out, as the latter tend to be more vocal.

I think you may be confusing 'more vocal' with there being far more of them.

Monty Burnz · 28-09-2012 09:17PM

goodie2shoes wrote: »

personally i know plenty of people who have made buckets of cash out of property. the thing is you wont hear them on Joe Duffy as much as you will those who have lost out, as the latter tend to be more vocal.

I know hundreds of thousands who have lost hundreds of thousands.

admiralofthefleet · 28-09-2012 09:21PM

delighted if they are. me and my 2 brothers are putitng one on the market soon

Cardex · 28-09-2012 09:38PM

Some people attribute the apparent rise to a dead cat bounce.

Prices do appear to be rising in certain areas, primarily South Co. Dublin where it seems houses are going for over the asking.

Possibly driven by:

A year end surge of people keen to lock into mortgage interest relief.
There may be a lot of people who did not buy at the peak who are currently sitting on reasonably good deposits and keen to get off the fence and buy their family home. There are, however, only a limited number of these. Once they've bought, they're gone and you could find in the new year that there's a big drop off in demand and interest.
Fair amount of public servants in their mid 50s who took enhanced pensions and lump sums during the grace period to end February 2012. It's possible that they are entering the market to buy trade-down retirement homes while holding on to their original family home as an investment.

In summary, never believe an estate agent.

magicbastarder · 28-09-2012 10:40PM

from what i have seen (from having been to about 20 house viewings), the (possibly dead cat) bounce in the 3/4 bed semi market is due to a younger generation than posited above - the interest seems to be from couples in their 30s (one estate agent confessed to us that she feels like a babysitter these days), and what we've seen bears that out.

the sort of people buying a house they intend to live in for a couple of decades are not going to be unduly worried about buying 10% above the bottom; if you're obsessed about buying precisely at the bottom, you are buying for an investment, not a home.

goodie2shoes · 28-09-2012 11:25PM

magicbastarder wrote: »

from what i have seen (from having been to about 20 house viewings), the (possibly dead cat) bounce in the 3/4 bed semi market is due to a younger generation than posited above - the interest seems to be from couples in their 30s (one estate agent confessed to us that she feels like a babysitter these days), and what we've seen bears that out.

the sort of people buying a house they intend to live in for a couple of decades are not going to be unduly worried about buying 10% above the bottom; if you're obsessed about buying precisely at the bottom, you are buying for an investment, not a home.

absolutely. people waiting for the exact bottom before they take the plunge are gonna be disappointed. on the other hand people looking to create a family home are realizing that there's excellent value to be had and are going for it. it's better than renting as most people already know.

http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/rent-rises-and-regulations-lead-tenants-on-a-merry-dance-3230162.html

Monty Burnz · 29-09-2012 12:09AM

goodie2shoes wrote: »

are realizing that there's excellent value to be had and are going for it. it's better than renting as most people already know.

Excellent value? Where exactly? We've blown off most of the bubble excess valuations, so properties are now priced for a normal economic situation. Are we in a normal economic situation? Or are we up sh!t creek having lost our sovereignty?

As to whether it's better to buy than rent - that really depends on whether you are happy to be stuck in one location when your job is a mouse-click from disappearing, and whether you are happy to take on a 30-year six-figure mortgage at a time of unprecedented economic uncertainty.

niallo27 · 29-09-2012 12:38AM

Well i bought a year ago and im sorry i did, i didnt do too bad compared to most but i could have saved 50 grand if i had waited, if anyone is thinking of buying i would tell them to wait another two years at least, your not going miss on anything by waiting and you will save double if not more what you will pay in rent.

anncoates · 29-09-2012 12:26PM

If and when there is an upturn it will be denied by many as furiously as those who furiously denied the first signs of the crash.

That's because you now have a significant body of people almost enjoying the crash - whether as property owners in waiting or smug revellers in the misfortune of others. A body of people whose endless smug trumpet blowing about financial rectitude is almost as annoying as the people boring everybody about 'getting on the ladder' 6 or 7 years ago.

Shryke · 29-09-2012 12:32PM

anncoates wrote: »

If and when there is an upturn it will be denied by many as furiously as those who furiously denied the first signs of the crash.

That's because you now have a significant body of people almost enjoying the crash - whether as property owners in waiting or smug revellers in the misfortune of others. A body of people whose endless smug trumpet blowing about financial rectitude is almost as annoying as the people boring everybody about 'getting on the ladder' 6 or 7 years ago.

Fair play to anyone who can get some amusement out of the crash. You're begrudging people for not being in dire straights to jump on property and for having some cop on.
NOTHING is as boorish as people banging on about their houses and property.

Monty Burnz · 29-09-2012 12:35PM

anncoates wrote: »

If and when there is an upturn it will be denied by many as furiously as those who furiously denied the first signs of the crash.

That's because you now have a significant body of people almost enjoying the crash - whether as property owners in waiting or smug revellers in the misfortune of others. A body of people whose endless smug trumpet blowing about financial rectitude is almost as annoying as the people boring everybody about 'getting on the ladder' 6 or 7 years ago.

Nonsense. Lined up to pump up the bubble you had huge forces: the building industry, the estate agency industry, the banking industry, the media industry (who sold ads to all of the above) and the government. These together succeeded in brainwashing enough of the public to buy into the whole bubble mentality.

What comparable force will be out there to fight rising prices?

Also, the idea that espousing 'financial rectitude' is as offensive to you as morons banging on about their latest Celtic Tiger nouveau riche conspicuous consumption shows that we still have a long way to go as a nation.

books4sale · 29-09-2012 12:38PM

Property needs to be looked at a period of over 20 years.

Prices are probably at 01' 02' levels now so they will probably continue to fall to '95 levels. After this expect a period of prolonged stagnation as happened in Japan during their property crash, 10-20 years.

Anyone expecting property to return to boom time prices is living in cloud cookoo land, this will never happen again in our life time.

With mass emigration, no jobs, every possible tax under the sun on the horizon, property will continue to drop this Winter, that is a fact!

books4sale · 29-09-2012 12:46PM

niallo27 wrote: »

Well i bought a year ago and im sorry i did, i didnt do too bad compared to most but i could have saved 50 grand if i had waited, if anyone is thinking of buying i would tell them to wait another two years at least, your not going miss on anything by waiting and you will save double if not more what you will pay in rent.

Its all very well to say you could have saved yourself 50k but you don't really know the value of your property until you come to selling.

To to say you lost 50k is nether here nor there.

Personally I wouldn't recommend anyone to buy property for at least the next 5 years. Who knows what effect all these property, water and household taxes are going to have on the value.

If it comes to owners valueing their own properties for tax purposes, expect values to fall even further.

At the moment auctioneers are pushing to offload as much property as possible before the next budget. They can see already what is coming down the line for the next year.

scamalert · 29-09-2012 01:28PM

Its ok to say that house that was 350k 3-4 years ago sells now for 125k-100k as its normal price,speaking of newly built houses,the older houses could sell for as much as 150-175k most.Only trouble is not many can get mortgages now to buy them,and those who bought at the top dont want to sell and waiting for better times,which will come back in like 10-15 years time.So its fair to say house that lost about 60-75% is worth looking at.But theres still many dreamers out there and 200k empty houses across the country rooting away.

29-09-2012 01:45PM

books4sale wrote: »

Prices are probably at 01' 02' levels now so they will probably continue to fall to '95 levels. After this expect a period of prolonged stagnation as happened in Japan during their property crash, 10-20 years.

My parents sold a 2-bed house in Ballyfermot for £40,000 in 1996. During the boom times it was easily worth 5 times that amount.

Grayson · 29-09-2012 02:32PM

Karsini wrote: »

My parents sold a 2-bed house in Ballyfermot for £40,000 in 1996. During the boom times it was easily worth 5 times that amount.

I was kicked out of a house I was renting in 1995. The landlord decided to sell. He was nice about it and gave us plenty of notice. But he did say "lads, i bought this house two years ago for 33k. It's worth 40k now. these prices can't hold forever and I'd be an idiot if i didn't sell"

29-09-2012 04:14PM

jmayo wrote: »

You mean you are called up on the bull you are pedalling over there, so now you have decided to start pedalling it here.

As has been pointed out to you over on Accomodation and Property you disappear everytime one of these latest predictions are shown to be bullsh**.

How many properties are you running out to buy this time ?

You have continously refused to answer my points on that forum so I guess you will do the same here.

BTW how is business these days down the estate agents. :rolleyes:

EDIT: just noticed you are banned over there so I guess you have to spoof somewhere.
Pity the readers in this forum are now stcuk with you.

So not actual bears then?

68Murph68 · 29-09-2012 05:17PM

The country had a €25.5 billion deficit last year.

The State spent €64.2 billion and had income of €38.7 billion.

Basically for every 3 quid the government got in they spent 5.

Is there anyone who does not see the long-term issue here?

Net emmigration is running at 250 people a day.

On the basis of that is there anyone out there who doesn't believe that things are going to get worse not better in the future ?

If you are daft enough to believe a survey paid for by an estate agent, fair enough, but don't be surprised if you find the village idiot pointing and laughing at you next time you are out in public.

goodie2shoes · 29-09-2012 06:17PM

you could well be right and the property market could easily sink even further, but guesstimates of another 50% drop do seem unduly pessimistic imo and i do feel some folk are being pessimistic for the sake of it.

i do agree about taking a survey from Auctioneers as evidence of an upturn with a large dose of salts.
i also agree that the media, and the papers in particular do have a vested interest in talking up the market, so one needs to be cautious there also.

what we need is independent, unbiased information. maybe the property registrar will provide this? we'll see.

tbh i dont really care what happens to prices, as i'm mortgage free. i bought prior to the initial boom, and cleared off my debts during the bubble period. if prices continue to fall, then all that means for me is i'll be able to afford a bigger house when i upgrade, and/or better value if i buy a flat or two.

what i cannot understand is how we as a nation of property experts got it so spectacularly wrong?
how could a nation so obsessed with property be so easily duped?
are we a nation of plebs, or maybe we're just new to this game?

goodie2shoes · 29-09-2012 06:30PM

Deleted User wrote: »

So not actual bears then?

no he said BULL

LOL!:D

More "evidence" of property prices going up?

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