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Rapist - 'demands paternal visitation rights to the child he fathered with victim'

245678

Comments

  • #32
    davet82
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,753 ✭✭✭davet82


    Seaneh wrote: »
    Exactly.

    Statutory rape is extremely different.

    For example.

    If a 16 year old girl and a 16 year old boy have sex in this country the boy can still be done for statutory rape.

    Does that mean he is actually a rapist? **** no.

    buy what about a 50 year old man and a 12 year old girl?

    when does it become more ok?


  • #33
    Spunge
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,779 ✭✭✭Spunge


    but if this happened in germany, he wouldnt be a rapist.

    funny that.


  • #34
    kneemos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,605 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    I don't think you can lay all the blame on the young man without knowing all the facts,she may have led him on for example or a hundred and one other variables.Without knowing the facts it's hard to say if he should see the child.


  • #35
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,464 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Germany allows this type of carry on?


  • #36
    saiint
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,010 ✭✭✭saiint


    he has a right to hang himself if he wants


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  • #37
    Esoteric_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,255 ✭✭✭✭Esoteric_


    Statutory rape is rape. It's not attacking someone in a field forcibly, because consent is given, but it's still rape.

    For it to be sex, INFORMED consent must be given. A 14 year old child has been deemed by legal legislation to not be able to give informed consent, hence it was a form of rape. You can't just say 'it's not rape.' It may not be rape in its typical form, but it is statutory rape.


    That said, unless the teenager is suffering from trauma or other problems relating to the statutory rape, I don't believe that access should be denied. I believe it should be supervised, however.


  • #38
    Mickeroo
    Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 33,054 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    Bam Bam Mickey wrote: »
    Germany allows this type of carry on?

    14 is the age of consent there.

    from wiki:
    as long as a person over the age of 21 does not exploit a 14–15 year-old person's lack of capacity for sexual self-determination, in which case a conviction of an individual over the age of 21 requires a complaint from the younger individual; being over 21 and engaging in sexual relations with a minor of that age does not constitute an offense in and of itself. Otherwise the age of consent is 14, although provisions protecting minors against coercion apply until the age of 18 (under section Section 182(1) it is illegal to engage in sexual activity with a person under 18 "by taking advantage of an exploitative situation"


  • #39
    jaja321
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 793 ✭✭✭jaja321


    kneemos wrote: »
    I don't think you can lay all the blame on the young man without knowing all the facts,she may have led him on for example or a hundred and one other variables.Without knowing the facts it's hard to say if he should see the child.

    Those damn sexy children, corrupting adults like that.


  • #40
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,464 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Mickeroo wrote: »
    14 is the age of consent there.

    from wiki:

    Scheisse!


  • #41
    Gauss
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 550 ✭✭✭Gauss


    granturismo wrote: »
    Gauss wrote: »
    Statutory rape is not even close to being as evil as normal rape.

    Aggravated assault isnt as serious as murder but is still wrong.

    Who said statutory rape isn't wrong?


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  • #42
    HeyThereDeliah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 967 ✭✭✭HeyThereDeliah


    jaja321 wrote: »
    Those damn sexy children, corrupting adults like that.

    I never find that comment remotely funny.


  • #43
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,980 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    Age of consent in Spain is 13
    So many rapists in Europe.....


  • #44
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,464 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    tuxy wrote: »
    Age of consent in Spain is 13
    So many rapists in Europe.....

    Just because the age of consent is 13 , doesn't mean it's morally ok.
    In fact any adult that has sex with a 13 year old is a scumbag.


  • #45
    jaja321
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 793 ✭✭✭jaja321


    HeyThereDeliah wrote: »
    I never find that comment remotely funny.

    Was more of a sarcastic response to the previous poster's comment that the child may have led him on :rolleyes:


  • #46
    davet82
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,753 ✭✭✭davet82


    HeyThereDeliah wrote: »
    He did not rape her it was consensual, he is not a rapist as the thread tile suggests.

    Fair enough, he's a 'statutory rapist' then


  • #47
    msg11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,572 ✭✭✭msg11


    davet82 wrote: »
    buy what about a 50 year old man and a 12 year old girl?

    when does it become more ok?

    When you use some common sense and think to yourself, wait that's a bit odd and wrong/disgusting.

    A 15 and a 16 year old at it are usually trying it as something new.

    A 15 year old and a 50 year old man is a man getting his hole off a naive 15 year old and is morally wrong and anyone can see that.

    Rape is rape, if he raped her in the forceful dirty way then no way should he be able to see the kid or mother.


  • #48
    Gran Hermano
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,329 ✭✭✭Gran Hermano


    Was he a maths teacher?


  • #49
    davet82
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,753 ✭✭✭davet82


    msg11 wrote: »
    When you use so common sense and think to yourself, wait that's a bit odd.

    A 15 and a 16 year old at it are usually trying it as something new.

    A 15 year old and a 50 year old man is a man getting his hole off a naive 15 year old and is morally wrong and anyone can see that.

    Rape is rape, if he raped her in the forceful dirty way then no way should he be able to see the kid or mother.

    i do get what you're saying and i agree but when does it start being ok or not as bad, some people have more morals than others.

    i'm not really arguing either side of it as i said before the story left me feeling conflicted


  • #50
    Feisar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,032 ✭✭✭Feisar


    Food for thought, if a twenty year old woman statuary rapes a fourteen year old boy, should she have visitation rights?

    I don't mean this in the way people say if it was the other way around we'd all be clapping the lad on the back sort of crap.

    First they came for the socialists...



  • #51
    HeyThereDeliah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 967 ✭✭✭HeyThereDeliah


    davet82 wrote: »
    Fair enough, he's a 'statutory rapist' then

    And she is a willing accomplice.


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  • #52
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,980 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    Bam Bam Mickey wrote: »
    Just because the age of consent is 13 , doesn't mean it's morally ok.
    In fact any adult that has sex with a 13 year old is a scumbag.

    14 in Germany
    15 in Sweden
    16 in the UK
    17 here
    Perhaps it's Turkey that have it correct it's 18 there


  • #53
    Spunge
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,779 ✭✭✭Spunge


    Feisar wrote: »
    Food for thought, if a twenty year old woman statuary rapes a fourteen year old boy, should she have visitation rights?

    I don't mean this in the way people say if it was the other way around we'd all be clapping the lad on the back sort of crap.

    never thought about that. id say she'd have ownership of the child np. and i doubt anyone would be against it.


  • #54
    Boombastic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    "He hasn't cared up until now. Why should he now? She's three. She doesn't know who he is," the teen mother told FOX Undercover.

    Read more: http://www.myfoxboston.com/story/19628763/2012/09/24/rapist-wants-visitation-rights-teen-mom-fighting-back#ixzz27fdU1DUL




    The above quote for the girl strikes me as strange.


  • #55
    davet82
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,753 ✭✭✭davet82


    HeyThereDeliah wrote: »
    And she is a willing accomplice.


    thats what most rapists imply.


  • #56
    HeyThereDeliah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 967 ✭✭✭HeyThereDeliah


    davet82 wrote: »
    thats what most rapists imply.

    Either it was rape or not? Did she willingly participate or was she forced ?
    If he forced her it was rape and no he should not see the child.
    If she wanted to have sex with him he is not a rapist.


  • #57
    Mickeroo
    Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 33,054 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    davet82 wrote: »
    i do get what you're saying and i agree but when does it start being ok or not as bad, some people have more morals than others.

    i'm not really arguing either side of it as i said before the story left me feeling conflicted

    The gap in age is irrelevant, it's how old the youngest person involved is that makes the difference. When's she's 18 the guy will only be 24, suddenly it's socially acceptable for them to be together. *shrug*

    Whats morally acceptable in these cases changes between societies, and we can only judge it on what our society deems to be acceptable, in our case that's 17 years old. In the past and possibly other societies that exist today a 14 year old would be considered old enough to be married off.

    But this thread is asking should the guy be able to see the kid, as far as I can tell from what little the article in the OP actually tells us, then yes he should imo.


  • #58
    Esoteric_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,255 ✭✭✭✭Esoteric_


    HeyThereDeliah wrote: »
    Either it was rape or not? Did she willingly participate or was she forced ?
    If he forced her it was rape and no he should not see the child.
    If she wanted to have sex with him he is not a rapist.

    Do you not understand the concept of rape?

    It's about not giving consent.

    Statutory rape is when the person cannot give informed consent. A 14 year old has been deemed by law as not being able to give informed consent, therefore consent is null and void.

    For example, a man having sex with a 25 year old woman with extreme autism or Down's Syndrome could hypothetically be convicted of statutory rape because the woman in question can not give INFORMED consent.

    What happened was rape, as informed consent wasn't given. Because ill-informed consent was given, it was statutory rape.


  • #59
    Mickeroo
    Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 33,054 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    LyndaMcL wrote: »
    Do you not understand the concept of rape?

    It's about not giving consent.

    Statutory rape is when the person cannot give informed consent. A 14 year old has been deemed by law as not being able to give informed consent, therefore consent is null and void.

    For example, a man having sex with a 25 year old woman with extreme autism or Down's Syndrome could hypothetically be convicted of statutory rape because the woman in question can not give INFORMED consent.

    What happened was rape, as informed consent wasn't given. Because ill-informed consent was given, it was statutory rape.

    Whether or not a 14 year old can give informed consent or not is not dependant on the law, it's dependant on how informed the 14 year old is.

    The law makes it illegal regardless.


  • #60
    Esoteric_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,255 ✭✭✭✭Esoteric_


    Mickeroo wrote: »
    Whether or not a 14 year old can give informed consent or not is not dependant on the law, it's dependant on how informed the 14 year old is.

    The law makes it illegal regardless.

    And since we're speaking about what rape is legally defined as, and whether a conviction as such should prevent a father from seeing his child, I stuck to legalities.

    Legally, a 14 year old child is not deemed as being able to give informed consent.


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  • #61
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    So the older man claims the sex was consensual?
    Have I got that right?
    If so - was this proven in court?
    If NOT - a rapist physical he certainly is.
    And even if there MIGHT have been consent, he is still legally a rapist given her age.

    Honestly, if that had been my daughter, if he had lived long enough to put in a claim to get back into her life (and the child) - it would be over my later then dead body - if not before his was dead first!


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