Róisín Shortall Resigns As Junior Health Minister

Side Show Bob · 26-09-2012 10:05PM

usernamegoes wrote: »

She's not resigning her seat, just the whip and government post.

Has she resigned her teaching position or she on extended leave?

Pottler · 26-09-2012 10:10PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Who gives a **** she lied about the dangers of pot and therefore should rot in hell with any other politician that lies to the general public. She has no morals, Riley could see that and thankfully so.

Jasus, pot-head much? If I was going to dump on a politician, that would be somwhere waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay down my list of reasons. I though she had some guts, didn't totally toe the line. Probably a cnut anyway as shes a pol, but whatever. Pot???? Yeah, good issue, I'm raging she refused to support our campaign to legalise, err, some crap no-one much cares about. Good one.

Bannasidhe · 26-09-2012 10:13PM

Seems like you are damned if you do and damned if you don't in this country.

Shorthall is being pilloried for not being a team player when our last government were pilloried for putting their particular team before the good of the country. Yet, it seems to me it is Reilly who was not being a team player and who deemed in unnecessary to consult with his junior ministers.

She is being condemned for wanting to put a minimum price of alcohol - seriously, of all the problems this country has not all of them are financial as anyone who has attempted to negotiate or city streets at night can see - we have a huge issue with the abuse of alcohol and our drinking culture. But how dare a minister try and do something about that.

Side Show Bob · 26-09-2012 10:14PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

This is the same lady that claimed pot gives you throat and lung cancer. She was a spoofer, good luck and good riddance.

Are you Ming?

_feedback_ · 26-09-2012 10:21PM

Pity to see all the "good riddance" posts...

I didn't like all of her proposals, but she actually gave a shít about the country and its people. I was delighted to hear her speak out recently about the glaring problems with the health system.

It was disappointing to see her vote confidence in Reilly, but maybe she was trying to get on with the job and it was the only way to do it. Perhaps on further reflection afterwards she realised it just wasn't going to happen with the "team" she was on.

This might have a bigger impact too, although if they sacked her it might have made them look worse.

Isn't it incredible, the only way an enthusiastic, well meaning, hard working, honest politician in Ireland can make an impact is by resigning...

Heroditas · 26-09-2012 10:27PM

Never a good thing to see a minister resign.
However, I also don't like seeing a politician taking what many might say was the easy option.

Hannibal Smith · 26-09-2012 10:29PM

I'd say Reilly and Shortall never got on. I think Reilly is a decent enough man, he always seemed pretty transparent and fairly to the point. Less face it, the health minister, who ever it is, always has to make tough decisions and is always disliked. You could see over interviews over the past few weeks with them both that there was little or no communication between their offices.

So shortall threw her toys out of the pram and resigned...yeah good one, so instead of staying in the job and fighting your corner for the better of the country, you run away crying, leaving the rest of us to deal with him? I don't believe that and it makes you a pretty crappy politician if it is true.

This whole 'getting a centre for his constituents' is a mountain out of a molehill. And no, I'm not one of the constituents, but I remember a big to do about Mary harney organising treatment for her mother, who was seriously ill. The media went mad about it, but I'd say they would all have done the same in her shoes.

Side Show Bob · 26-09-2012 10:29PM

elviscostello wrote: »

Pity to see all the "good riddance" posts...

I didn't like all of her proposals, but she actually gave a shít about the country and its people. I was delighted to hear her speak out recently about the glaring problems with the health system.

It was disappointing to see her vote confidence in Reilly, but maybe she was trying to get on with the job and it was the only way to do it. Perhaps on further reflection afterwards she realised it just wasn't going to happen with the "team" she was on.

This might have a bigger impact too, although if they sacked her it might have made them look worse.

Isn't it incredible, the only way an enthusiastic, well meaning, hard working, honest politician in Ireland can make an impact is by resigning...

Her vote of confidence in Rielly was short lived, she wanted to bring Prohibition into all of the homes in this country that have to pay the new property charge

humbert · 26-09-2012 10:29PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

She is being condemned for wanting to put a minimum price of alcohol - seriously, of all the problems this country has not all of them are financial as anyone who has attempted to negotiate or city streets at night can see - we have a huge issue with the abuse of alcohol and our drinking culture. But how dare a minister try and do something about that.

Nobody's denying there is a problem, it's just her proposed solution sucks balls.

Bannasidhe · 26-09-2012 10:34PM

humbert wrote: »

Nobody's denying there is a problem, it's just her proposed solution sucks balls.

Exactly why does it 'suck balls' as you so eloquently put it?

ahnowbrowncow · 26-09-2012 10:34PM

Side Show Bob wrote: »

Has she resigned her teaching position or she on extended leave?

I don't think so, that post is hers if she wants it, the school will probably have to kick out or move the new employee that replaced her. Just like Margaret Conlon who lost her seat in 2011 and wanted her job back as vice principal and of course she got it, displacing the new one vp. If you leave your post for 4 years you should not be entitled to it back whenever you want

yoyo · 26-09-2012 10:36PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Seems like you are damned if you do and damned if you don't in this country.

Shorthall is being pilloried for not being a team player when our last government were pilloried for putting their particular team before the good of the country. Yet, it seems to me it is Reilly who was not being a team player and who deemed in unnecessary to consult with his junior ministers.

She is being condemned for wanting to put a minimum price of alcohol - seriously, of all the problems this country has not all of them are financial as anyone who has attempted to negotiate or city streets at night can see - we have a huge issue with the abuse of alcohol and our drinking culture. But how dare a minister try and do something about that.

Because her proposals would do f*ck all to stop the alcohol problem, and as I stated in a post previous may stop sports competitions running which bring money into the economy if they went ahead.
Also if her proposal was meant to stop alcohol abuse, she forgot about the pubs and clubs where this also takes place, more frequently. Its not a cost thing, but as you said a culture one. People wont stop if they put the price up, but it simply means the responsible drinkers have to pay more.
This idea that because people are pre-drinking before they go out on the town and thats why all these alcohol issues occur after nights out is stupid. Conveniently left out was the fact the people had 10 Jager bombs in the club and "went mad". No it must have been the pre-drinking that is to blame :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Nick

Bannasidhe · 26-09-2012 10:38PM

yoyo wrote: »

Because her proposals would do f*ck all to stop the alcohol problem, and as I stated in a post previous may stop sports competitions running which bring money into the economy if they went ahead.
Also if her proposal was meant to stop alcohol abuse, she forgot about the pubs and clubs where this also takes place, more frequently. Its not a cost thing, but as you said a culture one. People wont stop if they put the price up, but it simply means the responsible drinkers have to pay more.
This idea that because people are pre-drinking before they go out on the town and thats why all these alcohol issues occur after nights out is stupid. Conveniently left out was the fact the people had 10 Jager bombs in the club and "went mad". No it must have been the pre-drinking that is to blame :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Nick

So what do you propose should be done?

Uriel. · 26-09-2012 10:38PM

I think her resignation from the party whip is more of a story to her resignation as Junior Minister.

She clearly wasn't getting support from her parliamentary party colleagues and one would have to wonder if this is the first major sign of division and split, not just in Government, but in the labour party.

It is also clear that there are division lines in Fine Gael (dating back to pre election). You'd have to wonder what the parties will be like in 2 years, if they survive that long

Lord Trollington · 26-09-2012 10:38PM

It all comes back to this government and the government before being unwilling to tackle the public sector reform.

They intended to save €75million on Public sector perks. PERKS. Not direct wages. PERKS. But ended up only shaving €3mill.

Instead of doing this they are cutting other departments and taking the easy option.

Side Show Bob · 26-09-2012 10:42PM

ahnowbrowncow wrote: »

I don't think so, that post is hers if she wants it, the school will probably have to kick out or move the new employee that replaced her. Just like Margaret Conlon who lost her seat in 2011 and wanted her job back as vice principal and of course she got it, displacing the new one vp. If you leave your post for 4 years you should not be entitled to it back whenever you want

This too is equally as bad as stroke politics, she's been happy enough with her absorbent wages and super long extended holidays, didn't decide to try out the private sector did she! its look after number once again!

_feedback_ · 26-09-2012 10:47PM

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

So shortall threw her toys out of the pram and resigned...yeah good one, so instead of staying in the job and fighting your corner for the better of the country, you run away crying, leaving the rest of us to deal with him? I don't believe that and it makes you a pretty crappy politician if it is true.

So she should just stay and do what she is told?

You could change the names in these scenarios and it is always the same. Get in, follow what the party says and enjoy the benefits. Try to keep the constituency happy for the oul votes too.

Father Stack made those changes to that list for no good reason that Shorthall could see. It's glaringly obvious what he was at.

She came out and said just about all she could publicly and followed the sheep and voted confidence. I'd say she was fúckin raging about that. Imagine going in to that job full of ideas and promises and wanting to actually make a change, then being forced in to this crap of voting for someone you don't have confidence in.

Obviously something forced her to make that decision in the end. Maybe he said something like "If you ever speak to the press like that again, I'll put your head through the wall".

Pottler · 26-09-2012 10:47PM

Heroditas wrote: »

Never a good thing to see a minister resign.
However, I also don't like seeing a politician taking what many might say was the easy option.

No, just NO, on many levels. Bring on resignations, I have a list, somwhere of just who should.

humbert · 26-09-2012 10:48PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Exactly why does it 'suck balls' as you so eloquently put it?

Because minimum pricing is good for the vintners and does nothing to stop binge drinking in pubs and nightclubs, just like closing the off licences early. Absolute balls.

Bannasidhe · 26-09-2012 10:51PM

humbert wrote: »

Because minimum pricing is good for the vintners and does nothing to stop binge drinking in pubs and nightclubs, just like closing the off licences early. Absolute balls.

So what do you propose we should do about the rampant abuse of alcohol in our society?

yoyo · 26-09-2012 10:51PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

So what do you propose should be done?

I don't know, but certainly increasing the price isn't a viable solution. Some things that could be tried though that I think would work:

No stupid "standard" kicking out times or off licence closing times. Both cause people to panick and they "need" more booze before hand so may buy more than they need before closing time.
Education? Who knows maybe rather than drilling religion into kids at school talk about the dangers of substance abuse?
Enforce laws like in the US which makes it illegal for a pub or off licence to serve intoxicated persons and fines could be issued if serious breaches occur (I doubt this one would be popular with our VFI friends )

I think numbers 1 and 2 are the best "solutions". Why is it that both Ireland and the UK, countries with apparent "drink problems" have the most expensive alcohol and yet it doesn't seem to help the problem? You can get bottles of wine for 1/2€ in spain/france, cans of beer for well under a Euro and they don't have serious "issues". They also don't have set strict hours of operation like we do.

Nick

humbert · 26-09-2012 10:55PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

So what do you propose we should do about the rampant abuse of alcohol in our society?

If I am unable to give you an answer does that make her plan a good one?

Oh, and permitting cafes to sell alcohol would be helpful in promoting a healthier drinking culture but that was vetoed because it's bad for the vintners.

Bannasidhe · 26-09-2012 10:56PM

yoyo wrote: »

I don't know, but certainly increasing the price isn't a viable solution. Some things that could be tried though that I think would work:
No stupid "standard" kicking out times or off licence closing times. Both cause people to panick and they "need" more booze before hand so may buy more than they need before closing time.

Education? Who knows maybe rather than drilling religion into kids at school talk about the dangers of substance abuse?

Enforce laws like in the US which makes it illegal for a pub or off licence to serve intoxicated persons and fines could be issued if serious breaches occur (I doubt this one would be popular with our VFI friends )

I think numbers 1 and 2 are the best "solutions". Why is it that both Ireland and the UK, countries with apparent "drink problems" have the most expensive alcohol and yet it doesn't seem to help the problem? You can get bottles of wine for 1/2€ in spain/france, cans of beer for well under a Euro and they don't have serious "issues". They also don't have set strict hours of operation like we do.

Nick

Do you also suggest we follow the US and have 21 as the minimum age?

Only once in many years of spending large amounts of time - including living - in cities across the globe have a witnessed a scene of drunkeness that I can see any Fri/Sat night in Cork's Patrick Street and that was Barcelona on New Years Eve. Why do you think that is?

Pottler · 26-09-2012 10:58PM

Side Show Bob wrote: »

This too is equally as bad as stroke politics, she's been happy enough with her absorbent wages and super long extended holidays, didn't decide to try out the private sector did she! its look after number once again!

Yeah, I hear she gets One sheet.

Toby Take a Bow · 26-09-2012 10:58PM

Can't understand why she voted for Reilly in the 'no confidence' thing a little back and then does this. Anyone able to shed some light on this? Doesn't make any sense.

Bannasidhe · 26-09-2012 10:59PM

humbert wrote: »

If I am unable to give you an answer does that make her plan a good one?

Oh, and permitting cafes to sell alcohol would be helpful in promoting a healthier drinking culture but that was vetoed because it's bad for the vintners.

Well, it's easy to criticism but difficult to come up with an alternative. Personally, I'd put a euro on every unit of alcohol and ring fence the monies earned to help offset the cost to our health services for treatment of alcohol related illnesses/accidents.

yoyo · 26-09-2012 11:02PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Do you also suggest we follow the US and have 21 as the minimum age?

Only once in many years of spending large amounts of time - including living - in cities across the globe have a witnessed a scene of drunkeness that I can see any Fri/Sat night in Cork's Patrick Street and that was Barcelona on New Years Eve. Why do you think that is?

No, I don't think 21 is a sensible age, 18 is far more reasonable. What reasons do you believe that increasing the price of drink will stop the abuse? Would you think a system where a publican could only serve someone 2 or 3 pints (or whatever the "harzerdous" level Shorthall came out with) and have to stop after is reasonable? I think this makes as much sense as minimum pricing. I'm fairly sure tomorrow for Arthurs Day people will be getting scuttered-in pubs!

Nick

Side Show Bob · 26-09-2012 11:05PM

Pottler wrote: »

Yeah, I hear she gets One sheet.

Eh... What... she's 3 sheets me thinks

Bannasidhe · 26-09-2012 11:18PM

yoyo wrote: »

No, I don't think 21 is a sensible age, 18 is far more reasonable. What reasons do you believe that increasing the price of drink will stop the abuse? Would you think a system where a publican could only serve someone 2 or 3 pints (or whatever the "harzerdous" level Shorthall came out with) and have to stop after is reasonable? I think this makes as much sense as minimum pricing. I'm fairly sure tomorrow for Arthurs Day people will be getting scuttered-in pubs!

Nick

We already have legislation regarding the sale of alcohol in licensed premises.

Patrons of licenced bars and premises in Ireland are expected to behave at all times with due respect for others. The law on conduct in licenced premises changed in August 2003. It is now an offence under the 2003 Act to supply alcohol to a drunken person and to admit a drunken person to a bar. (A 'drunken person' is someone intoxicated to such a degree that they may endanger themselves or other people). Any licence holder that allows this to occur on their premises is liable on summary conviction to a class B fine for a first offence and a class A fine for any subsequent offence.

It is also an offence to engage in disorderly conduct on a licenced premises in Ireland. This means that you cannot behave in any way that constitutes a risk to the health, safety or welfare of anyone else on the premises. It also means that you cannot behave in a violent, threatening, abusive, insulting or quarrelsome manner. If you are requested to leave a licenced premises by the licence holder or a member of the Gardai, you must do so. Failure to leave when requested can mean you are liable for a class E fine. You may also be arrested by the Gardai.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/criminal_law/criminal_offences/alcohol_and_the_law.html

Doesn't seem to have made even the slightest difference.

humbert · 26-09-2012 11:19PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

We already have legislation regarding the sale of alcohol in licensed premises.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/criminal_law/criminal_offences/alcohol_and_the_law.html

Doesn't seem to have made even the slightest difference.

It's another good example of why more legislation isn't helpful.

Róisín Shortall Resigns As Junior Health Minister

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