Amalgamation of VECs

sitstill · 26-09-2012 06:53PM #1

Does anyone know if this is still set to go ahead. I think the date was Jan 2013 for the change and that FAS was to be merged into them.

What are the pros/cons of it and what does it mean for VEC teachers?

TheDriver · 26-09-2012 06:54PM

yes, going ahead next Jan
Pros: less staff needed for payroll etc, bigger buying power and all that.
Cons: less local support

Teachers: won't mean anything except redeployment if you are in a bordering county VEC which is now amalgamated

bdoo · 26-09-2012 07:05PM

sitstill wrote: »

Does anyone know if this is still set to go ahead. I think the date was Jan 2013 for the change and that FAS was to be merged into them.

What are the pros/cons of it and what does it mean for VEC teachers?

It is going ahead. CEO's are already designated to the various boards. I understand that the current committees will run in tandem until the reach the end if their normal cycle which coincides with local elections.

On a day to day basis it will mean very little. It may allow for greater transfer opportunities within a larger scheme. I think that current staff can only be transferred within their current VEC area unless they apply to move outside it which would suit many. That's going on what happened in past amalgamations. TUI would want to be on the ball here.

I think that fas will become solas. The vec's will take over some of the training function of fas.

Interestingly the legislation mentions something about boards offering assistance to schools within their area whether under their patronage or not it will be interesting to see how this develops and if it is a precursor to a major change in the whole second level system.

Chris68 · 26-09-2012 07:32PM

I was at a function in CoDubVEC where the changes were explained. To be honest it was very quick and detailed so I probably didn't pick up everything right. So open to correction on this. As I understand it Adult Education as it stands will no longer exist. It will be merged into Further Education. FAS training will too. The funding will come via Solas and has to be argued for on a business/results/acreditation basis. The VEC second level schools will come under the DES instead.

bdoo · 26-09-2012 07:35PM

Chris68 wrote: »

I was at a function in CoDubVEC where the changes were explained. To be honest it was very quick and detailed so I probably didn't pick up everything right. So open to correction on this. As I understand it Adult Education as it stands will no longer exist. It will be merged into Further Education. FAS training will too. The funding will come via Solas and has to be argued for on a business/results/acreditation basis. The VEC second level schools will come under the DES instead.

VEC schools will remain with the education and training board - new name for VEC

Further Ed. · 26-09-2012 10:32PM

The new ETBs are going to be more than just amalgamated VECs or so it seems according to what the Minister for Education and Skills told the IVEA (umbrella organisation for the VECs).
http://www.education.ie/en/Press-Events/Speeches/2012-Speeches/13-September-2012-Address-by-Ruairi-Quinn-TD-Minister-for-Education-Skills-to-the-IVEA-Congress-Cavan.html

Key points included;
• New legislation - Education and Training Boards Bill 2012 will be enacted by the end of this year
• VECs will become ETBs in Jan 2013 with the existing VECs schools and centres transferring over.
• Focus on expanding the role of VECs/ETBs. Seems ETBs will have a greater role to play in education with all sectors eg primary and secondary (non-VEC) - Primary, post-primary, further education and training – all areas where locally managed education is going to become more prevalent in the coming years. ETBS will have a greater role as a provider of services to the wider education sector, and as a tier of administration between Department and individual schools.
• Vision where VECs/ETBs will provide a range of supports and services to all of the schools in their areas.
• The FAS Training Centres in each region will also come under the auspices of the ETB.
• SOLAS will have a role for FE parallel with the role of the Higher Education Authority in Higher Education
• SOLAS will not deliver courses – that will be done via the ETBs
• There is a focus on FE programmes that are targeted towards the unemployed - programmes that are relevant to the needs of both learners and the economy
• Existing VEC committee members will continue to serve together on the merged bodies until the local elections of 2014

It seems that SOLAS will manage the FE sector and decide what courses will be run where with priority focus on courses for up-skilling and the unemployed. There is little mention of the need to cater for the traditional Leaving Cert student. Providers (I assume ETBs) will have to apply to SOLAS for funding to run the courses (replacing the traditional VPT/2 application to the Dept).

Questions that arise include;
• The different qualifications required of the Teachers/Trainers. To work in the VEC you must be registered with Teaching Council while FAS Trainers are not required to register with the Teaching Council and different standards apply for staff employed via provide providers on FAS contracts, yet they all deliver the same FETAC qualifications
• The sector will have alot of staff (FAS and VEC) thus raising the issue whether there will be any vacancies in the FE sector in the coming years
• Allowance are paid to FAS trainees but not to PLC students yet they will be completing the same FETAC qualification (even more so if programme development is at ETB level)
• FAS Training centres run courses all year round – not just along the lines of the academic year
• QA and programme development will probably be more streamlined reducing the role of FE colleges

newfrontier · 27-09-2012 09:38PM

Further Ed. wrote: »

The new ETBs are going to be more than just amalgamated VECs or so it seems according to what the Minister for Education and Skills told the IVEA (umbrella organisation for the VECs).
http://www.education.ie/en/Press-Events/Speeches/2012-Speeches/13-September-2012-Address-by-Ruairi-Quinn-TD-Minister-for-Education-Skills-to-the-IVEA-Congress-Cavan.html

Key points included;
• New legislation - Education and Training Boards Bill 2012 will be enacted by the end of this year
• VECs will become ETBs in Jan 2013 with the existing VECs schools and centres transferring over.
• Focus on expanding the role of VECs/ETBs. Seems ETBs will have a greater role to play in education with all sectors eg primary and secondary (non-VEC) - Primary, post-primary, further education and training – all areas where locally managed education is going to become more prevalent in the coming years. ETBS will have a greater role as a provider of services to the wider education sector, and as a tier of administration between Department and individual schools.
• Vision where VECs/ETBs will provide a range of supports and services to all of the schools in their areas.
• The FAS Training Centres in each region will also come under the auspices of the ETB.
• SOLAS will have a role for FE parallel with the role of the Higher Education Authority in Higher Education
• SOLAS will not deliver courses – that will be done via the ETBs
• There is a focus on FE programmes that are targeted towards the unemployed - programmes that are relevant to the needs of both learners and the economy
• Existing VEC committee members will continue to serve together on the merged bodies until the local elections of 2014

It seems that SOLAS will manage the FE sector and decide what courses will be run where with priority focus on courses for up-skilling and the unemployed. There is little mention of the need to cater for the traditional Leaving Cert student. Providers (I assume ETBs) will have to apply to SOLAS for funding to run the courses (replacing the traditional VPT/2 application to the Dept).

Questions that arise include;
• The different qualifications required of the Teachers/Trainers. To work in the VEC you must be registered with Teaching Council while FAS Trainers are not required to register with the Teaching Council and different standards apply for staff employed via provide providers on FAS contracts, yet they all deliver the same FETAC qualifications
• The sector will have alot of staff (FAS and VEC) thus raising the issue whether there will be any vacancies in the FE sector in the coming years
• Allowance are paid to FAS trainees but not to PLC students yet they will be completing the same FETAC qualification (even more so if programme development is at ETB level)
• FAS Training centres run courses all year round – not just along the lines of the academic year
• "QA and programme development will probably be more streamlined reducing the role of FE colleges

Interesting points ..and overall plan but I got the impression the FE colleges were being pushed to develop more QA procedures inline with the new CAS modules and the new QQAI.? Perhaps you could clarify

Further Ed. · 28-09-2012 11:32AM

Interesting points ..and overall plan but I got the impression the FE colleges were being pushed to develop more QA procedures inline with the new CAS modules and the new QQAI.? Perhaps you could clarify

They are not pushed to develop and update but are required to do so - FETAC are conducting monitoring visits to FETAC providers and if they are not happy with the QA procedures (ie failure to update or follow) then they are suspending providers left, right and centre.

It is going to far more difficult to run a FETAC course - it is no longer sufficient to be a provider - you know have to submit your programme for validation to FETAC before you can run the course. Old modules are disappearing at a fast rate.

It seems that in the long run that instead of several QA systems within a VEC that there will be one system and that will apply to all FETAC providers in that ETB and if that is the case then you will see a move towards a national system for all ETBs.

xtralong · 29-09-2012 06:06PM

Anyone have any idea where the Youthreach centres will fit in to the new ETBs after the amalgamation? They are currently under the control of Adult Education Services within VECs.

Further Ed. · 01-10-2012 09:31AM

Youthreach will stay with VECs ie the new ETBs but there will probably a re-arrangement of how the ETBs are structured.

Rebelheart · 30-10-2013 10:45PM

I was just looking at vacancies on Louth VEC website here. Now, as you can see the domain is still louthvec.ie, but the jobs are advertised on behalf of Louth Meath Education Training Board: "LMETB Invites applications for the following Part Time teaching positions for the school year 2013/2014". Then, the advertised positions are only for schools in Louth.

Why are the VECs so slow in integrating everything? Will all ETBs have a single recruitment website, or will they continue to carry on VEC inefficiencies by each having separate ones?

ustazjoseph · 04-11-2013 08:10PM

Rebelheart wrote: »

I was just looking at vacancies on Louth VEC website here. Now, as you can see the domain is still louthvec.ie, but the jobs are advertised on behalf of Louth Meath Education Training Board: "LMETB Invites applications for the following Part Time teaching positions for the school year 2013/2014". Then, the advertised positions are only for schools in Louth.

Why are the VECs so slow in integrating everything? Will all ETBs have a single recruitment website, or will they continue to carry on VEC inefficiencies by each having separate ones?

I presume theyre slow integrating everything because they dont have any extra budget to do a lot of extra work, because the initial emphasis will be on integrating key systems ,: budgets , payroll, stock etc. Later the less essential stuff like signage , letterheads, etc will be upgraded. Integration is actually a major task. All the staff had plenty to do before this was given to them.

whiteandlight · 04-11-2013 08:12PM

This really doesn't feel like a cost saving exercise at all. All systems have to be merged and all staff are being kept on. It's creating work.

In addition who decided to merge Wicklow and Kildare? They are both massive!

ustazjoseph · 05-11-2013 08:24PM

Musicmental85 wrote: »

This really doesn't feel like a cost saving exercise at all. All systems have to be merged and all staff are being kept on. It's creating work.

In addition who decided to merge Wicklow and Kildare? They are both massive!

The whole amalgamation of VECs was part of the panic and rush to cut costs or be seen to cut costs which gripped the nation in the early months of the crash . Remember "an bord Snip" and mcarthy's list. The decision probably came via the Dept of education perhaps with some local inputs. It creates unnecessary work, removes another small level of local management and accountability and I fear gets in the way of the real work of VECs .

MervynTierney · 03-03-2014 07:06PM

On what grounds were the amalgamations chosen? Was it just regional?

ustazjoseph · 03-03-2014 09:39PM

MervynTierney wrote: »

On what grounds were the amalgamations chosen? Was it just regional?

sort of - there was a lot of squabbling at local levels. In the end we ended up with 16. there seems to be a fas training centre in most of the new etb areas . So Solas is the new management system for education and training - not the Dept - In the same way as the HSE runs health , not the Dept of Health .

Amalgamation of VECs

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