Time to re evaluate enoch powells "rivers of blood" speech

Duzzer · 25-09-2012 10:28PM

Nodin wrote: »

Well the number of immigrants from those areas are actually fairly small. What you're on about, I suspect, are Asylum seekers. Do you know how long it can take to get processed, for an asylum seeker?

I'd say they mostly arrived here under that guise. One can only imagine the terror they went through as they had to flee their country and seek asylum on a little island on the far side of Europe.

Nodin · 25-09-2012 10:37PM

Duzzer wrote: »

I'd say they mostly arrived here under that guise. One can only imagine the terror they went through as they had to flee their country and seek asylum on a little island on the far side of Europe.

So now all asylum seekers who made it here and made it through the process are, essentially, fraudsters.

If you were seeking asylum, would you go to a stable safe country, or someplace like somalia?

Mr Benevolent · 25-09-2012 10:46PM

Cool, Stormfront's got a presence on Boards now. Who wants popcorn?

af_thefragile · 25-09-2012 10:48PM

Confab wrote: »

Cool, Stormfront's got a presence on Boards now. Who wants popcorn?

I thought they've been here for years...

Duzzer · 25-09-2012 10:50PM

Well guise is a word to describe an impression or appearance that someone wants to portray. In the case of an asylum seeker obviously not all are genuine when their cases are examined therefore the word guise is the most appropriate one to use.

Duzzer · 25-09-2012 10:52PM

Confab wrote: »

Cool, Stormfront's got a presence on Boards now. Who wants popcorn?

Are you inferring some one here is in stormfront?

Pherekydes · 25-09-2012 10:55PM

Duzzer wrote: »

Well guise is a word to describe an impression or appearance that someone wants to portray. In the case of an asylum seeker obviously not all are genuine when their cases are examined therefore the word guise is the most appropriate one to use.

In some cases. In many cases, asylum seekers are legit.

Enoch Powell was a rabidly racist rabble rouser.

Nice alliteration, eh?

Nodin · 25-09-2012 10:55PM

Duzzer wrote: »

Well guise is a word to describe an impression or appearance that someone wants to portray. In the case of an asylum seeker obviously not all are genuine when their cases are examined therefore the word guise is the most appropriate one to use.

....but you seem to be implying that at least some of the ones that get in are not in fact, genuine.

Duzzer · 25-09-2012 11:13PM

Nodin wrote: »

....but you seem to be implying that at least some of the ones that get in are not in fact, genuine.

I'm saying that of all the asylum seekers that arrive here some of them are not genuine. I'm always amazed at the efforts they have all made to get to Ireland, if they purely want to get away from tyranny and terror then why not just get to the closest country that will give them safe refuge.

Nodin · 25-09-2012 11:17PM

Duzzer wrote: »

I'm saying that of all the asylum seekers that arrive here some of them are not genuine..

...but theres frauds in every system and the vast majority of applicants don't get in so whats the big deal? Are you saying some that get in are fraudsters?

Duzzer wrote: »

I'm always amazed at the efforts they have all made to get to Ireland, if they purely want to get away from tyranny and terror then why not just get to the closest country that will give them safe refuge.

Theres no obligation to go to the closest country. Where would you go, somalia, Uganda or here?

Duzzer · 25-09-2012 11:21PM

Nodin wrote: »

...but theres frauds in every system and the vast majority of applicants don't get in so whats the big deal? Are you saying some that get in are fraudsters?

Theres no obligation to go to the closest country. Where would you go, somalia, Uganda or here?

There's a lot of countries to go to between Africa and Ireland. If your in pure terror then you'll just try and get to a safe refuge. If you are willing to try and go 1000s of miles across Africa and Europe to get to Ireland then there must be a more specific reason than fleeing from persecution.

WindSock · 25-09-2012 11:22PM

I, for one, am sick of these 'Enoch Enoch' jokes.

Nodin · 25-09-2012 11:26PM

Duzzer wrote: »

There's a lot of countries to go to between Africa and Ireland. If your in pure terror then you'll just try and get to a safe refuge. If you are willing to try and go 1000s of miles across Africa and Europe to get to Ireland then there must be a more specific reason than fleeing from persecution.

.....so the chinese who go to America are chancers, the Afghans who go to Britain are chancers.....

And again - unless you're saying that people who are fraudsters are being granted citizenship in large numbers - I don't see what your problem is.

Why can't you answer the question as regards as to where you'd go?

Duzzer · 25-09-2012 11:34PM

Nodin wrote: »

.....so the chinese who go to America are chancers, the Afghans who go to Britain are chancers.....

And again - unless you're saying that people who are fraudsters are being granted citizenship in large numbers - I don't see what your problem is.

Why can't you answer the question as regards as to where you'd go?

I've never had to bail out of Somalia but if I was fleeing in genuine terror I'd try and get to the closest country that would provide food and safe refuge.

profitius · 25-09-2012 11:39PM

Powell was saying what alot of people were thinking but were not allowed say. Fair play to him for standing up for what he believed.

Nodin · 25-09-2012 11:40PM

Duzzer wrote: »

I've never had to bail out of Somalia but if I was fleeing in genuine terror I'd try and get to the closest country that would provide food and safe refuge.

And after that.....? leave your family in the tent/lean-to and be happy with that?

You seem to be dodging the issue of whether or not those granted citizenship are fraudsters or not.

El Weirdo · 25-09-2012 11:42PM

profitius wrote: »

Fair play to him for standing up for what he believed.

I'm going to resist the temptation to Godwin this thread.

Duzzer · 25-09-2012 11:52PM

Nodin wrote: »

And after that.....? leave your family in the tent/lean-to and be happy with that?

You seem to be dodging the issue of whether or not those granted citizenship are fraudsters or not.

Vast majority are Economic migrants as they are arriving here to seek better economic conditions rather than just pure safe haven to get away from immediate danger.

af_thefragile · 25-09-2012 11:55PM

Duzzer wrote: »

Vast majority are Economic migrants as they are arriving here to seek better economic conditions rather than just pure safe haven to get away from immediate danger.

You'ld probably do the same if you were in their place too.
Don't judge, its just human nature to want a better life.
Same reason why the Irish move to USA/Australia etc.

Just because they're a different colour doesn't make them any lesser human.

Nodin · 26-09-2012 12:09AM

Duzzer wrote: »

Vast majority are Economic migrants as they are arriving here to seek better economic conditions rather than just pure safe haven to get away from immediate danger.

But what you really mean is that any African who becomes an Irish citizen is by default "dodgy".

Where To · 26-09-2012 12:14AM

This you OP?

Duzzer · 26-09-2012 12:16AM

Nodin wrote: »

But what you really mean is that any African who becomes an Irish citizen is by default "dodgy".

You call them dodgy! Think about it they have arrived at the far side of Europe from countries with no direct travel links to ireland. We provide good welfare and housing provisions to citizens so why not use your refugee credentials to get these benefits without having to work for it. It would be like us winning the lotto and having a much bigger and better house without having to work!

markesmith · 26-09-2012 12:55AM

In about 30-40 years time we'll be able to have a mature discussion on this.

Not now.

Bannasidhe · 26-09-2012 01:04AM

markesmith wrote: »

In about 30-40 years time we'll be able to have a mature discussion on this.

Not now.

Or when those 'dodgy' Africans coming over here claiming citizenship and takken our houses and dole start winning Olympic medals for 'us'.

RDM_83 again · 26-09-2012 03:04AM

Not really commenting on the the issues raised in the thread but Enoch Powell was not necessarily the card-board cut out racist* people might think and he probably wasn;t talking about literal rivers of blood!
He demanded enquiries into extra judicial killings by the british in what might be considered an actual race war (the Mau Mau in Kenya), was for nuclear disarmament, and this is a quote from him in relation to anti terrorism legislation in the 70's

"The House is engaged on a difficult operation, that is, in haste and under the immediate pressure of indignation on matters which touch the fundamental liberties of the subject; for both haste and anger are ill counsellors, especially when one is legislating for the rights of the subject"

In relation to the thread I do think a states prime duty is to its citizens however this is not an argument for ethnic/cultural purity or racist stereotyping more that the reasonable and logical questions about the social and economic aspects of migration do need to be taken into account and not shouted down.

Not a fan of Powell btw

Fromthetrees · 26-09-2012 04:58AM

Much of what he said in this speech is grounded in truth although his rhetoric is inflammatory and racist.
Unlimited immigration into a country is not a good thing, that's the main point he is making here.
He doesn't actually use the words "rivers of blood" in the speech so it's title is misleading.

Nodin · 26-09-2012 07:29AM

Duzzer wrote: »

You call them dodgy! Think about it they have arrived at the far side of Europe from countries with no direct travel links to ireland. We provide good welfare and housing provisions to citizens so why not use your refugee credentials to get these benefits without having to work for it. It would be like us winning the lotto and having a much bigger and better house without having to work!

Yep, thats where I thought you were going.

geeky · 26-09-2012 07:40AM

Slurryface wrote: »

In retrospect he was quite a visionary.

There are pills you can get for that these days.

Shame there's no cure for being a racist d**khead.

Slurryface · 26-09-2012 08:08AM

geeky wrote: »

There are pills you can get for that these days.

Shame there's no cure for being a racist d**khead.

Personally abusive, post reported.

Slurryface · 26-09-2012 08:12AM

Duzzer wrote: »

You call them dodgy! Think about it they have arrived at the far side of Europe from countries with no direct travel links to ireland. We provide good welfare and housing provisions to citizens so why not use your refugee credentials to get these benefits without having to work for it. It would be like us winning the lotto and having a much bigger and better house without having to work!

I think you are confusing refugees with economic migrants.
Refugees are fleeing for their lives, such as Cambodians in the 1970's or people in Dharfur in recent years.
In the case of genuine refugees we have an obligation in law to assist them.
We have no obligation however to allow economic migrants to remain the state and quite rightly we should root them out, prosecute them , and deport them.

Time to re evaluate enoch powells "rivers of blood" speech

Comments