Gay Marriage/Marriage Equality/End of World?

Actor · 16-09-2012 02:26PM

1ZRed wrote: »

I think your posts are very entertaining and I like reading them, but I don't get why you never try to explain why you feel this way about gay marriage or homosexuality in general without vague statements.
I'm actually very interested to know.

Here's a starter for you:

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19861001_homosexual-persons_en.html

"but when they engage in homosexual activity they confirm within themselves a disordered sexual inclination which is essentially self-indulgent."

Links234 · 16-09-2012 02:30PM

Actor wrote: »

Here's a starter for you:

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19861001_homosexual-persons_en.html

"but when they engage in homosexual activity they confirm within themselves a disordered sexual inclination which is essentially self-indulgent."

Yeah, I'm not so sure what's wrong with self indulgence per se, but maybe I'd feel different if I sat on a golden ****ing throne?

BEN_GOLD%2BSEAT.jpg

1ZRed · 16-09-2012 02:36PM

Actor wrote: »

Here's a starter for you:

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19861001_homosexual-persons_en.html

"but when they engage in homosexual activity they confirm within themselves a disordered sexual inclination which is essentially self-indulgent."

And have you not come to your own conclusions about homosexuality instead of being swayed by whatever the church feeds you?

And further more do you not see anything wrong with that? Treating homosexuality like a disorder and something to be further pushed from normality? This was the root of homophobia, violent anti-gay abuse and the cause of many gay suicides because it wasn't deemed normal or acceptable. Gay people have no choice in the matter, if they did, why would they ever choose to be gay? Nobody would given the chance.

But then of we are all created by God as you believe, why would he ever make homosexuality in the first place and not just that, but to make present in other animals?

And even after I asked you to explain your own personal views on it, you still haven't. You just gave me some letter from the pope addressing homosexuality.

Sin City · 16-09-2012 02:49PM

Actor wrote: »

Here's a starter for you:

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19861001_homosexual-persons_en.html

"but when they engage in homosexual activity they confirm within themselves a disordered sexual inclination which is essentially self-indulgent."

what right do celibate old men who talk to their invisible friend have to say what,sexual orientation or mortality is right or wrong?

how can they say that homosexuality is a disorder when they go around in their robes muttering to an invisible friend who won't talk back to them

Jellicoe · 16-09-2012 02:52PM

Actor wrote: »

Hatred of Christians is par for the course here.

There would be no hatred for 'Christians' if they actually acted and lived as Christians

Sin City · 16-09-2012 02:54PM

surely if there is a god and.he.created man who is to say that homosexuality isn't part of his.divine plan?

MagicMarker · 16-09-2012 03:01PM

Sin City wrote: »

surely if there is a god and.he.created man who is to say that homosexuality isn't part of his.divine plan?

Dude, seriously, is your keyboard broken or something?

ShooterSF · 16-09-2012 03:09PM

To be fair to actor at least he/she is honest as to where their argument against gay marriage comes from. Where others realise arguing for a theocracy is never going to win you the debate and they try and fudge (hehe) the issue with faux concern for the well being of adopted children, Actor straight out admits that they think everyone should be forced to live by Christian values. The best thing would probably be to take Actor up on that debate where our paths actually diverge and not miles down the road.

Edit: Oooo post 6666 (Actors probably gonna think I'm the devil now and will only strengthen their fundamentalism)

Undergod · 16-09-2012 03:26PM

Sarky wrote: »

Must... resist... comment... hnnnnnngh...

Guess I was too subtle... :P

Nodin · 16-09-2012 05:29PM

Actor wrote: »

Here's a starter (.......)

Earlier you stated

Actor wrote:

Yes, sodomy should be illegal. The health service is bursting at the seams as it is without the taxpayer having to deal with the fall-out from bum "sex".

Have you any evidence that such fall out exists to the extent it puts any stress on the health service?

magicbastarder · 16-09-2012 05:39PM

'fall out from bum sex' just suggests imagery which should really be post-watershed.

Nodin · 16-09-2012 05:40PM

magicbastarder wrote: »

'fall out from bum sex' just suggests imagery which should really be post-watershed.

True, I didn't think that one through.

Or maybe it's age.

5uspect · 16-09-2012 06:58PM

MagicMarker wrote: »

Sin City wrote: »

surely if there is a god and.he.created man who is to say that homosexuality isn't part of his.divine plan?

Dude, seriously, is your keyboard broken or something?

My bet is a cheap android phone. Like in iOS, double tapping space is a shortcut for a full stop.

My ****ty HTC Wildfire does this all the time when typing. Usually when it's not lagging or confusing a quick tap for a long tap.

(I'm moving back to Ireland in a few weeks, any suggestions for a new phone?)

I blame the gays tbh, they shouldn't be allowed to code.

Sin City · 16-09-2012 07:17PM

5uspect wrote: »

My bet is a cheap android phone. Like in iOS, double tapping space is a shortcut for a full stop.

My ****ty HTC Wildfire does this all the time when typing. Usually when it's not lagging or confusing a quick tap for a long tap.

(I'm moving back to Ireland in a few weeks, any suggestions for a new phone?)

I blame the gays tbh, they shouldn't be allowed to code.

Was using the Galaxy S2 the screen was a bit sticky after the kids had used it to watch cartoons

Sin City · 16-09-2012 07:18PM

MagicMarker wrote: »

Dude, seriously, is your keyboard broken or something?

As stated in above post

Turtwig · 16-09-2012 07:58PM

Sin City wrote: »

Was using the Galaxy S2 the screen was a bit sticky after the kids had used it to watch cartoons

Then it should have the option of using Swype, try it out it's pretty neat and that spacebar thingy doesn't become a issue. Only problem is a smudged touchscreen.:)

Also, if you don't like it blame the gheys.

fitz0 · 16-09-2012 08:00PM

Jellicoe wrote: »

There would be no hatred for 'Christians' if they actually acted and lived as Christians

What is a real Christian? I've always wondered at this odd 'No True Scotsman' that is usually put forward by atheists. Where is the mythical true Scotsman?

Seems to me that Christianity is what Christians make it.

Sin City · 16-09-2012 09:25PM

Jernal wrote: »

Then it should have the option of using Swype, try it out it's pretty neat and that spacebar thingy doesn't become a issue. Only problem is a smudged touchscreen.:)

Also, if you don't like it blame the gheys.

I am using swype
I think thats the problem lol

Turtwig · 16-09-2012 09:29PM

Sin City wrote: »

I am using swype
I think thats the problem lol

If you're using Swype then you should never be pressing the space the key in the first place. Noob!:p

swampgas · 16-09-2012 09:36PM

Sponge25 wrote: »

I was trying to learn, trying to empathise; A bigot doesn't do that. Anyway; i'm going to bed for the night.

You guys are the bigots for not accepting other people have different feelings on things according to the dictionary!

Actually, Sponge, I think you are probably a genuine bloke who is trying to figure out what the deal is with gay marriage, when your intuition/gut feel/common sense is telling you it's a bad idea. At least you are actually open to other people's ideas and opinions.

I don't think you are intentionally setting out to have bigoted views, however the topic is a sensitive one and you might find that, without realising it, you have expressed views that on reflection, might not match your core principles of kindness/fairness/empathy to other people.

The key point I think is that we have to be careful not to over-trust our own intuition and experience. What seems to be common sense often isn't. One of the problems gay people face is that there is a lot of "received wisdom" out there which appears superficially obvious but is plain wrong.

Some "obvious" facts that get thrown about:
- Gay men are automatically paedophiles
- Children of gay couples will not thrive as well as the children of straight parents
- Being gay is "deviant" or "unnatural"

Personally, I don't consider you to be a bigot - but I think your arguments against gay marriage don't stand up either. There are real bigots who would use the same arguments, unfortunately. I hope you can accept that your own opinions towards gay people might need a little bit of adjustment so they are in keeping with "being a decent bloke" as you are obviously keen to do the right thing.

robindch · 16-09-2012 10:31PM

Folks,

Look, could people try to avoid using the word "bigot"? This may or may not end up going into the forum charter, but my own personal feeling is that as soon as one poster shows up with the term, the discussion is as good as finished.

Cheers,

- robin.

efb · 16-09-2012 10:38PM

Can it be called the Nick Clegg Ammendment? - "Dont use the word bigot"

old hippy · 16-09-2012 11:18PM

Actor wrote: »

Hatred of Christians is par for the course here.

Nobody here hates Christians. We just wish some of you could be a bit more New Testament and all. For all you know, Jesus could have been gay.

Incidentally, you still haven't answered my question - as an actor, do you share your views with your friends and colleagues?

16-09-2012 11:37PM

Hatred of Christians is par for the course here.

We don't hate the sinner, just the sin

Galvasean · 17-09-2012 12:51AM

Fortyniner wrote: »

Satan appears to be winning! Christians in gay shock horror!

You need to read the comments, too. Here's what atheists are up against in the US!

http://exministries.wordpress.com/2012/08/31/parents-paranorman-introduces-children-to-homosexuality/

That article totally spoils the ending. Cheers for that.

Mickeroo · 17-09-2012 01:37AM

Galvasean wrote: »

That article totally spoils the ending. Cheers for that.

Indeed, i was bummed about that too. Was looking forward to that film

MrPudding · 17-09-2012 08:00AM

Fortyniner wrote: »

Satan appears to be winning! Christians in gay shock horror!

You need to read the comments, too. Here's what atheists are up against in the US!

http://exministries.wordpress.com/2012/08/31/parents-paranorman-introduces-children-to-homosexuality/

The comments are depressing, I could only manage about 6.

Jernal wrote: »

If you're using Swype then you should never be pressing the space the key in the first place. Noob!:p

I don't think that is the issue if that was the issue you would see this:

The. Problem. With. Double. Tapping. The. Space. Bar.

We see this:

At.first.i.thought.he.was.doing.it.for.emphasis.

MrP

robindch · 17-09-2012 01:23PM

A British guy produces a play in Uganda about anti-gay prejudice in the country and ends up in jail.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-19624441

BBC wrote:

Uganda frees British producer David Cecil over gay play

British theatre producer David Cecil has been released on bail in Uganda, where he was charged over a play about the condition of gay people. He was arrested last Thursday, accused of "disobeying lawful orders", because the play The River and the Mountain was performed without authorisation. Mr Cecil faces two years in jail if convicted.

The Ugandan parliament is considering legislation aimed at increasing penalties for homosexual acts. The play, which tells the story of a gay businessman killed by his own employees, was performed at two theatres in the Ugandan capital, Kampala, last month.

Uganda's Daily Monitor newspaper reports that the Media Council had warned the play's backers not to perform it until it had been approved. Mr Cecil was freed on bail of 500,000 shillings ($200; £124). He was ordered to surrender his passport and must report back to court on 18 October. His lawyer John Francis Onyango told the AFP news agency that his client was in good health.

Homosexual acts are illegal in Uganda and gay people have faced physical attacks and social rejection. An anti-gay bill imposing life sentences on those convicted of homosexual acts was re-tabled in parliament earlier this year.

It was first introduced in 2009 but never debated - and the MP backing the legislation says a clause proposing the death penalty will be dropped.

Mickeroo · 17-09-2012 01:27PM

It's ridiculous the laws like those in Uganda don't get more exposure over here. It's like the third reich is alive and well and living in Africa :mad:

kiki · 17-09-2012 03:01PM

Well I've similar views to a certain extent with Sponge25.
I do differ though - I think bullying is a poor argument, as bullying is a wrong committed by a third party, and we should not use that as an excuse to modify behaviours of others.

I'm all for gay marriage or marriage between same sex couples, I think same sex couples should be afforded the very same rights and privileges as opposite sex couples (apart from the right to adopt children). Please leave children aside - I don't believe anyone has "the right" to adopt or "right" to be a parent for that matter - its a privilege not a right. Leaving children aside for a moment (if you will bear with me)

There are those who argue about the definition of marriage being a pubic commitment / contract between opposite sex couples and to a large extent most cultures (in recent past and now) this is the accepted definition. I'm willing to accept that maybe we should change the definition of the word - after all, its just a word. Or do we need a new word for same sex couples ? It's my instinct the a new word is probably not the best as that just excludes people. However its not my decision and to a certain extent thats what is happening already - as most people keep referring to same couples in marriage as "gay-marriage". I'm certainly not one to get hung up about the use of a word, as I think that is pointless as people will use language as they want.

I think that the recently introduced legislation is some western countries introducing "civil union" arrangements was an attempt by the respective authorities to have another form of "marriage" without calling it that, without having a public debate about what society agrees is marriage and who is eligible or not. By naming it such as "civil union" they have somehow diminished it - is it perceived as a lessor form of marriage ?

As far as I am concerned if children are involved then I am much slower to change our laws or vary too quickly from what my intuition tells me. Yes I acknowledge intuition can get it wrong - very wrong at times - but its a good starting point. I'm still deciding this issue but my instincts tells me to be conservative until proven otherwise.

Its not really black and white issue as to what family structure is best for bringing up children. There are plenty of terrible hetrosexual parents, and plenty of very good parents who are same sex and would bring up children much better. As there are plenty of single parent families who also do much better. So it more to with the specifics of the parents in question. I think a child needs love and support - be it from one or two (same or different sex) parents - I think that is the critical thing. I'm of the view that all other things being equal (which they are not in real life or in specific examples) two parents are better than one. I'm not saying here that a one parent family cant do a very good job, I'm saying I'm of the view that two parents together have a better chance to provide love, support and the physical needs of children. And in a similar vein I'd say similar about opposite sex couples over same sex couples - my view is that the two sexes give that something extra to a child. Therein lies my intuition and it could be wrong. Id want to see many impartial research projects carried out over a longish time period in our society here to make me change my mind - and I will if convinced. Even if not convinced (or cant be proven) - perhaps the specifics of parent(s) is so different as to make no real difference in outcome to children ?

Irregardless of my intuition we have some strange issues to solve as a society - examples like what happens to a child who loses their mother or father in a same sex couple and where the remaining partner was married but not biological parent ? Perhaps its in best interest of child to remain with spouse ?

The thread was about gay marriage - end of world - it most certainly is not the case - but as a society we need to debate it well and be clear what we are trying to achieve.

Gay Marriage/Marriage Equality/End of World?

Comments