Irish Daily Star to shut?

Lord TSC · 16-09-2012 11:02AM

later12 wrote: »

Most of your post is a repeat of what you've said but ultimately fails to respond to the actual point, in that it's not appropriate to print pictures of a person who is undressed, when they are not aware of that fact. No need to go off on a tangent about whether or not people should be shocked, and so on. The point relates to what the photographer and the publishers have done.

Appropriate or not, to me, does not matter in this debate. It's a bit late to be calling the print media on what is appropriate or not to print, when most of them have been printing pictures of this nature for years. Barely a day goes by that the papers don't have upskirt shots or beach candids of some sort. Crying out about privacy now is redundant, since the papers have been selling millions of copies based on these sorts of images for years.

The photographer was likely given a five figure sum for those pictures; moral or not, he got what most of us would consider a years wage for that one picture. The publisher is a business, not a moral compass; they bought the pictures cause they knew there'd be a profit to be made there. We look to the media for a moral compass and fail to realise that they are in the money making business first and foremost. Sex sells. If the publishers publish the pictures, it's because they know it will shift copies of their publications. Don't blame the media for giving people what they want.

There's many aspects of Irish culture I find inappropriate. Personally, when I want to see nudity, I go to the net which has a far better selection :P I agree that newspapers should not be printing pictures of celebrities caught at their worst moments. But that's me. And you. And several other people on here.

I don't buy newspapers anymore. BUT I just don't blame papers for doing....
1. What they need to to remain relevant.
2. What they need to to appeal to the buying market.
3. What they have been doing for years anyway.

Secondly, on a smaller but nevertheless relevant point, why are you calling her Kate?

Her name is Kate Middleton or whatever her married name is ; I'm not saying this because I think she deserves respect as a member of whatever pantomime she's married to, but simply by observation of her private identity, as anybody else gets. This casual address of calling someone Kate belies the fact that neither do we know the woman, nor is she our property, it's the same sort of mentality that causes incredulity when someone makes the rather ordinary statement that we don't have some God given right to see her naked.

Ah now, come on. I refer to her as Kate so people know who I am refering to. Nothing more, nothing less. These debates would become mind-numbing if we had to give her a full title every time we name her. We're having a casual discussion of a topic absed around a person, and when I say "Kate" in the context of this discussion, people know who I am talking about. No need to start trying to turn this into a topic on how we refer to her really.

wicklowwonder · 16-09-2012 11:04AM

GSF wrote: »

oldmangrub wrote: »

I don't go the whole way with you on it being a British paper. See Cavehill's post and mine above. It's one of the few tabloids that are Irish. (somewhat) I do feel very sorry for the hundred or so Irish staff that will possibly lose their jobs, and I feel sorry for their families.

There is some ambiguity as to who owns it. Desmond says he owns the title name but INM own 50% of the JV. If he refuses to allow the title name to be used, in theory the Star is closed. In practice INM could set up a new title. They could just run the Sunday World on a 7 day a week basis for example, folding the 2 operations together.

INM let the Tribune close and didn't replace it, I wouldn't be surprised if they let the Star go.

GSF · 16-09-2012 11:07AM

wicklowwonder wrote: »

INM let the Tribune close and didn't replace it, I wouldn't be surprised if they let the Star go.

The Star is profitable; the Tribune never made any money

wicklowwonder · 16-09-2012 11:10AM

GSF wrote: »

wicklowwonder wrote: »

INM let the Tribune close and didn't replace it, I wouldn't be surprised if they let the Star go.

The Star is profitable; the Tribune never made any money

True, however a new title may not be profitable, they may feel their money would be better spent on an online publication or platform. I hope we don't lose the Star as I feel it served a purpose but from a business point of view INM will do what they feel will make the most money.

GSF · 16-09-2012 11:16AM

wicklowwonder wrote: »

True, however a new title may not be profitable, they may feel their money would be better spent on an online publication or platform. I hope we don't lose the Star as I feel it served a purpose but from a business point of view INM will do what they feel will make the most money.

well why did Dennis O'Brien buy into INM in the first place then? It wasnt to make money

wicklowwonder · 16-09-2012 11:18AM

GSF wrote: »

wicklowwonder wrote: »

True, however a new title may not be profitable, they may feel their money would be better spent on an online publication or platform. I hope we don't lose the Star as I feel it served a purpose but from a business point of view INM will do what they feel will make the most money.

well why did Dennis O'Brien buy into INM in the first place then? It wasnt to make money

I don't think DOB is interested in the Star.... It was the Indo and Sam Smyth he wanted I think.

oldmangrub · 16-09-2012 11:26AM

Hopefully they can successfully rebrand and any gutter press tendancies will be dispelled. Maybe this is different in their eyes than printing topless pics of Lady Gaga etc because they're trying to write about controversial pics and the pics themselves are relevant. I didn't get that from Michael O'Kane's comments though. And it would be a woeful excuse anyway.

I suppose the staff are going to have a fair amount of extra work on their hands over the next couple of days if they're denied access to the British copy.
I don't think ordinary staff will know their fate until Tuesday at the earliest.
I hope the British owners can't claim breach of contract or anything like that that would impact on severance packages.

A very stressful position to be in for the staff. I hate people losing jobs in this climate. The best of luck to them.

later12 · 16-09-2012 11:29AM

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

I just don't blame papers for doing....
1. What they need to to remain relevant.

You're ignoring the fact that the media outlets, like no other private enterprises, themselves frame public opinion to begin with; particularly, in terms of this sort of vulgar reporting, perpetuating what has been termed 'narcotizing dysfunction'.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 16-09-2012 11:32AM

Fungus wrote: »

The closure of Independent Star LTD has had nothing to do with Kate's tits, and everything to do with financials. It was an opportunistic decision to do the inevitable.

Circulation:

The Irish Daily Star have lost 14% of their customers year on year. This follows years of heavy losses.

Their circulation is down at 75K from over 100K a few years ago.

Declining Profits:

Profits were down 10% in the last set of accounts from 2010. They have still not published their 2011 accounts which cannot be a good sign.

IN&M and N&S are in serious trouble:

IN&M and N&S own Independent Star LTD.

IN&M are balance sheet insolvent.

N&S have suffered massive declines in their magazines over the last year. Their flagship OK Magazine is down a whopping 25% year on year. . In fact all of N&S's publications suffered massive declines.

The whole Intraweb & tablet thing is only going to make things worse :

Smartphones are booming. Tablets are booming. Twitter is booming. The way we consume news is changing. All newspapers are on a terminal decline slope. There was no long term future for the Irish Daily Star.

In a nutshell, N&S used Kate as a cover story for a company that was going nowhere and needed to be closed.

I argue that it's because of their printing stories like this that they are losing interested readers and have to close down.

There is hope.

oldmangrub · 16-09-2012 11:56AM

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

I argue that it's because of their printing stories like this that they are losing interested readers and have to close down.

There is hope.

They don't usually print stories like this. I mean of the topless variety.
They don't even do the page three thing.

There is hope that they won't have to close down and can rebrand.

oldmangrub · 16-09-2012 12:03PM

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/irish-star-future-under-threat-from-kate-middleton-topless-shots-3230143.html

The quotes from Irish owners don't seem too pessimistic at least.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 16-09-2012 12:09PM

oldmangrub wrote: »

They don't usually print stories like this. I mean of the topless variety.
They don't even do the page three thing.

There is hope that they won't have to close down and can rebrand.

I meant regarding the over-hypeing of people who generally contribute little or nothing worthwhile to society rather than the specific toplessness.

I fail to see how rebranding it can be a good thing?

16-09-2012 12:17PM

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

I argue that it's because of their printing stories like this that they are losing interested readers and have to close down.

There is hope.

Well if the pile of unsold papers in the local shop yesterday evening was anything to go by, there circulation figures are in real decline!

JTMan · 16-09-2012 12:28PM

GSF wrote: »

The Star is profitable; the Tribune never made any money

Profitable in 2010? You need to look at the bigger picture.

The 2010 accounts for Independent Star LTD displayed accounting profits.

However:
1) Independent Star LTD have not published their 2011 or interim 2012 accounts yet.
2) Independent Star LTD has lost 25% of their sales in recent years and 14% in the last year alone.
3) Independent Star LTD has a massive unfunded pension deficit.
4) Independent Star LTD has massive bank debts.
5) Independent Star LTD has not real digital sales or even digital strategy.
6) The parent companies are in serious trouble. IN&M are balance sheet insolvent.
7) The industry is in terminal decline.
8) They shut Star on Sunday due to poor performance.
9) There is known to be disputes between the owners.

Independent Star LTD is a total basket case with no future.

oldmangrub · 16-09-2012 12:31PM

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

I meant regarding the over-hypeing of people who generally contribute little or nothing worthwhile to society rather than the specific toplessness.

I fail to see how rebranding it can be a good thing?

The Star generate most of their sales through sports, not celebrity news. If they fall out of the tabloid market, it won't make that market any better for it.
And newspapers are losing circulation because of the interent not because people don't enjoy celebrity gossip.

If it closes down, Mr.Desmond hypocrite whose press standards are even more questionable than that of the Irish daily star will have succeeded in not pissing off his British readership and might even increase profits. That's the only good thing about it closing down. But he's doing alright for himself so I'm not overly concerned for him.

What I am concerned about is the staff of the newspaper. If you consider the journalists who will lose their jobs, you might succeed in seeing rebranding as a good thing. Nothing wrong with justifying your view based on human empathy. That's why these pics were wrong in the first place. A little bit of empathy wouldn't go amiss.

Aidric · 16-09-2012 12:31PM

wicklowwonder wrote: »

I hope we don't lose the Star as I feel it served a purpose but from a business point of view INM will do what they feel will make the most money.

Could you expand on this point please?

Aidric · 16-09-2012 12:33PM

oldmangrub wrote: »

If it closes down, Mr.Desmond hypocrite whose press standards are even more questionable than that of the Irish daily star will have succeeded in not pissing off his British readership and might even increase profits. That's the only good thing about it closing down. But he's doing alright for himself so I'm not overly concerned for him.

Indeed, I think you've nailed it here. This is a move to appease his core market.

MakeEmLaugh · 16-09-2012 12:47PM

What about the 70 journalism jobs that will be lost if the Irish Daily Star closes? Journalism is an extraordinarily difficult field in which to sustain a career. It is deeply unfair that these 70 individuals be thrown out on their behinds because of one person's decision to print these photos.

The Irish Daily Star has been publishing topless photos of celebrities for years. If it was acceptable to print them then, why is it unacceptable to print them now? This is an enormous double standard, and hundreds of people's lives - not just the journalists but their family members - will be negatively effected if the paper is pressured into shutting down.

purple'n'gold · 16-09-2012 12:49PM

The sooner this obnoxious rag is closed down the better.

IRE60 · 16-09-2012 12:57PM

Desmond gets about €4m from the joint venture, which is small change in terms of his finances. His main interest are in the UK where he nets a huge amount of cash– and much of this coming from the Daily Express, Sunday Express and Hello – all of which are massively pro-royal.

The sabre-rattling that he’ll close the paper is utter sh1te. He has a joint venture agreement with a multiple of profits buy-out clause i.e. big money to buy out. I’d say that there is no morality clause in the agreement - certainly not covering this scenario.

On the other hand he has huge operational control in terms of the copy supplied and that could be a real issue.
I rant about it here

oldmangrub · 16-09-2012 01:00PM

MakeEmLaugh wrote: »

What about the 70 journalism jobs that will be lost if the Irish Daily Star closes? Journalism is an extraordinarily difficult field in which to sustain a career. It is deeply unfair that these 70 individuals be thrown out on their behinds because of one person's decision to print these photos.

The Irish Daily Star has been publishing topless photos of celebrities for years. If it was acceptable to print them then, why is it unacceptable to print them now? This is an enormous double standard, and hundreds of people's lives - not just the journalists but their family members - will be negatively effected if the paper is pressured into shutting down.

I agree with your sentiment but the Irish Daily Star actually isn't a tabloid that has been publishing topless photos of celebrities for years. They're generally a story-based (however sensationalist) tabloid. They're not one of the worst ones at all. The pics went with the story. There's no way they should have been published or their trashiness can be justified and the editor and Colleran have put their staff in an awful position.

Richard Hillman · 16-09-2012 01:01PM

There seems to be a lot of sympathy for the journalists at the paper. Some of them I am sure do great work but a lot of them are horrid just like the editor. Its not just the editor making up and exaggerating the stories, he needs his journalists to write the trash. I would imagine the journalists at the papers share the same beliefs as he does. I feel for the ones that genuinely report news; sports reporters, music guides, court reporters etc but not for the ones that exaggerate things to make news or blatantly make it up. The Star is well known for its great coverage of underage and junior football, it will be a sad loss in that aspect.

Ireland will be a better place without this rag and hopefully the likes of the Sun, the Herald and the Mirror fall like the Star.

oldmangrub · 16-09-2012 01:10PM

Richard Hillman wrote: »

There seems to be a lot of sympathy for the journalists at the paper. Some of them I am sure do great work but a lot of them are rats just like the editor. Its not just the editor making up and exaggerating the stories, he needs his journalists to write the trash. I would imagine the journalists at the papers share the same beliefs as he does.

Ireland will be a better place without this rag and hopefully the likes of the Sun, the Herald and the Mirror fall like the Star.

A lot of them are rats?
They're people who did journalism in college and went on to apply for jobs in that field.

Sympathy is normal. Having empathy for people and being able to imagine the distress they're in is normal and healthy. Assuming that other people have the same right to financial security and as stress-free existence as possible as yourself is healthy and to be expected.

Presuming people are "rats" and somehow morally inferior to yourself is pretty unhealthy and also hilarious considering that you were the one attributing Nazi undertones to the Star's logo two pages back.

Biggins · 16-09-2012 01:13PM

From The Times (England) presently:

Northern and Shell, the British 50% shareholder in the Irish Daily Star newspaper, has announced it is “taking immediate steps to close down the joint venture” after yesterday’s decision by the newspaper’s Dublin-based management to publish photographs of Kate Middleton, the Duchess of Cambridge, sunbathing topless.

We have not heard the end of the photo fiasco itself:

Chi magazine in Italy has said it plans to publish a 26-page photo special using the topless photos of the duchess. The magazine is owned by the family of Silvio Berlusconi, the former Italian prime minister, who also owns Closer. Alfonso Signorini, Chi’s editor, said he would publish 50 of the 200 photos because it was a “journalistic scoop”.

http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/ireland/article1127448.ece

200 Photos?

MORE than 200 pictures were taken of the Duchess of Cambridge sunbathing topless, it emerged yesterday, as the royal couple struggled to prevent their publication around the world.

In a day when the photographs proliferated on internet websites, Chi magazine in Italy announced it would publish a 26-page special edition tomorrow featuring 50 images of the 200 in its possession.

http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/uk_news/National/royalwedding/article1127303.ece

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 16-09-2012 01:14PM

oldmangrub wrote: »

The Star generate most of their sales through sports, not celebrity news. If they fall out of the tabloid market, it won't make that market any better for it.
And newspapers are losing circulation because of the interent not because people don't enjoy celebrity gossip.

What I am concerned about is the staff of the newspaper. If you consider the journalists who will lose their jobs, you might succeed in seeing rebranding as a good thing. Nothing wrong with justifying your view based on human empathy. That's why these pics were wrong in the first place. A little bit of empathy wouldn't go amiss.

If that's the case, then why not simply rebrand as a sports paper?Years ago, when I last looked at it, only about 25% of it was sport related (unless a premiership footballer had been caught in bed with someone he shouldn't have).

As regards the journalists - it's a face of life. Businesses that don't do well close down and people lose jobs. Those that are good will find employment elsewhere. Those that aren't, won't and it'll be a good thing all round.

wicklowwonder wrote: »

I hope we don't lose the Star as I feel it served a purpose but from a business point of view INM will do what they feel will make the most money.

Seriously...??

Richard Hillman wrote: »

There seems to be a lot of sympathy for the journalists at the paper. Some of them I am sure do great work but a lot of them are rats just like the editor. Its not just the editor making up and exaggerating the stories, he needs his journalists to write the trash. I would imagine the journalists at the papers share the same beliefs as he does.

Ireland will be a better place without this rag and hopefully the likes of the Sun, the Herald and the Mirror fall like the Star.

Journalists, see above. I think you're being a bit unfair, though.

Last line - bingo.

oldmangrub · 16-09-2012 01:44PM

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

If that's the case, then why not simply rebrand as a sports paper?Years ago, when I last looked at it, only about 25% of it was sport related (unless a premiership footballer had been caught in bed with someone he shouldn't have).

As regards the journalists - it's a face of life. Businesses that don't do well close down and people lose jobs. Those that are good will find employment elsewhere. Those that aren't, won't and it'll be a good thing all round.

They do brand themselves as a sports paper in the most part. And the majority of their readership chose it because of the sports coverage in comparison to other tabloids. They have to tell other news stories too; they are a newspaper; and they tell them in an accessible and sensationalist way because that's what their readership wants. There's only one national newspaper that I consider completely non-tabloid now despite many of them not classing themselves as tabloid. That's what people are buying, and seventy unemployed staff are not going to redress this. The Star shutting down would only increase profits for other tabloids, it won't change practises.

The Star is doing well. It's making a profit that most businesses would envy. Not so much greedy media moguls who have other profits to protect elsewhere. If all those that find employment in a field are "good" and all those that don't are not good, then, seeing as all the staff members in the Star have managed to find employment, they all deserve a job. I don't share this logic but I don't really want to see another seventy people on the dole either.

Three or four maximum will be able to get a job in the Sun. The rest will be unemployed. No other papers are hiring.

What we should hope for is a rebranding of some form.

And the Star obviously has a purpose. People buy it. People enjoy it. It circulates money in the Irish economy. It provides Irish people with jobs. It keep people informed on world affairs and sporting achievements. It makes a profit.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 16-09-2012 02:15PM

oldmangrub wrote: »

They do brand themselves as a sports paper in the most part. And the majority of their readership chose it because of the sports coverage in comparison to other tabloids. They have to tell other news stories too; they are a newspaper; and they tell them in an accessible and sensationalist way because that's what their readership wants. There's only one national newspaper that I consider completely non-tabloid now despite many of them not classing themselves as tabloid. That's what people are buying, and seventy unemployed staff are not going to redress this. The Star shutting down would only increase profits for other tabloids, it won't change practises.

Either it's a dying readership or they've got it wrong judging by the readership figures being bandied about here.

The Star is doing well. It's making a profit that most businesses would envy. Not so much greedy media moguls who have other profits to protect elsewhere. If all those that find employment in a field are "good" and all those that don't are not good, then, seeing as all the staff members in the Star have managed to find employment, they all deserve a job. I don't share this logic but I don't really want to see another seventy people on the dole either.

Three or four maximum will be able to get a job in the Sun. The rest will be unemployed. No other papers are hiring.

What we should hope for is a rebranding of some form.

And the Star obviously has a purpose. People buy it. People enjoy it. It circulates money in the Irish economy. It provides Irish people with jobs. It keep people informed on world affairs and sporting achievements. It makes a profit.

If only three or four of them can get jobs and even then only with the S*n, I'd argue the quality of jounalism isn't that high to begin with.

I'd go for rebranding if it moved away from topless royal pictures and at least tried to present itself in soem way seriously. If, as you say, people have no interest in real news and intelligent journalism, the country is facing a bigger problem.

JonathanAnon · 16-09-2012 02:55PM

Dont think Michael O'Kane did the paper any favour with his self righteous performances on the radio during the week... If it was a picture of his missus or his daughter in the paper, I'm sure he'd change his tune..

oldmangrub · 16-09-2012 02:56PM

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Either it's a dying readership or they've got it wrong judging by the readership figures being bandied about here.

If only three or four of them can get jobs and even then only with the S*n, I'd argue the quality of jounalism isn't that high to begin with.

I'd go for rebranding if it moved away from topless royal pictures and at least tried to present itself in soem way seriously. If, as you say, people have no interest in real news and intelligent journalism, the country is facing a bigger problem.

The readership of all newspapers are seeing this decline, tabloid and non-tabloid. Because of this, newspapers aren't hiring. Recent graduates are not unemployed due to incompetence, but because there are no jobs available. This is mimicked in other sectors as well, not just journalism. The decline in newspaper-circulation was going to take place even without the recession and the recesssion has made the situation worse.
Journalists don't work in tabloids because the quality of their journalism isn't that high. They write to their employers' practises. They're guidelines they have to follow. They're perfectly qualified to write spreadsheet or tabloid articles alike.
I never said people have no interest in real news and intelligent journalism. Where did you get that from? I don't presume people who read tabloids are less intelligent than myself. I have female friends who love reading gossip mags and would beat me on any debate if they didn't prefer reading about that man with the dimples in their spare time.

Jellicoe · 16-09-2012 02:58PM

There's bound to be an opening for a decent middle of the road national newspaper in Ireland, that does't have the sleaze of the star and sunday world, and the corrupt cronie lies and propaganda of the 'independent'

Irish Daily Star to shut?

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