Dublin Used to Have the Best Mass Transit System in the World

OurLadyofKnock · 16-09-2012 11:34AM #1

It was called the Dublin United Tramway Company. The city was criss-crossed in state of the art electric trams which were powered by the most modern power station of its time out in Pidgeon House.

I am reading a book called Through Streets Broad and Narrow which is now sadly out of print. The trams offered late night services, zonal fare structure with integrated ticketing - something we still do not properly have in 2012. One of the reasons for their demise was they could not afford to convert their ticketing machines to bi-lingual as they used a symbol coded system. They also ran late night freight trains with electric locos which hauled everything from coal to rubbish.

check out the system in 1922. You could travel from Dalkey to Howth Head and from Ballymun Road to Lucan all by tram.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8c/Dublin_1922-23_Map_Suburbs_MatureTrams_wFaresTimes_Trains_EarlyBus_Canals_pub.png/795px-Dublin_1922-23_Map_Suburbs_MatureTrams_wFaresTimes_Trains_EarlyBus_Canals_pub.png

Apparently the system was the pride of Dublin until something called Córas Iompair Éireann and replaced it with crap buses which ran when the unions felt like it.

humbert · 16-09-2012 11:39AM

I think people know the most of that, what's to discuss?

later12 · 16-09-2012 11:39AM

I wasn't.

That's mad. Look how extensive that network was compared to today.

Iarnrod Eireann ; take heed!

OurLadyofKnock · 16-09-2012 11:39AM

humbert wrote: »

I think people know the most of that, what's to discuss?

I don't think a lot of people do know this to be honest.

The_Kew_Tour · 16-09-2012 11:41AM

Didnt know that!

This could be good thread, which is rare in AH

OurLadyofKnock · 16-09-2012 11:44AM

I love the way the Howth tram line (which belonged to the Great Northern Railway) doubles back on itself to INTERGRATE with the DUT trams and Commuter Rail system at Sutton. Something you see in the continent all the time. Logical and user friendly.

3ndahalfof6 · 16-09-2012 11:46AM

fianna fail, is there nothing they have not destroyed.

Dempsey · 16-09-2012 11:46AM

Didnt know much about the tram system in Dublin, should never have been ripped up. Short sighted Ireland at its best though!

mikemac1 · 16-09-2012 11:48AM

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/exhibition/dublin/transport/9.jpg

Tram timetable

There were colourful symbols as a lot of the locals were illiterate

Lots of info on the census site

OurLadyofKnock · 16-09-2012 11:48AM

3ndahalfof6 wrote: »

fianna fail, is there nothing they have not destroyed.

To be fair it was Fine Gael which tried to shut down the entire rail network including the DART in 1987 when they cut off investment.

Imagine they had of done this and the Celtic Tiger came along with no no DART and no Commuter Rail system around Dublin. Mayhem.

The problem in this country is we have politicians, media and economists who have this uniquely insane Irish notion that public trainsport exists to make a profit for the Department of Finance. This is why they RAISE fares when people stop using it.

If you were to read the editorials against the building of DART in the early 1980's you would laugh. They were saying Dublin would have New York style Subway gangs having gun battles under the city centre. Staggering stuff to read now - yet not much has changed.

later12 · 16-09-2012 11:49AM

3ndahalfof6 wrote: »

fianna fail, is there nothing they have not destroyed.

Fine Gael were in Government when the first tram route was cancelled, and oversaw the last closure as well.

That's not a FG bashing excercise, I'm just pointing out that this ridiculous desire to blame FF for everything really must end somewhere.

Cee-Jay-Cee · 16-09-2012 11:50AM

So they had a transit system to take people to mass. Just goes to show how much influence the catolicks had on the country.

Iwannahurl · 16-09-2012 11:58AM

It took this country's authorities six decades or so to reinvent the tram.

In the meantime, some citizens actually began to believe that the streets of Dublin (even O'Connell Street) were primarily designed for cars.

I remember seeing this photo years ago. The last Dublin tram needed a Garda escort to prevent souvenir hunters from stripping it.

http://www.askaboutireland.ie/reading-room/environment-geography/transport/20th-century-transport-in/dublin-trams-1/

OurLadyofKnock · 16-09-2012 12:00PM

Iwannahurl wrote: »

It took this country's authorities six decades or so to reinvent the tram.

In the meantime, some citizens actually began to believe that the streets of Dublin (even O'Connell Street) were designed for cars.

I remember seeing this photo years ago. The last Dublin tram needed a Garda escort to prevent souvenir hunters from stripping it.

http://www.askaboutireland.ie/reading-room/environment-geography/transport/20th-century-transport-in/dublin-trams-1/

If you can dig it out there is a Dublin Transport Plan from the 1930's which demanded the closing of all trams and rail lines in the city and turning O'Connell Street into a runway and the GPO into an airport terminal. Not kidding.

mikemac1 · 16-09-2012 12:03PM

I seem to remember plans from the late seventies or maybe early eighties about filling in the Royal and Grand canals in Dublin and turning them into roads.

I don't know the exact date but CJ Haughey was quoted on it, I forget what he wanted to do

So very recent in the scheme of things

I'm sure you'd find plans if anyone wanted to search

mikemac1 · 16-09-2012 12:04PM

OurLadyofKnock wrote: »

If you can dig it out there is a Dublin Transport Plan from the 1930's which demanded the closing of all trams and rail lines in the city and turning O'Connell Street into a runway and the GPO into an airport terminal. Not kidding.

Sure Collinstown and Baldonnel already existed

Pure madness :pac:

namloc1980 · 16-09-2012 12:20PM

The problem was that by the 1930's and 40's the Dublin trams were badly in need of investment and upgrade. Coupled with that the expanding Dublin suburbs outside the reach of the tram system were now being serviced by bus which was cheaper to run, faster and much more flexible than trams. The perception at the time was that trams were an outdated technology and the bus was the future. The same thing happened in Cork, which also had an extensive tram system and suburban railway network until most of it was shut down by the 1940's.

Larianne · 16-09-2012 12:35PM

mikemac1 wrote: »

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/exhibition/dublin/transport/9.jpg

Tram timetable

There were colourful symbols as a lot of the locals were illiterate

Lots of info on the census site

When was this from? Must show my Dad and see if he remembers it.

mikemac1 · 16-09-2012 12:40PM

1911

WhimSock · 16-09-2012 12:45PM

This interests me. I found out while researching the family tree that my great grandpappy was a tram driver.

talla10 · 16-09-2012 12:50PM

3ndahalfof6 wrote: »

fianna fail, is there nothing they have not destroyed.

A lot done, more to do

OurLadyofKnock · 16-09-2012 12:52PM

WhimSock wrote: »

This interests me. I found out while researching the family tree that my great grandpappy was a tram driver.

They were one of the largest employers in the city. They also employed many Jewish immigrants from Eastern Europe.

Dublin's image of a wee backward catholic town really only came about from the 1920's on. Before that was just like many cities in Europe.

OurLadyofKnock · 16-09-2012 12:55PM

mikemac1 wrote: »

1911

Over 100 years later and we are still not even close to what the DUT offered back then.

ScumLord · 16-09-2012 12:56PM

Sure the country had an extensive national rail network too but it was shut down because.... **** trains?

mikemac1 · 16-09-2012 01:01PM

Train tunnel through Galway too, it partly exists,

You can see the entrance if you walk the pathway to Renmore

Through Fairgreen, under Bohermore, along the embankment at Woodquay and then over the Corrib
Spectacular!

All long gone

Lots of photos in the Park House Hotel if you ever walk to drop in

3ndahalfof6 · 16-09-2012 01:11PM

ScumLord wrote: »

Sure the country had an extensive national rail network too but it was shut down because.... **** trains?

This is true, I remember walking them when I was a youngster, great hunting ground (miles of them), then they took most of the bridges down, they are all overgrown now, you would never know they existed.

GerM · 16-09-2012 01:11PM

ScumLord wrote: »

Sure the country had an extensive national rail network too but it was shut down because.... **** trains?

Because it was not economically viable. Every country shut down their rail networks outside major lines once paved roads came to pass and Ireland was no different in the 1960s and 1970s.

mike65 · 16-09-2012 01:15PM

I'll throw in this incendiary thought - under "da Brits" public transport was well funded and managed (within the context of the era), once independence has been achieved no money was spent as Dev was happy to rule over a moribund economy behind high tariff walls. Everything gradually got ran down to the point where scraping whole systems was inevitable and the bumpy road given free reign, throw in planning that was based on low grade geographic spread rather than quality high density living and a coherent public transport system Dublin was doomed.

OurLadyofKnock · 16-09-2012 01:16PM

GerM wrote: »

Because it was not economically viable. Every country shut down their rail networks outside major lines once paved roads came to pass and Ireland was no different in the 1960s and 1970s.

Some sucessful lines were closed - even after decades of CIE doing their best to kill off the passenger numbers. The West Cork, Harcourt Street and Waterford and Tramore should never have been closed. Neither should the Athlone and Millingar line as it integrated the entire systems and provided a fast route from Dublin to Galway with direct train services from Connolly under the Phoenix Park Tunnel - compare to the current route which practically enters Munster before swinging back up to Galway. The old direct line from Clonsilla to Navan should of remained too.

Just about all the other should of been now closed as many were badly built to begin with.

We the makings of a fantastic rail system in 1964 as all nearly the lines which remained opened were the right ones. But guess what... they still kept wrecking them and stll are.

snubbleste · 16-09-2012 01:18PM

Sure Dublin was the second city in the globe spanning Empire at the time. It was only fitting that it had such a tram system. Now it's just a backwater in a quasi euro-federal state.

suicide_circus · 16-09-2012 01:20PM

Foresight and planning has been and remains the greatest obstacle to progress on this island.

Dublin Used to Have the Best Mass Transit System in the World

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