How much do you need to earn?

OnTheCounter · 14-09-2012 12:01AM #1

Firstly I'm not talking about a 22 year old single person whose biggest expense after rent is Saturday night.

These days how much does a young middle class family (2 adults, 2 children and a dog) need to earn annually after tax to get by?

Assuming these days both parents are working these are the costs faced by most assuming 1 kid in primary school and another in a creche:

Food
Mortage
Car payments X2
Creche costs
School related expenses
ESB
Gas/Oil
10 day foreign holiday
Health insurance X4
Car insurance X2
Petrol (unbelieveably expensive these days)
House insurance
Put aside a few euros for retirement/rainy day
Travel in Ireland
Christmas/Birthdays
House maintaince and appliances
Occasional entertainment costs
Clothes
Computer
Kids activities
Friends weddings/hotel/present
Ect

Basically to have a reasonable standard of living (not mtv cribs standard) but comfortable enough for a husband and wife who both have decent jobs how much do you need to earn? It might be good to give a breakdown of each individual cost to see where the expenses lie.

In an era of decreasing salaries, increasing costs and getting the bejaysus taxed out of us can an average family hope to be reasonably comfortable?

Colmustard · 14-09-2012 12:03AM

These days 1 million dollars.

And may inflate to 1 billion dollars

TheBrinch · 14-09-2012 12:05AM

10 day holiday, 2 cars, clothes.... Expectations are a bit high

OnTheCounter · 14-09-2012 12:06AM

Colmustard wrote: »

These days 1 million dollars.

And may inflate to 1 billion dollars

its a serious question that we all have to deal with sooner or later. It would be good to have a proper discussion to get some realastic figures.

El Weirdo · 14-09-2012 12:07AM

Quite a few of them items in your list are rather unnecessary to "get by".

monkeysnapper · 14-09-2012 12:09AM

OnTheCounter wrote: »

its a serious question .

then don't post it in the after hours thread

OnTheCounter · 14-09-2012 12:10AM

TheBrinch wrote: »

10 day holiday, 2 cars, clothes.... Expectations are a bit high

Im not talking about having 2 new BMWs in the driveway, just a couple of motors to bring the kids to school, get to work, go to the supermarket, ect.

A 10 day holiday is not high expectations for a family where both parents are in full time skilled work. Again its not first class flights, 5 star hotels and the best of restaurants Im talking about.

girl in the striped socks · 14-09-2012 12:12AM

It all depends on the mortgage you have, size house, part of the country you live in etc.
From the list you gave there's not a huge amount of people who would be able to afford some of the things you mentioned. 10day foreign holiday? I've no kids but I couldn't afford that at the minute.
It seems that whenever I'm flush with money something unexpected comes along that cleans me out. Hit a pothole & wreck an alloy & tracking, dog eats something he shouldn't have & it's off to the vets, oil gets stolen etc. the list can go on.

starbelgrade · 14-09-2012 12:12AM

OnTheCounter wrote: »

It might be good to give a breakdown of each individual cost to see where the expenses lie.

How depressing. "Let's see what people spend", followed by pages of posts ripping them apart saying stuff like "I can't believe you spent €5k on a holiday and say that you can't afford child care".

im invisible · 14-09-2012 12:13AM

'bout three fiddy?

Tom_Cruise · 14-09-2012 12:13AM

50k after tax would be alot for a family of 4 and would provide a good standard of living if spent correctly.

Micky Dolenz · 14-09-2012 12:17AM

Too many variables to be fair.

Where does this family live?
Have they access to public transport?
Are schools within walking distance?
Where is the 10 day foreign holiday?
Where would they travel in Ireland?
What sky package have they?
etc
etc
etc

eth0 · 14-09-2012 12:18AM

Food

Grow yer own, guerilla gardening, maoam bars, lidl, tins of baked beans

Mortage

To hell with that, buy that shack in Limerick for 10k and renovate it using the contents of a skip

Car payments X2

1x Skoda Fabia + 1x Peugeot 106 <= 2,000e

Creche costs

No cousin to look after them?

School related expenses

50c for a set of lunchboxes from the boot sale + second hand books

ESB

Off the grid?

Gas/Oil

28e for a drum of calor, should last months if you only use it to cook

10 day foreign holiday

Car to cardiff or a ryanair special. Stay in a hostel

Health insurance X4

Get the parish priest to ask God nicely to prevent you from getting sick

Car insurance X2

Cars I mentioned do 0-60 in 60 seconds so won't be much

Petrol (unbelieveably expensive these days)

I think it might be possible to convert a car to run off of propane cylinders that people leave outside their house at night.

House insurance

It's worth nothing, so why bother insuring it?

Put aside a few euros for retirement/rainy day

Find a few abandoned shopping trolleys. Walk around town with your head down

Travel in Ireland

Aran Islands + 2 days good weather + free travel pass + hostel

Christmas/Birthdays

Forest->Christmas tree

House maintaince and appliances

Jump into a skip, repair broken items you find.

Occasional entertainment costs

Old TV + no license

Clothes

Charity shop + needle and thread

Computer

From scrap, pringles can for wifi antenna and do a bit of WPA2 cracking.

Kids activities

Exercise bike tied to old car alternator to generate electricity

Friends weddings/hotel/present

Steal from less-worthy friends you were getting rid of anyway

Ect

To hell with that

OnTheCounter · 14-09-2012 12:18AM

Tom_Cruise wrote: »

50k after tax would be alot for a family of 4 and would provide a good standard of living if spent correctly.

Im wondering if that is the standard to have a reasonable standard of living. That is the figure I had in mind when I started the thread.

FANTAPANTS · 14-09-2012 12:21AM

we are on 40 grand after tax and its tough after this budget id say we are ****ed

OnTheCounter · 14-09-2012 12:21AM

El Weirdo wrote: »

Quite a few of them items in your list are rather unnecessary to "get by".

im not talking about getting rich but im not talking about being down to your last e10 on payday either.

humbert · 14-09-2012 12:21AM

I don't know but I assume two people on anything at or above the average industrial wage could manage that, assuming house/cars are not fancy.

What the OP is describing is 'get by' in the middle class sense, which is fair enough.

OnTheCounter · 14-09-2012 12:23AM

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Too many variables to be fair.

Where does this family live?
Have they access to public transport?
Are schools within walking distance?
Where is the 10 day foreign holiday?
Where would they travel in Ireland?
What sky package have they?
etc
etc
etc

im not talking about a specific family.

im talking about the average middle class working family.

Tom_Cruise · 14-09-2012 12:24AM

OnTheCounter wrote: »

Im wondering if that is the standard to have a reasonable standard of living. That is the figure I had in mind when I started the thread.

As stated above,its a near impossible question to answer as there are so many variables.When you take each variable into account they could easily add another few thousand to the amount needed to have a reasonable standard of living.

50k or so a year after tax is a good base amount to start of with and then work from there i reckon,but everyone spends money in different ways.

Micky Dolenz · 14-09-2012 12:26AM

OnTheCounter wrote: »

im not talking about a specific family.

im talking about the average middle class working family.

Stupid question.

A middle class family in Limerick city, where one or both parents work in the city will need less then a middle class family in Bray, where the parents work in Dublin.

So to answer your question, between 35k and 60k.

breadmonster · 14-09-2012 12:28AM

earn muahahaha just go on the scratch and do a few nixers like everyone else

A_Sober_Paddy · 14-09-2012 12:28AM

Hear this question a lot, and its often followed by so rubbish about tax and the government

Itend to hear it from people who bought houses, to which I say "didn't need to buy a house" normally followed by aggressively explained reasons for why they need to buy a house...most of thee people are crippled with mortgage repayments through their poor financial management.

Next up is Kids and the cost to sent them to school...well then don't have kids if you can't afford them, before you have kids get a savings fund together if you can't afford to do that, then you can't afford to have kids.

And to people who say, that during the good times, you had the money well everything is a cycle and people really should have educated themselves, a simple way to put it, everything that goes up must come back down to ground...

In the OP list, there are many things that from the good times...

Who needs two cars, 10 days foreign holiday, xmas & birthdays(set limits and budget) creche cost(If you can't afford them, then either one parent stop working or if that's not possible because of your career then kids should not have been had) & Weddings(if they are too expensive, don't go and explain that things are tight)

I've just come off the dole, where I was able to get by on €144 a week and in my job I'm earning a little less than my dole(still waiting to get casual dole sorted).

People who complain or struggle to get by do so because of poor planning in the majority of cases...People who are struggling financially as a result to illness then that's the governments fault as everyone should be entitled to(and receive it) a good standard of free medical care in this country

humbert · 14-09-2012 12:29AM

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Stupid question.

A middle class family in Limerick city, where one or both parents work in the city will need less then a middle class family in Bray, where the parents work in Dublin.

So to answer your question, between 35k and 60k.

But if you answer the question based on your experience in your area, then other people do the same, we all get a pretty good idea. Or you can whinge about the vagaries of the question.

Colmustard · 14-09-2012 12:30AM

Its not the list of regular expenses that break you its the surprises, a car crash, damage to your property, illness, a layoff, a paycut, maintenance needed.

But somehow you manage and cope.

I would say 60, 50 for regular spending and 5 to 10 for saving.

FANTAPANTS · 14-09-2012 12:31AM

work in army missus works in liberty after all bills are paid we have feck all to go on with levies and other stupid taxes... i really im worried about this next budget as i think we are going to go broke

Micky Dolenz · 14-09-2012 12:32AM

humbert wrote: »

But if you answer the question based on your experience in your area, then other people do the same, we all get a pretty good idea. Or you can whinge about the vagaries of the question.

Why in Gods name would people want/need to reveal personal details here?

The question is deeply flawed, pointing that out is not whinging.

How much is your mortgage, spending costs btw?

humbert · 14-09-2012 12:35AM

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Why in Gods name would people want/need to reveal personal details here?

The question is deeply flawed, pointing that out is not whinging.

How much is your mortgage, spending costs btw?

I don't have a mortgage or any dept or a family or a car. You don't have to say how much you earn or spend but based on what you do earn or spend you could estimate in general in your area what you it take to satisfy the OPs requirements (maybe stating any assumptions you've made wrt a car/mortgage). Simple.

Calling the question stupid before pointing to its flaws without contributing anything is whinging.

OnTheCounter · 14-09-2012 12:37AM

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Why in Gods name would people want/need to reveal personal details here?

The question is deeply flawed, pointing that out is not whinging.

How much is your mortgage, spending costs btw?

thats the thing about answering on the internet, its annoymous.

You can discuss these sort of things honestly with other people facing the same difficulties without having to worry about people gossiping about your finances behind your back.

FANTAPANTS · 14-09-2012 12:38AM

if in next budget my wages/ and missus are cut it will be better if she leaves her job and we get income support FISC i think its called and we will be 75 euros better off every week. How can gov be happy with this some 1 else on benefits and not paying taxes than leaving us both working and paying full whack of taxes and levies.This time next year ireland will be on its knees and its time to shut the doors and watch the riots

Owen_S · 14-09-2012 12:40AM

Bout 350

Micky Dolenz · 14-09-2012 12:40AM

humbert wrote: »

I don't have a mortgage or any dept or a family or a car. You don't have to say how much you earn or spend but based on what you do earn or spend you could estimate in general in your area what you it take to satisfy the OPs requirements (maybe stating any assumptions you've made wrt a car/mortgage). Simple.

Calling the question stupid before pointing to its flaws without contributing anything is whinging.

So basically you are unqualified to even attempt to answer the question. I suppose you could always have a guess at it becuase without details, thats all it is.

You'll find I pointed out it's many variables before I called it a stupid question.

It's akin to playing pin the tail on the donkey.

How much do you need to earn?

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