In defence of Bikers

Motorist · 12-09-2012 11:46PM

Gbear wrote: »

That motorbikes are allowed on roads is utterly and totally farcical.
We have safety standards for cars. I wonder what NCAP rating a motorbike has?

To be entirely fair it's mostly the motorcyclists themselves who are in danger but having such an inherently unsafe device allowed on the roads is insane.

I wouldn't be surprised if in my lifetime humans are banned from driving altogether in favour of automated transportation. Motorbikes will probably be scrapped long before that.

Would you ban pedestrians and cyclists from the roads too? And how about buses and larger vehicles given how dangerous they are to cars.

mikemac1 · 12-09-2012 11:47PM

Kidney donars, jaysus

And you talk about understanding GH........

daenerysstormborn3 · 12-09-2012 11:47PM

Oh dear, this is going to end well.

One thing I will say that is going to come up probably every second post on this page, filtering is legal. Filtering also known as "skipping ahead", "skipping the queue", "weaving dangerously" etc.

It's funny that this thread should come up today. My boyfriend and I drove into town earlier and turned up a side street (narrow with a very narrow walk way either side, with those big black poles every few feet) behind a people carrier taxi. About half way up this side street the taxi driver stops, no indicator, no magical "I can park wherever I like" hazard lights, nothing, just stops dead and gets out of the taxi. He walked around the back of the taxi and before my boyfriend could even say anything, he said to my boyfriend "don't go getting narky now, I'm letting a family out here, you'll just have to wait". Would he have said that to a person driving a car? No way. We were able to squeeze by the taxi through the narrow walk way while the taxi driver shouted at us "****ing bikers, think you own the road". No idea who pissed is in his cornflakes but this is the typical attitude of other road users towards bikers. When they want you to filter they'll tell you (why thank you sir) but when they don't want you to filter they'll bitch about you on the internet or else take the usual action on the road and try to cut you off. Do other road users think it's safe to move out in front of a motorbike when they see it filtering legally? Because that's what I experience on the road everyday when I ride my bike and that's what my boyfriend has experienced for the last 20 years of riding bikes.

Anyone remember the ad campaign that was run in Australia encouraging car drivers to open car doors on bikers to stop them illegally filtering (filtering is illegal in Australia)? That is the attitude towards bikers. We're such a stain on society that you can injure us any way you please.

I was hit by a van 5 months ago. The driver looked in my direction and when I was 2-3 metres away from his van he pulled out of a side road while looking in the other direction. I was driving 40kms under the speed limit, the car ahead of me was taking a left turn. The van driver hit me and drove me and my bike over the centre wire barriers and down the wrong side of the road into oncoming traffic. This is what it's like to drive a bike. Ask any biker on bikes a few years and unfortunately they will probably have a similar story to tell you.

Less than 1% of motorcycle accidents are caused by vehicle fault Gbear, get your facts straight. You'll also find that the majority of bikers take great pride in their bikes and the maintenance and upkeep of them, more so than other vehicle owners.

Kidney donors?? It's amazing that it's the year 2012 and people are still so clueless.

dj jarvis · 12-09-2012 11:53PM

Gbear wrote: »

That motorbikes are allowed on roads is utterly and totally farcical.
We have safety standards for cars. I wonder what NCAP rating a motorbike has?

To be entirely fair it's mostly the motorcyclists themselves who are in danger but having such an inherently unsafe device allowed on the roads is insane.

I wouldn't be surprised if in my lifetime humans are banned from driving altogether in favour of automated transportation. Motorbikes will probably be scrapped long before that.

go bite the butt end of my hairy biker balls

car drivers should be aware - at all times , not fixing hair or doing make up , reading a paper or steering with their knees
i have seen this and one hundred times worse

worst crash i had on a bike was caused by a car stopping in the middle lane of a 3 lane road , letting a passenger out , just as i passed on the inside lane turning left - straight out in front of me - opened the door in my path - never checked her mirrors and should not have been stopped in the first place - fu2ked me up big style

bikers would be a lot safer if car drivers actually used mirrors and indicators once in a while

i survived 13 years a courier in Dublin - i could pen a book on some of the stuff i have seen on Dublin's roads

its the car drivers 99% of the time , trust me on this one
why should i leave the road just because car drivers are lazy assed motherfu2ckers ? learn how to drive

Gran Hermano · 12-09-2012 11:54PM

mikemac1 wrote: »

Kidney donars, jaysus

And you talk about understanding GH........

It was intentional to highlight how RTDH and other bikers use perjorative and demeaning language towards motorists and yet whine that motorists are not courteous to them.

I also met with the NHSBT in the UK recently and they informed me that motorcyclists are a key source of raw materials for them.

dj jarvis · 13-09-2012 12:00AM

Gran Hermano wrote: »

It was intentional to highlight how RTDH and other bikers use perjorative and demeaning language towards motorists and yet whine that motorists are not courteous to them.

I also met with the NHSBT in the UK recently and they informed me that motorcyclists are a key source of raw materials for them.

this is very true - story once told - a guy waiting for a liver donor , he asks the surgeon how long does he have to wait ? gets the answer " its raining so about a hour " they did not call a ward in vincents the honda ward for nothing

the amount of bikers i have seen in hospital far out numbers any other member of a social group -

but these accidents are mostly caused by the negligence of others = dont go crapping on bikers

mikemac1 · 13-09-2012 12:03AM

Gran Hermano wrote: »

I also met with the NHSBT in the UK recently and they informed me that motorcyclists are a key source of raw materials for them.

Oh I believe this

Maybe we can declare a ceasefire on the cage and kidney donar comments.

But seeing as bikers are 2% of traffic it's not exactly a fair deal or one that will stop one side being shouted down

fullstop · 13-09-2012 12:07AM

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Motorcyclists in Ireland often get treated like absolute dirt by some vehicle drivers on Irish roads particularly taxis.

I've been witness motorcyclists suffering intimidation who were forced off the road by a maniac caged drivers.

Motorcyclists don't even have the privilege of any designated lane, even bus lanes which are often vacant, they are forced to filter through traffic with idiots opening doors and also having to avoid cyclists that refuse to use designated lanes.

A lot of cage drivers take absolutely no precautions towards bikers and fail to treat a fellow road user as they would someone driving a cage.

Anyway its high time Bikers were treated with a bit of respect and understanding in Ireland.

BTW Bikers have now to put up with all sorts of fascist EU regulations unlike cyclists.

And those central median "cheese graters" that only Bikers have to fear.

Maybe if the (seemingly) majority of them didn't drive like idiots, they'd get more respect. As an example, pretty much every day I see a motorbike pass between 2 cars on the motorway as one overtakes the other, absolute stupidity

Motorist · 13-09-2012 12:09AM

In two-thirds of motorcycle accidents involving another vehicle, the driver of the other vehicle violated the motorcycle rider's right of way and caused the accident. Motorcyclists are about 26 times more likely to die in a crash than someone riding in a passenger car, and are 5 times as likely to be injured. Per mile travelled, motorcyclists were about 16 times more likely than passenger car occupants to die, and about 3 times as likely to be injured, in a motor vehicle crash.

70% per cent of collisions occur at intersections.

daenerysstormborn3 · 13-09-2012 12:14AM

Motorist wrote: »

70% per cent of collisions occur at intersections.

So bloody true. How hard is it to look both ways and actually see?

Motorist · 13-09-2012 12:27AM

pixiebean22 wrote: »

So bloody true. How hard is it to look both ways and actually see?

Very poor driver education also plays a part. In EDT during the brief lesson on observation, a fleeting one word reference is made to watch out for hazards such as motorcyclists.

There are all kinds of theories as to what makes car drivers so blind such as Inattentional Blindness and only looking for other cars (similar to the video where you count the number of basketball passes while a conspicuous gorrilla walks by in the background). Also it has been shown that more experienced drivers (age 40-50) are more likely to crash at intersections which may be because they have become so adept at scanning for other cars only.

Separately the RSA should have driver education videos such as below. Seems they are still hopelessly trying to teach people basics such as keep left on a motorway, or how to use a roundabout though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8o-u0RFtyGY&feature=related

daenerysstormborn3 · 13-09-2012 12:36AM

I do think car drivers just look for other cars or larger vehicles and when they don't see one they assume the way is clear. My accident is evidence of that, the guy looked and pulled out anyway. I'd love to see driving simulators introduced here as a way to put people in real life situations so they learn their actions have real consequences. I've lost count of the amount of times another road user has looked at me like I just removed an invisibility cloak.

somefeen · 13-09-2012 12:43AM

Will everybody please just chill out.
FFS if people learned to drive properly there would be no issues here.
And anyway why do people care if a biker filters through the traffic? They're not gonna hold you up and it will make SFA difference to your journey time.
I'm not a biker myself and I honestly couldn't give a **** if they're ahead of me in traffic, sometimes I lend them a hand because I'm nice.

I used to suffer horrible road rage, but now I don't even blow the horn anymore if someone pulls out in front of me. It only happened when my driving improved to the point that I easily anticipated other peoples actions and started driving defensively.
Chill out, drivings meant to be fun and it is when you learn how to do it properly.

Motorist · 13-09-2012 12:50AM

somefeen wrote: »

I used to suffer horrible road rage, but now I don't even blow the horn anymore if someone pulls out in front of me. It only happened when my driving improved to the point that I easily anticipated other peoples actions and started driving defensively.
Chill out, drivings meant to be fun and it is when you learn how to do it properly.

Unfortunately some drivers are terribly inept, lack confidence (with good reason) and are purely ignorant of basic rules of the road. Remember FF TD Mattie McGrath arguing that drink driving was good because it calmed down "nervous and jumpy" drivers :pac:

Syllabus · 13-09-2012 01:00AM

Gran Hermano wrote: »

It was intentional to highlight how RTDH and other bikers use perjorative and demeaning language towards motorists and yet whine that motorists are not courteous to them.

I also met with the NHSBT in the UK recently and they informed me that motorcyclists are a key source of raw materials for them.

in what way is 'cage' demeaning exactly

i absolutely believe that bikers supply a fair amount of 'raw materials' as you so crudely put it but i would be fairly confident that in the vast majority of these instances careless cage drivers are the reason

Run_to_da_hills · 13-09-2012 01:12AM

Gran Hermano wrote: »

Use of the term 'cage drivers' makes it hard to feel any empathy towards you OP or to kidney donors in general.

A quite a large percentage of bikers are closet cagers.

Go to any MCC Rally on a pis*ing g wet weekend and you will see.

AgileMyth · 13-09-2012 01:13AM

somefeen wrote: »

And anyway why do people care if a biker filters through the traffic?

Never understood that myself. Every single day someone deliberately pulls over to try to stop me getting passed them in stationary traffic.

Few weeks ago a twat in a Subaru (I knew it was a subaru cause it was written on it about 50 times) pulled over to the edge of his lane to block me and continued to pull over on top of me when I was alongside him. Actually could have killed me and was well aware of what he was doing.

flynnlives · 13-09-2012 01:27AM

Gran Hermano wrote: »

Use of the term 'cage drivers' makes it hard to feel any empathy towards you OP or to kidney donors in general.

ride a bike for a few days and then you will understand the term full well.

You are so exposed on a bike that you have to experience it to believe it.

until then educate yourself

opti0nal · 13-09-2012 01:28AM

TeddyTedson wrote: »

I absolutely love blocking off their cycle lane when I get stuck in traffic and they have to actually obey traffic lights for a change.

Ironic that, considering that motorbikes are not allowed in bus or cycle lanes.

flynnlives · 13-09-2012 01:30AM

And anyways motorcycles are going to become alot more popular!

i save a fortune on petrol!

Quorum · 13-09-2012 08:29AM

Gran Hermano wrote: »

or to kidney donors in general.

mikemac1 wrote: »

Kidney donars, jaysus

And you talk about understanding GH........

Ah yes, rather grimly, many doctors refer to motorcyclists as organ doners.

Gbear · 13-09-2012 04:28PM

Motorist wrote: »

Would you ban pedestrians and cyclists from the roads too? And how about buses and larger vehicles given how dangerous they are to cars.

Well, yes on pedestrians, but then again, for the most part, they don't walk along roads.
And yes, I think cycling lanes should all be on footpaths rather than on roads.
Roads are dangerous places where giant metal cages hurtle about the place.

On buses and other large vehicles - although I can't find any data after literally minutes of searching I would imagine that cars are an order of magnitude safer per mile than motorbikes. Whether buses make the roads less safe or not doesn't seem to have a great effect on overall road safety for car drivers.

dj jarvis wrote: »

go bite the butt end of my hairy biker balls

Alliteration champion 2011/2012.

Motorist wrote: »

In two-thirds of motorcycle accidents involving another vehicle, the driver of the other vehicle violated the motorcycle rider's right of way and caused the accident. Motorcyclists are about 26 times more likely to die in a crash than someone riding in a passenger car, and are 5 times as likely to be injured. Per mile travelled, motorcyclists were about 16 times more likely than passenger car occupants to die, and about 3 times as likely to be injured, in a motor vehicle crash.

70% per cent of collisions occur at intersections.

This is my point. I made no comment on the competency of motorcyclists.
They put themselves in danger every time they drive (ride/cycle/whateverthe****). It's not about what they do - it's about being in a transportation system where accidents are going to happen and they're the most at risk by the inherent lack of safety in their mode of transport.

I'm in a bit of a dilemma because generally speaking, if they cause no harm to others, I'd like for people to do what they want. Largely speaking, motorcyclists are mostly putting themselves in danger when they head out on to a road system (that will always be unsafe to those without proper protection so long as humans are the ones directly controlling the transportation) but it's demanding a higher quality of driver than I believe it's possible for the general population to be to function properly with them.

Incidentally, virtually every motorcyclist I've ever seen on a motorway was speeding. I drive the speed limit and there's a conspicuous lack of motorcyclists who drive at the same speed.

Broxi_Bear_Eire · 13-09-2012 04:37PM

I am not a biker in fact I have not sat on a bike since I was 18 and I am an awful lot older now. Though I am thinking of buying one.
But I feel for bikers at times the crap they have to put up from motorists at times amazes me,don't get me wrong though I know there are idiots on bikes out there but most have been nothing but courteous to me on the road

Syllabus · 13-09-2012 05:45PM

@gbear

What is this 'speed limit' you make reference to?

:rolleyes:;):p

rubadub · 13-09-2012 05:48PM

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Filtering is not weaving and its actually a part of the Garda safe pass course.

Any more info on this? preferably with a full definition of filtering?

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

they are forced to filter through traffic with idiots opening doors

By forced, do you mean they are actually legally obliged to filter?

pixiebean22 wrote: »

filtering is legal. Filtering also known as "skipping ahead", "skipping the queue", "weaving dangerously" etc.

Many actions which happen to be legal are not recommended by the rules of the road (or common sense).
http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-pedestrians-cyclists-motorcyclists/motorcyclists/motorcycle_riding.html

Always make sure that the road space that you intend to enter is completely safe

Avoid riding between traffic lanes.

Keep well clear of other vehicles when passing them. Remember that drivers might not always see you in their "blind spots".

opti0nal · 13-09-2012 06:07PM

Irish Independent July 2, 2012

A MOTORCYCLIST has been given a suspended sentence for leaving a pedestrian severely brain damaged after a judge noted "we all make mistakes."
...

Lukas Krycia (29) was going over the speed limit and travelling in the cycle lane when he hit mother-of-two, Anne Marie Campbell as she was crossing the road.
...

Ms Campbell (40) was left severely brain damaged and is now unable to live independently. She can no longer work in her previous role as a home carer and is unable to care for her children without supervision.
...

Gda Geary said there was no bad weather or poor road conditions which may have contributed to the accident. He said motorcyclists are not allowed in cycle lanes and the lane was clearly signposted.
Krycia was later arrested and admitted in interview that he knew he was breaking the law.

It can happen to the most confident.

dj jarvis · 13-09-2012 06:14PM

rubadub wrote: »

Any more info on this? preferably with a full definition of filtering?

By forced, do you mean they are actually legally obliged to filter?

Many actions which happen to be legal are not recommended by the rules of the road (or common sense).
http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-pedestrians-cyclists-motorcyclists/motorcyclists/motorcycle_riding.html

its says avoid , its not illegal
its common practice to filter in almost every nation i have been in
it is not dangerous AT ALL - if other road users abide by the rules of the road

so if cars did not change lane's with out checking and indicating , or open doors with out checking no bikers would be killed or injured
same goes for pedestrians - they are like lemmings when zipping in and out of traffic - the worst are the dopes with headphones on

so tell me again how is it the bikes fault if these other road users dont abide by the rules of the road ?

dj jarvis · 13-09-2012 06:15PM

Gbear wrote: »

Well, yes on pedestrians, but then again, for the most part, they don't walk along roads.
And yes, I think cycling lanes should all be on footpaths rather than on roads.
Roads are dangerous places where giant metal cages hurtle about the place.

On buses and other large vehicles - although I can't find any data after literally minutes of searching I would imagine that cars are an order of magnitude safer per mile than motorbikes. Whether buses make the roads less safe or not doesn't seem to have a great effect on overall road safety for car drivers.

Alliteration champion 2011/2012.

This is my point. I made no comment on the competency of motorcyclists.
They put themselves in danger every time they drive (ride/cycle/whateverthe****). It's not about what they do - it's about being in a transportation system where accidents are going to happen and they're the most at risk by the inherent lack of safety in their mode of transport.

I'm in a bit of a dilemma because generally speaking, if they cause no harm to others, I'd like for people to do what they want. Largely speaking, motorcyclists are mostly putting themselves in danger when they head out on to a road system (that will always be unsafe to those without proper protection so long as humans are the ones directly controlling the transportation) but it's demanding a higher quality of driver than I believe it's possible for the general population to be to function properly with them.

Incidentally, virtually every motorcyclist I've ever seen on a motorway was speeding. I drive the speed limit and there's a conspicuous lack of motorcyclists who drive at the same speed.

why thank you

dj jarvis · 13-09-2012 06:20PM

Gbear wrote: »

Well, yes on pedestrians, but then again, for the most part, they don't walk along roads.
And yes, I think cycling lanes should all be on footpaths rather than on roads.
Roads are dangerous places where giant metal cages hurtle about the place.

On buses and other large vehicles - although I can't find any data after literally minutes of searching I would imagine that cars are an order of magnitude safer per mile than motorbikes. Whether buses make the roads less safe or not doesn't seem to have a great effect on overall road safety for car drivers.

Alliteration champion 2011/2012.

This is my point. I made no comment on the competency of motorcyclists.
They put themselves in danger every time they drive (ride/cycle/whateverthe****). It's not about what they do - it's about being in a transportation system where accidents are going to happen and they're the most at risk by the inherent lack of safety in their mode of transport.

I'm in a bit of a dilemma because generally speaking, if they cause no harm to others, I'd like for people to do what they want. Largely speaking, motorcyclists are mostly putting themselves in danger when they head out on to a road system (that will always be unsafe to those without proper protection so long as humans are the ones directly controlling the transportation) but it's demanding a higher quality of driver than I believe it's possible for the general population to be to function properly with them.

Incidentally, virtually every motorcyclist I've ever seen on a motorway was speeding. I drive the speed limit and there's a conspicuous lack of motorcyclists who drive at the same speed.

incidentally , virtually every car i've seen on the motorway was speeding , and reading , and eating , and on the mobile , and drunk , and doing makeup , and turning around to talk to kids , i drive the speed limit and there's a conspicuous lack of car drivers who drive at the same speed

you cant argue with the statistical facts - other road users cause more biker deaths than bikers - so who should be more careful ? who needs to pay more attention ? now let me guess

Pottler · 13-09-2012 06:30PM

My favorite kind are the Outlaw Bikers. Lovely people, not too adverse to resorting to violence when prodded with sticks etc, but otherwise great lads all together:)(says the fella who lives surrounded by the headerballs)

In defence of Bikers

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