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Changing Nationality

13567…10

Comments

  • #62
    up for anything
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,791 ✭✭✭up for anything


    scudzilla wrote: »
    If you're born in a country then that country is your nationality.

    Stupid, stupid statement. I was born in another country. It doesn't mean that I am the nationality of that country. :rolleyes:


  • #63
    Reekwind
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,126 ✭✭✭Reekwind


    Stars and Bars wrote: »
    They are as Irish as Didier Drogba. Which is not at all.
    Wow. I didn't know that Didier had lived in Galway for the past ten years, had an Irish kid and had just been granted Irish citizenship. When did this all happen?

    I'd love to get him into the squad for the Germany game...
    IrishAm wrote:
    How about we copy Israels citizenship policies?
    From Wikipedia: "Adults may acquire Israeli citizenship through naturalization. To be eligible for naturalization, a person must have resided in Israel for three years out of the previous five years" :rolleyes:

    [Edit: In case you haven't done the sums: that's actually more liberal than Irish naturalisation law, which requires five years residence]

    Which is unsurprising because this is how gaining citizenship usually works. I can't think of many countries today that grant citizenship exclusively on the basis of jus sanguinis. That sort of nationalist nonsense has been unsurprisingly unpopular in Europe since the first half of the 20th C

    People move. That's life. And when they settle in new countries, as the Irish have been doing for centuries, then they have the right to seek to become full citizens. Only a racist or nationalist (the two are obviously not exclusive) would insist on conflating citizenship with national identity and somehow seeing a threat in this


  • #64
    ResearchWill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,111 ✭✭✭ResearchWill


    scudzilla wrote: »
    Yeah I'm Welsh, and i'll stay Welsh, that's what i was born as and that's what i'll die as, be it unfair or not. But no way in hell am i gonna go to another country and choose to become one of there citizens just because it's a bit better than Wales.

    Can I ask what passport you have. I have never seen a Welsh passport and I lived there for a few years.


  • #65
    keith16
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭keith16


    Stars and Bars wrote: »
    Careful now, this won't fit in with the liberal agenda in Ireland. They aren't and never will be Irish. Not now, not ever. Being born in a stable does not make one a horse.

    Yet that would appear to be the only criteria for you and others like you claiming to be a horse.


  • #66
    up for anything
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,791 ✭✭✭up for anything


    Reekwind wrote: »
    People move. That's life. And when they settle in new countries, as the Irish have been doing for centuries, then they have the right to seek to become full citizens. Only a racist or nationalist (the two are obviously not exclusive) would insist on conflating citizenship with national identity and somehow seeing a threat in this

    Well said and thank you for the new word I just learned. :D


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  • #67
    Mountainsandh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,705 ✭✭✭Mountainsandh


    I'm French and living here 15 years (I think it's 16 now actually), married to an Irish man and with Irish kids.
    I still feel French though, and so far I've held back on becoming an Irish citizen, because even though I live here, and for good, it "feels" wrong to sort of become Irish.
    I'm totally integrated mind, I work and pay taxes here, I drink tea and love digestive bikkies, and so on ... :D
    But I'm still French, and I think others still see me as "being French", nothing wrong with that.

    Was a bit peeved off though after I misunderstood the whole voting thing last elections, and found I couldn't vote for the president for example. I have signed some papers to renounce my right to vote in French elections some time ago, with the Embassy, and so I thought I could vote for anything here from then on, but that's not the case it seems.

    The only reason I would go through the paperwork to become an Irish citizen would be to be able to vote in all elections here, but as I said, I'm not hugely keen on doing that... yet.

    I found it a bit odd with the ladies on the show too, but I'd say if we experienced their life back where they came from, most of us would give an arm and a leg to become Irish, even more so when there are children involved.


  • #68
    ResearchWill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,111 ✭✭✭ResearchWill


    scudzilla wrote: »
    There's a guy i work with, He's from Pakistan, he married a Latvian woman 4yrs ago and has been in Ireland ever since, he doesn't live with her, yet has just applied for Irish Citizenship!!! All because he married an EU member!

    He must be legally here 5 years to apply for citizenship, unless his wife was Irish which she is not.


  • #69
    scudzilla
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,065 ✭✭✭✭scudzilla


    ResearchWill wrote: »
    Can I ask what passport you have. I have never seen a Welsh passport and I lived there for a few years.

    Unfortunately i have a British Passport, the day they issue a Welsh passport i will get one, what's that got to do with things?


  • #70
    Reekwind
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,126 ✭✭✭Reekwind


    Mountainsandh wrote: »
    I found it a bit odd with the ladies on the show too, but I'd say if we experienced their life back where they came from, most of us would give an arm and a leg to become Irish, even more so when there are children involved.
    It's also slightly different for EU citizens given that we have rights that stem from our common EU citizenship. So, for example, while I'm living in the UK, I feel no need to apply for British citizenship because almost all my rights are guaranteed by Brussels (and a number of bilateral treaties)

    Citizenship is obviously more important if you're not an EU citizen and are therefore legally just a non-national resident. It's a bigger step both legally and, as the Late Late clip suggests, emotionally


  • #71
    ResearchWill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,111 ✭✭✭ResearchWill


    scudzilla wrote: »
    Unfortunately i have a British Passport, the day they issue a Welsh passport i will get one, what's that got to do with things?

    It matters because you said:

    "Surely citizenship is 1 thing that should remain the same from the day you're born to the day you die.

    I'm Welsh, been living here for 7yrs and would never dream of desserting my nationality because something better came along."

    So you consider you nationality Welsh but you are a citizen of the United Kingdom of a great Britan and Northern Ireland. To put it another way one of the 6 flavours of British Citizenship, yes they have 6 different types of citizenship.

    They are

    "British citizenship;
    British overseas citizenship;
    British overseas territories citizenship;
    British national (overseas);
    British protected person; and
    British subject."

    So it matters quite a lot what you are saying. Because you are a citizen of one place but a national of another, a place that does not not has it taken the right to issue its own passports. When you can wave your welsh passport proudly, then maybe you can lecture another person on wishing they can have something your country cannot give, but mine can. That's why it matters.


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  • #72
    scudzilla
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,065 ✭✭✭✭scudzilla


    ResearchWill wrote: »
    It matters because you said:

    "Surely citizenship is 1 thing that should remain the same from the day you're born to the day you die.

    I'm Welsh, been living here for 7yrs and would never dream of desserting my nationality because something better came along."

    So you consider you nationality Welsh but you are a citizen of the United Kingdom of a great Britan and Northern Ireland. To put it another way one of the 6 flavours of British Citizenship, yes they have 6 different types of citizenship.

    They are

    "British citizenship;
    British overseas citizenship;
    British overseas territories citizenship;
    British national (overseas);
    British protected person; and
    British subject."

    So it matters quite a lot what you are saying. Because you are a citizen of one place but a national of another, a place that does not not has it taken the right to issue its own passports. When you can wave your welsh passport proudly, then maybe you can lecture another person on wishing they can have something your country cannot give, but mine can. That's why it matters.

    Yep, i'm Welsh, it's a country, i was born there, that's my nationality, ooooh, shall i go to another better country and change, then 10yrs down the line do the same again??


  • #73
    ResearchWill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,111 ✭✭✭ResearchWill


    scudzilla wrote: »
    Yep, i'm Welsh, it's a country, i was born there, that's my nationality, ooooh, shall i go to another better country and change, then 10yrs down the line do the same again??

    I am only pointing out the inconsistency in your posts. You say clearly that nationality can not change and why do people not of Irish nationality seek an Irish passport. This when your own nationality and citizenship are different. If you can not see the huge contradiction in that you must be a Turk.:D

    As you are a Welsh national and a british citizen.


  • #74
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,369 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    scudzilla wrote: »
    Yep, i'm Welsh, it's a country, i was born there, that's my nationality, ooooh, shall i go to another better country and change, then 10yrs down the line do the same again??

    If you like.


  • #75
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,566 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    ResearchWill wrote: »
    scudzilla wrote: »
    Yep, i'm Welsh, it's a country, i was born there, that's my nationality, ooooh, shall i go to another better country and change, then 10yrs down the line do the same again??

    I am only pointing out the inconsistency in your posts. You say clearly that nationality can not change and why do people not of Irish nationality seek an Irish passport. This when your own nationality and citizenship are different. If you can not see the huge contradiction in that you imust be a Turk.:D

    As you are a Welsh national and a british citizen.

    How are they different?


  • #76
    IrishAm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,576 ✭✭✭IrishAm


    Reekwind wrote: »

    People move. That's life. And when they settle in new countries, as the Irish have been doing for centuries, then they have the right to seek to become full citizens. Only a racist or nationalist (the two are obviously not exclusive) would insist on conflating citizenship with national identity and somehow seeing a threat in this

    That's nice. Can you explain to my the wisdom in handing out 30,000 plus citizenship certs to foreigners since April 2011, whilst thousands of our indigenous population are forced abroad to look for work?

    And from looking at the clip the Welsh lad was referring to, quite a few of last nights audience members were asking themselves the same question.

    The new Irish got a very eh.... lukewarm reception.


  • #77
    bobbysands81
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,229 ✭✭✭bobbysands81


    scudzilla wrote: »
    I've been thinking about this a lot lately and just can't get my head round it.

    Why are people so eager to change their nationality, and why is it even allowed?

    A good friend of mine is from Romania, he's been living here 10yrs and earlier this year he became an Irish Citizen, i still class him as Romanian and always will.

    On The Late Late Show last night were 4 Nigerian Ladies who have been living in Galway for 10yrs, last week they all became Irish Citizens.

    Surely citizenship is 1 thing that should remain the same from the day you're born to the day you die.

    I'm Welsh, been living here for 7yrs and would never dream of desserting my nationality because something better came along.

    If you're born in a country then that country is your nationality.

    What happens, say 10yrs in the future, if Ireland is already more fcuked than it is now, we've defaulted countless times on the debt, been thrown out of the euro and unemployment is hitting 40%, Will these 'New' Citizens jump ship and move along to the next up and coming country??

    What are your views?

    You're Welsh? Out of interest what nationality is on your passport?


  • #78
    ResearchWill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,111 ✭✭✭ResearchWill


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    How are they different?

    Well that would all depend on the kinda welsh person you are asking. But in this thread it is showing contrary to what the OP said that a person can very well have a nationality different to their citizenship. The OP did not say he was British he said he was Welsh, clearly stating his nationality, I was just pointing out how his passport is not a welsh passport.


  • #79
    bobbysands81
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,229 ✭✭✭bobbysands81


    IrishAm wrote: »
    That's nice. Can you explain to my the wisdom in handing out 30,000 plus citizenship certs to foreigners since April 2011, whilst thousands of our indigenous population are forced abroad to look for work?

    And from looking at the clip the Welsh lad was referring to, quite a few of last nights audience members were asking themselves the same question.

    The new Irish got a very eh.... lukewarm reception.

    Do you think all Irish working abroad should be repatriated back to Ireland?


  • #80
    ResearchWill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,111 ✭✭✭ResearchWill


    IrishAm wrote: »
    That's nice. Can you explain to my the wisdom in handing out 30,000 plus citizenship certs to foreigners since April 2011, whilst thousands of our indigenous population are forced abroad to look for work?

    And from looking at the clip the Welsh lad was referring to, quite a few of last nights audience members were asking themselves the same question.

    The new Irish got a very eh.... lukewarm reception.

    Can you produce evidence of how many certain where given out in that time.

    But in any case these certs are given out because the people applying for them have fullfilled the requirements as set out in law. If you want to change the legislation please write to your TD's to ask that they do so.

    Also the reason that so many people recently are getting naturalization is because the previous government kept people in queues for years.


  • #81
    IrishAm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,576 ✭✭✭IrishAm


    bobbysands81 wrote: »
    Do you think all Irish working abroad should be repatriated back to Ireland?

    Why do you ask?


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  • #82
    scudzilla
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,065 ✭✭✭✭scudzilla


    bobbysands81 wrote: »
    You're Welsh? Out of interest what nationality is on your passport?

    So i answer that question (It's British unfortunately and not Welsh) and you jump on me?

    My original question was why people want to change there nationality (now seems i should have said citizenship), not what nationality is on my passport.

    It's just ridiculous how people can just go from country to country and declare themselves nationals of that country after a few years, and yes, i'm pretty sure that some or Irelands newest citizens will have found something better in 10yrs time


  • #83
    bobbysands81
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,229 ✭✭✭bobbysands81


    scudzilla wrote: »
    Unfortunately i have a British Passport, the day they issue a Welsh passport i will get one, what's that got to do with things?

    Well to me it shows that Nationality is not as cut and dried as you seem to think it is.

    You think you are Welsh (and for the record I fully respect you're right to think of yourself as Welsh). However, you are seen as being British wherever you travel and even by your own country.

    Let people choose what nationality they are.


  • #84
    bobbysands81
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,229 ✭✭✭bobbysands81


    IrishAm wrote: »
    Why do you ask?

    It's a simple question mo chara, why not just answer it?


  • #85
    scudzilla
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,065 ✭✭✭✭scudzilla


    bobbysands81 wrote: »
    Well to me it shows that Nationality is not as cut and dried as you seem to think it is.

    You think you are Welsh (and for the record I fully respect you're right to think of yourself as Welsh). However, you are seen as being British wherever you travel and even by your own country.

    Let people choose what nationality they are.

    Ok, today (Sunday) i want to be Australian, Next Thursday i want to be Japanese.

    Don't be so ridiculous, people's nationalities, IMO, are determined the moment they are born


  • #86
    donegal_man
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,239 ✭✭✭donegal_man


    Originally Posted by Stars and Bars viewpost.gif
    Careful now, this won't fit in with the liberal agenda in Ireland. They aren't and never will be Irish. Not now, not ever. Being born in a stable does not make one a horse.

    Good news for Jesus there. This is a question I find intriguing, at what point will they or their children be Irish enough for some of the posters on here?


  • #87
    up for anything
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,791 ✭✭✭up for anything


    scudzilla wrote: »
    Yep, i'm Welsh, it's a country, i was born there, that's my nationality, ooooh, shall i go to another better country and change, then 10yrs down the line do the same again??
    scudzilla wrote: »
    So i answer that question (It's British unfortunately and not Welsh) and you jump on me?

    My original question was why people want to change there nationality (now seems i should have said citizenship), not what nationality is on my passport.

    It's just ridiculous how people can just go from country to country and declare themselves nationals of that country after a few years, and yes, i'm pretty sure that some or Irelands newest citizens will have found something better in 10yrs time

    You are not giving any concrete reasons as to why it upsets you that people have the ability to change their citizenship after living and working in a new country for a number of years. Why exactly do you find it so offensive and ridiculous, apart from the 'dey tuk our jobs' angle and the fact that in a few years they might leave and do the same elsewhere?


  • #88
    IrishAm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,576 ✭✭✭IrishAm


    bobbysands81 wrote: »
    It's a simple question mo chara, why not just answer it?

    If they are legally in other nations, then no. Ideally, only those that want to travel would emigrate. Nobody would be forced to.


  • #89
    ResearchWill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,111 ✭✭✭ResearchWill


    scudzilla wrote: »
    So i answer that question (It's British unfortunately and not Welsh) and you jump on me?

    My original question was why people want to change there nationality (now seems i should have said citizenship), not what nationality is on my passport.

    It's just ridiculous how people can just go from country to country and declare themselves nationals of that country after a few years, and yes, i'm pretty sure that some or Irelands newest citizens will have found something better in 10yrs time

    Can you show where I jumped on you I pointed out the fallacy of your argument. It is AH after all. If you want to come on a public forum with what I feel is silly xenophobic rhetoric don't be supprised if people pull you up on it. BTW if you don't like the fact Ireland is giving out these passports nothing but the Irish sea stopping you heading back to wales where at least you will be safe in the acknowledge none of these people will get a Welsh passport, well at least for another number of years.

    In relation to these people going to another country in 10 years, well that's ok then If that's what they want to do.


  • #90
    bobbysands81
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,229 ✭✭✭bobbysands81


    scudzilla wrote: »
    So i answer that question (It's British unfortunately and not Welsh) and you jump on me?

    My original question was why people want to change there nationality (now seems i should have said citizenship), not what nationality is on my passport.

    It's just ridiculous how people can just go from country to country and declare themselves nationals of that country after a few years, and yes, i'm pretty sure that some or Irelands newest citizens will have found something better in 10yrs time

    I'm not jumping on you my friend, not at all. I'm just trying to point out that nationality is not a simple cut and dried thing.


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  • #91
    keith16
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭keith16


    scudzilla wrote: »
    So i answer that question (It's British unfortunately and not Welsh) and you jump on me?

    My original question was why people want to change there nationality (now seems i should have said citizenship), not what nationality is on my passport.

    It's just ridiculous how people can just go from country to country and declare themselves nationals of that country after a few years, and yes, i'm pretty sure that some or Irelands newest citizens will have found something better in 10yrs time

    Why would they bother trying to find something "better". If there was a better country for them to have citizenship in, would they not just try and get there in the first place?

    It's not as if there's some sort of league table of nations you have to gain citizenship in some sort of order....


This discussion has been closed.
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