Abortion

cynder · 08-09-2012 07:34PM

Tipsygypsy wrote: »

Cynder wht hospital was she in that offered her an abortion? And how many weeks along was she?

cynder wrote: »

They didn't want to slice and dice their baby, they had hope, they gave her a chance, she didn't suffer. The doctors were great, she just went to sleep peacefully.

Also 'Slice and Dice', was that their terminology or is it yours? Because I dont think I've ever read any phrasing as insensitive and I have no doubt that there are women reading this who have had terminations for medical reasons similar to your friend who certainly did not want to 'slice and dice' their babies either. Im quite appalled.

She was in the second trimester when the baby was found to have a faulty heart and was offered a termination.

up for anything · 08-09-2012 07:42PM

Sponge25 wrote: »

Can a girl have an abortion in Ireland if she's gonna die or has been raped etc? I know there's no abortion clinics but has it ever happened!?

For all your questions you could try this first!

Sponge25 wrote: »

Anyone who isn't judgmental about rape ought to be locked up! Isn't it something everyone hates?

All doctors agree at some point the baby is viable outside the womb, I thought this was common sense? Some babies are born as early as 6.5months etc! Probably younger for all I know and survive!

Edit: the earliest baby born was 21 weeks and five days and looked remarkably healthy! So no one can argue that the baby isn't viable outside the womb unless it's born! That's not the point at all, the point is the baby is VIABLE and ALIVE but inside the womb, terminate the baby and you kill a living baby! Just cause it's not outside the womb doesn't mean it's not alive!

Edit: Also people who are having abortions DID consent to being pregnant by having sex!

You being judgmental about rape was in response to your comment

Originally Posted by Sponge25
Ofcourse there's no distinction but I can't help feeling a girl who doesn't sleep around is raped by a stranger is far worse than a junkie who sleeps with 10 men a day for money is raped, it's just one more man for the junkie but the girl who doesn't sleep around and a good girl would be ruined!

You have quite a an old fashioned mindset going on there - your ideas about good girls and bad girls (you could try using the more all encompassing word women instead of girls) are positively stupid.

I wasn't arguing that the fetus isn't viable outside the womb - I was asking you how you would get the fetus out of an unwilling woman in order for it to be viable?

As for your edit: If every female who has sex consents to being pregnant in your world - why do most of them use contraception?

Tipsygypsy · 08-09-2012 07:53PM

cynder wrote: »

She was in the second trimester when the baby was found to have a faulty heart and was offered a termination.

What hospital?

cynder · 08-09-2012 08:04PM

Tipsygypsy wrote: »

cynder wrote: »

She was in the second trimester when the baby was found to have a faulty heart and was offered a termination.

What hospital?

Original hospital was limerick, she think got transfered but I'm not 100% sure where, it's hard enough to know your babies going to die without getting into the nitty gritty, she had the baby in limerick. Buried her at home.

She went on to have another healthy baby.

Lingua Franca · 08-09-2012 08:30PM

cynder wrote: »

They didn't want to slice and dice their baby, they had hope, they gave her a chance, she didn't suffer. The doctors were great, she just went to sleep peacefully.

Would you say that this guy wanted to "slice and dice" his baby?

Tipsygypsy · 08-09-2012 09:05PM

cynder wrote: »

Original hospital was limerick, she think got transfered but I'm not 100% sure where, it's hard enough to know your babies going to die without getting into the nitty gritty, she had the baby in limerick. Buried her at home.

She went on to have another healthy baby.

Whatever hospital offered her an abortion would have been breaking the law as it stands in Ireland in doing so. This is why so many women whose babies have fatal fetal abnormalities HAVE to travel to England for treatment. I have heard many many stories like this and never ever heard of anyone being offered an abortion in Ireland. THe hospitals and OBs are all afraid to do so because they could very well face prosecution. THis is why I would like to know where she was offered it.

gozunda · 08-09-2012 09:10PM

cynder wrote: »

By that then murderers should be given counseling in prison for the heinous Crimes they committed.

So you rate anyone who seeks a termination no matter what the cause whether it be rape, incest, mental health etc as a "Murderer"?

Cynder - your posts would appear to lack empathy with anyone who is not of your mindset. I note you have detailed about your father beating up your mother - I am not a qualified professional but is it a possible influence in your apparent lack of empathy towards others?

I also note you say you (quite rightly) love your children but then direct hatred towards those who does not share similar outlooks by calling them murders/killers even where they chose a termination in a jurisdiction where this procedure is legal.

I am aware that many of the pro-lifers on here are christans - I am unsure whether you are not but a useful one for those that are, is:

Do not judge so that you will not be judged” Matthew 7:1

which brings me to your next point:

cynder wrote: »

If a woman is raped she would need counseling anyway, as would a woman who escapes a violent relationship, as would someone who wants kid, but can't get pregnant because it could kill her. These women should be in counseling, You picked the 3 that I could understand however you didn't pick the woman who uses it as a contraceptive . Funny that!

How exactly do you know the number of women and the real reasons they seek a termination? Yes there are those whose own contraception has failed and due to other issues (which are not ours to speculate about) who then seek a termination. The ridiculous idea that an average woman could afford regular termination / abortion facilities as a means of contraception is risible.

Just because someone is raped etc does not mean they are recieving counseling - even though they should. The rape and the decision to undergo a termination is not one and the same thing. The change in hormones in a womans body alone can result in huge emotional changes.

The saying I like and I believe you would be wise to ponder on is as follows:

Pity is best taught by fellowship in woe - Samual Taylor Coleridge

. You may well love your kids but in all honesty I wouldn't wish you as a friend or neighbour with the lack of empathy towards others displayed in your posts.

tomtherobot · 08-09-2012 09:29PM

Pace2008 wrote: »

Ignorant or callous, what a flattering dichotomoy. I wonder, why is it that you view a zygote as a full human life when it comes to the issue of termination, but you and every other pro-lifer on the planet don't give a hoot about the tens of millions of zygotes - human beings in your eyes - which are flushed out of the womb after they fail to implant?

Tens of millions of people have lived and died before me, live and die right now and will (hopefully) live and die in the future. I have no meaningful awareness of their lives so i won't grieve them, it doesn't mean they're not alive. So callous or ignorant it is.

gozunda wrote: »

Yes. It is apparent that your concept of "Alive" and gestation of a human through full development in the womb is somewhat contrary to others accepted opinion. maybe you will be good enough to give us a definition of what you believe "alive" is in terms of Zygote through to Foetal development and at what point this "alive" actually happens in your opinion

gozunda wrote: »

There is a distinct difference. If someone miscarries very early on in the pregnancy (when abortion is allowed) where the emotional impact may be less than miscarriage than when the foetus is fully developed (And when abortion is not allowed) The difference between a Zygote, Blast Cyst Embryo and a predelivery Foetus is aknowledged in medical science.

Lingua Franca wrote: »

http://topnews.in/law/files/living-baby.jpg (Frieda Mangold)

Aye, she's looking well there. :rolleyes: Survival rates for micro-preemies are notoriously terrible. These babies are born before many important organs have formed and it's a desperate and painful and frequently futile struggle to keep them alive. Using a miraculous survival as an example is ridiculous.

Ok, so there's a number of these types of arguments being put forward. These are what I would classify as politician type responses, in so much that it's just an attempt to switch the debate and make it obtuse. We all know how difficult it is in medical ethics (not science) to ascertain when life begins and death occurs (when the plug should be pulled). This does not make killing ok. If im in court for killing somebody i can't say "im sorry your honour but i don't fully understand the point at which life ends, so I did nothing wrong"

As anyone who understands logic can appreciate it is futile to engage in this argument, at this point, but by all means start a new thread. If you don't agree that human life exists before birth why should i be arguing with you at what point life occurs?

gozunda wrote: »

Maybe it would because the type of attitudes that have appeared on this thread - calling people who make a choice "killers" etc and then saying they have no smpathy to anyone who finds themselves in this situation. There are many the reasons that may have contributed to those who select termination as an option and are forced to go abroad for it., whether this was because of rape, abuse, incest, violent partner or danger to the health of the mother. Just as there are many reasons why someone may find themselves in need of counselling after an abortion.
Its not necessarily a clear black and white descision but based on a balance of circumstances and personal decision.

Again this has been covered, what you're arguing for is counseling for tragic situations, not post-abortion counseling per se. Also, you've given another perfect example of how those that claim to be 'pro-choice' are so quick to run to examples where there has been no choice; rape, violence, abuse, medical emergency etc.

Lingua Franca · 08-09-2012 09:58PM

tomtherobot wrote: »

Ok, so there's a number of these types of arguments being put forward. These are what I would classify as politician type responses, in so much that it's just an attempt to switch the debate and make it obtuse. We all know how difficult it is in medical ethics (not science) to ascertain when life begins and death occurs (when the plug should be pulled). This does not make killing ok. If im in court for killing somebody i can't say "im sorry your honour but i don't fully understand the point at which life ends, so I did nothing wrong"

As anyone who understands logic can appreciate it is futile to engage in this argument, at this point, but by all means start a new thread. If you don't agree that human life exists before birth why should i be arguing with you at what point life occurs?

Tell me, how did you extrapolate all of that from my post responding to someone saying that a baby born at 21 weeks 5 days "looked remarkably healthy"? Do you even read this thread and attempt to understand posts or just look for opportunities to go "Ha!"? Don't bother answering, by the way, your post history will contradict you.

gozunda · 08-09-2012 09:58PM

tomtherobot wrote: »

.....

Ok, so there's a number of these types of arguments being put forward. These are what I would classify as politician type responses, in so much that it's just an attempt to switch the debate and make it obtuse. We all know how difficult it is in medical ethics (not science) to ascertain when life begins and death occurs (when the plug should be pulled). This does not make killing ok. If im in court for killing somebody i can't say "im sorry your honour but i don't fully understand the point at which life ends, so I did nothing wrong"

So bringing in proper scientific terminoly instead your use of emotive and disingenuous phraseology of child/baby/alive/life without proper definition is political? No it is not . Definitions are there to help clarfiy the process of
human development. Bringing in examples of courtroom dramatics doesnt help this discussion either.

tomtherobot wrote: »

Anyone who understands logic can appreciate it is futile to engage in this argument, at this point, but by all means start a new thread. If you don't agree that human life exists before birth why should i be arguing with you at what point life occurs?

Eh? Surely that is one of the most essential parts of
the discussion on the termination of pregnancy? Your logic may not be understood or appreciated by others
but then I would hold that your logic is deeply flawed.

tomtherobot wrote: »

Again this has been covered, what you're arguing for is counseling for tragic situations, not post-abortion counseling per se. Also, you've given another perfect example of how those that claim to be 'pro-choice' are so quick to run to examples where there has been no choice; rape, violence, abuse, medical emergency etc.

Would you deny counselling for those that request it - no matter what the reason? If someone needs counselling then it should be provided as required. I dont understand what your problem is. You do not know the exact reasons that someone has had a termination and yet you would choose to sit as judge and jury and condem them. Shame on you....

Pace2008 · 08-09-2012 11:12PM

tomtherobot wrote: »

Tens of millions of people have lived and died before me, live and die right now and will (hopefully) live and die in the future. I have no meaningful awareness of their lives so i won't grieve them, it doesn't mean they're not alive. So callous or ignorant it is.

Sorry, maybe I didn't make myself clear. I'm not talking about grieving the loss of these individuals, I'm talking about providing them with the right to live.

You disagree with abortion as you believe a anything that comes post-fertilisation is a person with a right to live. You haven't stated it explicitly but I'm sure it goes without saying that you believe sick children (and people in general) deserve to be cared for in order to prolong their existence. I'm sure if people claimed otherwise you'd be disagreeing with in a similar (probably much stronger) manner than you are with the "pro-abortionists" on this thread.

So why are you apathetic towards the death of unimplanted zygotes when abortion is taken out of the question? Why do you and the rest of the pro-lifers think it's alright to let millions and millions of human beings die every year without ever getting a chance at life, and not do anything about it?

gozunda · 08-09-2012 11:26PM

I aknowledge this somewhat of an aside but as I had mentioned this previously I would like to give this as an example of how dead infants whether full term or otherwise were viwed until recent times in this country. it hardly amounted to "respect for human life" imo...

In 2007, the (Catholic)International Theological Commission announced there was "hope for the salvation of children who have died without baptism". Though this upheld the concept of limbo, priests were finally allowed to bless limbo graves and bury the unbaptised in church grounds.

.....

There are countless mass infant graves scattered around Ireland, left
unmarked, unconsecrated and containing hundreds of bodies.

. They are a legacy of Roman Catholic tradition, which stipulated that
babies who died before being baptised did not go to heaven, but to an in-between
state known as limbo.

. Baptism, it decreed, corrected humanity's original sin in falling away
from God. As a consequence, children who died at birth were forbidden to be buried on consecrated ground and denied a funeral service.

. Instead they were buried in anonymous plots known as "cillín". Veiled
in secrecy, mired in shame, the burials usually took place in the middle of the night along cemetery boundaries to get the babies as close to sacred ground as possible.

. In 2007, the International Theological Commission announced there was
"hope for the salvation of children who have died without baptism". Though this upheld the concept of limbo, priests were finally allowed to bless limbo graves and bury the unbaptised in church grounds.

tomtherobot · 08-09-2012 11:33PM

Lingua Franca wrote: »

Tell me, how did you extrapolate all of that from my post responding to someone saying that a baby born at 21 weeks 5 days "looked remarkably healthy"? Do you even read this thread and attempt to understand posts or just look for opportunities to go "Ha!"? Don't bother answering, by the way, your post history will contradict you.

I didn't say that these arguments originated with your post just that they are being put forward and your post is an example:

Lingua Franca wrote: »

Survival rates for micro-preemies are notoriously terrible. These babies are born before many important organs have formed and it's a desperate and painful and frequently futile struggle to keep them alive. Using a miraculous survival as an example is ridiculous.

I think you'll also find I've kept a consistent argument going throughout this debate. I don't know what you mean by contradictions in my post history, example?

gozunda wrote: »

So bringing in proper scientific terminoly instead your use of emotive and disingenuous phraseology of child/baby/alive/life without proper definition is political? No it is not . Definitions are there to help clarfiy the process of
human development.

I did not say that the use of scientific terminology alone is political but nonetheless i would still argue that in this case it is. A theory of knowledge approach would argue that there are different forms of knowledge; scientific, life experience, common sense, ethical etc etc So it is reasonable to suggest that giving primacy to one form of knowledge over another is political. We all know that a baby grows in stages so there is no need here for the terminology, unless it's just meant to dehumanize? Also, while were at it, i'm not sure you have an understanding of the distinctions between science and ethics?

gozunda wrote: »

Bringing in examples of courtroom dramatics doesnt help this discussion either.

It was more than an example of courtroom dramatics, it was an analogy and i think you know that. By comparing your argument to a hypothetical ridiculous one, I was inferring the weakness in your argument. It's a common and accepted debating approach so i'd say it does help the discussion.

gozunda wrote: »

Eh? Surely that is one of the most essential parts of
the discussion on the termination of pregnancy? Your logic may not be understood or appreciated by others
but then I would hold that your logic is deeply flawed.

Again you're just changing the topic, we both know the original debate was on whether we can intuitively reason that an unborn child is alive. It is clearly not an essential part of that debate to say that the child is alive at one point or another before being born. If you would like to broaden or change the debate to one on where life begins, or the nature of life itself, then please start a new debate or thread.

gozunda wrote: »

Would you deny counselling for those that request it - no matter what the reason? If someone needs counselling then it should be provided as required. I dont understand what your problem is. You do not know the exact reasons that someone has had a termination and yet you would choose to sit as judge and jury and condem them. Shame on you....

Any other politician-like spin you'd like to put on this? Again you know from the outset the debate regarding counseling was whether it was hypocritical for pro-abortonists to demand state funded post-abortion counseling. It is a very different argument as to whether anyone that requests counseling should get it. Should criminals get counseling if it just facilitates them to commit more crime? Again this leads to a whole different debate and i feel you're well aware of that.

tomtherobot · 08-09-2012 11:38PM

gozunda wrote: »

I aknowledge this somewhat of an aside but as I had mentioned this previously I would like to give this as an example of how dead infants whether full term or otherwise were viwed until recent times in this country. it hardly amounted to "respect for human life" imo...
.....

What, an aside, from you? :eek:

tomtherobot · 08-09-2012 11:43PM

Pace2008 wrote: »

Sorry, maybe I didn't make myself clear. I'm not talking about grieving the loss of these individuals, I'm talking about providing them with the right to live.

You disagree with abortion as you believe a anything that comes post-fertilisation is a person with a right to live. You haven't stated it explicitly but I'm sure it goes without saying that you believe sick children (and people in general) deserve to be cared for in order to prolong their existence. I'm sure if people claimed otherwise you'd be disagreeing with in a similar (probably much stronger) manner than you are with the "pro-abortionists" on this thread.

So why are you apathetic towards the death of unimplanted zygotes when abortion is taken out of the question? Why do you and the rest of the pro-lifers think it's alright to let millions and millions of human beings die every year without ever getting a chance at life, and not do anything about it?

Anyone else here want to change the debate to one which centers around when life begins, if so please start a new thread? But i'd have to ask why you can't just engage me on the original hypothesis?

gozunda · 09-09-2012 12:39AM

tomtherobot wrote: »

I did not say that the use of scientific terminology alone is political but nonetheless i would still argue that in this case it is. A theory of knowledge approach would argue that there are different forms of knowledge; scientific, life experience, common sense, ethical etc etc So it is reasonable to suggest that giving primacy to one form of knowledge over another is political. We all know that a baby grows in stages so there is no need here for the terminology, unless it's just meant to dehumanize? Also, while were at it, i'm not sure you have an understanding of the distinctions between science and ethics?

You say you did AND you didn't - which is it? Correct terminolgy is essential if you are not going to end up talking at cross purposes which is why there is an actaul and accepted terminology for stages of development. But hey lets not let any actual FACT get the way ok. Btw an appreciation of both science and ethics doesn't require any distinction to be drawn unless you are equating "ethics" with the creationist religous movement. Are you?

tomtherobot wrote: »

It was more than an example of courtroom dramatics, it was an analogy and i think you know that. By comparing your argument to a hypothetical ridiculous one, I was inferring the weakness in your argument. It's a common and accepted debating approach so i'd say it does help the discussion.

Its not an analogy fromwhere I was standing - It was nothing like an analogy - in fact it was a bit like comparing a car with a tree You may think an argument was weak however I believe your analogy was ridiculous....To use this correctly the example would at least have to be in the same ballpark ok...

tomtherobot wrote: »

Again you're just changing the topic, we both know the original debate was on whether we can intuitively reason that an unborn child is alive. It is clearly not an essential part of that debate to say that the child is alive at one point or another before being born. If you would like to broaden or change the debate to one on where life begins, or the nature of life itself, then please start a new debate or thread.

You may think this But no I do not. As far as I am aware the post opened up on the topic of you saying that no-one should get post termination counselling. And I do think it is important to at least consider the stage of development and viability. All perfectly within the discussion that has spread from your diatribe against anyone who has to choose a have a termination - reasons unknown.

tomtherobot wrote: »

Any other politician-like spin you'd like to put on this? Again you know from the outset the debate regarding counseling was whether it was hypocritical for pro-abortonists to demand state funded post-abortion counseling. It is a very different argument as to whether anyone that requests counseling should get it. Should criminals get counseling if it just facilitates them to commit more crime? Again this leads to a whole different debate and i feel you're well aware of that.

ref Politicians - Repeating the same thing again and again I'm afraid wont make it any more valid. There you go using that deranged term again of pro-abortionists??? Where you get that? Would you like me to call names. I dont think it would help - would it?
This is not an accepted term - This has been very nicely explained to you
by several posters but you do refuse to debate nicely. So into the bold corner with you.

But who is the criminal Tom? Not the person who seeks a termination in a jurisdiction where it is legal again for reasons you or I are not party to, Therefore We Cannot Judge. I dont see how counseling facilitates anyone to "commit more crime" Please do explain how you came to this conclusion - I am sure the counsellors of Ireland would be very interested in this theory :rolleyes:. You keep mentioning that "I must be aware" of things but for the life of me - no I am not. I am trying my best to stay on topic which is not easy consider the knots you are tying yourself up in....

gozunda · 09-09-2012 12:48AM

tomtherobot wrote: »

Anyone else here want to change the debate to one which centers around when life begins, if so please start a new thread? But i'd have to ask why you can't just engage me on the original hypothesis?

Ehh? What hypothesis. In my opinion the first post amounted to a diatribe against everyone who ever had to resort to the choice of a termination and your declaration that all who do so should be denied counselling as a result :eek: The discusion has thankfully evolved from this base ideology and as a result it has brought up the issues of human development.

I provide for your referal a Definition of Hypothesis :

a proposition, or set of propositions, set
forth as an explanation for
the occurrence of some specified group of phenomena, either asserted merely as a provisional conjecture to guide investigation (working hypothesis) or accepted as highly probable
in the light of established facts.

Lingua Franca · 09-09-2012 12:51AM

tomtherobot wrote: »

I didn't say that these arguments originated with your post just that they are being put forward and your post is an example:

Of what argument is my post an example? That micro preemies don't look healthy? What's wrong with saying that?

I think you'll also find I've kept a consistent argument going throughout this debate. I don't know what you mean by contradictions in my post history, example?

Oh, sweet irony. :pac: I totally called it.

Lingua Franca wrote: »

Do you even read this thread and attempt to understand posts or just look for opportunities to go "Ha!"? Don't bother answering, by the way, your post history will contradict you.

I didn't say that you were contradicting yourself, I asked if you actually bothered to read any of the posts.

Pace2008 · 09-09-2012 01:20AM

tomtherobot wrote: »

Anyone else here want to change the debate to one which centers around when life begins, if so please start a new thread? But i'd have to ask why you can't just engage me on the original hypothesis?

You are asking why some women need professional help after choosing to end their pregnancy. I can think of plenty of possible circumstances surrounding the incident that could damage one's mental wellbeing - arguments with family and the father over the decision, dealing with societal stigma and, yes, regret over their choice of action. On top of the obvious you have to factor in the fact that humans have theory of mind - we have the ability to attribute mental states, emotions, desires etc. to other humans. This isn't limited to the people around us - it can extend to animals, inanimate objects, and I can certainly see how it could extend to a foetus even if the person who's received the abortion doesn't view it as a viable human, leading to trauma post-termination. This applies to miscarried children as well.

You seem to view the fact that some women require counselling post-abortion to be evidence that the terminated foetus is indeed a human being . So I'm asking you: do you not think the fact that no one seems to care about the zygotes that fail to implant to be evidence that there are cases when unborn children are not valued as human life? You're saying this is not a debate about what does or does not constitute a viable human being, but I honestly can't see how you can expect an answer without going into the topic.

Sponge25 · 09-09-2012 05:32PM

Lingua Franca wrote: »

http://topnews.in/law/files/living-baby.jpg (Frieda Mangold)

Aye, she's looking well there. :rolleyes: Survival rates for micro-preemies are notoriously terrible. These babies are born before many important organs have formed and it's a desperate and painful and frequently futile struggle to keep them alive. Using a miraculous survival as an example is ridiculous.

That certainly wasn't the baby I was looking at! She was small but normal looking!

Sponge25 · 09-09-2012 05:34PM

up for anything wrote: »

For all your questions you could try this first!

You being judgmental about rape was in response to your comment

You have quite a an old fashioned mindset going on there - your ideas about good girls and bad girls (you could try using the more all encompassing word women instead of girls) are positively stupid.

I wasn't arguing that the fetus isn't viable outside the womb - I was asking you how you would get the fetus out of an unwilling woman in order for it to be viable?

As for your edit: If every female who has sex consents to being pregnant in your world - why do most of them use contraception?

It doesn't matter if they use contraception, if you're not prepared to have a baby don't have sex. That's like putting one round in a revolver, shooting yourself in the head and complaining because ya put a gun to your head and pulled the trigger!

B0jangles · 09-09-2012 05:44PM

Do you really have! To finish virtually every sentence! With a !

(or an ? )

Sponge25 · 09-09-2012 05:45PM

B0jangles wrote: »

Do you really have! To finish virtually every sentence! With a !

(or an ? )

Yeah just too annoy you!?!!!

Mickeroo · 09-09-2012 05:48PM

Sponge25 wrote: »

It doesn't matter if they use contraception, if you're not prepared to have a baby don't have sex. That's like putting one round in a revolver, shooting yourself in the head and complaining because ya put a gun to your head and pulled the trigger!

Nah it's more like taking every measure possible not to get pregnant while still having a healthy sex life, only to end up getting pregnant.

B0jangles · 09-09-2012 05:51PM

Sponge25 wrote: »

Yeah just too annoy you!?!!!

OK, so you are just a boring troll, good to know and thus to ignore in future.

mcmoustache · 09-09-2012 05:51PM

So, has this debate been settled yet?

Who won?

jessiejam · 09-09-2012 06:26PM

cynder wrote: »

She was in the second trimester when the baby was found to have a faulty heart and was offered a termination.

Bullsh*t.
Terminations are not offered in any Irish hospital. Ever.

She may have been given the facts in a hospital about where to go etc but it certainly wouldn't have been offered. I think there are some facts missing from your story cynder.

There have been cases where a baby in the womb has died and the poor woman has to carry that baby until she naturally goes into labour. If they intervened it would have been illegal.

Pace2008 · 09-09-2012 06:30PM

Sponge25 wrote: »

It doesn't matter if they use contraception, if you're not prepared to have a baby don't have sex. That's like putting one round in a revolver, shooting yourself in the head and complaining because ya put a gun to your head and pulled the trigger!

I think it's more analogous to having a gun misfire and the bullet lodging in you, then asking the nice people at the hospital if they'd be so kind as to remove it.

gozunda · 09-09-2012 07:20PM

Sponge25 wrote: »

It doesn't matter if they use contraception, if you're not prepared to have a baby don't have sex. That's like putting one round in a revolver, shooting yourself in the head and complaining because ya put a gun to your head and pulled the trigger!

Is that you Father? Would you like a wee cup of Tea before ye start the marriage guidence classes.......;)

Sponge25 · 09-09-2012 07:48PM

gozunda wrote: »

Is that you Father? Would you like a wee cup of Tea before ye start the marriage guidence classes.......;)

Knowing me I could be your dad! haha just kidding.

Abortion

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