Should we scrap the Croke Park agreement?

kippy · 06-09-2012 06:39PM

tomtherobot wrote: »

Here here. And might i take this opportunity to offer my baton wielding strike breaking services

You think this country needs striking workers and all that goes with it?
Really?

hatrickpatrick · 06-09-2012 06:43PM

Cut government subsidies to banks before cutting anything else IMO.
I cannot abide the idea that ordinary taxpayers will be hit while golden circle bank managers continue to take home six figure salaries out of my pocket. At least the public service provides a service, the bailed out banking sector just provides headaches. They should be left to fend for themselves in the mess they created.

redjim · 06-09-2012 06:44PM

Yes Scrap the agreement ,and distribute the all Ireland tickets fairly ,

hatrickpatrick · 06-09-2012 06:49PM

kippy wrote: »

You think this country needs striking workers and all that goes with it?
Really?

Yes, why not exactly?
Those in power need a serious kick up the proverbial arse to stop looking after their interests and start looking after the people's interests.

dudara · 06-09-2012 06:50PM

It's not a public vs private debate, and comparisons shouldn't be dragged out and beaten to death. The only thing that those comments cause are posts from people going "I'm a nurse and..." or "I've had 50% of my hours cut in private employment...". This isn't about individuals, it's about the country as a whole.

The main thing is that the HSE and other departments are grossly inefficient. This is for a myriad of reasons. Like any boss, the Minister for Health, should have the ability to drive changes that would make his business efficient.

who_me · 06-09-2012 06:56PM

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

So raise taxes then. Private sector had not been hammered, many have not been hit in any way, all public sector workers have been cut.

As someone whose income has been heavily hit by the recession, and now have thousands of euros of debt to repay, with new charges and taxes and levies coming out of the woodwork... I really don't want to live on the same planet as you. Can we play rock, paper, scissors to see which of us gets to stay?

Daniel S · 06-09-2012 06:57PM

TeddyTedson wrote: »

Most of us are not going to have a pot to piss in by the end of things.
Something has to give.

I'm thinking there will come a time that people just ****ing lose it. People argue that Irish people never do anything. But even the most tolerant people have their limits, and I think we're going to see the straw that really breaks the camels back in the next few years.

The people who are currently working, in particular upper working and middle classes, cannot pay for everything/everyone. These are normally the people who take this shíte and put up with it as they are easy targets. I doubt they will for much longer and f**king fair play to them if they stand up to it.

keith16 · 06-09-2012 07:08PM

Anyone else fed up of this shìte in AH?

Shryke · 06-09-2012 07:14PM

keith16 wrote: »

Anyone else fed up of this shìte in AH?

kippy · 06-09-2012 07:31PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Yes, why not exactly?
Those in power need a serious kick up the proverbial arse to stop looking after their interests and start looking after the people's interests.

Public sector strikes are the last thing this country needs at the moment.

If there were enough people sharing the same beliefs as you they should mobilise themselves.

msg11 · 06-09-2012 07:34PM

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

So raise taxes then. Private sector had not been hammered, many have not been hit in any way, all public sector workers have been cut.

Yeah well I am on about 15,000 a year and paying every levy and tax there is unlike before, so I think everyone has got hit in the private sector.

Continuing this way it won't be worth my while to get up for work.

tomtherobot · 06-09-2012 11:38PM

kippy wrote: »

You think this country needs striking workers and all that goes with it?
Really?

Just to clarify i don't think we should have strikes. I was responding to an earlier post the jist of which was that pro-Croke Parkers are abusing the threat of strike to their advantage.

I don't think that threat is as great as they make out because the vast majority of people wouldn't support them and they'd fall on their arses.

If this threatening behavior is prolonging a situation that is damaging the country then it's better they have their strike and get it over with. Obviously, I would rather they see sense and drop Croke Park because it's clearly unjust and holding us back. Somehow, I can't see that happening.

Biggins · 07-09-2012 11:36PM

We are screwed!

Tonight: http://www.thejournal.ie/alan-shatter-budget-comments-588530-Sep2012/#comment-595293

Shatter warns backbenchers of ‘need for backbone’ ahead of Budget

It is also important, in order to achieve our objectives in the national interest, that not only members of Cabinet but also members of the Fine Gael and Labour parliamentary parties exercise their considered judgement when addressing issues…

… understand that what they say has both a domestic and international audience and may have unintended consequences and not succumb to targeted lobbying by vested interests on issues be they fiscal, economic, social or relating to foreign policy matters.

He’s saying:

1. We are going to get screwed! and

2. They are not going to listen to others!

Charming eh? What a bunch of fcukers!

I see serious trouble ahead!
Buckle down?
They better leave the bloody country.
There will be head-hunting yet by some irate people!

ilovesleep · 08-09-2012 12:12AM

rossie1977 wrote: »

350,000 jobs have been lost in the private sector over the last 4 years

Not to mention, many in the private sector especially retail, hospitality, services, etc got their hours severely reduced.

galwayrush · 08-09-2012 12:16AM

The Troika will be making the next agreement, it will be harsh.

Biggins · 08-09-2012 12:17AM

galwayrush wrote: »

The Troika will be making the next agreement, it will be harsh.

It might the straw that FINALLY will break the camels back!

ilovesleep · 08-09-2012 12:20AM

Biggins wrote: »

We are screwed!

Tonight: http://www.thejournal.ie/alan-shatter-budget-comments-588530-Sep2012/#comment-595293

He’s saying:

1. We are going to get screwed! and

2. They are not going to listen to others!

Charming eh? What a bunch of fcukers!

I see serious trouble ahead!
Buckle down?
They better leave the bloody country.
There will be head-hunting yet by some irate people!

Ah we're not that fcuked.

There's money to reward Wallace.
There's money for 10,000 silk ties.
There's money to spend 10,000 on xmas cards.

However there won't be money to keep the travel pass's perk for the disabled, sick and their carers. But there will be plently of money for the politicians to keep their perks and travel expenses.

Bunch of dirty bollix's FG are rubbing Austerity in our faces while they keep themselves sitting pretty.

Grayson · 08-09-2012 12:21AM

dudara wrote: »

It's not a public vs private debate, and comparisons shouldn't be dragged out and beaten to death. The only thing that those comments cause are posts from people going "I'm a nurse and..." or "I've had 50% of my hours cut in private employment...". This isn't about individuals, it's about the country as a whole.

The main thing is that the HSE and other departments are grossly inefficient. This is for a myriad of reasons. Like any boss, the Minister for Health, should have the ability to drive changes that would make his business efficient.

How is a discussion about the Croke park agreement not a discussion about Public Vs Private? And I fail to see what the efficiency of the health service has to do with the agreement.

galwayrush · 08-09-2012 12:21AM

Biggins wrote: »

It might the straw that FINALLY will break the camels back!

A lot of public sector workers won't know what's hit them when it happens, the reality that most private sector workers are already in is a nasty place.

Biggins · 08-09-2012 12:28AM

ilovesleep wrote: »

...Bunch of dirty bollix's FG are rubbing Austerity in our faces while they keep themselves sitting pretty.

Austerity ???

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/5325/42457837391759623331018.jpg

I will be back out on the streets again. :mad: :mad: :mad:

ilovesleep · 08-09-2012 12:32AM

I reckon FG will do some cutting in public expeniture and then raising taxes by introducing new home bills and other raising.

But

It will be dec 2013 where they will do all the major cutting like the cutting of SW and PS pay.

You see, they need to introduce all the new bills first and get peoples details name, address, etc. so that when incomes are cut they have personal details for prosecutions.

Do it, the other way around by cutting incomes first and the boat will be rocked.

squod · 08-09-2012 01:07AM

I voted yes. I didn't cost me anything. I didn't have to wait in a queue to do so and didn't fill in a single form before I voted.

This is obviously a poll run by the private sector.

Japer · 08-09-2012 01:24AM

squod wrote: »

I voted yes. I didn't cost me anything. I didn't have to wait in a queue to do so and didn't fill in a single form before I voted.

This is obviously a poll run by the private sector.

plus whoever set it up did not insist on double the wage and pension of their equivalent in N. Ireland.

Galwayguy35 · 08-09-2012 01:54AM

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

So raise taxes then. Private sector had not been hammered, many have not been hit in any way, all public sector workers have been cut.

Interesting post by someone who I would imagine is in a full time secure job, maybe ask some private sector workers about their experiences over the last 4 years before making statements like this.

Smidge · 08-09-2012 02:03AM

I'm always really interested in these threads as I suspect no-one on here knows personally anyone who is REALLY poor(I'm talking poor)

galwayrush · 08-09-2012 02:06AM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Interesting post by someone who I would imagine is in a full time secure job, maybe ask some private sector workers about their experiences over the last 4 years before making statements like this.

My experience,
Some weeks i have no income at all,others, a partial wage. despite this, the revenue will hound me for various taxes.
No overdraft from bank to help with the lean weeks with slow cash flow,
Had to stop paying a pension ages ago, in the real world we have to find the money ourselves to pay for one.
No health insurance, no social welfare,
Hard cash has to be found to pay basic utilities and to buy food, no guarentee of getting paid any week, so it's a constant struggle.
I really envy those who have secure guarenteed to be paid employment with the perks that go with it.

Biggins · 08-09-2012 02:15AM

mishkalucy wrote: »

I'm always really interested in these threads as I suspect no-one on here knows personally anyone who is REALLY poor(I'm talking poor)

You would be seriously very wrong.

Smidge · 08-09-2012 02:28AM

Biggins wrote: »

You would be seriously very wrong.

Wouldn't bet the farm on that one Biggs;)

Einhard · 08-09-2012 02:35AM

I'm a PS worker. Actually, I would be were it not for the fact that I have to leave the country next month because I can't get a job here. Fair enough. It'll be an adventure. I think Croke Park should be re-opened. This country simply can't afford to pay what it pays at the moment. It's incredible that unions are up in arms about even looking at increments. There was an excellent article in the Irish Times recently which accused unions of not giving a hoot about social solidarity, and I think it was spot on. The Unions want to keep what they have secured, and if disabled kids lose out on home help, well so be it.

I do think though, that there needs to be a wider awareness of how much has changed in the Public Service over the past few years. There needs to be more reflection and mature debate on both sides, and this isn't often reflected in the PS bashing that is so common around here. I'm a teacher, and can vouch for the fact that there have been huge reforms over the past five years, yet all the talk about that sector is based on conceptions that are well older. I wouldn't mind except that when corrected, the people who spout the BS don't take it on board.

All in all, I think Croke Park should be re-opened. However, I think it should be looked at in a sensible way by all sides, and without the kind of white heat generated by an often uninformed public discourse.

generalmental · 08-09-2012 02:37AM

Too right it should be scrapped they are going to cut my dole now.
Don't see why I should take a cut to keep them in a job.

Travesty that's what it is

Should we scrap the Croke Park agreement?

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