Abortion

Morag · 06-09-2012 04:47PM

Dangerous Man wrote: »

Show some respect. If you can't discuss something without resorting to petty insults then go away.

wow touchy much?
I didnt name anyone and merely mad an observation.

Fizzlesque · 06-09-2012 04:47PM

Gurgle wrote: »

I don't really understand, do you regret losing the child or having it?

I regret allowing my child be brought up by another woman. No feeling like a hero here.

Khannie · 06-09-2012 04:49PM

Sponge25 wrote: »

Well done:)

haha, yeah I heard girls boobies hurt when they're pregnant sometimes! Maybe it's something to do with milk production to feed the baby?

"Khannie the visual pregnancy detector" (tm).

There's a change in the size and firmness of a womans breasts very early on. I suppose you'd probably need to be intimate with the person to notice it.

Sponge25 · 06-09-2012 04:49PM

Fizzlesque wrote: »

I regret allowing my child be brought up by another woman. No feeling like a hero here.

Well atleast he/she's happy and that's what really matters? I know you're sad but the babies what matters most? huh?

Morag · 06-09-2012 04:49PM

LeeHoffmann wrote: »

Are you saying that it´s illegal to give a baby up for adoption if you´re married?

The parental rights of married parents can not be quashed by the courts which means those parental rights can not be given to new adopted parents.
It is just legally not possible.

cynder · 06-09-2012 04:50PM

Sponge25 wrote: »

How long does it take before a lady feels symptomatic of pregnancy? Anyone ever seen 'I didn't know I was pregnant' or some similiar titled documentary about women who suddenly find themselves giving birth in the bath or the kitchen floor without even knowing they were pregnant untill they went into labour!?

A hand full. That's why the go on tv because it's uncommon.

With my 3rd I knew 5 days after the act ( taste in my mouth changed). he was planned and it was our first try.

First 3 weeks after the act, I missed a period. I had a good few symptoms .with the Second one I knew 2 weeks later 2 days before period was due again down to taste change.

Matt_Trakker · 06-09-2012 04:50PM

Khannie wrote: »

What she said. I call plucked from the air nonsense so you back up your original claim there please.

That ain't how it works chappie, I asked you to prove it first.

:D

Idle Passerby wrote: »

12 weeks is 3 months. You dont think a sexually active, grown woman who has missed 3 periods, probably put on weight and possibly having morning sickness wouldn't have twigged something by then?

no ****?

Just coz your pregnant doesn't mean you will suffer morning sickness or miss a period. Everyone knows that. :rolleyes:

Anyway, 12 weeks, 14, 16, 18 whatever, doesn't matter it's still not a person, it's just a foetus, so it can still be terminated.

Khannie · 06-09-2012 04:51PM

Sharrow wrote: »

wow touchy much?
I didnt name anyone and merely mad an observation.

Ah to be fair it was pretty sweeping. Certainly anyone who disagreed with you would have questioned whether or not you were applying it to them

YD are a fairly extremist group. I'm sure most rational people don't want to be associated with extremism.

Sponge25 · 06-09-2012 04:52PM

cynder wrote: »

A hand full. That's why the go on tv because it's uncommon.

With my 3rd I knew 5 days after the act ( taste in my mouth changed). he was planned and it was our first try.

First 3 weeks after the act, I missed a period. I had a good few symptoms .with the Second one I knew 2 weeks later 2 days before period was due again down to taste change.

It's not unusual for some girls to not get a period an odd month! Is it?

Khannie · 06-09-2012 04:53PM

Sharrow wrote: »

The parental rights of married parents can not be quashed by the courts which means those parental rights can not be given to new adopted parents.
It is just legally not possible.

That seems like something that should be changed. Does that mean that it's impossible to be a married surrogate?

eviltwin · 06-09-2012 04:53PM

Sponge25 wrote: »

Well atleast he/she's happy and that's what really matters? I know you're sad but the babies what matters most? huh?

That is one of the most hurtful things I have seen on boards in a long time. Shame on you putting that up there.

Matt_Trakker · 06-09-2012 04:54PM

tomtherobot wrote: »

Yes, just like it's legal to kill in self defense. It doesn't make killing by choice ok and the two arguments should not be confused.

Here's where your logic is hugely flawed. You not killing a person. You're killing a life form yes, but not a person.

Sponge25 · 06-09-2012 04:55PM

eviltwin wrote: »

That is one of the most hurtful things I have seen on boards in a long time. Shame on you putting that up there.

Huh? I was trying to make her feel better?

Khannie · 06-09-2012 04:57PM

Matt_Trakker wrote: »

Here's where your logic is hugely flawed. You not killing a person. You're killing a life form yes, but not a person.

That's where the disagreement lies of course.

Skylinehead · 06-09-2012 04:57PM

Matt_Trakker wrote: »

That ain't how it works chappie, I asked you to prove it first. :D

No, that's not how it works. You made a statement, without evidence, now you're being asked to provide proof.

Morag · 06-09-2012 04:58PM

Khannie wrote: »

That seems like something that should be changed. Does that mean that it's impossible to be a married surrogate?

Ireland has no legal status for surrogates who ever gives birth to the baby is the automatic parent guardian even if it's genetically not their child.

eviltwin · 06-09-2012 04:59PM

Sharrow wrote: »

Ireland has no legal status for surrogates.

Doesn't the law state that the baby "belongs" to the surrogate even if she is only the carrier and has no biological relationship with the child?

Sponge25 · 06-09-2012 05:00PM

I know Ireland has no jurisdiction over the UK but where does Ireland stand on woman going to the UK for abortions? Legally etc? even if it's not mentioned, what's the opinion of officials etc?

Khannie · 06-09-2012 05:01PM

eviltwin wrote: »

That is one of the most hurtful things I have seen on boards in a long time. Shame on you putting that up there.

Only if the intent was bad, which I doubt. My sister in law gave a child up for adoption. It hurts her that someone else is raising the child but she does take solace from the fact that the child is happy - happier than she could have been in my sister in laws care (not saying that's the case for the other poster, only that a happy, well loved child is a good thing).

Khannie · 06-09-2012 05:01PM

Sponge25 wrote: »

I know Ireland has no jurisdiction over the UK but where does Ireland stand on woman going to the UK for abortions?

Totally fine. X case.

cynder · 06-09-2012 05:01PM

Sponge25 wrote: »

cynder wrote: »

A hand full. That's why the go on tv because it's uncommon.

With my 3rd I knew 5 days after the act ( taste in my mouth changed). he was planned and it was our first try.

First 3 weeks after the act, I missed a period. I had a good few symptoms .with the Second one I knew 2 weeks later 2 days before period was due again down to taste change.

It's not unusual for some girls to not get a period an odd month! Is it?

Depends its not just girls who get pregnant women also.

Once periods have settled can take up to a year or 2, with the majority of girls having periods before the age of 13 periods should be settled by 15 then its not normal to miss one unless something is medically wrong, a few ( minority) never have regular periods and these should take extra care because they don't know when they ovulate

If you look at Ireland I bet the stats would state most women knew they were pregnant before 10 weeks. Only a handful would be later and I bet you could count on your fingers those who never knew at all.

But I don't think Ireland does those stats.

tomtherobot · 06-09-2012 05:02PM

Matt_Trakker wrote: »

Here's where your logic is hugely flawed. You not killing a person. You're killing a life form yes, but not a person.

And again, tell this to somebody who has miscarried? Tell them they haven't lost a child just a 'life form' it's ok to kill. Courage of your convictions?

Gurgle · 06-09-2012 05:04PM

Sponge25 wrote: »

I know Ireland has no jurisdiction over the UK but where does Ireland stand on woman going to the UK for abortions? Legally etc? even if it's not mentioned, what's the opinion of officials etc?

Not mentioned?
Its enshrined in the constitution.

Article 40.3.3
The State acknowledges the right to life of the unborn and, with due regard to the equal right to life of the mother, guarantees in its laws to respect, and, as far as practicable, by its laws to defend and vindicate that right.

This subsection shall not limit freedom to travel between the State and another state.

This subsection shall not limit freedom to obtain or make available, in the State, subject to such conditions as may be laid down by law, information relating to services lawfully available in another state.

eviltwin · 06-09-2012 05:05PM

tomtherobot wrote: »

And again, tell this to somebody who has miscarried? Tell them they haven't lost a child just a 'life form' it's ok to kill. Courage of your convictions?

Its all down to the mindset of the individual. Everyone is different. I know women trying for babies who feel a loss of sorts when they have a period every month even though they were never pregnant. Its all about the emotional value you place in the pregnancy, if your're planning and hoping for a baby you will have a much greater emotional investment that a woman who doesn't want one.

tomtherobot · 06-09-2012 05:09PM

eviltwin wrote: »

Its all down to the mindset of the individual. Everyone is different. I know women trying for babies who feel a loss of sorts when they have a period every month even though they were never pregnant. Its all about the emotional value you place in the pregnancy, if your're planning and hoping for a baby you will have a much greater emotional investment that a woman who doesn't want one.

Are you the counselor? Would you tell that to somebody coming to you for counseling for a miscarriage or a stillbirth? Sorry, you're baby wasn't really alive, it's all down to your mindset and it's just a loss of sorts....

Morag · 06-09-2012 05:10PM

Sponge25 wrote: »

I know Ireland has no jurisdiction over the UK but where does Ireland stand on woman going to the UK for abortions? Legally etc? even if it's not mentioned, what's the opinion of officials etc?

We had a referendum on it in 1992.
The right to travel and the right to informaton was put to the vote and passed.

Constitutional Referendum 1992

Another referendum was held in 1992, in which two amendments were passed that established the 'right to travel' and the 'right to information'. A third proposal, the proposed Twelfth Amendment, would have defined when abortions could be considered legal, but was defeated. The 1992 referendum was fought at the same time as a general election which filled the newspapers and airwaves. This pushed the referendum to the very margins of public debate and whatever debate took place was on the substantive issue and not on Information or Travel. The Government also spent public funds on one-sided advertisements - a practice later declared unconstitutional in the McKenna judgement. The amendment on the substantive issue was rejected and Travel and Information amendments were passed though nearly 40% opposed the latter. Due to questions about the constitutionality of the amendments, the changes did not come into force until 1995.

Morag · 06-09-2012 05:11PM

tomtherobot wrote: »

And again, tell this to somebody who has miscarried? Tell them they haven't lost a child just a 'life form' it's ok to kill. Courage of your convictions?

Yes I have, but they are the same as some one who has had an abortion may grieve for that loss of that potential child.

eviltwin · 06-09-2012 05:13PM

tomtherobot wrote: »

Are you the counselor? Would you tell that to somebody coming to you for counseling for a miscarriage or a stillbirth? Sorry, you're baby wasn't really alive, it's all down to your mindset and it's just a loss of sorts....

I am but not for anything to do with pregnancy.

Why would I say that?

If a friend lost a baby early on for example and was in bits over it I would totally support her. Just because I might not feel the same level of grief as she does doesn't mean I'm right and she's wrong or vice versa. I deal with people who get upset over things I personally wouldn't all the time but its not about how I feel about their situation its all about them.

Its all about empathy my friend and trying to imagine the situation the other person finds themselves in.

Fizzlesque · 06-09-2012 05:13PM

Sponge25 wrote: »

Well atleast he/she's happy and that's what really matters? I know you're sad but the babies what matters most? huh?

How do you know she's happy? Can you be sure she doesn't feel abandoned by me, or think badly of me? How do you know she wasn't treated badly by her adopted parents? How do you know she doesn't curse the fact she was ever born?

Thing is, you don't, and neither do I.

I hope you're right, I hope she is happy ---- oh how I hope that's the case, but only one person can answer that question, and it ain't you or me.

Sponge25 wrote: »

Huh? I was trying to make her feel better?

Job not done. Only one person can make me feel better, and that one person is not yet ready to take on board the enormous emotional baggage that that would involve. That's presuming she ever will be.

tomtherobot · 06-09-2012 05:18PM

Sharrow wrote: »

Yes I have, but they are the same as some one who has had an abortion may grieve for that loss of that potential child.

You have what?

eviltwin wrote: »

Its all about empathy my friend and trying to imagine the situation the other person finds themselves in.

That's all great and flowery and lovely but again, with your approach to counselling, you will try to find empathy with rapists and pedophiles, correct?

That doesn't make what they've done ok?

Abortion

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