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Fees

  • 05-09-2012 10:52PM
    #1
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 12,694 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Will parents soon have to choose which child to send to college.

    At the moment registration fees are about 2300 euro each year so if you had two children in college its going to cost you nearly 5000 euro a year which for most family's is a lot of money.

    Its made even worse by the fact that is very difficult to get part time work.


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Comments

  • #2
    B.A._Baracus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,309 ✭✭✭✭B.A._Baracus


    Guess this is the best place to ask this...

    whats the craic with college fees these days? I keep hearing about costing going up, etc. But know two lads who went to crumlin college. One in 2007 and one in 2009. They only both paid around 200 each...

    So that 200 is now 2300 each?! :eek:


  • #3
    Sir Pompous Righteousness
    Closed Accounts Posts: 437 ✭✭Sir Pompous Righteousness


    Well there is a maintenance grant, isn't there? Basically, depending on the net income of your household, you'll get the registration fee paid and a grant of around €1500 (again depending on your situation). This more or less covers lower income families.

    Furthermore, if you have a child starting college, you should encourage them not to rely on mammy and daddy as much - they're adults now.


  • #4
    Muir
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 948 ✭✭✭Muir


    B.A._Baracus wrote: »
    Guess this is the best place to ask this...

    whats the craic with college fees these days? I keep hearing about costing going up, etc. But know two lads who went to crumlin college. One in 2007 and one in 2009. They only both paid around 200 each...

    So that 200 is now 2300 each?! :eek:

    No, Crumlin does PLC courses so they are far cheaper than Universities and ITs.

    the fee is currently 2250 and set to rise by 250 a year until it reaches 3000.


  • #5
    crazy cabbage
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 738 ✭✭✭crazy cabbage


    I hope that it never comes to that. I know it is already putting alot of pressure on parents including my own. :( And you are right in that it is almost impossible to find part time jobs and even if you can you will not be able to juggle most degrees and job simply becouse of workload. For some 'lighter' degrees it is possible but for most i dont think it is.


  • #6
    Mr Benevolent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,433 ✭✭✭✭Mr Benevolent


    Students should have to pay to go to college like in every other civilised country. Develop a loan system. Free education was a boom thing.


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  • #7
    Sir Pompous Righteousness
    Closed Accounts Posts: 437 ✭✭Sir Pompous Righteousness


    Confab wrote: »
    Students should have to pay to go to college like in every other civilised country. Develop a loan system. Free education was a boom thing.

    As long as the loans aren't totally government loans or from any single bank. Look at what happened in the US. Big question is, when will banks start lending these sums so freely again.


  • #8
    crazy cabbage
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 738 ✭✭✭crazy cabbage


    Confab wrote: »
    Students should have to pay to go to college like in every other civilised country. Develop a loan system. Free education was a boom thing.

    Now there is a good idea. Lets make it impossible for people from lower class backgrounds to get a degree...


  • #9
    Muir
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 948 ✭✭✭Muir


    Sir Pompous Righteousness wrote: »
    Well there is a maintenance grant, isn't there? Basically, depending on the net income of your household, you'll get the registration fee paid and a grant of around €1500 (again depending on your situation). This more or less covers lower income families.

    Furthermore, if you have a child starting college, you should encourage them not to rely on mammy and daddy as much - they're adults now.

    You can't really say they shouldn't depend on mammy & daddy and yet mention the grant which is based on the income of mammy and daddy. I'd be screwed without my parents, I don't get the grant because we're something like €50 over the limit, I can't get work but I do any little jobs I can get.


  • #10
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 12,694 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    For the sake of argument you have two children ( young adults ) aged 18 and 20 you work as a team leader in Tesco and your wife drives a truck your income is over the limit for the grant, plus you live in rural Roscomm so the chance of you children getting a part time job is minimal, both of your children are in college you cant afford the nearly 5000 euro for the reg fees for both ot them. How do you choose.


  • #11
    euddue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60 ✭✭euddue


    crazy cabbage wrote: »
    Now there is a good idea. Lets make it impossible for people from lower class backgrounds to get a degree...

    do you know how loans work?


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  • #12
    Muir
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 948 ✭✭✭Muir


    Confab wrote: »
    Students should have to pay to go to college like in every other civilised country. Develop a loan system. Free education was a boom thing.

    We don't actually have free education. They might call it free, but fees are rising rapidly. We have no loan system or graduate tax system etc. and our 'free' fees are more expensive than full fees in some countries.


  • #13
    4zn76tysfajdxp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,944 ✭✭✭✭4zn76tysfajdxp


    Confab wrote: »
    Students should have to pay to go to college like in every other civilised country.

    Austria, the Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, Greece, Norway, Slovenia and Sweden are all uncivilised countries then, yeah?


  • #14
    1ZRed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,293 ✭✭✭1ZRed


    ATM, that's actually what's happened to me. My other two sistets are in college in their final years so it's fine, it's just a years wait. Can't do anything about it.

    What annoys me though is with all the cuts to education, and the government pushing competitiveness and innovation, how will they extract the absolute best out of young people if they harshen barriers such as these in their way?

    Surly they should be investing into 3rd level as much as possible because when things do recover, how will we avail of it as best we can?

    Ireland isn't known for having much talent but we do have our intelligence and and a heavy emphasis on education so why be so short sighted, hurt our greatest export and screw ourselves long term?


  • #15
    Sir Pompous Righteousness
    Closed Accounts Posts: 437 ✭✭Sir Pompous Righteousness


    Muir wrote: »
    You can't really say they shouldn't depend on mammy & daddy and yet mention the grant which is based on the income of mammy and daddy.

    Really what I mean is not being totally dependent. The grant helps in the mean time but getting a part time job (or a job during the summer and saving up for next year) is a lot more helpful is gathering funds.
    Muir wrote: »
    I'd be screwed without my parents, I don't get the grant because we're something like €50 over the limit, I can't get work but I do any little jobs I can get.

    Aren't there different categories? Like a net income of €40k would get more of a grant than a family who's net income is €60-70k?

    When it comes to jobs, over half the people on my course have one (and I'm in a science course with lots of hours, so it's doable).

    Anyway, I think parents should start saving up for these things years in advance if they wish to send their child to college.


  • #16
    brummytom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,572 ✭✭✭✭brummytom


    I start Uni in a week and a half. £8,000 a year. That figure was decided by a group of people who, despite being born with a silver dildo up their arse, went to university for free. Cheers.


  • #17
    Richard Hillman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    mariaalice wrote: »
    Will parents soon have to choose which child to send to college.

    At the moment registration fees are about 2300 euro each year so if you had two children in college its going to cost you nearly 5000 euro a year which for most family's is a lot of money.

    Its made even worse by the fact that is very difficult to get part time work.

    I think if you have 2 members of the household in college that are siblings, you only have to pay the Contribution charge once.


  • #18
    crazy cabbage
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 738 ✭✭✭crazy cabbage


    euddue wrote: »
    do you know how loans work?

    Yes. And do you know the pressure and debt that would be placed on students and familys. In america people can expect to pay 16000ish per year. Multiply that by 4-5 years and that is an increadable amount of money for 1 child.

    And like someone else said we already have 'fees' of 2250 per year which is set to rise. That isn't 'free' education


  • #19
    Muir
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 948 ✭✭✭Muir


    Sir Pompous Righteousness wrote: »
    Really what I mean is being totally dependent. The grant helps in the mean time but getting a part time job (or a job during the summer and saving up for next year) is a lot more helpful is gathering funds.



    Aren't there different categories? Like a net income of €40k would get more of a grant than a family who's net income is €60-70k?

    When it comes to jobs, over half the people on my course have one (and I'm in a science course with lots of hours, so it's doable).

    Yeah, there are different categories. We're just over the limit to receive anything. It's also gross income, not net.

    Fair play to the people on your course. I've applied for countless jobs and internships, I can't get anything. Luckily I know someone who is able to throw the odd bit of work my way which I do anytime I get it.


  • #20
    Scortho
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,871 ✭✭✭Scortho


    As a student, the best solution has to be a graduate tax once you start earning over a certain amount. The problem with loans is that not everyone will be able to get one.

    This way, everyone contributes towards their own education costs and it can help fund the next generation. Its also non-discrimatory so it doesn't matter who Mammy or Daddy is!
    It also means that the working class family who send none of their children to college don't pay for my education.
    For example, the government pay close enough to 13000 a year for my course.

    While some may bring up the problem of students emigrating, at the moment they're being educated at great expense to the country and leaving anyway.

    Obviously students from disadvantaged socio-economic backgrounds deserve grants. For some a third level qualification is their only way out.


  • #21
    Muir
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 948 ✭✭✭Muir


    Richard Hillman wrote: »
    I think if you have 2 members of the household in college that are siblings, you only have to pay the Contribution charge once.

    I don't think this is true, but I think the parents paying the fees can apply for tax relief once they are paying more than the 2250, so because they are paying for 2 or more, hence more than 2250, they may get tax relief.


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  • #22
    Anita Blow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,935 ✭✭✭Anita Blow


    Confab wrote: »
    Students should have to pay to go to college like in every other civilised country.

    Why do you keep saying this when you've been proven so wrong before?
    You said the same thing last november and I called you out on it and yet here you are again.
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=75421191&postcount=70
    Anita Blow wrote: »
    Ireland has the 2nd highest tuition fees in Europe.

    Other European countries which don't charge tuition fees:
    Austria
    Finland
    Czech Republic
    Denmark
    Greece
    Hungary
    Iceland
    Luxembourg
    Norway
    Slovenia
    Sweden
    http://www.studyineurope.eu/tuition-fees
    France and Germany have tuition fees of around €500 a year and Netherlands charges €1200-€2200. So I suppose now we shouldn't be like every other European with an interest in 3rd level education? In that case we'd actually be reducing the reg fee.


  • #23
    1ZRed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,293 ✭✭✭1ZRed


    crazy cabbage wrote: »
    Now there is a good idea. Lets make it impossible for people from lower class backgrounds to get a degree...

    It's not even people of lower class backgrounds though. My parents are not entitled to grants, my Dad is currently out of work because of recent health issues, yet even on my Mom's salary (she's a nurse, so it's been cut a lot) the government just look at the gross income and neglect the other expenses. So it's very difficult to get 4 children through college.

    It is frustrating though and I know a few people in this situation as well. It's definitely not just contained to people of a lower class.


  • #24
    Heroditas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,355 ✭✭✭✭Heroditas


    crazy cabbage wrote: »
    Confab wrote: »
    Students should have to pay to go to college like in every other civilised country. Develop a loan system. Free education was a boom thing.

    Now there is a good idea. Lets make it impossible for people from lower class backgrounds to get a degree...


    Since fees were reduced/made free in the 90s, there has been feck all increase in the numbers of lower class people going to third level education.
    Before free third level eduction, people from that background could avail of grants.
    So it's not as if it's impossible....


  • #25
    Muir
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 948 ✭✭✭Muir


    Heroditas wrote: »
    Since fees were reduced/made free in the 90s, there has been feck all increase in the numbers of lower class people going to third level education.
    Before free third level eduction, people from that background could avail of grants.
    So it's not as if it's impossible....

    As 1ZRed is pointing out, it's not just people from a lower class. It's actually more middle class who are struggling, hit with extra taxes and charges etc. yet this isn't considered when applying for the grant so you earn just too much gross income to get it. People who earn too much to get the grant but too little to afford the fees.


  • #26
    Fuinseog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,371 ✭✭✭Fuinseog


    mariaalice wrote: »
    Will parents soon have to choose which child to send to college.

    At the moment registration fees are about 2300 euro each year so if you had two children in college its going to cost you nearly 5000 euro a year which for most family's is a lot of money.

    Its made even worse by the fact that is very difficult to get part time work.

    Parents can starts a college fund when junior is born. forward planning is required, just cos the government cannot do it does not mean individuals cannot.


  • #27
    Heroditas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,355 ✭✭✭✭Heroditas


    Muir wrote: »
    Heroditas wrote: »
    Since fees were reduced/made free in the 90s, there has been feck all increase in the numbers of lower class people going to third level education.
    Before free third level eduction, people from that background could avail of grants.
    So it's not as if it's impossible....

    As 1ZRed is pointing out, it's not just people from a lower class. It's actually more middle class who are struggling, hit with extra taxes and charges etc. yet this isn't considered when applying for the grant so you earn just too much gross income to get it. People who earn too much to get the grant but too little to afford the fees.


    Oh I agree. Middle earners always get stung.


  • #28
    Butterface
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 731 ✭✭✭Butterface


    I luckily started an undergrad in the UK last September, so I avoided the fee increase over there which is up to £9000 in many universities now. My course is costing me £3,275 a year.

    I applied to the Student Loans Company in England, and they pay the university on my behalf every term.

    I will not have to start paying the loan (which will amount to about 10 grand) until I am earning over £15,000 per annum. It will come out of my paycheck automatically, akin to a tax on my wages. It's worked out at a certain percentage, and won't be a major dent on my income.

    I'm in a top university in the UK, and I'm not at all unhappy about having to pay fees for the quality of education I'm receiving.

    Honestly, what put me off applying in Ireland was the registration fees.

    I'm also from a low income background.


  • #29
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 19,174 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    seriously, you want to go to college, you pay for it. whats wrong with that?

    lots of other countries have a student loan thingy going on.
    if you want to attend a college, pay for it, get a loan or a part time job, pay your reg fees, which really are not that extortionate, then pay it back when you are finished and start work.

    i bet it would stop A LOT of drop outs in the first year.
    if these students had to pay for themselves they would
    a. decide on a course they were atually interested in, instead of one in a college based in a city they fancied living in!!
    b. actually try to do a bit of work at the course they were in.

    and i was a student, a couple of times. seen it, know how it goes.
    you wanna go, you pay for it yourself, thats fair enough i reckon.


  • #30
    token101
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,050 ✭✭✭token101


    I hate this stupid argument that people make about parents 'not being able to afford college if we introduce fees'. We already have fees FFS. In Ireland you have to pay in or around 2000 in two installments during each year if you aren't entitled to grants. Even if you are eligible, you still have to pay until it's assessed, which is usually the following March because most VECs are so understaffed and badly run. In the UK you pay nothing until you leave university altogether and get a job paying over X amount every year. I graduated in 2009 in the UK and have yet to give 1 cent to my university, and I have done nothing illegal, I just haven't earned over the threshold set for repayment. Why should countries have free third level education? Why should the guy who sweeps the road or collects the bins or does any other lower paid job not requiring a degree have to pay for someone else to go study when they can't have or just don't want the opportunity? If you want something, you should pay for it. The levels that are paid for 3rd level are a different matter entirely, they are a f*cking joke.


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  • #31
    Muir
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 948 ✭✭✭Muir


    bubblypop wrote: »
    seriously, you want to go to college, you pay for it. whats wrong with that?

    lots of other countries have a student loan thingy going on.
    if you want to attend a college, pay for it, get a loan or a part time job, pay your reg fees, which really are not that extortionate, then pay it back when you are finished and start work.

    i bet it would stop A LOT of drop outs in the first year.
    if these students had to pay for themselves they would
    a. decide on a course they were atually interested in, instead of one in a college based in a city they fancied living in!!
    b. actually try to do a bit of work at the course they were in.

    and i was a student, a couple of times. seen it, know how it goes.
    you wanna go, you pay for it yourself, thats fair enough i reckon.

    But we don't have a loan system where you pay it back after. You get a loan, you need someone else to guarantee it, and you start paying back straight away. A job is a wonderful idea except for the whole lack of them at the moment.
    Frankly I don't know anyone who came to college just to move to a city they fancied.

    Many people drop out in first year, especially those who are that bit younger (maybe 17) and aren't actually ready for it yet. That would happen regardless. I also think people who get the grant or who have parents who really struggle to put them through college appreciate it and work quite hard, in my experience anyway.


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