Debt Mediation for €13 overdraft?

anncoates · 04-09-2012 08:31PM

Is this going to be the new African bank spam thread type where about 6 different posters a week post hilarious variations on the same automated bank letter?

Pawwed Rig · 04-09-2012 08:34PM

EBS have sent me 6 letters about a €3 overdraw on my account (which I don't use anymore). That is 55c x 6 = €3.30 on stamps to recover €3. I will not pay it until offered debt mediation

ejmaztec · 04-09-2012 08:40PM

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

EBS have sent me 6 letters about a €3 overdraw on my account (which I don't use anymore). That is 55c x 6 = €3.30 on stamps to recover €3. I will not pay it until offered debt mediation

If I were you, I'd move to Wales and file for bankruptcy. If it's good enough for Ivan Yates, it's good enough for you.

You can come back in a year and take a dump on the bank's doorstep.

squod · 04-09-2012 08:52PM

send them a cheque. Don't forget to wipe your arse with it first.

dotsman · 04-09-2012 09:29PM

stepbar wrote: »

I could understand perhaps if the account was overdrawn by 500 quid but 13 eur? Does the customer really need to be informed?

Personally, I wouldn't be loosing sleep over 13 eur nor would I be over 500 for that matter.

But how much is too much? To one person being €5 overdrawn (and the related charges) is enough for them to start a thread on boards complaining, while another person could be €1,000 overdrawn and not bat an eyelid.

The letter is simply a generic letter informing the customer that they have gone overdrawn (as it is an unauthorised overdraft). It's simply good practice, good customer service, in line with the regulator's desires and keeps the politicians/media happy (with the last 2 points being the only things that dictate banking decisions these days).

PizzamanIRL · 04-09-2012 09:42PM

If you rang up looking for a repayment plan, I wonder would they drop the formality and professionalism and just say "Ah come on, it's only €13."

Sky King · 04-09-2012 09:43PM

dotsman wrote: »

It's simply good practice, good customer service, in line with the regulator's desires and keeps the politicians/media happy (with the last 2 points being the only things that dictate banking decisions these days).

I fully accept the account should not be overdrawn and it's down to bad timing on my part (withdrawing just a little too much cash just before a couple of standing orders went out).

Other than this totally insignificant blip, my history is flawless, and I have 20 years of impeccable credit history with this bank. Not only this, but I put thousands through this account monthly.

My main problems are

1) None of the above seems to be worth a fking sh!t to my bank, they don't give a tuppenny fk about me, my long standing customer loyalty to their company through good times and bad, and my virtually perfect credit history.

2) Sending out a letter offering debt mediation for a €13 overdraft makes them and their business look unbelievably fking stupid... even if it IS an automated letter. As another poster pointed out, a human wrote the rules for the automation and he or she decided at that point that any overdraft, no matter how small or short lived is worth a snooty automatic generic letter and this is wrong... very very wrong.

ArtSmart · 04-09-2012 09:50PM

Sky King wrote: »

I fully accept the account should not be overdrawn and it's down to bad timing on my part (withdrawing just a little too much cash just before a couple of standing orders went out).

Other than this totally insignificant blip, my history is flawless, and I have 20 years of impeccable credit history with this bank. Not only this, but I put thousands through this account monthly.

My main problems are

1) None of the above seems to be worth a fking sh!t to my bank, they don't give a tuppenny fk about me, my long standing customer loyalty to their company through good times and bad, and my virtually perfect credit history.

2) Sending out a letter offering debt mediation for a €13 overdraft makes them and their business look unbelievably fking stupid... even if it IS an automated letter. As another poster pointed out, a human wrote the rules for the automation and he or she decided at that point that any overdraft, no matter how small or short lived is worth a snooty automatic generic letter and this is wrong... very very wrong.

Well I'm not gonna say bankers are ****, coz I already said it.

Bubblegum18 · 04-09-2012 09:50PM

You should get some advice from mabs you need professional advice for that kinda debt

csi vegas · 04-09-2012 10:48PM

Sky King wrote: »

My bank just wrote me a snooty letter to tell me to eliminate this outrageous overdraft of €13, run up over a ridiculous period of seven working days.

They even went so far as to offer debt mediation services

Me too, for the paltry sum of €119. Now all of a sudden I am being threatened with a debt collection agency and that my (non-existant) credit rating may be affected. I could be blacklisted woooooo, bailiffs, possibly wooooo scared now

Well the effing cheek - this coming from a wbank who refused me an education loan a couple of years back BECAUSE I didn't have a credit rating full stop as I have never borrowed for anything.
Am about to set up a standing order of 10c a week just to píss them off, see how they like that, bank of fúck you!

dirtyden · 04-09-2012 10:49PM

You were overdrawn on your bank account. Your bank warned you that you were overdrawn.

Yes OP you are right the country is going to hell in a handcart. Imagine banks letting you know that your account is overdrawn. What next??

kowloon · 04-09-2012 10:54PM

I got a letter from a letting agency in the UK about a debt of less than £10 (I can't remember how much, but I have the letter somewhere). It stated that legal action would be taken if the money wasn't paid. There was nothing in place to monitor the amount, the letters were sent automatically.

I went in to their office and made a big pleading case not to be taken to court and how it was all just a mistake. When they could get my name out of all the confusion they looked up my account, laughs were had, there was bonding and we all grew as people.

dotsman · 04-09-2012 11:06PM

Sky King wrote: »

I fully accept the account should not be overdrawn and it's down to bad timing on my part (withdrawing just a little too much cash just before a couple of standing orders went out).

Other than this totally insignificant blip, my history is flawless, and I have 20 years of impeccable credit history with this bank. Not only this, but I put thousands through this account monthly.

My main problems are

1) None of the above seems to be worth a fking sh!t to my bank, they don't give a tuppenny fk about me, my long standing customer loyalty to their company through good times and bad, and my virtually perfect credit history.

2) Sending out a letter offering debt mediation for a €13 overdraft makes them and their business look unbelievably fking stupid... even if it IS an automated letter. As another poster pointed out, a human wrote the rules for the automation and he or she decided at that point that any overdraft, no matter how small or short lived is worth a snooty automatic generic letter and this is wrong... very very wrong.

Yes, just like a human designed pretty much every till system to generate a receipt, regardless of whether the customer is actually looking for it or not. It's very simple, everybody gets the same letter, regardless of past history, their financial standing or how hot they are - it's the same letter.

Now, if you think it's snooty, that's a personal opinion. Perhaps if you want to put up the content here for people to judge (minus any personal info), but as I said, the intention is of sending the letter is good on all counts, and is not intended to offend you!

D1stant · 04-09-2012 11:19PM

dotsman wrote: »

Yes, just like a human designed pretty much every till system to generate a receipt, regardless of whether the customer is actually looking for it or not. It's very simple, everybody gets the same letter, regardless of past history, their financial standing or how hot they are - it's the same letter.

Now, if you think it's snooty, that's a personal opinion. Perhaps if you want to put up the content here for people to judge (minus any personal info), but as I said, the intention is of sending the letter is good on all counts, and is not intended to offend you!

Can I call into your branch to discuss this in person?

dotsman · 05-09-2012 12:46AM

D1stant wrote: »

Can I call into your branch to discuss this in person?

MadsL · 05-09-2012 12:54AM

syklops wrote: »

Yes, write back and ask to have a meeting with them to discuss your circumstances, and to agree a repayment strategy. I would be interested to see what you get back.

EDIT: This reminds me. Years ago, my dad got a bill from the ESB for Zero pounds and Zero pence. He ignored it. Every month for about 3 months it came in, the same bill Zero pounds and Zero pence. Then on the fourth month, he got a letter saying "This is a final reminder for your account, if you do not pay, your services will be cut off". So he sent in a Cheque for zero pounds and zero pence. He got a phonecall a few days later from the IT department apologising for the inconvenience of the letters. Apparently, when he sent back the cheque for Zero pounds, zero pence, the billing computer system hung when trying to figure out how to add zeros.

Your dad did this, or he told you he did this? What other tall tales has he filled your head with? I call shenanigans...
http://www.snopes.com/business/bank/zero.asp

AskMyChocolate · 05-09-2012 01:47AM

You should just bite the bullet OP, hand back the keys, and try to start again somewhere like Australia or Canada. I realise it will be difficult leaving your friends and family and taking the kids out of school and all, but, at the end of the day there's no point ruining your life, trying to struggle out from under this mountain of debt, which you know in your heart of hearts, you can never possibly repay.

Bon voyage, my friend. And best of luck with all your future endeavours, wherever you decide to go, and whatever you decide to do.

Choco.

mcmoustache · 05-09-2012 02:14AM

MadsL wrote: »

Your dad did this, or he told you he did this? What other tall tales has he filled your head with? I call shenanigans...
http://www.snopes.com/business/bank/zero.asp

I write/maintain software - specifically, an accounting package. One of the packages that I wrote was the sales ledger which includes an automated reminder letters program. In simple terms, reminder letters get created for customers if their balance is greater than zero after their payment due date.

Here's the science bit:

Being software, due to floating point precision, sequences of calculations involving basic arithmetic can lead to a zero being something like 0.00000000000000002394. As a developer I get around this by clever rounding at the right times.

If however, I somehow left out some of this rounding, let's say, at the point where I select my records from the database, while rounding them for the horrible Crystal Reports that I generate, then people could easily receive reminder letters for effectively zero-balances. It would be poor coding on my part and I'd expect that someone is paid to throw their eyes over these things before they get sent out but it's not inconceivable that this could happen.

In fact, I'm tempted to do this just to prove snopes and MadsL wrong

.

EDIT - After actually reading the snopes link, I see that they cover my scenario. I guess I'll need to wait until next time before I can prove snopes wrong

.

EDIT 2 - Also, not much software would crash due to a zero-value payment.

Wompa1 · 05-09-2012 02:57AM

mcmoustache wrote: »

I write/maintain software - specifically, an accounting package. One of the packages that I wrote was the sales ledger which includes an automated reminder letters program. In simple terms, reminder letters get created for customers if their balance is greater than zero after their payment due date.

Here's the science bit:

Being software, due to floating point precision, sequences of calculations involving basic arithmetic can lead to a zero being something like 0.00000000000000002394. As a developer I get around this by clever rounding at the right times.

If however, I somehow left out some of this rounding, let's say, at the point where I select my records from the database, while rounding them for the horrible Crystal Reports that I generate, then people could easily receive reminder letters for effectively zero-balances. It would be poor coding on my part and I'd expect that someone is paid to throw their eyes over these things before they get sent out but it's not inconceivable that this could happen.

In fact, I'm tempted to do this just to prove snopes and MadsL wrong .

EDIT - After actually reading the snopes link, I see that they cover my scenario. I guess I'll need to wait until next time before I can prove snopes wrong .

EDIT 2 - Also, not much software would crash due to a zero-value payment.

Rounding down eh? and depositing the difference into your own account? becareful where you put that decimal place my friend!

In Exile · 05-09-2012 05:00AM

Sky King wrote: »

I fully accept the account should not be overdrawn and it's down to bad timing on my part (withdrawing just a little too much cash just before a couple of standing orders went out).

Other than this totally insignificant blip, my history is flawless, and I have 20 years of impeccable credit history with this bank. Not only this, but I put thousands through this account monthly.

My main problems are

1) None of the above seems to be worth a fking sh!t to my bank, they don't give a tuppenny fk about me, my long standing customer loyalty to their company through good times and bad, and my virtually perfect credit history.

2) Sending out a letter offering debt mediation for a €13 overdraft makes them and their business look unbelievably fking stupid... even if it IS an automated letter. As another poster pointed out, a human wrote the rules for the automation and he or she decided at that point that any overdraft, no matter how small or short lived is worth a snooty automatic generic letter and this is wrong... very very wrong.

What you have to understand though is every time you overdraw your account you are incurring charges.
You have signed a contract when you opened the account to say you will keep it in proper working order at all times. (Now I know you use it properly but having worked in a bank myself it is nothing to do with the human side of things). There are automated credit ratings. Each time you go over your limit/overdraw your account/miss a SO or DD then your rating is affected.

While I do agree with you that 13 Euro is a bit of a joke, but what would you have said if it was, say, 50-60 Euro? To most people that would be nothing and it would be wiped out the next time their wages/dole came through but I've seen how badly things can spread from being 50 Euro overdrawn to suddenly watching someone in serious trouble.

Even when the O/D fee is charged and interest for being over, you will only owe at the most 20. But assume that was someone who was on the dole and they got 100 p/w. Suddenly that 20 is a large portion of their week.

The bank is covering their a*s. Simple as that. They have to be seen to be proactive in helping customers avoid debt.

Consider yourself lucky you can laugh at the letter.

hardCopy · 05-09-2012 05:59AM

dotsman wrote: »

Sky King wrote: »

I fully accept the account should not be overdrawn and it's down to bad timing on my part (withdrawing just a little too much cash just before a couple of standing orders went out).

Other than this totally insignificant blip, my history is flawless, and I have 20 years of impeccable credit history with this bank. Not only this, but I put thousands through this account monthly.

My main problems are

1) None of the above seems to be worth a fking sh!t to my bank, they don't give a tuppenny fk about me, my long standing customer loyalty to their company through good times and bad, and my virtually perfect credit history.

2) Sending out a letter offering debt mediation for a €13 overdraft makes them and their business look unbelievably fking stupid... even if it IS an automated letter. As another poster pointed out, a human wrote the rules for the automation and he or she decided at that point that any overdraft, no matter how small or short lived is worth a snooty automatic generic letter and this is wrong... very very wrong.

Yes, just like a human designed pretty much every till system to generate a receipt, regardless of whether the customer is actually looking for it or not. It's very simple, everybody gets the same letter, regardless of past history, their financial standing or how hot they are - it's the same letter.

Now, if you think it's snooty, that's a personal opinion. Perhaps if you want to put up the content here for people to judge (minus any personal info), but as I said, the intention is of sending the letter is good on all counts, and is not intended to offend you!

Point is, there is absolutely no reason for everyone to get a "generic" letter.

It would be very easy to send a more subtle notification of smaller o/d's without recommending debt mediation for every overdrawn customer.

You just trigger different letters for different thresholds.

sunflower27 · 05-09-2012 07:59AM

I would have to frame that... and then take a photo of it and send it to the guy at the bank named on it asking him to give me a call when suits him to work out a payment plan.

Pawwed Rig · 05-09-2012 08:02AM

hardCopy wrote: »

Point is, there is absolutely no reason for everyone to get a "generic" letter.

It would be very easy to send a more subtle notification of smaller o/d's without recommending debt mediation for every overdrawn customer.

You just trigger different letters for different thresholds.

It would be easier to offer an automatic grace period for long term customers with good credit.

Sky King · 05-09-2012 08:21AM

This:

It would be very easy to send a more subtle notification of smaller o/d's without recommending debt mediation for every overdrawn customer.

And this:

...... offer an automatic grace period for long term customers with good credit.

I agree with. And with respect to this:

I would have to frame that... and then take a photo of it and send it to the guy at the bank named on it asking him to give me a call when suits him to work out a payment plan.

This:

I was going to just draw a wang on it and send it back to him

hardCopy · 05-09-2012 09:39AM

Sky King wrote: »

This:

It would be very easy to send a more subtle notification of smaller o/d's without recommending debt mediation for every overdrawn customer.

And this:

...... offer an automatic grace period for long term customers with good credit.

I agree with. And with respect to this:

I would have to frame that... and then take a photo of it and send it to the guy at the bank named on it asking him to give me a call when suits him to work out a payment plan.

This:

I was going to just draw a wang on it and send it back to him

David Thorne would have great fun with those guys

Debt Mediation for €13 overdraft?

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