Ruair Quinn and his ahem advisors

Feeona · 04-09-2012 09:50AM

I felt a bit for poor Ruairí when he was asked did he ever use a dept credit card to pay for a family meal in McDonalds when he was last in office*. I felt for him again when he was going around in circles trying to explain why he didn't give an emphatic answer of 'YES' or 'NO' to the question!

I wouldn't do a politicians job for love nor money! Imagine trying to remember if you used a credit card during the 90's to pay for what probably amounted to a £15 meal?

The whole programme reminded me of 'The Thick of It' which will hopefully make a return this year \o/

*The guy asking the question was referring to the time when Ruairí was in office during the 90's. A voiceover then informed us that McDonalds didn't take credit cards during the 90's

gigawatt2007 · 04-09-2012 11:21AM

I have to say I was very impressed by the meetings that the Department of Education and it's Secretary generals were having with the likes of the Parent's council and other parties.

I expected these meetings to be hour after hour of sh'te talk and schmoozing but was pleasantly surprised to see a real hardline approach to budget cutting. Thought it was brilliant when the Secretary general to the right of Quinn turned around to the Parent's Council and said "well where would you find X amount in savings then" and the tumbleweed just rolled by.

Would totally agree with the thoughts on the younger advisor, I reckon these guys are only there for drafting speeches and photocopying. I think the 2 aul wans in his office keep them on a tight rein. Your man with the beard will be seen in the upper echelons of the Labour Party a la Colm Keaveney by 2025.

Finally, the comment about the gang sharing a few bottles of 120 was rubbish. If the documentary showed anything is that the civil service at that level plays a very important role in Irish society and is very stressful on those involved and the least they're entitled is a few glasses of wine at Christmas. And let it be noted that they did so in their own building and weren't off boozing in a wine bar like most private companies.

Boombastic · 04-09-2012 11:25AM

Pride Fighter wrote: »

What show where you watching? The tears in the eyes of the teachers were real, they're hardly protesting to keep their cushy pay packets as you put it.

They are fighting for the wellbeing of our nations young. But I suppose you cannot see that due to your ridiculous ideology.

Go and watch a Ron Paul video and stay out of this thread.

Brilliant, absolutely brilliant. Tears in their eyes over the welfare of the children:pac:

You just made my day:D

Show Time · 04-09-2012 11:45AM

I wonder would Norway rent us Andres Brevick to work his magic on young FG and Labour.

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Show Time banned for this post.

mackg · 04-09-2012 11:53AM

Sir Pompous Righteousness wrote: »

Because ultimately, where does the money go? Ultimately, it trickles down to classrooms/ lecture theaters all over the country, or at least that's it's intention. Who better to advise the Minister on the allocation of vital funding for educational resources (bar salaries of teachers of course, we all know the slippery slope that could lead to) than teachers/lecturers themselves who direct the classroom. It's the people on the ground who know where the funding is needed, not bureaucrats.

I don't know about this. If you asked every teacher in a school what was most badly needed you would probably get different answers from all of them relevant to their particular positions.

Also if 80% of the budget goes on salaries and pensions, then you take away even more for costs like light, heat and building maintenance etc. What proportion of the departments budget is actually left to be spent as they see fit? Einhard, you're a teacher do you have some idea of this?

GetWithIt · 04-09-2012 11:59AM

Einhard wrote: »

He had a point. The fact that there are seven schools on the Dingle peninsula is ludicrous and an example of gross ineffiecencies in government spending in Ireland. Try pointing that out however, and you're against rural communities, or hate farmers, or whatever idiotic statement that can be flung by people who are determined to ignore the fact that serious reforms and cutbacks need to be made, not just in education, bit right across the board.

This point is made time and again. And I think that's the problem.

There is always a sense of "The little people just don't understand. We're making these tough decisions and it's your fault if you can't get what we're telling you."

There was this moment where Quinn was giving a speech at one of the Union meetings and the advisers were sitting with the protestors standing behind them with their placards and you could just see them almost mouthing every word of the speech.

The Department keep saying there are good reasons why these schools must close and anecdotal scenarios are related but wouldn't it be more enlightening, and disarming, if the information was made available in it's entirety?

There are good reasons why these schools are being closed. Make that available. Display simply on a map all the schools. Indicate which ones are being closed. Show what their current students/teacher/budget is.

Don't tell us that there are 7 schools west of Dingle and have a good chuckle. Demonstrate it. Illustrate why these decisions are being made.

MagicMarker · 04-09-2012 12:11PM

Show Time wrote: »

I wonder would Norway rent us Andres Brevick to work his magic on young FG and Labour.

Is that supposed to be funny?

TheChizler · 04-09-2012 12:19PM

The only thing that I was disappointed in was the structure of the budget meetings, there seemed to be no chair/organiser, seemed more like a group of people having a discussion down the pub. I used to sit in on budget meetings for a large multinational last year, everyone was either feeding proposals into financial models on their laptops or scribbling away, completely structured and worthwhile.

Did it annoy anyone else about what one lady said? The one who said she would never use the ministerial car for fear of it becoming public and her name slated in the headlines? She said she would rather walk than avail of the service. It's not a good sign that people are afraid to do their job the most efficient way (they could be working in the back of the car, or just getting places faster) for fear of what amounts to a public shaming.

hawkwind23 · 04-09-2012 12:32PM

the entire system is failing.
what angered me is the ridiculous scenario whereby a TD and a few advisers are threw together to form minister for education.
could of been any of them.
im no educated expert on such complex issues such as politics.
however i feel i am able to judge on what i perceive and i dont think the way Ireland is going is going to suit "the children"
is that not what its about? education?

to highlight my point , look at the two advisers mentioned throughout the thread.
glad to see the best educated young men in the country shining the beacon of light for education in Ireland.
all those bits of paper made them fine young men , proud of them!
what heroes , future leaders of Ireland , soon to be rewarded with the salaries and pensions they deserve for their wit and empathy toward the people they serve.
ah sure wont you all vote them in for it in due course.

good luck

Feeona · 04-09-2012 01:14PM

TheChizler wrote: »

Did it annoy anyone else about what one lady said? The one who said she would never use the ministerial car for fear of it becoming public and her name slated in the headlines? She said she would rather walk than avail of the service. It's not a good sign that people are afraid to do their job the most efficient way (they could be working in the back of the car, or just getting places faster) for fear of what amounts to a public shaming.

And that is the toughest part of working in the public eye. Any little thing you do can be taken out of context and exaggerated beyond recognition. Doesn't matter if the person doing the shaming drinks twenty pints a day, while leaving his/her kids outside the pub to fend for themselves, if someone in the public eye even has so much as a whiff of corruption about them, imagined or otherwise, it's Joe Duffy time!

Show Time · 04-09-2012 02:13PM

MagicMarker wrote: »

Is that supposed to be funny?

The country is in the s**t so black humour suits the mood.:rolleyes:

Idbatterim · 04-09-2012 02:23PM

couldnt believe it when i heard the younger of the guys saying "sh**te" at a meeting and on camera :eek:

ejmaztec · 04-09-2012 02:30PM

Show Time wrote: »

I wonder would Norway rent us Andres Brevick to work his magic on young FG and Labour.

They're already shooting themselves in the feet so Brevick won't be needed.

maringo · 04-09-2012 02:47PM

Watched the programme and have to say wasn't too impressed with it.

On the other hand I do feel that Quinn is doing a good job so far tbh.

mikom · 04-09-2012 02:51PM

Gareth Keenan investigates.

Feeona · 04-09-2012 03:32PM

mikom wrote: »

Gareth Keenan investigates.

That is to say 'Gareth Keenan Invetigates' :pac:

araic88 · 04-09-2012 07:09PM

Those two young advisors came across SO badly I thought.
I know it's just a minor thing but printing the Facebook picture to have an aul laugh during work really got my goat. In our school photocopying is now virtually non-existent even when there's a genuine need, because the budget is so tight, which the staff understand. We certainly don't have the time, ink or paper to be printing off rubbish for a 'chuckle'. I only wonder was he ON facebook while at work :mad:
Also doubt he's ever BEEN to the Dingle peninsula.

When some of the DEIS cuts were reversed I thought it was because RQ had seen sense - turns out he'd been warned "that'll be your medical card"

Finally, RQ was driven alone to the conferences but the others were there too. I hope they weren't all driven seperately, the drivers are paid €5,000+ more than newly qualified teachers

Even though I'd imagine they have very irregular hours & have to wait around for conferences etc. to finish (and then listen to RQ and his repetitive music...) but I can't see them needing much more than a driver's license for their job...

Pumpkinseeds · 04-09-2012 07:19PM

Christ its bloody shocking. 80% of the education budget being spent on salaries. 70% of the health budget being spent on salaries. Its time to get rid of the fecking unions.

The Volt · 04-09-2012 10:02PM

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

Christ its bloody shocking. 80% of the education budget being spent on salaries. 70% of the health budget being spent on salaries. Its time to get rid of the fecking unions.

The major problem is the serious lack of investment in education as a whole. Also, amazing where a bit of union bashing is able to be fit into on boards these days.

Birroc · 04-09-2012 10:22PM

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

Christ its bloody shocking. 80% of the education budget being spent on salaries. 70% of the health budget being spent on salaries. Its time to get rid of the fecking unions.

At least most of the people in Education (outside the Dept admin) are doing value-add work (i.e. teaching).
From experience in the HSE, there are literally thousands of back-office positions that have zero value add roles which were just created when the health boards amalgamated and people needed something to do (instead of being let go which would have made more sense). Result is too many processes, too many communication channels and too much duplication.

Callan57 · 04-09-2012 10:31PM

IMO the two advisors are a pathetic pair of posers & I doubt they could advise on the location of the loo. They should be sent packing immediately especially after being caught misusing departmental facilities (the copier).

One thing I did learn from the prog though was that the opposition to consolidating or amalgamating small schools is because they loose teacher posts ... as I suspected it's feck all to do with the kids or the community or anyother nonsense just the pure & simple self interest of teachers.
I thought the deafening silence when Ruairi Quinn asked for alternatives to the proposed cuts was the most telling part of the programme ... I just wished they'd let the camera run a bit longer.

Maybe it's just his demeanor or the editing but I didn't get the impression of a minister getting to grips with his job .... he looked a bit shell shocked to be honest.

Sharpshooter · 05-09-2012 01:47AM

Show Time wrote: »

I wonder would Norway rent us Andres Brevick to work his magic on young FG and Labour.

Mod

Show Time banned for this post.

Mod

Show Time, do not post in this thread again when your ban is up!.

AskMyChocolate · 05-09-2012 03:11AM

Must say I'm surprised that nobody has posted about the real crux of the matter when it comes to the shocking incompetence of the two "advisors" or addressed Einhard's points.

It makes no odds what qualifications the lads have, and they don't need a background in education in order to do their jobs.

What is important is that they are supposed to be political advisors. The mind boggles.

The complete lack of tact, diplomacy and political awareness they displayed in front of a tv camera was truly staggering. The crass stupidity and political naivety displayed by the younger advisor was unbelievable. Joking about the shutting down of schools in Dingle when they'll be fighting for every seat in the next election and even now are trying to hold onto back benchers was amazing.

He might aswell have said "Let them eat cake". Did nobody tell either of them that appearances are just as important as substance when it comes to politics?

Any ten-year old,would have more political savvy, and could have told him to be careful what he said and how to behave in front of a camera. Came across as arrogant and insensitive and utterly unprofessional.

And did neither of them think to "advise" the minister on the level of creative control he should have before they decided which production company to allow the access to?

As I said, the mind boggles.

Fuinseog · 05-09-2012 09:18AM

araic88 wrote: »

Those two young advisors came across SO badly I thought.
I know it's just a minor thing but printing the Facebook picture to have an aul laugh during work really got my goat. In our school photocopying is now virtually non-existent even when there's a genuine need, because the budget is so tight, which the staff understand. We certainly don't have the time, ink or paper to be printing off rubbish for a 'chuckle'. I only wonder was he ON facebook while at work :mad:
Also doubt he's ever BEEN to the Dingle peninsula.

When some of the DEIS cuts were reversed I thought it was because RQ had seen sense - turns out he'd been warned "that'll be your medical card"

Finally, RQ was driven alone to the conferences but the others were there too. I hope they weren't all driven seperately, the drivers are paid €5,000+ more than newly qualified teachers Even though I'd imagine they have very irregular hours & have to wait around for conferences etc. to finish (and then listen to RQ and his repetitive music...) but I can't see them needing much more than a driver's license for their job...

I once worked in a school where teachers had to pay for the photocopying.

Ghost Buster · 05-09-2012 09:28AM

Birroc wrote: »

At least most of the people in Education (outside the Dept admin) are doing value-add work (i.e. teaching).
From experience in the HSE, there are literally thousands of back-office positions that have zero value add roles which were just created when the health boards amalgamated and people needed something to do (instead of being let go which would have made more sense). Result is too many processes, too many communication channels and too much duplication.

My wife works in a major hospital and can give out for hours about highly paid staff who cannot use a computer, clock each other in and out , have virtually empty offices as they have nothing for doing, intimidate lower workers if they ask too many questions about these dodgy practices etc etc.
Its amazingly frustrating:mad:

gigawatt2007 · 05-09-2012 09:35AM

This tactic by the Government of announcing a shocking cut - DEIS in Education and Homecare by Health then rolling back on the changes, is really p'ssing me off.

They're blatantly trying to show 'how bad it could be', paving the way for a cut elsewhere once they rollback.

Why the fcuk were'nt admin staff and consultant fees addressed first?

old boy · 05-09-2012 09:44AM

Voltwad wrote: »

The major problem is the serious lack of investment in education as a whole. Also, amazing where a bit of union bashing is able to be fit into on boards these days.

with 80% of the budget being spent on pay packets there is feck all left for investment.

The Volt · 05-09-2012 10:46AM

old boy wrote: »

with 80% of the budget being spent on pay packets there is feck all left for investment.

The Education budget is roughly €1.2bn. There are two problems here. There are a few hundred university and IT senior managers and presidents on over 100k a year, even going up over 200k. There's absolutely no way that that's justifiable.

The second problem is that we spend less on education that practically everywhere else in the EU. If we really do see it as the great liberator then we need to increase that budget substantially.

zaggashaffer · 05-09-2012 12:44PM

For all those ranting and raving about the Quinn's advisors, their salaries and official job titles are a matter of public record:

http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2011/12/13/00066.asp

Appointee Position Salary
John Walshe Special Adviser €92,672
Deirdre Grant Special Adviser €86,604
Ian O’Mara Personal Assistant €47,304
Neil Ward Personal Secretary €45,160

For those who don't remember names, the first guy was the older guy, named as "senior policy advisor", and is former Education Editor for the Indo.
The second name was the PR advisor who'd been out on maternity leave.
The third guy was the younger looking of the two, and was Quinn's PA in the previous Dail.
The fourth was the guy with the beard, who I believe worked as a party strategist of some type in Labour HQ before the election, and maintained a blog here: http://neilward.ie.

Any idiot knows that the job of a minister involves a whole lot more than creating policy - having people who can be your eyes and ears on the ground in the Oireachtas, with the Unions, and with the Media is essential for any Minister - and something that a civil servant is neither experienced in, nor would be expected to do. I don't think the salaries are particularly outrageous considering the hours required and the roles of the different individuals?

Pumpkinseeds · 05-09-2012 01:12PM

Voltwad wrote: »

The major problem is the serious lack of investment in education as a whole. Also, amazing where a bit of union bashing is able to be fit into on boards these days.

I am unashamedly and unapologetically anti union.

Ruair Quinn and his ahem advisors

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