History, Schmistory, bah, humbug!

ejmaztec · 03-09-2012 11:54AM

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

And in the same vein, somethign that is old isnt automatically historically significant.

That's Gay Byrne covered.

pickarooney · 03-09-2012 11:58AM

Shryke wrote: »

There was a thread on here probably a year back at least, maybe more. It really showed what a poor attitude some Irish people have for history and heritage. If I could remember the thread better I would find a link for it.
One post I still remember well was someone who had been working in construction during the boom boasting about how they found old Viking stuff while on site and just ploughed through/over it all. The wanker was so proud of the fact, I wished serious harm on him tbh. It sounded like it was more or less a given thing to do for some. Half wit cunt monkeys.

Yet if a Polish guy found some old Nazi gear on his site and did the same nobody would blame him.

Cienciano · 03-09-2012 11:59AM

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Maybe a developer could buy them and plan to build something only to be denied because of objections from the locals......................

Isn't that what happened in Dun Laoghaire? Now developers have no money, so the locals are left with an eyesore.

Mr. CooL ICE · 03-09-2012 12:00PM

It looks like utter crap and a home for junkies. Knock it down I say

coddlesangers · 03-09-2012 12:13PM

I swam in blackrock baths a good few times as a kid. They were a dump then, and shouldn't ever have been open to the public, given that you were basically swimming in ****E. Happy to see them demolished personally, I don't see them as an amenity or every likely to be so. In terms of the architectural significance, to me they are a reminder of how little care successive councils put into recreational facilities for de peeeeepppllleeee

Casillas · 03-09-2012 12:30PM

Here's why;

Government grants allowed the council to carry out emergency repairs to just one protected structure in 2011 and the council said it would be able to save a maximum of two in 2012.

One of the council’s most senior officials has described the Government’s funding for endangered historic buildings as “minuscule” and said Dublin was being treated in the same way as Leitrim, despite having far more protected structures.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0508/1224315744498.html

THE HERITAGE Council is “nearing a catastrophic point” due to “disproportionate” cuts which have seen its funding decrease significantly in recent years, the council’s chief executive said yesterday at the launch of the organisation’s 2011 annual report.

Michael Starrett said that, for every €1 spent by the Heritage Council on grant projects in 2011, the tourism industry benefited by €4.40.

However, he said a “background of disproportionate cuts” had resulted in a significant decrease in the number of overall projects supported by the council.

Mr Starrett said that, having received funding of €20 million in 2008, the council, the statutory body charged with identifying, protecting, preserving and enhancing Ireland’s national heritage, was now running on a budget of just €6 million.

“We’re nearing a catastrophic point,” Mr Starrett said.

“Things have been pared back so much. As you can see we’re down 65/70 per cent in terms of budget.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0628/1224318891464.html

Nodin · 03-09-2012 12:58PM

Casillas wrote: »

Here's why;
...................
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0628/1224318891464.html

However the neglect has been going on for a lot longer than the last two years.

Shryke · 03-09-2012 01:12PM

pickarooney wrote: »

Shryke wrote: »

There was a thread on here probably a year back at least, maybe more. It really showed what a poor attitude some Irish people have for history and heritage. If I could remember the thread better I would find a link for it.
One post I still remember well was someone who had been working in construction during the boom boasting about how they found old Viking stuff while on site and just ploughed through/over it all. The wanker was so proud of the fact, I wished serious harm on him tbh. It sounded like it was more or less a given thing to do for some. Half wit cunt monkeys.

Yet if a Polish guy found some old Nazi gear on his site and did the same nobody would blame him.

That's the weakest reply i've gotten in a while. Straight to the Nazis without blinking. Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler.

sbsquarepants · 03-09-2012 01:23PM

The problem here is that a lot of people don't realise the difference between historic and old. Not everything old is a historical gem that needs to be preserved, these baths being a case in point. They're just old shít - good riddance i say

Casillas · 03-09-2012 01:25PM

Nodin wrote: »

However the neglect has been going on for a lot longer than the last two years.

There was never enough invested in preservation, now even that small sum has been massively cut. Issues like this will only get much worse in the future.

LordSutch · 03-09-2012 02:22PM

By the way, did any of you fellow posters know that there used to be a Cable car on Bray head :eek:

Not much left of it now that its gone to rack and ruin since the 70s. All that remains is the concrete landing circle and some of the concrete anchors built into the rock further up the head. http://www.forthefainthearted.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/bray-cable-car-coca-cola.jpg

Precious flower · 03-09-2012 04:15PM

It would seem around the country people have to fight extremely hard to make sure historical sites are preserved and keep up. Of course during the boom it was all about building and spending as much as we could, so these historical artifacts and sites fell into disrepair.

asherbassad · 03-09-2012 04:55PM

southsiderosie wrote: »

Why don't Irish politicians care about preserving historical sites?

The Irish Times announced today that the Blackrock Baths were being demolished after falling into disrepair. This seems to be the latest in a long line of historical sites that were either left to rot until they could not be salvaged, built or paved over, privatized, or preserved in such a way that they lose much of their historical significance. Off the top of my head, the bid to build a motorway by Tara, the failure to purchase Lissadell House, and the building of council offices over the Viking site in Dublin stand out as particularly egregious examples.

For a country that touts itself as a place of history and culture, why does it seem that there are there so few attempts by elected officials to actually preserve that history? Or am I missing something here?

What a load of bollocks!
These baths are decrepit, ugly and dangerous. They should have been dynamited years ago. So people would flounder around in these baths back in the 1800's...big deal! Are you advocating preserving old abandoned factories and derelict mills just because they're old?

Teyla Emmagan · 03-09-2012 05:11PM

I was all 'that's desperate' until I saw the photos of the place. I honestly see nothing there worth preserving. The original structure might be oldish, but all that concrete crap should be razed entirely. Is there really anything here of historical or architrctural significance? We have more important places to preserve. Sad it was let get like that though.

super_furry · 03-09-2012 05:15PM

Still fail to see any historical significance about out-dated outdoor pools. If they spent the money to restore them to full use, just as they were when they were opened 150 years ago, people still wouldn't use them.

3ndahalfof6 · 03-09-2012 05:23PM

we are suppose to learn from history, Irish politicians seem to think they are better than history, who needs it, lets just do what we want to do and if it goes wrong no biggie, we are sorted so fook it.

super_furry · 03-09-2012 05:23PM

3ndahalfof6 wrote: »

we are suppose to learn from history, Irish politicians seem to think they are better than history, who needs it, lets just do what we want to do and if it goes wrong no biggie, we are sorted so fook it.

There is nothing historic about that site.

3ndahalfof6 · 03-09-2012 05:28PM

super_furry wrote: »

There is nothing historic about that site.

I bow.

Chuck Stone · 03-09-2012 06:00PM

Maybe one of our patriotic billionaires will pay to have it restored?

southsiderosie · 03-09-2012 06:40PM

asherbassad wrote: »

What a load of bollocks!
These baths are decrepit, ugly and dangerous. They should have been dynamited years ago. So people would flounder around in these baths back in the 1800's...big deal! Are you advocating preserving old abandoned factories and derelict mills just because they're old?

Wow would you calm down and actually read my post? I was amazed that they were allowed to fall into such disrepair - there was seemingly no choice but to tear them down at this point. I raised the issue of the baths because I don't understand why any government would let them get to the point where they were so decrepit and dangerous - which speaks to my broader point about Ireland and preservation.

And yes there is something to be said for using old facilities - they provide a sense of continuity and history to a neighborhood. McCarren Pool, which was built in the 1930s, re-opened in New York this year after being closed for 28 years, It is a lovely old facility that was originally built to be a center for community life in a time where city officials actually cared about that sort of thing.

As for mills, I live in an area where a lot of old textile mills have been repurposed into offices and residential lofts - if a site wasn't toxic, there is no reason why old buildings cannot be repurposed for modern use. The old buildings are certainly more sturdy than most of the slapdash construction today, that's for damn sure.

Galwayguy35 · 03-09-2012 06:40PM

southsiderosie wrote: »

Are you serious?

Tara isn't that special? Huh? Do you think the Basques would allow a developer to run a bicycle path, much less a road past the Tree of Guernica?

Lissadell House isn't that special? The home of Constance Markiewicz and Yeats' retreat? Do you think that the British would ever allow a private owner to buy Shakespeare's birthplace and then shut it off to the public?

You don't think it matters that the Dublin City Council dug up one of the original Viking sites and then still went on and plunked its office building down on top of it? Can you imagine the Italians digging up Pompeii, and then plunking a shopping mall on top of it?

Why do Irish officials care so little about the country's cultural patrimony?

Hold on a second, you started a thread about the Blackrock Baths and that is what I commented on, I never mentioned the other examples at all.

We have lots of nicely preserved historic sites in the Connaught area, take a drive down sometime and have a look around.

southsiderosie · 03-09-2012 06:48PM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Hold on a second, you started a thread about the Blackrock Baths and that is what I commented on, I never mentioned the other examples at all.

We have lots of nicely preserved historic sites in the Connaught area, take a drive down sometime and have a look around.

The main point of the thread isn't the Baths per se, it's the fact that politicians do not seem to care about maintaining historical sites (and yes some people would see the Blackrock Baths as a historical site that was simply left to rot until it couldn't be salvaged). Hence why I mentioned multiple sites other than the BB in the OP.

oppenheimer1 · 03-09-2012 07:55PM

southsiderosie wrote: »

Are you serious?

Tara isn't that special? Huh? Do you think the Basques would allow a developer to run a bicycle path, much less a road past the Tree of Guernica?

Lissadell House isn't that special? The home of Constance Markiewicz and Yeats' retreat? Do you think that the British would ever allow a private owner to buy Shakespeare's birthplace and then shut it off to the public?

You don't think it matters that the Dublin City Council dug up one of the original Viking sites and then still went on and plunked its office building down on top of it? Can you imagine the Italians digging up Pompeii, and then plunking a shopping mall on top of it?

Why do Irish officials care so little about the country's cultural patrimony?

You are misinformed in relation to Tara, but Wood Quay was a mistake.

You do have to remember that the country has to work for the people that live in it now, not those that lived thousands of years ago.

As for the Baths, concrete doesn't weather well in a chloride environment, there would have been no way to save these without a demolition and rebuild. There is nothing of historical or architectural significance to save and its an eyesore. Time to let it go.

Goro · 03-09-2012 08:00PM

the groutch wrote: »

don't think it would have been a good idea to restore them.
it would just be another outlet for the unsavoury type who descend on Sandycove or Bray via the DART whenever the weather is anyway decent.

There are unsavory types FROM these areas too you know.

fly_agaric · 03-09-2012 08:59PM

southsiderosie wrote: »

Why don't Irish politicians care about preserving historical sites?

No money in it for their pals.

The costs in preserving are upfront and obvious in a govt. department or council's bottom line, the benefits are more diffuse.

Also IMO "historical sites" in dirty nasty cities are not part of the "Real Ireland" in opinion of many of our rural politicians and those that vote for them so can (usually) be safely left to rot!

expectationlost · 07-09-2012 03:43PM

see this proposal for the dun laoighaire baths, impressive but note no actually in the sea sea baths, ,says athey were hard to keep up and may not have been that sucessful in design in the first place

http://www.dlrcoco.ie/media/media,5692,en.pdf

History, Schmistory, bah, humbug!

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