Liverpool FC Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2012/13

If it's ground duels and tackles we need to win, Henderson is better placed to replace him than Shelvey. But suspect it will be Stevie, Allen and Sahin more often than not...

Yeah it was noted in a tactical breakdown of the game I read that Gerrard dropped in often beside Allen to help provide some of the defensive steel and cover lost by Lucas. Whether he will show that discipline over the coming months I don't know and I'm not sure I would even want him to.

Opr

Chucky the tree wrote: »

He had to drop in because we were getting dominated in the first 20 means and because Gerrard tends not to do much tracking back.

It was also his job to do it, as Shelvey is more effective pushing up, and with Borini out wide, he needed to stay central.

Mr Alan wrote: »

No need to compound that shafting by getting shafted again in getting rid, taking a bigger loss than we should & leaving ourselves short up front.

Interesting comparison I saw earlier - Fergie signed Berbatov for £30M and is selling for £4M. No one has anything to say about that.

Just shows, some managers are allowed to fail big occasionaly (Bebe? Tosic?) as long as they succeed overall...

Liverpool's style under Rodgers obviously seems to focus on ball retention, accurate passing, not being pressured when on the ball. Jay Spearing, for the life of him, cannot work in that system. He's a liability and in over his head, which isn't his fault, of course. I hope he does well where he goes, but I do hope he goes.

Dickerty wrote: »

Just shows, some managers are allowed to fail big occasionaly (Bebe? Tosic?) as long as they succeed overall...

and rightly so.

it's why Rafa was forgiven by most for the likes of Pennant and Nunez.

Arseblog wrote:

My understanding of events is that at the beginning of last season, when Walcott had two years left on his deal, we made attempts to discuss a new contract but were rebuffed as they wanted to wait until the end of the season to see where Arsenal finished and whether or not the club had Champions League football. I have to say I found this understandable, to an extent, but somewhat presumptuous from Walcott whose standing in the game is as much based on his clean-cut English marketability than his footballing ability.

And this, for me, is the crux of the matter. Walcott would certainly improve the squad, we are in no position to turn up our noses at someone like him, but for 12m plus his wages I would be confident of better value being found in the European market.

I posted yesterday about the value that's been found there this season, and last year was even better for it imo, so it's definitely an avenue I'd rather the club went down.

Thankfully, under Rodgers and the new scouting personnel, it seems that this is exactly what the club intend on doing at the moment.

wonderfullife wrote: »

Lucas is fast become the modern Darren Anderton. Harsh perhaps but it's starting to look like an injury ravaged career.

Jaysus. I'm hoping he was just rushed back this time and that it'll all be better soon.

Mr Alan wrote: »

whatawaster wrote: »

If we were shafted it was when we bought him.

No need to compound that shafting by getting shafted again in getting rid, taking a bigger loss than we should & leaving ourselves short up front.

If we aren't going to use him enough or the manager doesn't want him then we should sell to the highest bidder and replace him imo. Doing otherwise would be silly

Dickerty wrote: »

Not true, he was out most successful tackler in midfield according to here - http://www.eplindex.com/15811/liverpool-opta-stats-season-review-1112-part-midfield.html

But yes, not on ground duels. Hard to see how you can be top on one count and bottom on the other, should think they are complimentary...

I disagree that he has no influence, he so often get pushed out to the right. For England U21, he certainly looks more commanding, usually in the middle. I would still play Shelvey for his goal threat and quicker movement of the ball, but I don't discount what Hendo can do...

They are misleading facts, Kess himself posted in detail in the past, I'm sure, about this highlighting where Henderson was actually quite poor in terms of tackling duels.

I don't quite have the same knowledge as he does on it, so maybe find the post or hopefully Kess will throw out the stats again.

What he seems decent on is nicking the ball away at times but I certainly wouldn't be relying on him to provide any sort of grit or steel to the team. He'd be bullied out of it all day long if he was our ball winning midfielder.

Dickerty wrote: »

Not true, he was out most successful tackler in midfield according to here - http://www.eplindex.com/15811/liverpool-opta-stats-season-review-1112-part-midfield.html

But yes, not on ground duels. Hard to see how you can be top on one count and bottom on the other, should think they are complimentary...

I disagree that he has no influence, he so often get pushed out to the right. For England U21, he certainly looks more commanding, usually in the middle. I would still play Shelvey for his goal threat and quicker movement of the ball, but I don't discount what Hendo can do...

I said he was one of the worst in terms of the amount of tackles he attempted not in the % of tackles won.

In terms of tackles attempted per game he is one of the worst at the club.

Using the same link that you put up it is very clear that Henderson does not eneter into many tackles over the course of a game and likewise with ground duels. Lucas attempts three to four times more tackles per game than Henderson and he attempts ground duels twice as often. Henderson is just not up to doing such a physical role.

As for his influence, I am talking about Henderson playing for Liverpool and not the England under 21s. In a Liverpool shirt he has shown very little by way of influence on a game and he has certainly not shown the ability to try and take a game or even other players by the scruff of the neck on even a semi regular basis from any of the positions he has played in.

I would say that Allen in his short Liverpool career has shown more drive, aggression and influence on games than the same aged Henderson did for Liverpool in all of last season.

Allen is far superior than him. Sahin is a far superior player than him. Gerrard is far superior than him. Shelvel is better than him imho in terms of ability and light years ahead of him in terms of confidence.

I see no need for Henderson in the first team, even with Lucas out, save for league cup games and Europa league games against weaker teams. When it comes to the CM and AM slots there are at least four players available for those roles that are better than Henderson and less likely to hide, and when Lucas returms then there will be five players better than him available for the three slots. All Henderson is now is squad cover and given that Allen is the same age as him and Shelvey is younger, Henderson may never make it into the full team as a regular for big games and be a regular for league games like he was last season .

I'd rather see gerrard used further forward than defensively as for me he is the best finisher in the club

sorry, but fúck me, that promo is cringetastic.