Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 12/13

aidan24326 · 28-08-2012 12:16PM

Roger Sterling wrote: »

While its nice that Berbs took being dropped so well Id prefer to see a bit of fire in his belly. Show that you want it man.

If he had shiwn the attitude all the time that he dud in games like Everton away the year before last he'd still be first choice.

I think he needs to wske up and realuse hes not wanted anymore.

I'd agree. He shouldn't really be 'ok with it' and happy to stay around. Being left out of the CL Final squad should really have been the final straw for Berbatove, a flashing neon sign that he's not really wanted anymore.

Personally I think he's been treated a bit shabbily by Sir Alex. After all it was SAF who saw fit to shell out 28M on him, so if Berba hasn't justified the price tag then Ferguson himself has to shoulder at least some of the blame. In saying that I don't think Berbatov has been all that bad really, when given a run in the team he's delivered on many occasions, and I'm not sure why SAF has turned against him so much.

Notorious · 28-08-2012 12:17PM

s.welstead wrote: »

Season before last he should have been POTY but didn't even get a look in. Instead the likes of Bale and Parker etc. after a couple of good matches did. FFS like Scott bleedin Parker!!! :mad:

It's crazy how little praise he gets. He's easily in our top 4/5 players and only that low due to the arrivals of RvP and Kagawa. And in his position up there with the best.

Agreed. The English media will always big up the British players over foreign players and I've always thought Nani was subject to this. I'm fed up hearing about Joe Hart being one of the worlds best players. Newsflash - he isn't.

Paul Tergat · 28-08-2012 12:19PM

s.welstead wrote: »

I think a lot of people who don't rate/consider Nani inconsistent listen to the general bs media too much.
He's never had much good publicity and I think that plays a huge part.
Season before last he should have been POTY but didn't even get a look in. Instead the likes of Bale and Parker etc. after a couple of good matches did. FFS like Scott bleedin Parker!!! :mad:

It's crazy how little praise he gets. He's easily in our top 4/5 players and only that low due to the arrivals of RvP and Kagawa. And in his position up there with the best.

Aye agree with all of this. The consistency argument held pre 2010 but since then he's been one of our most consistent performance and has stepped up for us.

Some are talking about inconsistency last season but his injuries really didnt help and with 2 wingers in direct competition its going to mean more rotation which makes being consistent much more difficult

Danye · 28-08-2012 12:27PM

DM-ICE wrote: »

I feel bad for Berbatov. He didn't really do anything wrong yet finds himself in a bad place. Last time he was about to move he had two clubs fighting over a 30 million transfer and now hardly any teams seem to want him. But he is pretty much the same player. Age wouldn't really impact on him as he was not reliant on anything like pace.

I hope a champions league side comes in for him.

But he also didn't do a whole lot right hence the reason he has fallen down the pecking order!

Also the fact that nobody is really pushed on buying him says a lot.

Roger Sterling wrote: »

While its nice that Berbs took being dropped so well Id prefer to see a bit of fire in his belly. Show that you want it man.

If he had shiwn the attitude all the time that he dud in games like Everton away the year before last he'd still be first choice.

I think he needs to wske up and realuse hes not wanted anymore.

MagicMarker wrote: »

I think he's well aware of that, and to be fair you don't have a clue how much "fire" he has in his belly.

I think it's fairly obvious when you watch him. He is a very talented player with such an astute football brain that if he did have a good atitude and or "fire in his belly" he would still be in the mix. Instead he finds himself 5th choice striker.

homerjay2005 wrote: »

ya, i just dont get the hatred of Nani at all. he is one of our best players and over the past 3 years, has proven himself considerably.

its like people have latched onto other clubs hating him and have been brainwashed into hating him too.

if he has been acting the prat off the field then so be it, but thats only come to light after saturday, the hatred towards him has been there for a long long time now.

I think hatred is a strong word mate. I know plenty of United fans who find him infuriating alright but certainly don't hate him.

s.welstead wrote: »

I think a lot of people who don't rate/consider Nani inconsistent listen to the general bs media too much.
He's never had much good publicity and I think that plays a huge part.
Season before last he should have been POTY but didn't even get a look in. Instead the likes of Bale and Parker etc. after a couple of good matches did. FFS like Scott bleedin Parker!!! :mad:

It's crazy how little praise he gets. He's easily in our top 4/5 players and only that low due to the arrivals of RvP and Kagawa. And in his position up there with the best.

I would question why he never has good publicity then? Why do you feel he has never got good publicity from United fans and opposition fans?

Maximus Alexander · 28-08-2012 12:36PM

Danye wrote: »

I would question why he never has good publicity then? Why do you feel he has never got good publicity from United fans and opposition fans?

In my view it's because he's a flair player. I remember people having a similar attitude towards Ronaldo when he was still at United (not saying Nani is on the same level as Ronaldo).

Seems like people in Britain and Ireland only like flair players when they play in Spain or Brazil. If he tries something, and it doesn't come off, he gets abuse. All the times he produces magic are quickly forgotten.

Duck Soup · 28-08-2012 12:40PM

As a Chelsea fan, I have to ask a genuine question of United fans, one that I've discussed with a few United supporters I know. Will Rooney stay at the top of his game for another 5 years or so, or does his lifestyle (somewhat in the Andy Carroll mode I suppose) of beer, plenty of nosh and the occasional fag shorten his career? Also, does his all-action playing style make him more prone to picking up injuries that take their toll?

It may be wishful thinking, so that he doesn't continue to score goals against us for the best part of another decade, but I can't shake the feeling that he could be on a downward trajectory in terms of effectiveness by the time he's 28. SAF is not a sentimental man, and he'll move Rooney on quick enough if he spots the signs.

Danye · 28-08-2012 12:42PM

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

In my view it's because he's a flair player. I remember people having a similar attitude towards Ronaldo when he was still at United (not saying Nani is on the same level as Ronaldo).

Seems like people in Britain and Ireland only like flair players when they play in Spain or Brazil. If he tries something, and it doesn't come off, he gets abuse. All the times he produces magic are quickly forgotten.

At the start, maybe opposition fans hated him but I as a United fan never hated Ronaldo. Even in the early years.

But as Ronaldo progressed even some of my mates (Who would be die hard LPool fans) could not deny Ronaldo's brilliance and had no problem admiting it.

Cantona, Ginola, Bergkamp, Henry (I'm sure I'm forgetting loads) seemed to be well liked when playing across the pond??

Roger Sterling · 28-08-2012 12:43PM

MagicMarker wrote: »

Roger Sterling wrote: »

Anyone eho has ever seen him take to the field would see he has none!

Im not sure where all this affection fir him comes from. In terms of outlay and return he has been a pretty poor signing.

His style of play didn't seem to be a problem for us when we signed him. Seems a bit unfair to me to blame him for it now.

Fair enough point. As I said earlier the signing itself was a poor one.

I woukd reiterste though that there were games when Berbs led the line brilliantly and showed great urgency in his play. If such games had been the rule rather thsn the exception hes still be a big player at the club. He had it in him to be a superb striker but ge dudnt seem to show it hakf enough.

He was also poor st CL level, where a player of hus type shoulf be flourishing. I cant recall one display worthy of his price tag in that competition in his time.

DM_7 · 28-08-2012 12:43PM

Berbatov did plenty of things right on the field, scored plenty of goals and off the field it appears he was always professional (we don't see him running his mouth like some players). Thats why I say he hasn't done much wrong and its odd he find himself in the position he is today.

The idea he didn't do enough on the field may exist for some but I don't agree and will never agree with it. He scored goals, he played as he always had for Spurs and Leverkusen. If thats not what SAF wants from him fair enough, don't play him and move him on - but as said by others it asks the question why buy him to start with.

Jimmy Iovine · 28-08-2012 12:43PM

Danye wrote: »

I would question why he never has good publicity then? Why do you feel he has never got good publicity from United fans and opposition fans?

Because some people are stupid and fail to recognise a brilliant player when they see one (nobody on this thread, mainly people that I know myself). Also he's a pretty easy player to hate due to his histrionics on the pitch and the fact that he is very similar to Ronaldo (who was just as hated when he was here, until he got so good that people accepted his talent) with all of the flicks and tricks.

Oh and Sky Sports tell people that Bale is a better guy and a better player and people are willing to accept this without thinking for a second that Nani may be all of those things as well.

As some one said on this forum before, "he's a cúnt but he's our cúnt".

Roger Sterling · 28-08-2012 12:45PM

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Danye wrote: »

I would question why he never has good publicity then? Why do you feel he has never got good publicity from United fans and opposition fans?

In my view it's because he's a flair player. I remember people having a similar attitude towards Ronaldo when he was still at United (not saying Nani is on the same level as Ronaldo).

Seems like people in Britain and Ireland only like flair players when they play in Spain or Brazil. If he tries something, and it doesn't come off, he gets abuse. All the times he produces magic are quickly forgotten.

People dont like his diving and histrionics either. no probkem with it mysrlf but generally doesnt go down well.

Jimmy Iovine · 28-08-2012 12:49PM

Roger Sterling wrote: »

People dont like his diving and histrionics either. no probkem with it mysrlf but generally doesnt go down well.

Bale dives just as much, if not more, yet that is completely ignored. Bale isn't even good at it, it's as clear as day that he's doing it.

Al Capwned · 28-08-2012 12:49PM

Roger Sterling wrote: »

People dont like his diving and histrionics either. no probkem with it mysrlf but generally doesnt go down well.

To be fair, that drives me crazy looking at him.
Actually it's not just him, there are a few players that do it - I've sort of accepted the diving - I dont like it but it doesn't get me as animated as a player flailing his arms up and down when something doesn't go his way....

Your Airbag · 28-08-2012 12:49PM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

ya, i just dont get the hatred of Nani at all. he is one of our best players and over the past 3 years, has proven himself considerably.

its like people have latched onto other clubs hating him and have been brainwashed into hating him too.

if he has been acting the prat off the field then so be it, but thats only come to light after saturday, the hatred towards him has been there for a long long time now.

I don't think anyone hates Nani. Wrong choice of word. He flatters to decieve at times. Brainwashed? its not really an argument to use when someone has a differing opinion. I watch every game UTD play on TV every season bar the ones I attend and he goes missing some games. I am not being brainwashed by anyone, its right there for me to see. Even the most biased UTD fan would find it hard to agree he is consistent.

He scored 10 last season (40 apps) and 10 the season before (49 apps). Compare that to Young, who Nani is a much better player than, Young has 8 goals in 32 apps. Young would have gotten to 10 goals given 9 more games we can assume. Nani being the better player should then deliver more but is not fufilling that extra promise we see glimpses of. I think some of us are judging him to a different standard than our other wingers. Are we expecting to much from him? Maybe so. Should we just be happy for him to contribute as Young? Its hard to settle for this when we see his A game.

For example, Nani's preformance against Arsenal at the Emirates in January 2010, that was one of the best displays of individual attacking football I have seen from a UTD player. Pace, skill and end product. It had everything. Young and Val could do well but don't have that extra level to go up.

Its the dilemma, the other wingers can't do it but Nani can. We cant afford to take that from the team but maybe we can't expect it more often either.

The more I think about, the harsher we judge him. He's a victim of his own success I guess.

Danye · 28-08-2012 12:50PM

DM-ICE wrote: »

Berbatov did plenty of things right on the field, scored plenty of goals and off the field it appears he was always professional (we don't see him running his mouth like some players). Thats why I say he hasn't done much wrong and its odd he find himself in the position he is today.

The idea he didn't do enough on the field may exist for some but I don't agree and will never agree with it. He scored goals, he played as he always had for Spurs and Leverkusen. If thats not what SAF wants from him fair enough, don't play him and move him on - but as said by others it asks the question why buy him to start with.

Well if all this was to be true DM, why do you think he finds himself in the position he is in?

Jimmy Iovine wrote: »

Because some people are stupid and fail to recognise a brilliant player when they see one (nobody on this thread, mainly people that I know myself). Also he's a pretty easy player to hate due to his histrionics on the pitch and the fact that he is very similar to Ronaldo (who was just as hated when he was here, until he got so good that people accepted his talent) with all of the flicks and tricks.

Oh and Sky Sports tell people that Bale is a better guy and a better player and people are willing to accept this without thinking for a second that Nani may be all of those things as well.

As some one said on this forum before, "he's a cúnt but he's our cúnt".

Who has ever said that on Sky? The second bit made me

TheDoc · 28-08-2012 12:51PM

I think when Bale won that award over Nani, that signalled the outragous favouritism for British players.

Bale had less goals and less assists and was on a lengthy drought, Nani had been performing much better.

The media made a ****storm of Bale making a fool of Maicon who in my opinion is a dwindling force, where as Nani was tearing holes in any full back he came up against.

It was very much a reason to take awards as a pinch of salt.

I dont see Nani being sold, I think it was just a little kick up the arse for him, he hadn't played overly well pre season either.

Nani will be back and I'm sure will get a consistent run in the team. I know for me personally I've never bought into the Ashley Young hate and I think that is the absolute epitome of band wagon jumping. Another assist this weekend and still being called to be sold. I just dont get it, he had a pretty productive season last term after suffering a lengthy injury.

Danye · 28-08-2012 12:55PM

TheDoc wrote: »

I think when Bale won that award over Nani, that signalled the outragous favouritism for British players.

Bale had less goals and less assists and was on a lengthy drought, Nani had been performing much better.

The media made a ****storm of Bale making a fool of Maicon who in my opinion is a dwindling force, where as Nani was tearing holes in any full back he came up against.

It was very much a reason to take awards as a pinch of salt.

I dont see Nani being sold, I think it was just a little kick up the arse for him, he hadn't played overly well pre season either.

Nani will be back and I'm sure will get a consistent run in the team. I know for me personally I've never bought into the Ashley Young hate and I think that is the absolute epitome of band wagon jumping. Another assist this weekend and still being called to be sold. I just dont get it, he had a pretty productive season last term after suffering a lengthy injury.

I agree, the year Bale won it was a joke alright but what about the other years when foreign players won it over British players?

Also, I *think that the votes for the player of the year awards are cast in February or something? No? Bale did have a few very impressive games in the first half of the season which did capture peoples attention.

Maximus Alexander · 28-08-2012 12:59PM

Danye wrote: »

At the start, maybe opposition fans hated him but I as a United fan never hated Ronaldo. Even in the early years.

But as Ronaldo progressed even some of my mates (Who would be die hard LPool fans) could not deny Ronaldo's brilliance and had no problem admiting it.

Cantona, Ginola, Bergkamp, Henry (I'm sure I'm forgetting loads) seemed to be well liked when playing across the pond??

Fair enough, but I think it would be ludicrous for anyone to have denied Ronaldo's quality (and I feel the same about Nani).

Still, even at the height of his United career, if you were watching a match at the pub you'd have people spraying bile at the TV any time something didn't come off for Ronaldo.

You get the same with Nani, and it's something you don't see to quite the same extent when Rooney is having one of his games where he's spraying hollywood balls to nowhere and can't get a shot on target.

sob1467 · 28-08-2012 01:04PM

Just came across this video on youtube. Great watch.

Roger Sterling · 28-08-2012 01:06PM

I see Rafa Benitez is doing a book signing on 13th Sept in Easons. Gonna pop along with Fergie's autobiography with the dust cover off and try get him to sign it. Would be a pretty funny one to have.

"Dear Roger, Best Wishes and Enjoy the Book:

Rafa."

My friends did something similar a few years ago when he got David Ervine to sign his Gerry Adams autobiography.
:pac: :pac: :pac:

Giggsy11 · 28-08-2012 01:07PM

Your Airbag wrote: »

I don't think anyone hates Nani. Wrong choice of word. He flatters to decieve at times. Brainwashed? its not really an argument to use when someone has a differing opinion. I watch every game UTD play on TV every season bar the ones I attend and he goes missing some games. I am not being brainwashed by anyone, its right there for me to see. Even the most biased UTD fan would find it hard to agree he is consistent.

He scored 10 last season (40 apps) and 10 the season before (49 apps). Compare that to Young, who Nani is a much better player than, Young has 8 goals in 32 apps. Young would have gotten to 10 goals given 9 more games we can assume. Nani being the better player should then deliver more but is not fufilling that extra promise we see glimpses of. I think some of us are judging him to a different standard than our other wingers. Are we expecting to much from him? Maybe so. Should we just be happy for him to contribute as Young? Its hard to settle for this when we see his A game.

For example, Nani's preformance against Arsenal at the Emirates in January 2010, that was one of the best displays of individual attacking football I have seen from a UTD player. Pace, skill and end product. It had everything. Young and Val could do well but don't have that extra level to go up.

Its the dilemma, the other wingers can't do it but Nani can. We cant afford to take that from the team but maybe we can't expect it more often either.

The more I think about, the harsher we judge him. He's a victim of his own success I guess.

Going by stats, didn't he score or assist every game from Jan 2010 to May 2011? I mean he played around 40 games and his goals plus assists was around 40.

I don't think he is inconsistent. I mean wingers blow hot and cold, it's same for any winger no more inconsistent than other wingers but even when he had off day he comes up with moment of brilliance to score a goal or set up a goal.

Nani is out best winger, with Kagawa, Rooney, RVP, Cleverley if Nani can regain his form then it will be just joy to watch one touch attacking play.

Jimmy Iovine · 28-08-2012 01:08PM

Danye wrote: »

Who has ever said that on Sky? The second bit made me

Well Sky Sports means the whole media in this case I suppose. They have highlighted how down-to-earth he is and all that in the past. He may well be but they've never really said a thing about Nani except say that he has a marble statue of himself in his house. People read that and instantly think he's an arrogant so-and-so.

The media went into over-drive after the Inter match. Thank god he wasn't English or else it might have been a bigger story than the World Cup in '66.

Also the way he is lauded on Sky Sports before matches would show you that they think much more highly of him than Nani, despite there being very little between them in my opinion.

QikBax · 28-08-2012 01:12PM

I don't like Nani at all but he's a far better player than Bale.

Bale is just an average player with lots of pace.

Will I Amnt · 28-08-2012 01:12PM

Roger Sterling wrote: »

I see Rafa Benitez is doing a book signing on 13th Sept in Easons. Gonna pop along with Fergie's autobiography with the dust cover off and try get him to sign it. Would be a pretty funny one to have.

"Dear Roger, Best Wishes and Enjoy the Book:

Rafa."

My friends did something similar a few years ago when he got David Ervine to sign his Gerry Adams autobiography.
:pac: :pac: :pac:

Heard him on the radio earlier.
Ray D'Arcy read Rafa out a text from a United fan that said something along the lines of "I'm a United fan and have great respect for Rafa Benitez,Liverpool would not be in the position they are now if it wasn't for him"

Should have screened the texts there Ray.

magnumbud · 28-08-2012 01:16PM

cambo2008 wrote: »

Heard him on the radio earlier.
Ray D'Arcy read Rafa out a text from a United fan that said something along the lines of "I'm a United fan and have great respect for Rafa Benitez,Liverpool would not be in the position they are now if it wasn't for him"

Should have screened the texts there Ray.

hahahaha thats made my day so far.

Roger Sterling · 28-08-2012 01:17PM

cambo2008 wrote: »

Heard him on the radio earlier.
Ray D'Arcy read Rafa out a text from a United fan that said something along the lines of "I'm a United fan and have great respect for Rafa Benitez,Liverpool would not be in the position they are now if it wasn't for him"

Should have screened the texts there Ray.

Or gotten a presenter that actually has a clue about sport rather than a wee man who spends the entire show going on about how great it is being under the wife's thumb.

Danye · 28-08-2012 01:17PM

Jimmy Iovine wrote: »

Well Sky Sports means the whole media in this case I suppose. They have highlighted how down-to-earth he is and all that in the past. He may well be but they've never really said a thing about Nani except say that he has a marble statue of himself in his house. People read that and instantly think he's an arrogant so-and-so.

The media went into over-drive after the Inter match. Thank god he wasn't English or else it might have been a bigger story than the World Cup in '66.

Also the way he is lauded on Sky Sports before matches would show you that they think much more highly of him than Nani, despite there being very little between them in my opinion.

Maybe if Nani scored a hatrick in one of his clubs biggest games of the modern era they would have said all those lovely things about him too :rolleyes:

DM_7 · 28-08-2012 01:18PM

Danye wrote: »

Well if all this was to be true DM, why do you think he finds himself in the position he is in?

I think he is out of favour at United as SAF wants a differant type of player in his team. He got what exactly what he bought imo and as it turns out 3/4 years later its not what he wants anymore. Berbatovs agent said a while back that the speed of play United want to have is not what Berbatov does.

108 starts, 41 sub appearances delivered 56 goals. Its a very good record for goals to games. Very similar to Dwight Yorke who will be remebered fondly for his time at United despite his off field behaviour getting him the boot.

I have no idea why other clubs are not after Berbatov unless they see his wage as an obstacle. He has attributes other clubs could utilise in their set ups even if SAF doesn't want to use them/doesn't think they are suited to his side

EDIT: I don't expect you or anyone to agree, its my opinion and I am only dragging it out more as you asked why I though something was the case. If anyone wants to think less of Beerbatov than I do then that is cool with me.

homerjay2005 · 28-08-2012 01:23PM

DM-ICE wrote: »

I have no idea why other clubs are not after Berbatov unless they see his wage as an obstacle. He has attributes other clubs could utilise in their set ups even if SAF doesn't want to use them/doesn't think they are suited to his side

ya it just has to be his wages, his age and the fact that United are probably looking for around 10million for him.

lots of clubs have s*it strikers, signing him and Owen would make great business for clubs like Villa, Wigan (moses money to be spent) and even the likes of Spurs and Everton.

Berba fits so many teams, it really must be down to money.

TheDoc · 28-08-2012 01:32PM

Danye wrote: »

I agree, the year Bale won it was a joke alright but what about the other years when foreign players won it over British players?

Also, I *think that the votes for the player of the year awards are cast in February or something? No? Bale did have a few very impressive games in the first half of the season which did capture peoples attention.

If memory serves much of the " WTF?" surrounding that was Bale had been on a serious drought in the run in to that award while Nani was still firing on all cyclinders.

And I'm struggling to think of a year where a foreigner won it over a Brit and it wasn't deserved, unlike the many occasions Brits have won awards over deserving foreigners.

Football writers award last 5 years

Scott Parker
Wayne Rooney
Steven Gerrard
Cristiano Ronaldo
Cristiano Ronaldo

Scott Parker and Gerrard very undeserving

English PFA young player of the year last five years

Jack Wilshere
James Milner
Ashley Young
Cesc Fabregas
Cristiano Ronaldo

Wilshere for one performance against Barca?
Ashley Young in 2009? This is the first season Rooney scored over 25 goals in the EPL, the first time done by an Englishman in 10 years : /

The PFA player of the year is a bit more realistic.

But there is obvious British favourtism when it comes to the PFA and Football writer awards.

And its only in the last ten years UEFA/FIFA finally removed its very evident embargo of providing the world footballer of the year award to an EPL player. Since 1991, Cristiano Ronaldo is the only player to win the World footballer of the year ( now Balondor) whilst representing an EPL club.

Lampard, Henry, Beckham and Bergkamp are the only other premier league players that have ever made the top 3. Go figure

Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 12/13

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