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Irish freight company goes to the wall . . .

24567…10

Comments

  • #32
    ncdadam
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 598 ✭✭✭ncdadam


    SocSocPol wrote: »
    How are the Government responsible for the actions of a poorly performing company who chose not to pay their taxes?:confused:

    I'm sure they could have worked with the company to try and ensure there were no job losses.

    Even if there is a large tax bill, they could have come to an arrangement to pay it over a number of years or something.

    If the people who worked for this company don't get a job within a year, the government will have paid out more than a million euro's in welfare payments by then, not forgetting the taxes they won't receive, the money these people would have earned being spent in the country etc etc.


  • #33
    Skid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,872 ✭✭✭Skid


    ncdadam wrote: »
    I'm sure they could have worked with the company to try and ensure there were no job losses.

    Even if there is a large tax bill, they could have come to an arrangement to pay it over a number of years or something.

    The Revenue only make an Attachment order as a last resort.

    You will find that there was an arrangement, but Target failed to honour it. Repeatedly.

    You have to draw the line somewhere. It is not fair on other Courier companies who are paying their taxes.

    It is a sad day for Target's employees, but they should blame their management, not the Revenue.


  • #34
    Pottler
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,073 ✭✭✭Pottler


    Hate when I hear stuff about people I know from the Internet. Some good people at Target, I've done a good bit of work for and with them. Sorry to hear it.


  • #35
    Stinicker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,098 ✭✭✭Stinicker


    Looks like Tyrone GAA will need a new sponsor, first their team goes to the wall now their sponsorer! Yikes!


  • #36
    paddydriver
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,092 ✭✭✭paddydriver


    So revenue are owed approx €1M by these guys - they choose to shutdown the company and put 400 people on the dole, which will probably cost the country about €2.5M over the next 12 months...

    Who the fcuk is making the decisions in this country.... surely a calculator would have made a better decision on this one!


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  • #37
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 99,591 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    Not really news anymore, freight companies have been going to the wall continually over the last 5 years. Cost of fuel and lack of stuff to move with the downturn being the main issues. My father is in freight and has had to move jobs several times over the period to stay employed as companies went down.
    The whole freight industry has been in a race to the bottom for a long time now.

    Undercutting each other for business when there is lower demand and growing fuel prices can only end one way.


  • #38
    CruelCoin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,463 ✭✭✭CruelCoin


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    Not really news anymore, freight companies have been going to the wall continually over the last 5 years. Cost of fuel and lack of stuff to move with the downturn being the main issues. My father is in freight and has had to move jobs several times over the period to stay employed as companies went down.

    The cost of fuel is a massive headache. That and the other general expenses in ireland are ridiculous.

    Put it this way, in my business, it costs me twice as much to make a delivery to Cork from Kildare, as it does from here to Holland...

    Mind you, good riddance Target, nightline is better anyway.


  • #39
    SocSocPol
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,043 ✭✭✭SocSocPol


    paddydriver wrote: »
    So revenue are owed approx €1M by these guys - they choose to shutdown the company and put 400 people on the dole, which will probably cost the country about €2.5M over the next 12 months...

    Who the fcuk is making the decisions in this country.... surely a calculator would have made a better decision on this one!
    So honest tax compliant transport companies should face unfair competition because you think Target should be exempt from paying their taxes, what about the workers who faced losing their jobs because target were competing for business by not paying their taxes? Maybe you need the calculator, not the taxman.


  • #40
    squawkbox
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14 ✭squawkbox


    SocSocPol wrote: »
    So honest tax compliant transport companies should face unfair competition because you think Target should be exempt from paying their taxes, what about the workers who faced losing their jobs because target were competing for business by not paying their taxes? Maybe you need the calculator, not the taxman.

    This. How did the debt build up so much if this was a profitable, viable company.

    The usual clowns don't grasp business fundamentals, none of them have started their own businesses. Expect wailing and gnashing of teeth from red faced GAA types. Maybe if they hadn't spent money sponsoring their home team they could pay the tax. Typical vanity project.

    I feel sorry for the innocent victims, especially those with kids. Hopefully when the business is redistributed to other companies they can be reemployed.


  • #41
    squawkbox
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14 ✭squawkbox


    paddydriver wrote: »
    So revenue are owed approx €1M by these guys - they choose to shutdown the company and put 400 people on the dole, which will probably cost the country about €2.5M over the next 12 months...

    Who the fcuk is making the decisions in this country.... surely a calculator would have made a better decision on this one!

    Ever occur to you that the business will go to rival companies ...?


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  • #42
    cournioni
    Moderators, Regional North East Moderators Posts: 12,744 Mod ✭✭✭✭cournioni


    bucketybuck wrote: »
    Crap.

    They were a shambles of a company, but unfortunately they have went to the wall owing the company I work for a considerable amount of money, which we will probably not see a penny of now.

    Its nobodies fault but their own, frankly they were a horrendously run business.
    Same situation here. I totally agree, both as a customer and supplier to us they were horrendously run. Their office in particular.

    I feel sorry for the honest hard working ones that I have dealt with.


  • #43
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,369 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    The Revenue Commissioners are well aware that tax-payers are having problems and are quite open to making instalment arrangements, but when a tax-payer starts pissing about, all bets are off.

    I'm just wondering what the €1 million consisted of, and how long it's been owed for.


  • #44
    coolisin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,795 ✭✭✭coolisin


    No company should be forgiven for not paying taxes, I agree how much was the Tyrone sponsorship deal costing them but yet they weren't paying taxes.

    Though revenue can be stupid with companies falling behind, I have seen the other side where they just went after a company because an investor turned out to be an idiot and revenue just wanted everything around that person gone. Lucky that company pulled through and sorted it's stuff out with court protection and saved jobs.

    Some great contracts for the competition to pick up, but these 400 people are sitting at home this morning stressing because the work they did good or bad was undone by the people at the top.
    Will the competitor's start employing extra people who knows.
    The last thing some of them need to be hearing is how another company is better good riddance.

    TBH courier companies are all the same, dpd have there moments of incompetency, so do fastway, Dhl have messed up heck even FedEx have majorly dropped the ball on me once or twice. I've used them all. Very little difference with any of them.


  • #45
    omahaid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭omahaid


    From the Irish times

    "Seamus McBrien said his company, Target Express, had paid €1 million to the Revenue Commissioners in the last six weeks.

    He claimed the Revenue had yesterday rejected a deal which would have seen the company pay off a further €175,000 from an overall outstanding liability of €300,000. As a result, he said, 398 people had lost their jobs because the Revenue insisted on receiving the additional €125,000."

    If true this seems to be a bit pointless, 398 jobs for €125000.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2012/0828/1224323098296.html


  • #46
    rungirlrun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19 ✭rungirlrun


    bucketybuck wrote: »
    Crap.

    They were a shambles of a company, but unfortunately they have went to the wall owing the company I work for a considerable amount of money, which we will probably not see a penny of now.

    Its nobodies fault but their own, frankly they were a horrendously run business.

    did you ever think that maybe they were in the same position .... not receiving money owed from their clients


  • #47
    theblueirish
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 488 ✭✭theblueirish


    omahaid wrote: »
    From the Irish times

    "Seamus McBrien said his company, Target Express, had paid €1 million to the Revenue Commissioners in the last six weeks.

    He claimed the Revenue had yesterday rejected a deal which would have seen the company pay off a further €175,000 from an overall outstanding liability of €300,000. As a result, he said, 398 people had lost their jobs because the Revenue insisted on receiving the additional €125,000."

    If true this seems to be a bit pointless, 398 jobs for €125000.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2012/0828/1224323098296.html

    Taking from the same article.
    he most recent accounts for the company, for the year ended December 2010, show that the company had shareholders’ funds of £7.3 million at year end. The company made a pre-tax profit of £1.9 million, and an after-tax profit of £1.62 million that year, on turnover of £29.9 million.

    So the company is making 1.62 million after tax but just didn't pay its tax bill?
    From talking to the drivers and some of the managment its clear that there was a lot more wrong than just tax. 5 depots have been closed over the last number of weeks, drivers fuel cards had been cut of, no wages in for the ROI staff yesterday and the NI staff have been told they are not getting a cheque today.


  • #48
    Anyone
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,376 ✭✭✭Anyone


    The Revenue are shutting down business's they think will go bust in order to get as much as they can. Person I know had his business(a lot smaller than Target) shut down under similar circumstances with the loss of 25 jobs.

    Personally I feel the decision to shut Target was a joke, the million the took will soon be eaten up by the 300 job losses that's happened. If its true that the actual final figure is 300k, well thats an even bigger joke.


  • #49
    coolisin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,795 ✭✭✭coolisin


    theblueirish wrote: »
    drivers fuel cards had been cut of, no wages in for the ROI staff yesterday and the NI staff have been told they are not getting a cheque today.

    Well with revenue removing access to the bank accounts they can give out cheques but they'll be worthless, the same with the fuel cards and the ROI wages they couldve paid the employees but the back accounts where frozen.


  • #50
    cournioni
    Moderators, Regional North East Moderators Posts: 12,744 Mod ✭✭✭✭cournioni


    rungirlrun wrote: »
    did you ever think that maybe they were in the same position .... not receiving money owed from their clients
    They were making €1.62m in after tax profits in 2010, yet they could not pay the company I work for what they were owed?! :rolleyes:


  • #51
    bucketybuck
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,704 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    paddydriver wrote: »
    So revenue are owed approx €1M by these guys - they choose to shutdown the company and put 400 people on the dole, which will probably cost the country about €2.5M over the next 12 months...

    Who the fcuk is making the decisions in this country.... surely a calculator would have made a better decision on this one!

    By your logic companies like Target could just say, "Well, we don't have to bother paying any tax, it would cost more for the government to put us on the dole. Happy days, lets sponsor another GAA team instead...".

    Perhaps you should think through the implications of your statements.


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  • #52
    homerjay2005
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,346 ✭✭✭✭homerjay2005


    squawkbox wrote: »
    This. How did the debt build up so much if this was a profitable, viable company.

    this is a question that can be asked of most business in this country to be honest, they are being badly run.


  • #53
    Pacing Mule
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,104 ✭✭✭Pacing Mule


    cournioni wrote: »
    They were making €1.62m in after tax profits in 2010, yet they could not pay the company I work for what they were owed?! :rolleyes:

    Not defending them in particular but it is possible for a company to show a profit but not have the cashflow to pay bills. Take your company as an example - they will show the sales part of the work they done for Target as revenue / contributing to the profit for your company but they don't actually have the cash from it. (Granted at this point it will most likely end up as being written off as a bad debt) Target may well have been in the same position - owed money themselves and the profit was just a paper one.


  • #54
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,369 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    cournioni wrote: »
    They were making €1.62m in after tax profits in 2010, yet they could not pay the company I work for what they were owed?! :rolleyes:

    If that's the case, they're obvious on the "long finger" method of dealing with creditors.

    I get the feeling that the one being bloody-minded is McBrien. I also think that the Rev Coms know that the company can afford to pay up and tried to force his hand. On the face of it, he seems to be the guy pulling the plug on the jobs by his own actions.


  • #55
    SEPT 23 1989
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,038 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    Well done Revenue staff you can sleep well tonight knowing your books are balanced:rolleyes:


  • #56
    2 stroke
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭2 stroke


    One of our suppliers used target, they were so unreliably we used collect from their depot rather than let them deliver. Easy to see now how they could undercut/drive competitors out of business if they didn't pay taxes/suppliers/wages. My sympathy to the drivers, good riddance to the company.


  • #57
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    I don't understand why they forced it out of business. It was operating and was making profit. Badly managed maybe but staff where being paid etc.
    How come they didn't take this company over and sell it to an American company or is that only an option for mega million pound companies?

    Also:Is there a suggestion here that this was a front for or somehow connected to Quinn?


  • #58
    martingriff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,831 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    I don't understand why they forced it out of business. It was operating and was making profit. Badly managed maybe but staff where being paid etc.
    How come they didn't take this company over and sell it to an American company or is that only an option for mega million pound companies?

    Also:Is there a suggestion here that this was a front for or somehow connected to Quinn?

    They did not force it out of business. They were looking for there money maybe the comppany had been giving them the runaround we will never knbow as we can only hear 1 side.

    The revenue put an attachment on the bank and some suppliers that owed the company money to pay it to revenue. The manager decided to close it down.

    Plenty of companies and individuals have had attachments and are still in business


  • #59
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    martingriff wrote: »

    Plenty of companies and individuals have had attachments and are still in business

    Could you give us some examples of companies with similar workforces and payrolls?


  • #60
    martingriff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,831 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Could you give us some examples of companies with similar workforces and payrolls?

    No I cant. Does the bold bit make a difference why would they have to be similar to that company


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  • #61
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    martingriff wrote: »
    No I cant. Does the bold bit make a difference why would they have to be similar to that company

    Because I can understand how a smaller company might survive attachments but with the fuel costs and payroll here it was as good as shutting the doors.


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