Liverpool FC Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2012/13

opr · 27-08-2012 09:58PM

Anyone watched Porto this season yet. What did you make of the lad we seemed so close to signing Martinez? I see he has gone straight into the team as a starter and already scored 2 in 3 games. No doubt Porto will end up selling him for £30m in a few years.

Opr

LuckyLloyd · 27-08-2012 10:01PM

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Liverpool fans begging to be owned by a sugar daddy, never thought I'd see that day.

It's Liverpool fans begging to win. We were in the mix for the big prizes when Moores and H & G were here. We had the managers.

The blueprint we currently have just won't cut it. Arsenal have threaded it the past few seasons with one of the best managers in the history of the game and won nothing. Spurs are threading it, and have a CL QF to show for it. That's why the likes of daithijjj and I are so perturbed. This path doesn't lead where we want to go.

And if we won't get where we want to go, who gives a ****? There is nothing to be positive about.

27-08-2012 10:01PM

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Liverpool fans begging to be owned by a sugar daddy, never thought I'd see that day.

who is?

Sugar daddy is short term success, club needs to be self sufficent.

monkey9 · 27-08-2012 10:04PM

Nuri Şahin ‏@nurisahin05
Dinner with my new teammate Fabio Borini and friends from the club! turkish food is the best

osnola ibax · 27-08-2012 10:04PM

amiable wrote: »

Luis knew that was buried as soon as he hit it

Chucky the tree · 27-08-2012 10:05PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

It's Liverpool fans begging to win. We were in the mix for the big prizes when Moores and H & G were here. We had the managers.

The blueprint we currently have just won't cut it. Arsenal have threaded it the past few seasons with one of the best managers in the history of the game and won nothing. Spurs are threading it, and have a CL QF to show for it. That's why the likes of daithijjj and I are so perturbed. This path doesn't lead where we want to go.

And if we won't get where we want to go, who gives a ****? There is nothing to be positive about.

Yea, look where Hicks and Gillet got us. Damn I wish we could get those days back. That's the kind of path we should be dying to go down again. As I said, a Liverpool fan looking for a sugar Daddy to buy success. Pretty lol considering how we've knocked Chelsea and city fans for it. But hey, get on that sugar daddy bandwagon Lloyd.

rarnes1 wrote: »

who is?

Sugar daddy is short term success, club needs to be self sufficent.

Lloyd and Daithijjj.

Luckycharms_74 · 27-08-2012 10:08PM

Sahin settling in

Nuri Şahin
‏@nurisahin05
Dinner with my new teammate Fabio Borini and friends from the club! turkish food is the best

Edit: Sorry I posted it too slow. Just saw the earlier post

Knex* · 27-08-2012 10:10PM

opr wrote: »

Anyone watched Porto this season yet. What did you make of the lad we seemed so close to signing Martinez? I see he has gone straight into the team as a starter and already scored 2 in 3 games. No doubt Porto will end up selling him for £30m in a few years.

Opr

Only found out the other day they signed Falcao for just over 3m. Sold him then for 40m. It's incredible what they've done there tbh.

LuckyLloyd · 27-08-2012 10:10PM

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Yea, look where Hicks and Gillet got us. Damn I wish we could get those days back. That's the kind of path we should be dying to go down again. As I said, a Liverpool fan looking for a sugar Daddy to buy success. Pretty lol considering how we've knocked Chelsea and city fans for it. But hey, get on that sugar daddy bandwagon Lloyd.

Lloyd and Daithijjj.

That's not what I'm saying and you know it too. That wasn't the way, but this ****ing isn't the way either.

Seriously, do you want to be Arsenal? Is that the limit of your ambition?

daithijjj · 27-08-2012 10:12PM

Melion wrote: »

Honestly, how much do people want the owners to spend? They've spent over 30m this summer with less than 10m being recouped. I said it last week and it's getting more obvious, a lot of people won't be happy until we have a Sheikhy sugar daddy.

You need to start looking at numbers for player's over longer periods than 1 year (Sahin is fair enough in that regard). You also need to start looking at wages, you are only using xfer fees, which have become increasingly irrelevant in comparison to wages in today's game.

Why dont you include the wages of Aquilani/Kuyt/Maxi/Bellamy etc that will not be in this years accounts? (a conservative 250k p/w or 13m annual) or the extra 12m+ from the Warrior deal that will be in this years accounts?.

Lawrence1895 · 27-08-2012 10:12PM

monkey9 wrote: »

Nuri Şahin ‏@nurisahin05
Dinner with my new teammate Fabio Borini and friends from the club! turkish food is the best

Welcome to the club, Nuri. You'll always be remembered fondly in Dortmund

Sir Gallagher · 27-08-2012 10:15PM

That food looks tasty. Would murder a mixed grill right now.

K-9 · 27-08-2012 10:15PM

daithijjj wrote: »

Off the pitch im totally content, i can only give them compliments for that. I believe them about the new stadium and i have no issues with naming rights, you have to move into the future. I can only imagine the amount of bureaucracy and red tape they have to go through though.

However, under FFPR, the financing surrounding any stadium venture is designed so it doesnt hold you back on the pitch. Its Wenger's management that is hiding the lack of investment in the team there, which is somewhat ironic i believe, as i feel fans of Arsenal will be on top of him the first day they dont qualify for the CL.

The interest still needs to be paid!

Talking about FFPR is irrelevant as regards finances for the stadium, FFPR doesn't pay the interest bill on a £2/300 Million pound loan, doesn't introduce new funds for transfers while paying that hefty loan, the stadium will still cost the same and yes, it will effect transfer funds, unless we get Sheikh like owners.

whatawaster · 27-08-2012 10:16PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

That's not what I'm saying and you know it too. That wasn't the way, but this ****ing isn't the way either.

Seriously, do you want to be Arsenal? Is that the limit of your ambition?

Lloyd, you earlier bemoaned the fact that the club's revenues have increased massively and the club hasn't invested this in the squad.

I showed this not to be true. Revenues have increased by around 50% from 2006 to 2011 and wage expenditure increased by 90%. So this money (and more) WAS invested in the playing squad.

With this in mind, what is your plan to move the club forward?

Does it involve cutting costs (namely spend on transfers/wages)?
Does it involve increasing revenues?
Does it involve spending money we don't have?
Does it require new owners who are willing to spend tens of millions (maybe more) of their own money?

I get that you don't want to be Arsenal, you want to win. But do you have a realistic idea of how we should get there?

whatawaster · 27-08-2012 10:18PM

rarnes1 wrote: »

who is?

Sugar daddy is short term success, club needs to be self sufficent.

1000% agree.

Chucky the tree · 27-08-2012 10:20PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

That's not what I'm saying and you know it too. That wasn't the way, but this ****ing isn't the way either.

Seriously, do you want to be Arsenal? Is that the limit of your ambition?

I know it's a sugary daddy you want, a nice oil barron or sheik. Fingers crossed it's not the one who took over Malaga though. I'd love to be Arsenal, I suppose I'm capable of seeing the long term though so that's the difference between you and me. I'd also rather support a mid-table premiership team than Leeds United in League 1(now Championship).

LuckyLloyd · 27-08-2012 10:20PM

whatawaster wrote: »

Lloyd, you earlier bemoaned the fact that the club's revenues have increased massively and the club hasn't invested this in the squad.

I showed this not to be true. Revenues have increased by around 50% from 2006 to 2011 and wage expenditure increased by 90%. So this money (and more) WAS invested in the playing squad.

With this in mind, what is your plan to move the club forward?

Does it involve cutting costs (namely spend on transfers/wages)?
Does it involve increasing revenues?
Does it involve spending money we don't have?
Does it require new owners who are willing to spend tens of millions (maybe more) of their own money?

I get that you don't want to be Arsenal, you want to win. But do you have a realistic idea of how we should get there?

I guess I don't. I just know this isn't it. And, as such, there is NOTHING to be positive about. We should be in absolute ****ing turmoil and revolt. We're never going to win the league.

And, just so everybody knows, FFP will never be implemented in full. It won't matter.

LuckyLloyd · 27-08-2012 10:21PM

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I know it's a sugary daddy you want, a nice oil barron or sheik. Fingers crossed it's not the one who took over Malaga though. I'd love to be Arsenal, I suppose I'm capable of seeing the long term though so that's the difference between you and me. I'd also rather support a mid-table premiership team than Leeds United in League 1.

Well you're looking at it baby. What's Arsenal's long term past Wenger? Answer me that.

MD1990 · 27-08-2012 10:23PM

it is disapointing that FSG are not providing big funds for the club
look at how far City came with the huge investment

Dickerty · 27-08-2012 10:24PM

Lars1916 wrote: »

Welcome to the club, Nuri. You'll always be remembered fondly in Dortmund

This is part of #OperationKeepSahin ...

opr · 27-08-2012 10:25PM

daithijjj wrote: »

You need to start looking at numbers for player's over longer periods than 1 year (Sahin is fair enough in that regard). You also need to start looking at wages, you are only using xfer fees, which have become increasingly irrelevant in comparison to wages in today's game.

Why dont you include the wages of Aquilani/Kuyt/Maxi/Bellamy etc that will not be in this years accounts? (a conservative 250k p/w or 13m annual) or the extra 12m+ from the Warrior deal that will be in this years accounts?.

People are looking at the numbers over the long term with wages included. The club in the last set of accounts was making an underlying loss in the region of £30m. Last year we probably stayed still with regards wages and increased commercial revenue.

This summer we have probably reduced the wage bill by about £15m. Plus we have added even more commercial revenue it means the club is probably making a small profit. In isolation because of exceptional costs again this year of payoffs to Kenny and clarke and to Swansea for Rodgers we will more than likely show a loss but the underlying picture moving forward should show a small profit.

I'm not sure what money you think the owners are pocketing at the moment. They just put £20m in net when it's clear we're going to make further losses?

Opr

Dickerty · 27-08-2012 10:26PM

MD1990 wrote: »

it is disapointing that FSG are not providing big funds for the club
look at how far City came with the huge investment

Back to the same discussion - sugar daddy versus viable business based on being smart and successful.

I wouldn't want to "buy" the title. I want to earn it.

Chucky the tree · 27-08-2012 10:29PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Well you're looking at it baby. What's Arsenal's long term past Wenger? Answer me that.

With a brand new stadium and all debt cleared in 5-6 years I'd say it's looking pretty good. Even better if the FFP rules are implemented properly. I certainly think Arsenal post Wenger is 1000 times better than Chelsea post Roman, you?

whatawaster · 27-08-2012 10:29PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I guess I don't. I just know this isn't it. And, as such, there is NOTHING to be positive about. We should be in absolute ****ing turmoil and revolt. We're never going to win the league.

And, just so everybody knows, FFP will never be implemented in full. It won't matter.

You say we're never going to win the league, but it's really impossible to predict the future. We probably won't in the next few years, but it's not impossible and anything can happen. In the medium/long-term it's quite likely we will win the league at some stage.

If your assertion is that there is no sustainable way for Liverpool to become league winners, then why should we be in revolt? Only 1 team can win the league every year, and for most teams even a title challenge is a pipe dream. Those clubs don't just throw in the towel or shut their doors.

Even throwing tens of millions at our playing squad would be no guarantees of success. We are in a quite unique era of English football. We have two long-standing dynasties watched over by two of the best managers we have seen. And we have two clubs who have spent hundreds of millions in short time-frames to buy success.

We don't have either of those things, so we need to do something different. If we fail I don't see there being any shame in that. The club will hopefully still exist and I'll still support it. Throwing our toys out of the pram because we are not looking like champions in the making is a bit silly imo. I firmly believe everyone at the club is committed to making us a championship-winning team, even if it may be a futile task

whatawaster · 27-08-2012 10:30PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Well you're looking at it baby. What's Arsenal's long term past Wenger? Answer me that.

One of the wealthiest clubs in Europe, with fine facilities and everything in place to be a successful club long into the future.

MD1990 · 27-08-2012 10:31PM

Dickerty wrote: »

Back to the same discussion - sugar daddy versus viable business based on being smart and successful.

I wouldn't want to "buy" the title. I want to earn it.

u could be waiting 10-15 years then for a title then
we need a huge investment to get elite players

opr · 27-08-2012 10:32PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Well you're looking at it baby. What's Arsenal's long term past Wenger? Answer me that.

Our owners have said they admire the Arsenal model. They've also said that what the club generates in revenue will be re-invested in the squad. I take this to mean if we were making the extra £40m from the CL then we would have that to spend. Arsenal problem is that they don't get this money each year, they don't even usually get the money they make on transfers whether that is to with the stadium is another discussion.

Opr

Dickerty · 27-08-2012 10:32PM

whatawaster wrote: »

One of the wealthiest clubs in Europe, with fine facilities and everything in place to be a successful club long into the future.

But not winning anything now, and still a way off the top 3...

Chucky the tree · 27-08-2012 10:34PM

Dickerty wrote: »

But not winning anything now, and still a way off the top 3...

They finished 3rd last year.

daithijjj · 27-08-2012 10:35PM

K-9 wrote: »

The interest still needs to be paid!

Talking about FFPR is irrelevant as regards finances for the stadium, FFPR doesn't pay the interest bill on a £2/300 Million pound loan, doesn't introduce new funds for transfers while paying that hefty loan, the stadium will still cost the same and yes, it will effect transfer funds, unless we get Sheikh like owners.

We will have to wait and see what happens with that as its not clear we will be moving anywhere yet.

Liverpool FC Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2012/13

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