Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 12/13 MOD POST #232

27-08-2012 10:27AM

tayto lover wrote: »

So what?
What is strange about wanting and expecting to win?
Being happy with Top 4 is all very well but I want to win it. We can and should aim higher. The fact that we have won nothing since 05 does not change my aspirations either. Also we have won it when other teams spent big in the past. The size of the cheque book should not and does not automatically win the league thank God.

Nothing wrong with wanting to win it.
Nor as a manager EXPECTING to win it (the manager has to instill belief in the squad), but as a fan it's ridiculous.

The last time we won the league, the the league was poorer, less teams caused upsets, less talented players etc.
You cannot compare then and now, even to money spent by other teams.

You're entitled to your opinion but it wreaks of whinging and moaning for absolutely no reason (unless you count Song walking out a reason

), as 2 games in you all think it's game over for Arsenal.

27-08-2012 10:29AM

pandaboy wrote: »

Read this morning's Arseblog. Quite interesting about Arteta playing the deeper role. It made me realise, had he been playing higher in the Diaby's position & we had a DM replacement already, we could've had a win yesterday.

I was looking over some of his appearances from last year and the amount he contributed to the midfield attack was unreal. We missed that a lot yesterday. We could've pushed more through the centre giving the wider guys more time to get into the box. Giroud would've had more opportunity as well. Diaby played well yesterday but I really think if Arteta played there and we had adequate cover for DM, it would've been a more fruitful game. Also, in hindsight, Gervinho could've played better and shown more responsibility for the ball. If we had a Ljungberg or a Pires in the same position, they would've made more from the same chances as Gervinho.

I think this might be the Bould effect, even Cazorla was sitting really deep at times.
I absolutley agree Arteta can and should play higher up, his ball retention and passing is excellent.

emergingstar · 27-08-2012 10:33AM

RVP 11 wrote: »

pandaboy wrote: »

Read this morning's Arseblog. Quite interesting about Arteta playing the deeper role. It made me realise, had he been playing higher in the Diaby's position & we had a DM replacement already, we could've had a win yesterday.

I was looking over some of his appearances from last year and the amount he contributed to the midfield attack was unreal. We missed that a lot yesterday. We could've pushed more through the centre giving the wider guys more time to get into the box. Giroud would've had more opportunity as well. Diaby played well yesterday but I really think if Arteta played there and we had adequate cover for DM, it would've been a more fruitful game. Also, in hindsight, Gervinho could've played better and shown more responsibility for the ball. If we had a Ljungberg or a Pires in the same position, they would've made more from the same chances as Gervinho.

I think this might be the Bould effect, even Cazorla was sitting really deep at times.
I absolutley agree Arteta can and should play higher up, his ball retention and passing is excellent.

I'm loving the bould affect clean sheet = 1 point at least, we will score goals lets build the foundation first

27-08-2012 10:35AM

emergingstar wrote: »

I'm loving the bould affect clean sheet = 1 point at least, we will score goals lets build the foundation first

Totally, no longer do i feel the team will wither and die when a goal up.
And this is Arsenal with Wenger at the helm, we WILL score goals even without ALEX SONG & RVP.:D

pandaboy · 27-08-2012 10:37AM

RVP 11 wrote: »

I think this might be the Bould effect, even Cazorla was sitting really deep at times.
I absolutley agree Arteta can and should play higher up, his ball retention and passing is excellent.

I think you're right. With Arteta, it's almost a hybrid 4-4-2 from the current position of 4-3-3. He fills in for both the DM & CM while Cazorla has more privileges in a CM/AM role, but it is a defensive minded set up. Cazorla & Arteta still held outside the box to provide cover, disposess & attack. We're playing differently to last year and I'm liking the dynamic. It's going to provide fruitful but we do need some cover to give Arteta a bigger role in attacking buildups. The potential between him & Cazorla as an attacking duo is going to set this team up for more.

There's a lot of negativity for the past two games. Yesterday I think we out'Stoked Stoke. Defensively we played them at their own game and it worked. There were chances for goals but as I said above, the sooner we can push Arteta up the pitch, the better. The results will then come.

gosplan · 27-08-2012 10:40AM

RVP 11 wrote: »

The last time we won the league, the the league was poorer, less teams caused upsets, less talented players etc.
You cannot compare then and now, even to money spent by other teams.

And that's the reality of it.

Last season, two teams finished on 89 points.

Arsenal bettered that total once IIRC, the year of the invincibles.

To expect us to achieve that again with a new midfield/forward line is lunacy. Not that it can't be done, but to berate the team for anything less that that target is rediculous.

dvemail · 27-08-2012 10:46AM

emergingstar wrote: »

Crazy Monday rumour, wouldn't mind it been true though

Everton close to signing mvila
We're closing in on fellani

That would be nice but doubt it will happen. Seems Sp*rs will get M'Vila as i dont see either Arsenal or Everton shelling out the €19million required for his signature.
Reckon Fellani would cost circa the same amount if not more also, unless Wenger is changing his spending policy.

emergingstar · 27-08-2012 10:47AM

dvemail wrote: »

emergingstar wrote: »

Crazy Monday rumour, wouldn't mind it been true though

Everton close to signing mvila
We're closing in on fellani

That would be nice but doubt it will happen. Seems Sp*rs will get M'Vila as i dont see either Arsenal or Everton shelling out the €19million required for his signature.
Reckon Fellani would cost circa the same amount if not more also, unless Wenger is changing his spending policy.

Don't see it myself but expect alot of crazy rumours like that for the next week

greendom · 27-08-2012 10:55AM

One disappointing thing were the corners and free-kicks in dangerous positions. We had at least 10 of the former and a couple of the latter and didn't make the goalkeeper work for any of them. That really has to improve.

tayto lover · 27-08-2012 10:55AM

RVP 11 wrote: »

Nothing wrong with wanting to win it.
Nor as a manager EXPECTING to win it (the manager has to instill belief in the squad), but as a fan it's ridiculous.

The last time we won the league, the the league was poorer, less teams caused upsets, less talented players etc.
You cannot compare then and now, even to money spent by other teams.

You're entitled to your opinion but it wreaks of whinging and moaning for absolutely no reason (unless you count Song walking out a reason ), as 2 games in you all think it's game over for Arsenal.

Where did I mention Song in my post or say that the league was over two games in? Is it moaning to not be satisfied with no goals in two games and 2 points out of 6. We can and should do better and we will improve but I am not happy with what I saw in the first 2 games regardless of having 3 new players on the field.
Maybe my posts wreaked of whinging to you but yours wreak of "trending and licking" to me. At least I express my own opinions.

27-08-2012 10:56AM

pandaboy wrote: »

I think you're right. With Arteta, it's almost a hybrid 4-4-2 from the current position of 4-3-3. He fills in for both the DM & CM while Cazorla has more privileges in a CM/AM role, but it is a defensive minded set up. Cazorla & Arteta still held outside the box to provide cover, disposess & attack. We're playing differently to last year and I'm liking the dynamic. It's going to provide fruitful but we do need some cover to give Arteta a bigger role in attacking buildups. The potential between him & Cazorla as an attacking duo is going to set this team up for more.

There's a lot of negativity for the past two games. Yesterday I think we out'Stoked Stoke. Defensively we played them at their own game and it worked. There were chances for goals but as I said above, the sooner we can push Arteta up the pitch, the better. The results will then come.

That's a good way of putting it.:)
And it feels good, i am happy the team look like they can take the physical side without bottling it.

27-08-2012 10:59AM

tayto lover wrote: »

Where did I mention Song in my post or say that the league was over two games in? Is it moaning to not be satisfied with no goals in two games and 2 points out of 6. We can and should do better and we will improve but I am not happy with what I saw in the first 2 games regardless of having 3 new players on the field.
Maybe my posts wreaked of whinging to you but yours wreak of "trending and licking" to me. At least I express my own opinions.

You're talking ****e now.
You never mention the fact that Wenger bought 3 proven players (something he never does) and these players need time to adjust and if you don't feel the same then you are just whinging.
I am pleased that we have turned a corner in terms of coping with the physical side of the game and the defensive side of the game, something we haven't been able to cope with previously.
Not jumping on the teams back because we haven't scored in the first 2 games isn't licking, it's just not whinging for no reason, if we had a point out of 7 games i wouldn't be too happy, but i'm not going to act like Arsenal are in crisis right now.
You never once whinged about Song leaving holes in the midfield and being directly responsible for plenty of goals conceded over the years, yet here you are whinging because we didn't score a goal in 2 games without RVP.

tayto lover · 27-08-2012 11:07AM

RVP 11 wrote: »

You're talking ****e now.
You never mention the fact that Wenger bought 3 proven players (something he never does) and these players need time to adjust and if you don't feel the same then you are just whinging.
I am pleased that we have turned a corner in terms of coping with the physical side of the game and the defensive side of the game, something we haven't been able to cope with previously.
Not jumping on the teams back because we haven't cored in the first 2 games isn't licking, it's just not whinging for no reason.
You never once whinged about Song leaving holes in the midfield and being directly responsible for plenty of goals conceded over the years, yet here you are whinging because we didn't score a goal in 2 games without RVP.

This thread is about opinions and I will always give mine even if they upset you or anyone else. I am not set up to be a "thanks whore". If I see something to point out then i will do so. Stoke are a poor team and will finish in the bottom half no doubt at all. The fact that they have caused us and other teams trouble before is neither here nor there. Blackburn used to do that too but where are they now? If my posts annoy you then ignore them. We can win this league or at least make a valiant attempt if we believe we can. Again I am not happy with a point at Stoke. They are a poor team.
You're the one talking s****.

27-08-2012 11:10AM

tayto lover wrote: »

This thread is about opinions and I will always give mine even if they upset you or anyone else. I am not set up to be a "thanks whore". If I see something to point out then i will do so. Stoke are a poor team and will finish in the bottom half no doubt at all. The fact that they have caused us and other teams trouble before is neither here nor there. Blackburn used to do that too but where are they now? If my posts annoy you then ignore them. We can win this league or at least make a valiant attempt if we believe we can. Again I am not happy with a point at Stoke. They are a poor team.

Annoy me?
They actually make me laugh, you're the one that feels the need to defend your point of view when most supporters here see it as whinging.
But we cannot post that opinion eh? because it pisses you off that people don't share your "arsenal were mental to let Song go" or "we should be winning every single game we play".
You are the one that isn't being realistic, we can all plainly see you have no grasp of the way the Premier has worked for the last 7 years since we last won a trophy.

tayto lover · 27-08-2012 11:13AM

RVP 11 wrote: »

Annoy me?
They actually make me laugh, you're the one that feels the need to defend your point of view when most supporters here see it as whinging.
But we cannot post that opinion eh? because it pisses you off that people don't share your "arsenal were mental to let Song go" or "we should be winning every single game we play".
You are the one that isn't being realistic, we can all plainly see you have no grasp of the way the Premier has worked for the last 7 years since we last won a trophy.

Whenever things go against you jump on the "we" or "people don't share your view" defence. I don't really care, I give MY views.
Be your own man for once.

27-08-2012 11:16AM

tayto lover wrote: »

Whenever things go against you jump on the "we" or "people don't share your view" defence. I don't really care, I give MY views.
Be your own man for once.

I've really pissed you off haven't i?:pac:
You can always tell when someone gets personal.:p

I was the first to post it so stick your personal snipes.
I wouldn't try to change a whingers opinion, whingers always whinge.

Soups123 · 27-08-2012 11:18AM

To be realistic, 2 points from 6 against Stoke and Sunderland isnt good, I have no issue with a point away off Stoke any part of the season its an okay result not a great one but consistent with what most big teams get.

The point at home to Sunderland was disapointing but all things considered (new players, 11 behind the ball), its not catastrophic. This is the result that makes the two look bad.

From watching the game yesterday I thought our biggest lacking was movement a few times Diaby & Cazorla had the ball mid point of the Stoke half and the movement around them was no existing, I think this is the bit thats missing and once we get a few more games together you would expect this to fall into place, if it doesnt then we have serious problems.

Looking at our rivals with the exception of Chelsea none of them have hit the ground running but its important we get our click on over the next games or so to ensure no gap developes

tayto lover · 27-08-2012 11:19AM

RVP 11 wrote: »

I've really pissed you off haven't i?:pac:
You can always tell when someone gets personal.:p

I was the first to post it so stick your personal snipes.
I wouldn't try to change a whingers opinion, whingers always whinge.

Do you want me to thank that post for you and make you happy again ?
You behave like a little boy at times but i forgive your tantrums.

27-08-2012 11:20AM

tayto lover wrote: »

Do you want me to thank that post for you and make you happy again ?
You behave like a little boy at times but i forgive your tantrums.

This coming for the lad who posted this on my profile in February.....
"What a load of cowardly crap that was last night. I'm in the worst of form today. Wenger just has to go now. How can these players hold their heads up after that."
You know more about tantrums than me :pac:
And your insults mean **** all to me so carry on whinger.

tayto lover · 27-08-2012 11:23AM

RVP 11 wrote: »

This coming for the lad who posted this on my profile in February.....
"What a load of cowardly crap that was last night. I'm in the worst of form today. Wenger just has to go now. How can these players hold their heads up after that."
You know more about tantrums than me :pac:

I won't post some of the childish crap you posted but other posters have commented on it over time. What i will post though is part of Wengers comments from yesterday which i agreed with but which seemed to upset you

"It was a point at Stoke and that is normally a good performance but I still have some regrets because there was more in the game for us," Wenger told BBC Sport.

27-08-2012 11:27AM

tayto lover wrote: »

I won't post some of the childish crap you posted but other posters have commented on it over time. What i will post though is part of Wengers comments from yesterday which i agreed with but which seemed to upset you

"It was a point at Stoke and that is normally a good performance but I still have some regrets because there was more in the game for us," Wenger told BBC Sport.

I've already said the players and managers can say those things, we support them afterall.
What upsets me is part timers who use it as any excuse to have a go at the team.
Wenger last season said famously "Everyone has an opinion, but none of them can do this job and don't have my experience"
So while you think you have the same opinion as Arsene Wenger :pac:, your rantings have no influence on what Wenger will do to rectify the situation, even if you call for his head.
Supporters are supposed to have faith, and the only issue i have EVER had with Wenger was the fact that he was playing players without experience, bottle or real talent, and defending was non existant apart from the CB's, and this season that has all changed.
So i am optimistic, but you hate that right?
Anyone who's optimistic is a sheep in your eyes.

tayto lover · 27-08-2012 11:27AM

Soups123 wrote: »

To be realistic, 2 points from 6 against Stoke and Sunderland isnt good, I have no issue with a point away off Stoke any part of the season its an okay result not a great one but consistent with what most big teams get.

The point at home to Sunderland was disapointing but all things considered (new players, 11 behind the ball), its not catastrophic. This is the result that makes the two look bad.

From watching the game yesterday I thought our biggest lacking was movement a few times Diaby & Cazorla had the ball mid point of the Stoke half and the movement around them was no existing, I think this is the bit thats missing and once we get a few more games together you would expect this to fall into place, if it doesnt then we have serious problems.

Looking at our rivals with the exception of Chelsea none of them have hit the ground running but its important we get our click on over the next games or so to ensure no gap developes

Yes. While I like Diaby he is a bit slow in delivering the ball which allows the defence time to get back in position. We have to remember that he missed nearly a whole season though. Cazorla could be the players of the season if he continues as he started. We could and probably should have won both those games though.

KINGVictor · 27-08-2012 11:28AM

RVP 11 wrote: »

I've really pissed you off haven't i?:pac:
You can always tell when someone gets personal.:p

I was the first to post it so stick your personal snipes.
I wouldn't try to change a whingers opinion, whingers always whinge.

In all fairness, I would not term his opinion as whinging at all. People have different levels of expectations from their clubs, some less realistic than others but i think they all stem from genuine interest in the club.

tayto lover · 27-08-2012 11:30AM

RVP 11 wrote: »

I've already said the players and managers can say those things, we support them afterall.
What upsets me is part timers who use it as any excuse to have a go at the team.
Wenger last season said famously "Everyone has an opinion, but none of them can do this job and don't have my experience"
So while you think you have the same opinion as Arsene Wenger :pac:, your rantings have no influence on what Wenger will do to rectify the situation, even if you call for his head.
Supporters are supposed to have faith, and the only issue i have EVER had with Wenger was the fact that he was playing players without experience, bottle or real talent, and defending was non existant apart from the CB's, and this season that has all changed.
So i am optimistic, but you hate that right?
Anyone who's optimistic is a sheep in your eyes.

Aw FFS will you grow up.
Give your opinions for what they are and allow others to give theirs. If they disagree with yours then take it like a man.
Stop throwing your toys out of your pram if people disagree with you. It's called growing up.

saiint · 27-08-2012 11:31AM

RVP 11 wrote: »

This coming for the lad who posted this on my profile in February.....
"What a load of cowardly crap that was last night. I'm in the worst of form today. Wenger just has to go now. How can these players hold their heads up after that."
You know more about tantrums than me :pac:
And your insults mean **** all to me so carry on whinger.

how old are you ? :pac:
who says whinger? for a second i thought you were talking about the Arsenal Manager
now hes a feckin whinger in a whole different catagory

27-08-2012 11:31AM

KINGVictor wrote: »

In all fairness, I would not term his opinion as whinging at all. People have different levels of expectations from their clubs, some less realistic than others but i think they all stem from genuine interest in the club.

When you have to repeatedly post it, it's called whinging.

Soups123 · 27-08-2012 11:40AM

tayto lover wrote: »

Yes. While I like Diaby he is a bit slow in delivering the ball which allows the defence time to get back in position. We have to remember that he missed nearly a whole season though. Cazorla could be the players of the season if he continues as he started. We could and probably should have won both those games though.

Looking at how we play there is onus on the player playing in the Cazorla and Diaby roles to play killer/final passes, i'm not sure if Diaby has that in his locker. I always thought he would be developed into a DM but doesnt seem to be the case.

I think his forward midfield game will be more around using his big frame to hold players off and laying simple balls off and using his strenght to power through defences

tayto lover · 27-08-2012 11:40AM

RVP 11 wrote: »

When you have to repeatedly post it, it's called whinging.

Alright lets call a truce here. We can agree to differ and stop the insults from now

tayto lover · 27-08-2012 11:42AM

Soups123 wrote: »

Looking at how we play there is onus on the player playing in the Cazorla and Diaby roles to play killer/final passes, i'm not sure if Diaby has that in his locker. I always thought he would be developed into a DM but doesnt seem to be the case.

I think his forward midfield game will be more around using his big frame to hold players off and laying simple balls off and using his strenght to power through defences

Agree with that. It is only me that seems to think Diaby has actually shrunk? He always looked bigger and stronger before.

27-08-2012 11:45AM

tayto lover wrote: »

Alright lets call a truce here. We can agree to differ and stop the insults from now

Well the insults aren't nice (i'm no boy, wish i was) and perhaps i was being a bit silly calling you a whinger, but i'm trying to be optimistic about our season 2 games in, as what else can we do after losing our top striker and anchor man (allegedly);)

Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 12/13 MOD POST #232

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