Liverpool FC Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2012/13

Vicxas · 27-08-2012 10:19AM

Where the hell is Doni?

Is he off doing hostage negotiations or saving the rainforest or something?

Leiva · 27-08-2012 10:22AM

Wonder if this new partnership between Spurs and Real would give them first refusal in Sahin if he is surplus to requirements next season

Luckycharms_74 · 27-08-2012 10:27AM

whatawaster wrote: »

Ah now here . . . we want to ensure we get through to the group stages. Danny Wilson has no business playing for us in Europe at this moment in time. Agger will return next weekend, so Coates and Agger should play in the EL.
Reina

Kelly----Carra
Coates----Robinson
Spearing
Shelvey
Henderson

---Downing----Carroll
Sterling—

Subs: Jones, Flanagan, Skrtel, Allen, Adam, Morgan, Ecclestone

And then next weekend I’d play
Reina

Johnson---Skrtel---Agger
Enrique
Allen
Sahin----Gerrard
Suarez---Borini----Assaidi Sterling

Assuming Lucas is not fit.

I think Spearing will be gone tbh.

I think Sterling has to play next Sunday & I'm sure he will

Dickerty · 27-08-2012 10:27AM

Leiva wrote: »

Assaidi can't play as far as I know .

Sorry, yes - cup tied until the group stages...

PRAF · 27-08-2012 10:29AM

Dickerty wrote: »

The absence of any player shouldn't hurt us the way Lucas' absence last season did, and to an extent Suarez's as well. I think Allen can play that Lucas role very well, so he's ideal cover there, or he can play alongside him. Not sure we are covered for Suarez yes, just cause we are thin on goalscorers, but seems like we might address that.

Team for Thurs -
Jones
Flanno-Carra-Wilson-Robinson
Spearing
---Henderson
Adam
--Downing--Carroll--Assaidi--

Subs: Reina, Coates, Enrique, Spearing, Shelvey, Morgan, Ngoo

That team would be too weak IMO. Better to bring in 3 or 4 squad players to give some of the first teamers a break rather than making wholesale changes.

LuckyLloyd · 27-08-2012 10:29AM

whatawaster wrote: »

You might think Y should be greater than X, but:

- The club was not on steady ground under Moores IIRC. I can't remember us ever making profits, we were constantly in the red and leaking money.
- FSG inherited a massively bloated wage bill. So again the club was making large losses even without the burden of debt repayments. As of 1 year ago, the club had a structural loss of more than 30 million. Transfer spend of Y under FSG cannot be taken in isolation. We were/are paying players far more than they are now worth. Aquilani, Cole, Kuyt, Maxi, Bellamy, Gerrard, Carragher, Downing, Adam, Doni, Aurelio and Carroll all fall/fell into this category. You can't ignore that that has stunted our spending power over the last 2 years.

Even so, we have spent more than 20 million net a year under FSG. That is what everyone wanted before they came in. That is without a new stadium. That is without CL football. That is with a crippling wage bill that was allowed to grow and grow.
I'd bet there aren't many clubs in Europe who have spent more than us net in the last 2 years. Even fewer without one of two things: 1) CL Football 2) Sugar Daddy

Well they will need to sort this stuff out and get us to Y > X by a wide margin. That's the objective. I don't care what other clubs do. THIS club has revenues way in excess of what it did in 2004 and hasn't translated that into a huge increase in investment in the playing squad. I have no interest in excusing a reduction in squad investment. As a fan my interest is in constantly asking why they can't spend more when we are taking in more all the time.

I also don't buy the stuff floating around of 'oh well they got burned when they authorised big purchases last year I can understand if they don't want to spend again'. Wrong attitude. You got burned? So what. Onwards and upwards. Buy again. Keep going.

We have reacted positively to every bit of good commercial news (and there has been plenty). The objective for FSG should be to translate as high a percentage as possible of inward gains into playing squad investments. When that stops seeming to be their objective they are the enemy.

The Chessplayer · 27-08-2012 10:30AM

Vicxas wrote: »

To be honest, we did very very well without lucas yesterday. Ill be happy if we can have a decent season even when hes injured.

Already looks like Joe Allen could be our most important player. If only we'd had him last season when Lucas got injured.

Vicxas wrote: »

Where the hell is Doni?

Is he off doing hostage negotiations or saving the rainforest or something?

Let's nip this one in the bud. The Doni jokes were never funny for anyone over 12 years old.

gafferino · 27-08-2012 10:30AM

Leiva wrote: »

Wonder if this new partnership between Spurs and Real would give them first refusal in Sahin if he is surplus to requirements next season

????

Dickerty · 27-08-2012 10:31AM

whatawaster wrote: »

Ah now here . . . we want to ensure we get through to the group stages. Danny Wilson has no business playing for us in Europe at this moment in time. Agger will return next weekend, so Coates and Agger should play in the EL.
Reina

Kelly----Carra
Coates----Robinson
Spearing
Shelvey
Henderson

---Downing----Carroll
Sterling—

Subs: Jones, Flanagan, Skrtel, Allen, Adam, Morgan, Ecclestone

We need to give Wilson some shop-window time quickly, or he'll disappear into nowhereland. He's a good defender, it's not a big risk to play him, especially with Carra next door.

Sterling deserves to play against Arsenal, so he need a rest for Thursday. As someone reminded me, Assaidi still cup tied, so perhaps Downing, Carroll and Morgan to start?

Melion · 27-08-2012 10:32AM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Well they will need to sort this stuff out and get us to Y > X by a wide margin. That's the objective. I don't care what other clubs do. THIS club has revenues way in excess of what it did in 2004 and hasn't translated that into a huge increase in investment in the playing squad. I have no interest in excusing a reduction in squad investment. As a fan my interest is in constantly asking why they can't spend more when we are taking in more all the time.

We havent hugely increased our investment in the playing squad since 2004? Not even you can believe that rubbish.

I also don't buy the stuff floating around of 'oh well they got burned when they authorised big purchases last year I can understand if they don't want to spend again'. Wrong attitude. You got burned? So what. Onwards and upwards. Buy again. Keep going.

Ridiculous attitude.

And the sooner you realise they have other businesses to look after the better. They will NEVER put all their money into Liverpool.

Vicxas · 27-08-2012 10:33AM

The Chessplayer wrote: »

Let's nip this one in the bud. The Doni jokes were never funny for anyone over 12 years old.

Welcome to the soccer thread Buzz Killington. :P

Leiva · 27-08-2012 10:34AM

That £15mil fee still feels like getting burnt but he done very well yesterday it has to be said, and as i predicted his style and play will be adored by the fans.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHByVHXqZeI

Leiva · 27-08-2012 10:35AM

gafferino wrote: »

????

http://bit.ly/Qlo2lW

Melion · 27-08-2012 10:35AM

Leiva wrote: »

That £15mil fee still feels like getting burnt but he done very well yesterday it has to be said, and as i predicted his style and play will be adored by the fans.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHByVHXqZeI

NO.BRITISH.PLAYERS

Dickerty · 27-08-2012 10:35AM

PRAF wrote: »

That team would be too weak IMO. Better to bring in 3 or 4 squad players to give some of the first teamers a break rather than making wholesale changes.

Which ones? I wouldn't start any player who is due to start against Arsenal, if I could help it. Coates for Wilson is fair enough, but Spearing, Hendo, Adam, Downing, Carra, Flanno, Robinson, Carroll - they are all squad players who should be able to secure a result at home against a side like Hearts, when we won the first leg. That's most of our first team from last year.

PRAF · 27-08-2012 10:41AM

Dickerty wrote: »

Which ones? I wouldn't start any player who is due to start against Arsenal, if I could help it. Coates for Wilson is fair enough, but Spearing, Hendo, Adam, Downing, Carra, Flanno, Robinson, Carroll - they are all squad players who should be able to secure a result at home against a side like Hearts, when we won the firts leg. That's most of our first team from last year.

All of them are good squad players in their own right. I'm just not a fan of making wholesale changes to any team. Squad players coming into a team need to be able to look around and see at least 5 or 6 first teamers. For example Robinson would have a much better chance of playing well if he looks and sees Skirtl beside him. Ditto with Hendo looking and seeing Allen beside him rather than Adam.

The balance and confidence of a team is important. Making 11 changes is too risky for me!

whatawaster · 27-08-2012 10:42AM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Well they will need to sort this stuff out and get us to Y > X by a wide margin. That's the objective. I don't care what other clubs do. THIS club has revenues way in excess of what it did in 2004 and hasn't translated that into a huge increase in investment in the playing squad. I have no interest in excusing a reduction in squad investment. As a fan my interest is in constantly asking why they can't spend more when we are taking in more all the time.

I also don't buy the stuff floating around of 'oh well they got burned when they authorised big purchases last year I can understand if they don't want to spend again'. Wrong attitude. You got burned? So what. Onwards and upwards. Buy again. Keep going.

We have reacted positively to every bit of good commercial news (and there has been plenty). The objective for FSG should be to translate as high a percentage as possible of inward gains into playing squad investments. When that stops seeming to be their objective they are the enemy.

You're not living in the real world. I don't have 2004 data to hand, but since 2006 our revenue has increased by around 50%. But guess what? Our wage bill has gone up by almost 90%

You want the club to keep spending, spending money it does not have. That's fine. But those losses will become debts and we will become another Leeds United.

Questions:
1) Do you think we should have kept the wage bill at the level it was last season?
2) Do you think the club should rack up losses chasing success?

Edit: We have had massive increases in revenues and all of this and more has been invested in the playing squad, most of it mis-directed in the form of wages to ageing players

nicol · 27-08-2012 10:53AM

That backpass at 2:15!!! Nearly gave me a heart attack. Looks like a class act so far, comfortable on the ball, strong for such a small fella and knows how to pick a pass!!

Leiva wrote: »

That £15mil fee still feels like getting burnt but he done very well yesterday it has to be said, and as i predicted his style and play will be adored by the fans.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHByVHXqZeI

Dickerty · 27-08-2012 10:55AM

nicol wrote: »

That backpass at 2:15!!! Nearly gave me a heart attack. Looks like a class act so far, comfortable on the ball, strong for such a small fella and knows how to pick a pass!!

Great little moment at about 1:10 - shields the ball to win it, turns and hits a first-time left footed pass, nch perfect.

He's metronomic. I can see him handing the ball off to Sahin all game long to look for that forward pass...

Dickerty · 27-08-2012 11:09AM

PRAF wrote: »

All of them are good squad players in their own right. I'm just not a fan of making wholesale changes to any team. Squad players coming into a team need to be able to look around and see at least 5 or 6 first teamers. For example Robinson would have a much better chance of playing well if he looks and sees Skirtl beside him. Ditto with Hendo looking and seeing Allen beside him rather than Adam.

The balance and confidence of a team is important. Making 11 changes is too risky for me!

I see your point. But the first team isn't fully established yet, these guys were all in the mix during pre season, so shouldn't be a huge ask. If Rodgers is drilling them the way we think, they should all know their jobs and bring it together.

But hey, I reckon the boss knows best!

citytillidie · 27-08-2012 11:11AM

Leiva wrote: »

Wonder if this new partnership between Spurs and Real would give them first refusal in Sahin if he is surplus to requirements next season

I say its more a way of Real to tie up Bale next summer if he has another good season

Dont be at yourself · 27-08-2012 11:11AM

Are some people under the impression that FSG are creaming off club profits for themselves or something? You can't expect much from them than what they've put in already. Maybe some would like to be bankrolled by a sugardaddy Sheikh or oligarc, but I'm happy enough that after initial investment, they're trying to get the house in-order and make Liverpool self-sustaining.

We won't see massive injections of cash every transfer window, but equally we won't see the club's revenues go to pay interest on debt or dividends to leeching owners. And that puts us in a better position than most other clubs in Europe.

Spunking £100 million on players isn't the answer -- we know, we've done it last year. Based on our summer so far, I'd rather trust Rodgers with £40 million than Dalglish and Comolli with £100 million. And that, ultimately, is how we'll be operating in the future. We'll have some financial muscle -- enough to outmaneavour a lot of teams, as the Sahin deal shows -- but to compete with City and Chelsea, we'll need to be shrewder and smarter.

Vudgie · 27-08-2012 11:13AM

Melion wrote: »

NO.BRITISH.PLAYERS

Alleninho!

Dickerty · 27-08-2012 11:21AM

citytillidie wrote: »

I say its more a way of Real to tie up Bale next summer if he has another good season

But also for loans and fringe players to go to London. But at the end of the day, a player will only make a move if it works for them, not for some corporate partnership...

LiamoSail · 27-08-2012 11:34AM

Dickerty wrote: »

But also for loans and fringe players to go to London. But at the end of the day, a player will only make a move if it works for them, not for some corporate partnership...

Real never seem to have any issue loaning players out in La Liga, and infact its something that has often been criticised. So I don't see what benefit loaning players to Spurs as opposed to a domestic side offers

It can be argued that loaning players to other La Liga clubs gives them a unfair advantage in that clubs they've lent players to come to rely on these players and are then considerably weaker when they face Real as they have to leave the players out

The most Spurs will see out of that partnership is probably a few glamour friendlies (hate that phrase), and possibly a loan signing or two.

Slightly ironic though of all clubs to announce a partnership with Spurs, it was Franco's club

gafferino · 27-08-2012 11:42AM

Joe Allen was the best passer on the park during Liverpool's 2-2 draw with Manchester City, according to Opta stats.

The Welshman completed 93.5 per cent of his passes, with 10.9 per cent of his kicks being long balls.

Jonjo Shelvey was Liverpool's second most accurate passer with an 88 per cent completion rate and 10 per cent falling into Opta's definition of long.

For Manchester City, Nigel de Jong came out on top with 93.1 per cent but just 2.8 per cent of his passes were long.

Goalkeeper aside, Martin Skrtel was Liverpool's most ambitious passer, going long on 19.4 per cent of occasions.

Pablo Zabaleta made 13 clearances, Vincent Kompany made 12. Skrtel was Liverpool's top clearer with eight.

Kolo Toure was the most impressive tackler on the day, winning 85.7 per cent of his seven challenges.

Meanwhile, Yaya Toure had more touches the anyone else - 89. Steven Gerrard topped this list for Liverpool with 84.

De Jong won an impressive 100 per cent of the duels he entered.

Sebastian Coates excelled here for the Reds with 71.4. The 21-year-old prevailed in 100 per cent of his aerial duels.

Luis Suarez attempted more shots than anyone else during the game - five. One, his goal, was on target.

Suarez and Gerrard each tried their luck from outside the area on three occasions.

Kompany and Raheem Sterling conceded the most fouls with three each. Mario Balotelli was the biggest victim, earning four free-kicks.

Liverpool had 17 shots to City's 11. However, the hosts had a shot accuracy of 25 per cent compared with City's 37.5 per cent.

Roberto Mancini's men edged the possession counter with 51.3 per cent.

They also played slightly more passes - 484 to 462. Their accuracy was also better - 84.1 to 80.5. This could be down to Liverpool playing it long more often - 14.9 per cent to City's 8.7.

SlickRic · 27-08-2012 11:54AM

i'm going to hate the term "pass completion" before the end of September I reckon.

tok9 · 27-08-2012 12:03PM

Is Nuri available for Thursday?

amiable · 27-08-2012 12:04PM

Vicxas wrote: »

Where the hell is Doni?

Is he off doing hostage negotiations or saving the rainforest or something?

He's back in Brazil so both are highly likely

Chucky the tree · 27-08-2012 12:05PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Well they will need to sort this stuff out and get us to Y > X by a wide margin. That's the objective. I don't care what other clubs do. THIS club has revenues way in excess of what it did in 2004 and hasn't translated that into a huge increase in investment in the playing squad. I have no interest in excusing a reduction in squad investment. As a fan my interest is in constantly asking why they can't spend more when we are taking in more all the time.

I also don't buy the stuff floating around of 'oh well they got burned when they authorised big purchases last year I can understand if they don't want to spend again'. Wrong attitude. You got burned? So what. Onwards and upwards. Buy again. Keep going.

We have reacted positively to every bit of good commercial news (and there has been plenty). The objective for FSG should be to translate as high a percentage as possible of inward gains into playing squad investments. When that stops seeming to be their objective they are the enemy.

Since 2004 we've also spent far more money. So will revenue have increased hugely so have outgoings. Last year their was only a £10m profit between our revenue and expenditure. The aim of the owners is to reduce that expenditure and increase revenues allowing increase investment in the squad. The problem is it won't happen every night, no different to any other business.

Since 2006 there has been huge investment in the playing squad. Our wage bill went from £69m to £129m last year. No doubt we had lots of players on more money than Kevin Nolan and look where that has gotten us in the last few years.

It's easy to say "onwards and upwards" when it isn't your money, I'm a bit more realistic though. They paid for the club, paid for last years £50m loss, will be paying most likely for another loss this year and hopefully paying for a stadium expansion soon. They can't get keep dipping their hands into their pockets every year.

Liverpool FC Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2012/13

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