The Homeless

Quorum · 26-08-2012 11:18AM

Bipolar Joe wrote: »

I was homeless for two years, and a really good friend of mine works with them.

As was already said, a high percentage homeless people with an addiction became users after the fact. Having to sleep rough, with the wind, rain, random people kicking the shit out of you, spitting on you, looking down on you like they know your story will make anyone look for a psychological out when an opportunity to own a roof doesn't present it's self. How long that time is is down to the individual, but it is rarely long. Drink and drugs are simple and cheap ways to make the long days and even longer nights that more bearable. Once the opportunity DOES come along, it's already too late.

Mental illness is incredibly prevalent among the homeless, and I'm not talking about little Jimmy with ADHD. Drink and drugs hit these people the worst, because dealers and pushers will take advantage of them, so easy to spot if you know what to look for.

None of this "If you think IRELAND has a problem, go check out......!" Ireland does have a problem. Anywhere with a high amount of homeless has a problem. Doesn't make it any less of a problem if some place has more.

I give what I can, when I can. I know what it's like, it's not easy, and if I can help, in literally any way I can, I will.

For any one interested, look up your local homeless shelters, get the addresses and if someone "Bothers" you, give it to them. It's the quickest, easiest and most effective way to know if a homeless person is genuine or just looking for a fix.

Peace, love and rockets.

Really well said.

bnt · 26-08-2012 11:39AM

If I see a homeless person, I feel genuinely unqualified to deal with him or her. They have needs that I don't understand (as other posters above do), and I'm concerned that just giving money could serve to perpetuate their situation rather than make a real difference in their lives.

No doubt some of you will see that as "making excuses" - this is AH, knock yourselves out - but since some of my money (via tax) is already being taken to fund "social welfare" and spent inefficiently, I need to know that if I give even more, it's going to make a real difference where it matters. Not just "kicking the can down the road", perpetuating the cycle of homelessness forever.

cloud493 · 26-08-2012 11:43AM

I feel its up to the government to give these people the tools, to bring themselves up, rather than me throwing money at them. And the fact that most homeless people turn into arseholes when you don't give them money or smokes.

Plus, I'm fairly cheap. These people made their choices, I work for my money, they can **** off.

Quorum · 26-08-2012 11:51AM

bnt wrote: »

If I see a homeless person, I feel genuinely unqualified to deal with him or her. They have needs that I don't understand (as other posters above do), and I'm concerned that just giving money could serve to perpetuate their situation rather than make a real difference in their lives.

Yes, this. I feel kinda helpless when I see a homeless person, as I feel I have to be a pyschiatrist, an MD, a counsellor, a paramedic all rolled into one.

26-08-2012 12:36PM

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Was that down on Fishermans Wharf? That guy has been there for years. Did you see the Bush man too? seriously folks if you think homelessness is an issue here, Goto San Fran (a city with a smaller population than Dublin). The Streets are thronged with homeless people. The protections here are alot better for someone down on their luck than in US.

No it was in downtown San Fran. The level of homelessness is quite an eye opener over there, not just in San Fran but in LA and San Diego too. San Fran is that bit worse though and the fact it rained continually for the 3 days I was there compared to fantastic weather in the other two cities also made it stand out more.

mattjack · 26-08-2012 01:12PM

cowzerp wrote: »

School kids are certainly told what is addictive and life changing, Most people who get into Hard drugs such as Heroin come from areas rife with Heroin and are very well in the know to what makes a junkie/zombie-they make the choice to become junkies and I have no sympathy for junkies at all.

I work part time with homeless people and people with different types of addiction including heroin.
I've yet to meet one who choose to become an addict.

Addiction in itself is loss of choice,you may choose to experiment not to become an addict.
Addiction starts as experimentation,then recreation leading to habitual problematic use.

cowzerp · 26-08-2012 01:29PM

mattjack wrote: »

I work part time with homeless people and people with different types of addiction including heroin.
I've yet to meet one who choose to become an addict.

Addiction in itself is loss of choice,you may choose to experiment not to become an addict.
Addiction starts as experimentation,then recreation leading to habitual problematic use.

PC bs, you inject Heroin into your veins 1st time you are making a choice to take a highly addictive drug that ruins you and your family's lifes, In the very early days of Heroin i could agree with you that maybe people just wanted a buzz and where not aware of the consequences, These days it is very clear.

I know many many Brass Monkeys and they where all very aware of the dangers and just done it anyway.

mattjack · 26-08-2012 01:52PM

cowzerp wrote: »

PC bs, you inject Heroin into your veins 1st time you are making a choice to take a highly addictive drug that ruins you and your family's lifes, In the very early days of Heroin i could agree with you that maybe people just wanted a buzz and where not aware of the consequences, These days it is very clear.

I know many many Brass Monkeys and they where all very aware of the dangers and just done it anyway.

A buzz of heroin ? heroin is an escape drug, it allows people relief from whatever anxieties or pain they experience in life be it the aftermath child abuse,extreme's of deprivation or whatever pain they experience in life.
There's nothing recreational about heroin that gives a buzz.

PC bs , Brass Monkeys and junkies all they are , are standard blanket answers I'll remember those comments when I see an addict with a dual diagnosis alongside his homelessness with an institutionalised background .

You may know some addicts , but you really don't know why they took heroin in the first place.

cowzerp · 26-08-2012 01:57PM

mattjack wrote: »

A buzz of heroin ? heroin is an escape drug, it allows people relief from whatever anxieties or pain they experience in life be it the aftermath child abuse,extreme's of deprivation or whatever pain they experience in life.
There's nothing recreational about heroin that gives a buzz.

I know many Heroine addicts and they where always looking for a buzz, may have been an E at a rave or an Acid at a party, I've never met any that took it as they where feeling sad, obviously it's a possibility but All i knew where looking for a buzz and if you think you don't get a buzz/high off Heroin then your clueless, Close mates have mine have died due to this drug and they done it for the craic at 1st, but we'll go with your pc line and say they must have been abused.

Odysseus · 26-08-2012 02:10PM

cowzerp wrote: »

PC bs, you inject Heroin into your veins 1st time you are making a choice to take a highly addictive drug that ruins you and your family's lifes, In the very early days of Heroin i could agree with you that maybe people just wanted a buzz and where not aware of the consequences, These days it is very clear.

I know many many Brass Monkeys and they where all very aware of the dangers and just done it anyway.

That shows a very poor insight into addictive states and their aetiology, there are many mechanisms involved in the development of various addictions, and basing it as a mere choice is BS, just as much as labelling anything that disagrees with that opinion as PC.

What is it about addiction that facilitates the use of such drugs and a minimisation of the consequences? In fact continued use despite ongoing personal and social consequences is a criterion for the diagnosis of addiction, rather than the use of substances in and of itself. There is so much more to addiction than the use of drugs.

If it is just a choice why do people make that choice? Does this not imply that there is something more to it than that? I could even put a number on the amount of addicts I have worked with over the years; I have never dealt with such a case where addiction is such a choice.

Thankfully these types of opinions belong to a time long gone; we understand a bit more about addiction today. Treatment in Ireland has a lot of ground to still cover, but we are moving forward and treating people better that we were 20 years ago

mattjack · 26-08-2012 02:11PM

cowzerp wrote: »

I know many Heroine addicts and they where always looking for a buzz, may have been an E at a rave or an Acid at a party, I've never met any that took it as they where feeling sad, obviously it's a possibility but All i knew where looking for a buzz and if you think you don't get a buzz/high off Heroin then your clueless, Close mates have mine have died due to this drug and they done it for the craic at 1st, but we'll go with your pc line and say they must have been abused.

Heroin is an opiate , a pain killer.. not a stimulant no comparison to acid or E , first time users often experience vomiting,effects on the nervous system i.e suppresses breathing and the heart beat.
There is no buzz or euphoria , its an escape drug because they can't experience pleasure like a non addicted person.
The 'high' you see or an addict experiences is 'goofing off' , not good to look at.

I haven't called you clueless or your comments BS and I would imagine if I did ,I would be censured very quickly.

cowzerp · 26-08-2012 02:23PM

mattjack wrote: »

The 'high' you see or an addict experiences is 'goofing off' , not good to look at.

I haven't called you clueless or your comments BS and I would imagine if I did ,I would be censured very quickly.

doesn't matter what it looks like, it only matters what they experience, aswell as that your only looking at it from an addicted point of view, I'm coming at it from before addiction, I guess you are from an are that does not have a massive heroin problem and your experiences with junkies are when there already hooked, Mates of mine have gone from drug to drug till they became zombies so i have seen it from scratch, by your reasoning i severely doubt you have,

This is after hours not personal issues, I'm calling you clueless because i believe you are.

redandwhite · 26-08-2012 02:28PM

I don't think many people realise how close a lot of people are too being homeless. A run of bad luck and most of us could end up on the street.

Odysseus · 26-08-2012 02:41PM

redandwhite wrote: »

I don't think many people realise how close a lot of people are too being homeless. A run of bad luck and most of us could end up on the street.

Yeah there are a lot of people in significant trouble out there. As you said they might get past one, two or even three setbacks; but if life really messes with them, it won't take much.

Bipolar Joe · 26-08-2012 02:45PM

Odysseus wrote: »

That shows a very poor insight into addictive states and their aetiology, there are many mechanisms involved in the development of various addictions, and basing it as a mere choice is BS, just as much as labelling anything that disagrees with that opinion as PC.

What is it about addiction that facilitates the use of such drugs and a minimisation of the consequences? In fact continued use despite ongoing personal and social consequences is a criterion for the diagnosis of addiction, rather than the use of substances in and of itself. There is so much more to addiction than the use of drugs.

If it is just a choice why do people make that choice? Does this not imply that there is something more to it than that? I could even put a number on the amount of addicts I have worked with over the years; I have never dealt with such a case where addiction is such a choice.

Thankfully these types of opinions belong to a time long gone; we understand a bit more about addiction today. Treatment in Ireland has a lot of ground to still cover, but we are moving forward and treating people better that we were 20 years ago

I was hoping you might make your way into this thread. I've dealt with addicts, and been one myself (Not heroin, other crap). Feeling the reason and understand it are completely different, it's something I'm always trying to figure out.

Odysseus · 26-08-2012 03:02PM

Bipolar Joe wrote: »

I was hoping you might make your way into this thread. I've dealt with addicts, and been one myself (Not heroin, other crap). Feeling the reason and understand it are completely different, it's something I'm always trying to figure out.

Though I would be the first to acknowledge how complex things like addiction are, I generally avoid these type of threads due to the generalisations and ignorance displayed in them.

Could you expand on your last sentence in that post, as I couldn't fully understand it.

mattjack · 26-08-2012 03:06PM

cowzerp wrote: »

doesn't matter what it looks like, it only matters what they experience, aswell as that your only looking at it from an addicted point of view, I'm coming at it from before addiction, I guess you are from an are that does not have a massive heroin problem and your experiences with junkies are when there already hooked, Mates of mine have gone from drug to drug till they became zombies so i have seen it from scratch, by your reasoning i severely doubt you have,

This is after hours not personal issues, I'm calling you clueless because i believe you are.

That's a very simple one dimensional opinion , you're basing it on a few friends ...I can do that , I can list off friends and family members who are addicted , were addicted and who are now dead.
Did your friends die from overdose,blood borne virus,suicide or murder ?.

Where I'm from is irrelevant , but I'm from the city centre originally,lived in Crumlin for a while, then Leixlip and then Finglas.

By your rationale and of course this is AH anyone one who disagrees with you is clueless and their opinion is BS so I'll leave it with you.

oppenheimer1 · 26-08-2012 03:12PM

FairytaleGirl wrote: »

When I lived in Toronto there was a well known homeless man, he was a big laywer who went bankrupt, his wife left him and he ended up getting into drugs wile living on the streets. Everyone knew him because he wore and old beat out suit. He ended up going mental then spitting at people and all
Point being, you have no idea why people end up on the streets, and an awful lot of people end up turning to drugs to make being homelessness a bit more bearable. In some places once you hit the streets thats it, no address to claim benefits then and no way of getting on your feet, or there are those that are simply too proud to ask for help.

Giving them food/tea is always welcome i find.

It is simply not true that homeless people cannot claim benefits.In fact most of them are on disability allowance, hence the bus pass.

Bipolar Joe · 26-08-2012 03:13PM

Odysseus wrote: »

Though I would be the first to acknowledge how complex things like addiction are, I generally avoid these type of threads due to the generalisations and ignorance displayed in them.

Could you expand on your last sentence in that post, as I couldn't fully understand it.

Yeah, reading it there didn't make a whole lot of sense. When I was homeless, I ended up becoming an addict. Trying to understand my reasons for it, the desperation despite knowing it could make things a lot worse. Screws with your head, trying to make sense of it.

ITS_A_BADGER · 26-08-2012 03:20PM

cowzerp wrote: »

Anyone who gives money to these lads are clueless, Take the PC brigade out and in most cases the 2-3 euro will go towards smokes, Dutch gold or drugs.

School kids are certainly told what is addictive and life changing, Most people who get into Hard drugs such as Heroin come from areas rife with Heroin and are very well in the know to what makes a junkie/zombie-they make the choice to become junkies and I have no sympathy for junkies at all.

Homeless does not equal junkies but most Homeless have mental issues and are using drink or drugs, aswell as this, in reality been homeless in most cases is a choice.

So you wouldnt give them an option to get some food with the money? why are you so certain that the money will go on these instead of food? dont get me wrong ive seen homeless people with cans and smokes and probably even drugs but you seem adamant that it will go on the above so you thats excuse for not throwing them a few euro, thats fine you dont have to give them anything, what im saying is id like to give them the option of food,

Taking homeless as a choice is a ridiculous statement to make, you're telling me the homeless people choose to be homeless ? offer one a bed in your home then see does he/her take you up on the offer if your so certain

the_syco · 26-08-2012 03:25PM

ITS_A_BADGER wrote: »

absolutely give to the homeless

Do a €5 direct-debit to a charity such as the Simon community, then.

Any money the homeless people get goes towards drink and drugs. And why should they stop when they keep getting money? The best thing is to give the people on the street nothing, as this will force them into the homeless shelters, whose purpose is to help these people get back onto their feet.

cowzerp · 26-08-2012 03:25PM

mattjack wrote: »

That's a very simple one dimensional opinion , you're basing it on a few friends ...I can do that , I can list off friends and family members who are addicted , were addicted and who are now dead.
Did your friends die from overdose,blood borne virus,suicide or murder ?.

How they died is irrelevant, My point is they started Heroine for the craic, And a few friends is a major downplay too!

Look your right and I am wrong, people who try Heroin are looking for an escape from abuse and not for a kick!

They where just having a kick along the way on other things trying to find this ultimate escape :rolleyes:

cowzerp · 26-08-2012 03:29PM

ITS_A_BADGER wrote: »

Taking homeless as a choice is a ridiculous statement to make, you're telling me the homeless people choose to be homeless ? offer one a bed in your home then see does he/her take you up on the offer if your so certain

been made homeless is not easy, don't pay your rent ever and you will still not be made homeless, Most people who end up homeless have mental issues, some from addictions others natural, once your Homeless it is harder to get back on the housing etc but nobody just gets dumped on the streets in this day and age, even if thrown out of your home you can be looked after if you want to be.

Odysseus · 26-08-2012 03:36PM

Bipolar Joe wrote: »

Yeah, reading it there didn't make a whole lot of sense. When I was homeless, I ended up becoming an addict. Trying to understand my reasons for it, the desperation despite knowing it could make things a lot worse. Screws with your head, trying to make sense of it.

Sometimes it takes years to get an understanding, something our understanding of the reasons change over time too. I do believe it is very important to look back and examin the reasons; however, it is just as important to focus on the present and future too, acknowledging that things are no longer like that. If that makes any sense.

paddyandy · 26-08-2012 03:47PM

The Later Drug users have plenty of examples before them of what Drugs can do and why they follow is hard to figure out .Why after more than three decades are they still doing drugs out there ?

cowzerp · 26-08-2012 03:56PM

paddyandy wrote: »

The Later Drug users have plenty of examples before them of what Drugs can do and why they follow is hard to figure out .Why after more than three decades are they still doing drugs out there ?

Logically thinking you're spot on, But most these people have been chasing a high for years and will take anything which will give them a high, they all think they won't get hooked

Even most ex Junkies will tell you they where just after a buzz and it got out of hand, This junk of people trying to escape there life is just not the case, maybe there is cases but most are just people looking to get out of their faces and get hooked.

Absolute idiots it has to be said anyone in this day and age who try's heroine.

paddyandy · 26-08-2012 04:20PM

Trying to escape the settings around them of reckless abandon and crime and seeing no other way ? Anxieties ..very good for a lot of industries and professions .

cloud493 · 26-08-2012 04:25PM

I have never seen any homeless person eating. That might sound a bit of an odd thing to say, but you never see a homeless person holding a sandwich. plenty of them with cheap larger or cheap smokes.

Odysseus · 26-08-2012 04:40PM

cowzerp wrote: »

Logically thinking you're spot on, But most these people have been chasing a high for years and will take anything which will give them a high, they all think they won't get hooked

Even most ex Junkies will tell you they where just after a buzz and it got out of hand, This junk of people trying to escape there life is just not the case, maybe there is cases but most are just people looking to get out of their faces and get hooked.

Absolute idiots it has to be said anyone in this day and age who try's heroine.

I have never come across a case of addiction that is just down to boredom, that is plain idocity, and I have worked with thoudsand of addicts; active and recovering.

Even chasing a high is more compkex than that, if addiction was just a result of boredom, I and other professionals would not spend thousands of hours providing psychological treatment, or developing complex thrid level training in the treatment of addictive states.

Private treatment facilities which cost more that e13,000 treat addictive states, treat much more that just boredom. There are no simplistic answers to complex pathologies like addiction.

cowzerp · 26-08-2012 05:26PM

Odysseus wrote: »

I have never come across a case of addiction that is just down to boredom, that is plain idocity, and I have worked with thoudsand of addicts; active and recovering.

Funny because i never mentioned Boredom, you don't have to be bored to want to chase a high!

The Homeless

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