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IRISH PRESIDENT MICHAEL D.HIGGINS ATTACKS TEA PARTY IN DEBATE

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Comments

  • #2
    mosstin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,467 ✭✭✭mosstin


    poeticseraphim wrote: »
    Whole debate


    http://www.newstalk.ie/2012/featured-5-slideshow-homepage/michael-d-higgins-vs-michael-graham-on-newstalk/


    Michael D. Higgins clip short version


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5OWRRJh-PI

    It has gone viral !

    It is from two years ago.
    What do you think?


    Fiery Michael D!!!!

    In the longer verssion he really had him on Gaza ...hey it would be great to make the longer version go Viral too :-)

    GO MICHAEL D HIGGINS!!

    "a wanker whipping up fear"

    Never. A. Truer. Word.


  • #3
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    mosstin wrote: »
    "a wanker whipping up fear"

    Never. A. Truer. Word.

    I havemot seen the video but I find the use of the word 'wanker' to be an odd choice from one as articulate as Michael D


  • #4
    poeticseraphim
    Closed Accounts Posts: 930 ✭✭✭poeticseraphim


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    I havemot seen the video but I find the use of the word 'wanker' to be an odd choice from one as articulate as Michael D


    Please you have to watch the longer clip...and yes he is artiuclate in the whole debate...


  • #5
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,587 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Well, points for passion, I would say, though detracted for manner and style.


  • #6
    karma_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,797 ✭✭✭karma_


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    Well, points for passion, I would say, though detracted for manner and style.

    His manner and style were impeccable.


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  • #7
    juan.kerr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,766 ✭✭✭juan.kerr


    Very unstatesman like language though, particularly from a spokesman for Foreign Affairs.

    I wonder what impact (if any) this would have had on the presidential compaign.


  • #8
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    juan.kerr wrote: »
    Very unstatesman like language though, particularly from a spokesman for Foreign Affairs.

    I wonder what impact (if any) this would have had on the presidential compaign.
    Well none, as this was doing the rounds before he was president.


  • #9
    juan.kerr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,766 ✭✭✭juan.kerr


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    Well none, as this was doing the rounds before he was president.

    Fair enough, this week was the first I heard of it. Was its dissemination as widespread in Ireland as it is this week, covered in all the mainstream media (that you parents might see) as opposed to boards.ie or other forums and forwarded emails etc.


  • #10
    Pawwed Rig
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,477 ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    Michael Graham (the protagonist in this clip) is on George hook regularly. He is a controversial 'shock jock' from the US that George uses to fire up the listeners. He has right wing American views and was a big supporter of George Bush. He is an interesting man in that he represents the views of many Americans whose opinions we don't get to hear much.

    This was a couple of years ago though. this is the third post I have seen on this in the last 3 days. Not sure why it has surfaced again all of a sudden.


  • #11
    poeticseraphim
    Closed Accounts Posts: 930 ✭✭✭poeticseraphim


    Pawwed Rig wrote: »
    Michael Graham (the protagonist in this clip) is on George hook regularly. He is a controversial 'shock jock' from the US that George uses to fire up the listeners. He has right wing American views and was a big supporter of George Bush. He is an interesting man in that he represents the views of many Americans whose opinions we don't get to hear much.

    This was a couple of years ago though. this is the third post I have seen on this in the last 3 days. Not sure why it has surfaced again all of a sudden.


    I actually thin we hear them a lot...they are quite loud after all. Really i thinnk they are represented in equal numbers compared to any other voice or group.

    It has urfaced again because the clip has gone viral in the past coupe of days getting in the US press ...it has gone beyond Ireland.

    Richard Dawkins had high praise for Michael D Higgins regarding the full interview and debate which i think people need to hear to really understand the full impact either side had regardless of what opinion you had of either them you should hear it all.

    To manyare just getting the snippet which is edited from biits of what Michael D higgins said. Which is unfair maybe to both parties.


    Let face it Richard Dawkins rarely praises anyone or anything so it's noteworthy:)


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  • #12
    Sound of Silence
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭Sound of Silence


    This was posted on Reddit a while back. Other than that, I'm not sure how it's become viral.

    Some other posters have talked about his unstatesman like language potentially having a negative affect on his image. I think we would be deluded to believe that many people outside of Ireland or the UK would even know who our President is, let alone be interested in how he portrays himself.

    As such, I would encourage the President to continue to speak his mind in, as at the very least it gives us the hope that even some of our Politicians continue to be interested and passionate about Politics.


  • #13
    rugbyman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,789 ✭✭✭rugbyman


    I like Michael D, the short version of the clip sounds good ,as he is a good speaker as if P.Flynn(yes) and George Galloway, but the message is the same old stuff that is their own favourite stuff, appealing to the masses.
    somewhat low brow. ( ok ,will listen to it all later)

    Regards Rugbyman


  • #14
    Pawwed Rig
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,477 ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    Well I am talking about mainstream media such as Irish radio, RTE, BBC. I like listening to Michael Graham. He has entertainment value. Whereas I don't agree with 90% of what he says it is interesting to hear the extreme points of view every now and again.


  • #15
    The Dagda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,344 ✭✭✭The Dagda


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    I havemot seen the video but I find the use of the word 'wanker' to be an odd choice from one as articulate as Michael D

    I think Mickey D's choice of word was partly down to having earlier been accused by, that clown, Graham, as being anti-semetic , and supporting "baby killing terrorists".

    Graham is an uninformed idiot who should't be given any airtime here to peddle his bigotry, whatever about the states, George Hook is, for some unknown reason, dazzled by his celebrity in America, and seems to think having him on his show is enlightening, as it allows us to hear views that we might not otherwise hear. George is wrong, Graham's views do not add anything sensible to any debate.


  • #16
    mosstin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,467 ✭✭✭mosstin


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    I havemot seen the video but I find the use of the word 'wanker' to be an odd choice from one as articulate as Michael D

    Well, look at it this way, only a wanker would have called him an onanist.


  • #17
    juan.kerr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,766 ✭✭✭juan.kerr


    mosstin wrote: »
    Well, look at it this way, only a wanker would have called him an onanist.

    Surprised Higgins didn't use the term onanist then...


  • #18
    Pawwed Rig
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,477 ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    The Dagda wrote: »
    Graham is an uninformed idiot who should't be given any airtime here to peddle his bigotry, whatever about the states, George Hook is, for some unknown reason, dazzled by his celebrity in America, and seems to think having him on his show is enlightening, as it allows us to hear views that we might not otherwise hear. George is wrong, Graham's views do not add anything sensible to any debate.

    I respectfully disagree. Freedom of speech is there so people with alternative opinions to ours can be heard. Whether he is an uninformed idiot or not does not lessen the fact that many Americans think like this.


  • #19
    joseph brand
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,540 ✭✭✭joseph brand


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    I havemot seen the video but I find the use of the word 'wanker' to be an odd choice from one as articulate as Michael D

    If there's one thing that irks me across the forums, it's people commenting on a video/ audio clip without watching/ listening to it first. Same goes for print.

    Step 1. Check it out for yourself.
    Step 2. Express your opinion.

    Don't skip step 1. and fall unwanted into step 2. I thought we all knew this? :confused:


  • #20
    juan.kerr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,766 ✭✭✭juan.kerr


    Why should we have to watch / listen to his tripe? The issue at hand is the use of the word wanker. Context is not relevant.


  • #21
    matthew8
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,597 ✭✭✭matthew8


    Most unpresidential. Michael Graham's a fun guy to listen to. Higgins seems to have let him under his skin. I wonder what the reaction would have been if Gay Mitchell had called a left wing presenter a wanker.


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  • #22
    The Dagda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,344 ✭✭✭The Dagda


    Pawwed Rig wrote: »
    I respectfully disagree. Freedom of speech is there so people with alternative opinions to ours can be heard. Whether he is an uninformed idiot or not does not lessen the fact that many Americans think like this.

    I would respectfully disagree with this. The freedom of speech is fine and dandy, but when you are broadcasting your views, you owe the listener the courtesy of telling the truth. Graham does not always tell the truth, either through not knowing it, or only telling part of the story. He may do this because he's simply thick, or he may do it on purpose to further his own agenda, only he knows. The problem is that some people will believe what he says, and that is dangerous.

    I'm confident that there are not as many people that think the same way as Graham, and his like, would like us to believe. The fact that he has an audience in America only confirms there are some. In any case, my point is that George Hook should not be giving him a platform in Ireland for him to spread his bullsh1t.


  • #23
    Pawwed Rig
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,477 ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    That is politics. People don't tell the truth. Labour for example (Michael D's Party) said that they would not introduce third level fees, FG said they would pay back Eircom share owners etc etc. We don't need to look beyond our own shores for people who lie because it is the popular thing to do at the time. M Graham is first and foremost an entertainer. It is common on American TV and radio to make outlandlish statements to get a reaction from the public/guests. It is not how radio/TV works over here so maybe it is just we are not used to it. As I said what Graham says resonates with many people in the US so I think the platform should be there for someone like him to give an alternative point of view. As with everything you get the alternatives and make up your own mind


  • #24
    joseph brand
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,540 ✭✭✭joseph brand


    juan.kerr wrote: »
    Why should we have to watch / listen to his tripe?

    What?? Nobody forced you to listen to it, but in order to comment on it, it's kinda helpful.
    juan.kerr wrote: »
    The issue at hand is the use of the word wanker. Context is not relevant.

    Go listen to the clip would ya?

    Honestly, it's like your reviewing a movie you've never seen. I can't spell out it any simpler. Sigh.


  • #25
    juan.kerr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,766 ✭✭✭juan.kerr


    joseph brand wrote: »
    What?? Nobody forced you to listen to it, but in order to comment on it, it's kinda helpful.



    Go listen to the clip would ya?

    Honestly, it's like your reviewing a movie you've never seen. I can't spell out it any simpler. Sigh.

    Just because the Higgins apologists are trying to justify his degrading language doesn't make it acceptable. I don't need to hear the clip to form an opinion on the appropriateness.

    To compare this to a film reviewer not seeing the film is laughable.

    Next you'll say I'm not entitled to an opinion on NAMA as I didn't read the legislation.


  • #26
    Channel Zero
    Closed Accounts Posts: 333 ✭✭Channel Zero


    A very eloquent orator is Michael D.

    It seems he chooses his words carefully..


  • #27
    therewillbe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 741 ✭✭✭therewillbe


    poeticseraphim wrote: »
    Whole debate


    http://www.newstalk.ie/2012/featured-5-slideshow-homepage/michael-d-higgins-vs-michael-graham-on-newstalk/


    Michael D. Higgins clip short version


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5OWRRJh-PI

    It has gone viral !

    It is from two years ago.
    What do you think?


    Fiery Michael D!!!!

    In the longer verssion he really had him on Gaza ...hey it would be great to make the longer version go Viral too :-)

    GO MICHAEL D HIGGINS!!

    Respect to OUR President.The whole version is classic.


  • #28
    poeticseraphim
    Closed Accounts Posts: 930 ✭✭✭poeticseraphim


    juan.kerr wrote: »
    Just because the Higgins apologists are trying to justify his degrading language doesn't make it acceptable. I don't need to hear the clip to form an opinion on the appropriateness.

    To compare this to a film reviewer not seeing the film is laughable.

    Next you'll say I'm not entitled to an opinion on NAMA as I didn't read the legislation.

    Yes you need to hear the clip to form a knowledged based belief or opinion on the context and appropriateness. Context and subtext are relevant. How do you know unless you listen...infact how would you even know he even really used the word wanker and that we are not lying to you?

    You don't seem to understand the difference between an opinion and knowledge and fact based judgement.

    You can have an opinion on epistemology and think it means something to do with horses. It just means that we would be unwise to listen to you.

    You are not entitled to have an opinion unchallenged ....that is what saying 'it's my opinion' full stop argument over means...

    You are having a knee jerk rection over something you have never heard...

    Why is the comparison between reviewing a film you have not seen and giving an opinion on a debate you never heard so out there?

    It is like condemning a man for taking his clothes off in public because you heard he did and never checking facts then condeming himbefore learning years later he took his clothes off and left his trunks on , on the beach.


    Context IS important.

    If you want to condemn or chastise Micheal D Higgins for what he said...then at least you owe him the curtesy of listening to he said.


    Unless you do you really have no idea what you are talking about and seem silly.

    I could easily have said right this thread contains the word wanker....i am not reading the thread but i think it is inappropriate....REPORT!

    You have made your opinion pretty worthless to any reasonable debate.

    And yes in order to have informed opinion on Nama you need to have read legislation.

    And an uninformed and uneducated opinion deserves to be rebutted ignorance isthe device by which unenlightened men preserved the unjust social order.

    You are just like Graham....all uninformed uneducated rightous opinion.

    If you are going to give out about Higgins you have a duty to listen to the debate. Otherwise admit you don't know enough to pass judgement.


  • #29
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭Amerika


    I watched the shorter version, and figure it is a highlighted look at his views. In my opinion: As a member of the Tea Party, I found his rant of righteous indignation rather entertaining. It truly represents the misinformed view of the Tea Party from those on the outside looking in.

    Sorry to burst some bubbles, but most here have no wishes to go down the path of Europe.

    The Tea Party is a grassroots movement who's core principles support a limited federal government, individual freedoms, personal responsibility, free markets, an returning political power to the states and the people. We are not a political party, but rather a group of average people looking to reform all political parties and government back to the core principles of our Founding Fathers.

    Sometimes its good to remember what this 'party', who's actions are responsible for the destruction of American and the potential fall of western civilization, according to some, really looks like.

    uni_tea_rally_080210-thumb-640xauto-477.jpg


  • #30
    karma_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,797 ✭✭✭karma_


    Amerika wrote: »

    uni_tea_rally_080210-thumb-640xauto-477.jpg

    Well done in finding the one photograph of a tea party crowd that has a single Black lady in it.

    That is certainly not the norm. Good effort though.


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  • #31
    Denerick
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,485 ✭✭✭Denerick


    I laughed really loudly when Amerika posted the photo of the tea partiers with a very ostentious African American presence. Uncle Tom's aside, the tea party are an extreme populist group that will bring about the downfall of the American Republic if they ever come to power (Which is quite possible in 2012). America is on a precipice. Its military is overstretched in too many foreign entanglements, its population is in decline relative to the new rising world powers, Its class system looks more like 1910 than 2010, its economy is sclerotic, mostly caused by bad government policy. The wealthy pay too little tax and most government programmes are underfunded. Social security is a timebomb that will only be solved by funding it through general taxation. The healthcare system benefits the insurance companies above all else and its legislature is on sale to the highest bidder. IN SHORT, it bears all the hallmarks of a civilisation in decline, reminiscent of Ancient Greece, Rome, Jerusalem under Herod, and Babylon. These tea partiers will goosestep the Republic right over a cliff.


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