Are Irish building contractors just spoofers?

Tony EH · 23-08-2012 10:09PM #1

Seriously, I'm completely fed up dealing with them. I know people shouldn't paint with broad brushes etc, but my experiences and those of MANY others that I've talked to and heard from have given me the impression (quite valid IMHO) that the vast majority are chancers, liars and out to do the citizen regardless.

Irish builders have an appalling reputation at home and their rep abroad is in tatters too recently, so I understand. Their name in Ireland is so bad that people were praising the Polish contractors that flooded the country during the boom and by and large were sorry to see them go back home. They were often cheaper and did a better standard of work.

But, it's the propensity for the Irish contractor to overcharge and pull fast ones on the domestic customer that I am interested in. At the moment I am having to deal with several contractors in my home and EVERY ONE of them have been full of crap and each of their quotes have fluctuated WILDLY? One guy said he was expecting me to "barter" with him when I said his price was too high and he wasn't getting the job!

WTF? :rolleyes:

I told him he should have given me a realistic price in the first place and not wasted my time.

Another joker wanted 75% of the cost before the job started! :eek:

So, what do Boardsies think on this? Tell us your stories...

Mr Benevolent · 23-08-2012 10:11PM

Yes.

galwayrush · 23-08-2012 10:14PM

Everyone needs deposits now days, can't work without them. Banks don't help anymore and materials and staff need to be paid.

El Weirdo · 23-08-2012 10:14PM

Thinly-veiled "I'm building a house" thread.

policarp · 23-08-2012 10:14PM

The legal profession, the medical profession, politicians etc. etc. etc. . .

staker · 23-08-2012 10:16PM

IBT "thinly veiled" reply..

mikemac1 · 23-08-2012 10:18PM

I see a lot of jobs going to Northern Ireland contractors.

I don't know how it works tax wise but they are doing well so I'd say they are cheaper
The roadworks around here were a NI company when the council were busy spending their budget last November

Louth County Council do the same

Owen_S · 23-08-2012 10:18PM

Cowboys, Ted. They're a bunch of cowboys.

Pottler · 23-08-2012 10:19PM

staker wrote: »

IBT "thinly veiled" reply..

Well done. Gonna get some Apple shares later?
I'm an Irish building contractor. I never spoof, never lie. You get it dead straight. I'm also dear. Not madly dear, but deffo not cheap. I also pay my taxes, my prsi, my vat, run on white diesel, don't take cash, have insurance, safety statements, method statements, etc etc. My thread would be "You hired me to build you an extension. You never mentioned your drains were laid arseways by the last lad, your electrics were bodged and your last plumber was a chimpansee. Hence, it will be dearer than my original quote. Funnily enough." Oh yeah, and I'm flat out, turning away work, no spare men. TBTG.
I'm even hiring! Fancy that. BTW, I never take a deposit and I have no credit accounts, I hate both. I pay up front for our materials and you pay me when were done. But same as I pay for the materials and wages, by God you better pay for the work. Non-payers are not even coming into the equation, just ain't happening. I'd sooner knock it around your ears and do the time. Literally.

ejmaztec · 23-08-2012 10:19PM

Tony EH wrote: »

Seriously, I'm completely fed up dealing with them. I know people shouldn't paint with broad brushes etc, but my experiences and those of MANY others that I've talked to and heard from have given me the impression (quite valid IMHO) that the vast majority are chancers, liars and out to do the citizen regardless.

Irish builders have an appalling reputation at home and their rep abroad is in tatters too recently, so I understand. Their name in Ireland is so bad that people were praising the Polish contractors that flooded the country during the boom and by and large were sorry to see them go back home. They were often cheaper and did a better standard of work.

But, it's the propensity for the Irish contractor to overcharge and pull fast ones on the domestic customer that I am interested in. At the moment I am having to deal with several contractors in my home and EVERY ONE of them have been full of crap and each of their quotes have fluctuated WILDLY? One guy said he was expecting me to "barter" with him when I said his price was too high and he wasn't getting the job!

WTF? :rolleyes:

I told him he should have given me a realistic price in the first place and not wasted my time.

Another joker wanted 75% of the cost before the job started! :eek:

So, what do Boardsies think on this? Tell us your stories...

That's probably because he can't get any credit at the building supplies company, many of which have taken a hit from builders going down the crapper in the crash, and owing huge sums that they're never going to pay back.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 23-08-2012 10:24PM

Tony EH wrote: »

Seriously, I'm completely fed up dealing with them. I know people shouldn't paint with broad brushes etc, but my experiences and those of MANY others that I've talked to and heard from have given me the impression (quite valid IMHO) that the vast majority are chancers, liars and out to do the citizen regardless.

Irish builders have an appalling reputation at home and their rep abroad is in tatters too recently, so I understand. Their name in Ireland is so bad that people were praising the Polish contractors that flooded the country during the boom and by and large were sorry to see them go back home. They were often cheaper and did a better standard of work.

But, it's the propensity for the Irish contractor to overcharge and pull fast ones on the domestic customer that I am interested in. At the moment I am having to deal with several contractors in my home and EVERY ONE of them have been full of crap and each of their quotes have fluctuated WILDLY? One guy said he was expecting me to "barter" with him when I said his price was too high and he wasn't getting the job!

WTF? :rolleyes:

I told him he should have given me a realistic price in the first place and not wasted my time.

Another joker wanted 75% of the cost before the job started! :eek:

So, what do Boardsies think on this? Tell us your stories...

"Ten for that? You must be mad!"

Thatnastyboy · 23-08-2012 10:28PM

mikemac1 wrote: »

I see a lot of jobs going to Northern Ireland contractors.

I don't know how it works tax wise but they are doing well so I'd say they are cheaper
The roadworks around here were a NI company when the council were busy spending their budget last November

Louth County Council do the same

All government/local authority work goes to EU wide tender,
lowest tender wins the work,
Some NI companies like to go very keen for some projects..

Bear in mind, profit margins are wafer thin or non existent on most projects now with so much competition fighting for so little work, 50%+ of jobs are won below cost according to the society of chartered surveyors.

OP are you talking about small time man&van tradesmen, or actual building contractors?

Pottler · 23-08-2012 10:37PM

Thatnastyboy wrote: »

All government/local authority work goes to EU wide tender,
lowest tender wins the work,
Some NI companies like to go very keen for some projects..

Bear in mind, profit margins are wafer thin or non existent on most projects now with so much competition fighting for so little work, 50%+ of jobs are won below cost according to the society of chartered surveyors.

OP are you talking about small time man&van tradesmen, or actual building contractors?

All true. Many jobs at the moment are not worth bidding on. Men are bidding low just to keep men busy, even if at a loss. Hiding to nothing and I ain't going there, I work for people I know and who know me. Trust both ways. I think harder about taking on a new customer than the customer thinks about hiring me. They think they are hiring me, really, I'm deciding wether they're worth working for. In many many cases, the answer is no. Also OP, if you hire the builder on price, expect crap. I'd be hiring on quality, not price. Price is somthing you look for in Aldi, not the roof over your head. Quality remains long after the price is forgotten. Another Pottler quirk is that I never, ever give a price. You hire me to do the job, I have no honest idea what it will cost. I do it the best, most economical way possible through mutual agreement and ongoing discussion and that = x. You pay me x. I will not con you, don't con me. Funnily enough, I always get repeat business, I have seldom if ever fallen out with a client and I can hand on heart say I have never overcharged anyone. I've also done a fair few big, high profile buildings on the same basis. It is what it is, let's work it out between us.

B.A._Baracus · 23-08-2012 10:44PM

Alot of cowboys out there, op.

keith16 · 23-08-2012 10:53PM

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Alot of cowboys out there, op.

Shure you could talk that into coming down.

ft9 · 23-08-2012 10:57PM

Pottler wrote: »

Well done. Gonna get some Apple shares later?
I'm an Irish building contractor. I never spoof, never lie. You get it dead straight. I'm also dear. Not madly dear, but deffo not cheap. I also pay my taxes, my prsi, my vat, run on white diesel, don't take cash, have insurance, safety statements, method statements, etc etc. My thread would be "You hired me to build you an extension. You never mentioned your drains were laid arseways by the last lad, your electrics were bodged and your last plumber was a chimpansee. Hence, it will be dearer than my original quote. Funnily enough." Oh yeah, and I'm flat out, turning away work, no spare men. TBTG.
I'm even hiring! Fancy that. BTW, I never take a deposit and I have no credit accounts, I hate both. I pay up front for our materials and you pay me when were done. But same as I pay for the materials and wages, by God you better pay for the work. Non-payers are not even coming into the equation, just ain't happening. I'd sooner knock it around your ears and do the time. Literally.

Can I have that job thats going?

girl in the striped socks · 23-08-2012 10:59PM

When I was building my house I priced loads of tradesmen to do whatever job was coming up next.
I got crazy quotes off some guys who were relatively new to their trade & weren't that good. Surprisingly enough the "real" tradesmen priced the job properly, didn't rob me & did great work. By real tradesmen I mean guys who were at it years & had a name for good, quality work. I just assumed those guys would put in the highest price. I was wrong.
The one thing I found expensive was the furniture. I didn't see any huge difference there compared to prices years ago. As a result there's still a few rooms that are without furniture. But I don't use those rooms so there's no point really.
Shop around op & don't hand over any money until you see results.
Plenty of cowboys out there giving good workers a bad name.

starbelgrade · 23-08-2012 11:00PM

Tony EH wrote: »

I know people shouldn't paint with broad brushes

If you're painting a big wall, a broad brush is better than a small one.

Pottler · 23-08-2012 11:05PM

starbelgrade wrote: »

If you're painting a big wall, a broad brush is better than a small one.

Sprayer is the way to go.

Pottler · 23-08-2012 11:12PM

ft9 wrote: »

Can I have that job thats going?

"That" job? Theres a few. Good mig welders and good carpenters? Apply ahead, we're open for business. Spoofers or chancers? Meet me, we'll chat, reality will prevail. I am always hiring good men. I'm a good man, I know my own kind.:) I'm a workhorse, always was and I always hire workhorses. I hold the record for new hires. Apparently. According to my insurers who know this stuff. Hmm. Another quirk i have is that if you're not happy with the first weeks work, sack us. No hard feelings, hire someone else. Never happened, but it's there. Not ALL contractors are spoofers or conmen. There are people out there who are good. We're also slow. Jasus, that sounds bad. But actually, often slow is good.

starbelgrade · 23-08-2012 11:21PM

Pottler wrote: »

Sprayer is the way to go.

Messy if you have the floors down though.

Pottler · 23-08-2012 11:28PM

starbelgrade wrote: »

Messy if you have the floors down though.

Dropcloths. Also, my painting Foreman did T2 for DAA last. No paint on the floor, guaranteed. Genius tbh. He's actually unreal, no masking tape, no paint daubs. Just skill. Quite easily the best painter in the country. Also a quiet gentleman. I have good men, almost without exception. There is a reason we are very busy, and it is probably not all down to my charm! We don't do much domestic work, unless it's somthing special- it's all big commercial and very few of our clients are anything but razor sharp.

Tony EH · 23-08-2012 11:42PM

Pottler wrote: »

We don't do domestic work, it's all big commercial and very few of our clients are anything but razor sharp.

This is the problem with your input on this thread though.

Businesses are more savvy and have more time to make sure that contractors are doing a good job. They also have a bigger umph behind them to combat builders bullsh*t when it arises.

The average punter hasn't a clue, generally and they are routinely ripped off by the builders they hire to build/fix their homes.

It seems to me that it's no accident that there are SO many stories of dissatisfaction with domestic contractors from people in this country. It's so bad that the majority of people simply do not trust Irish tradesmen in any way and view them with extreme suspicion.

Tony EH · 23-08-2012 11:44PM

El Weirdo wrote: »

Thinly-veiled "I'm building a house" thread.

Eh?

Where's the veil?

I'm fixing up a house.

Your comment is rather pointless.

girl in the striped socks · 23-08-2012 11:47PM

Tony EH wrote: »

Pottler wrote: »

We don't do domestic work, it's all big commercial and very few of our clients are anything but razor sharp.

This is the problem with your input on this thread though.

Businesses are more savvy and have more time to make sure that contractors are doing a good job. They also have a bigger umph behind them to combat builders bullsh*t when it arises.

The average punter hasn't a clue, generally and they are routinely ripped off by the builders they hire to build/fix their homes.

It seems to me that it's no accident that there are SO many stories of dissatisfaction with domestic contractors from people in this country. It's so bad that the majority of people simply do not trust Irish tradesmen in any way and view them with extreme suspicion.

There's so many stories because people want the cheapest price possible even if they are compromising the quality of it.
Even If someone didn't have a clue about construction they could always ask someone who does know what they are talking about to help them pick a decent tradesman. It's not that difficult.

Pottler · 23-08-2012 11:47PM

Tony EH wrote: »

This is the problem with your input on this thread though.

Businesses are more savvy and have more time to make sure that contractors are doing a good job. They also have a bigger umph behind them to combat builders bullsh*t when it arises.

The average punter hasn't a clue, generally and they are routinely ripped off by the builders they hire to build/fix their homes.

It seems to me that it's no accident that there are SO many stories of dissatisfaction with domestic contractors from people in this country. It's so bad that the majority of people simply do not trust Irish tradesmen in any way and view them with extreme suspicion.

Tend to agree, but when I quote realistic going rates to Homeowners, they have a fit and hire someone else. IE, someone crap, who will cut corners, do what I would never allow, gouge on price in the small stuff and take ages to do what we do in a day. We work very very hard, and that costs money, money most homeowners just would not be able to afford. If I quoted you 20K for one day, you'd have a seizure, commercial does not. But they get 20K of work done in that one day. Or often 50k. Which is la la land for domestic, but routine for commercial.

Rayne Wooney · 23-08-2012 11:53PM

El Weirdo wrote: »

Thinly-veiled "I'm building a house" thread.

Thinly-veiled "I want a lot of 'thanks' " comment.

keith16 · 24-08-2012 12:04AM

Tony EH wrote: »

Eh?

Where's the veil?

I'm fixing up a house.

Your comment is rather pointless.

Rather? Let me get my fcuking monocle.

woodoo · 24-08-2012 12:15AM

Very frustrating dealing with builder and tradesmen in that they will never say no out straight, no I can't do that, or i won't be there on monday. They always say yes i'll be there on monday (and just don't turn up), i'll ring you tomorrow about it (and not ring).

GASMANN · 24-08-2012 12:17AM

Tony EH wrote: »

Seriously, I'm completely fed up dealing with them. I know people shouldn't paint with broad brushes etc, but my experiences and those of MANY others that I've talked to and heard from have given me the impression (quite valid IMHO) that the vast majority are chancers, liars and out to do the citizen regardless.

Irish builders have an appalling reputation at home and their rep abroad is in tatters too recently, so I understand. Their name in Ireland is so bad that people were praising the Polish contractors that flooded the country during the boom and by and large were sorry to see them go back home. They were often cheaper and did a better standard of work.

But, it's the propensity for the Irish contractor to overcharge and pull fast ones on the domestic customer that I am interested in. At the moment I am having to deal with several contractors in my home and EVERY ONE of them have been full of crap and each of their quotes have fluctuated WILDLY? One guy said he was expecting me to "barter" with him when I said his price was too high and he wasn't getting the job!

WTF? :rolleyes:

I told him he should have given me a realistic price in the first place and not wasted my time.

Another joker wanted 75% of the cost before the job started! :eek:

So, what do Boardsies think on this? Tell us your stories...

Tony EH wrote: »

This is the problem with your input on this thread though.

Businesses are more savvy and have more time to make sure that contractors are doing a good job. They also have a bigger umph behind them to combat builders bullsh*t when it arises.

The average punter hasn't a clue, generally and they are routinely ripped off by the builders they hire to build/fix their homes.

It seems to me that it's no accident that there are SO many stories of dissatisfaction with domestic contractors from people in this country. It's so bad that the majority of people simply do not trust Irish tradesmen in any way and view them with extreme suspicion.

tony there's another side to it too, i do primarily domestic work to the highest possible standard. the problem with this is it drives the cost of the job up. an example would be in upgrading heating boilers and the the remedial works required to bring the existing system to standard and ensure validity of boiler warranty's. in most cases were talking €400-€1000 of additional work. this isnt optional extra's that im out to sell, its neccessary.
i give written detailed qoutations explaining everything and a before work commences report which the the final product can be gauged against so that the cust. can see the improvements in black and white rather than a verbal bluff. all this is then gaurenteed for up to 5 years, so i have to get it right or it becomes my problem later on. this all takes time and effort before comfirmation of winning the job.
what happens in the majority of cases is the cust. goes straight to the bottom of the page, says "joe bloggs is €500 cheaper, get him".

im tared as a rip off merchant, a few months later when the cheap job fails, joe bloggs is a cowboy and so you form the opinion that irish trades people are a ripp off + cowboys.

thats just one example of one type of job.

vicious circle!

cantdecide · 24-08-2012 12:32AM

Matching like-for-like is ridiculously hard. Most people usually go with the cheapest quote, assuming that they'll have all the time in the world to drag Mr.Cheapo through the Small Claims Court if they don't get satisfaction.

WHY do people assume that building a house is a trivial matter and they're experts at it even thought they've never done it before???

PS, my Dad's above-board, professional and responsible glazing company shut yesterday... he's 60, he's broke, he has no pension and can't claim the dole. He should have been a dodgy contractor.

Are Irish building contractors just spoofers?

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