Liverpool FC Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2012/13

gaelicred · 22-08-2012 03:53AM

This moneyball is really geting on my nerves
FSG will have to splash the cash if they want results
and please no more overpriced british players

Kirby · 22-08-2012 05:42AM

gaelicred wrote: »

This moneyball is really geting on my nerves
FSG will have to splash the cash if they want results
and please no more overpriced british players

This is a myth. Even in their wildest dreams, I highly doubt FSG thought they would make a profit on purchases like Carroll. Similarly Downing and Henderson. Even being optomistic they wouldn't expect to make a sell-on profit. Liverpool haven't been using a moneyball system. They have just been pissing money away.

The key is not how much you spend, it's what you spend it on. Spending it wisely. If you had bought the players say....Newcastle had bought over the last 3 years instead, you would be solidly top 4 adding to the base you already had.

Vicxas · 22-08-2012 07:00AM

Did someone here say that they spent 150 million Dollars on a baseball player?

Why cant they give us 30 Million to buy a striker that will help us crack top 4 and re-coup some of the losses.

Dickerty · 22-08-2012 07:46AM

Vicxas wrote: »

Did someone here say that they spent 150 million Dollars on a baseball player?

Why cant they give us 30 Million to buy a striker that will help us crack top 4 and re-coup some of the losses.

They already did that. 35M, actually.
I can understand their reticence to go it again.

Plus, in our position, having the money to buy someone like Caveni or Llorente or Damiao is all very well, but they are very unlikely to join us. We need to break the top 4 first, then I can see them really opening up the wallet again...

_blank_ · 22-08-2012 08:16AM

Vicxas wrote: »

Did someone here say that they spent 150 million Dollars on a baseball player?

Why cant they give us 30 Million to buy a striker that will help us crack top 4 and re-coup some of the losses.

Because the type of player that Liverpool would have to pay 30m for, is not good enough to do that.

A proper 30m pound striker is not going to want to play for a team who finished outside the CL places, and is playing in the Europe League. If he did, you'd be offering 250k+ per week, to some mercenary who is going to piss off as soon as he realises he's a better player and a club actually in the CL shows a sniff of interest.

What you's actually be getting for your 30m is an overpriced egotist.

Or Andy Carroll.

Dickerty · 22-08-2012 08:26AM

Rodgers has said it - we need to get into the top 4 by playing a different way, not by trying to buy our way in.

I'm generally positive, but if you go back to the Torres window, and us having just signed Suarez - we should have just told Torres he was staying. We had a chance to push through the second half of the season and reach the top 4. We were 9th at the half-way when Kenny took over, and we should have finished 5th only for 2 defeats at the end. If we had hit the top 4 then, whether Torres stayed or not, we could have planned the summer shopping better and attracted a completely different calibre of player - not British players at clubs who were never going to make Europe (Sunderland, Villa, Blackpool...)

Milkers · 22-08-2012 08:30AM

Question for anyone who watched a lot of Swansea last year. We seem to have come to the conclusion pretty quickly that AC doesn't fit Rodger's style/system, can't play all across the front three etc. so can someone tell me how different/versatile/mobile a player Danny Graham is? Did he pretty much play all of Swansea's league games last year?

CL7 · 22-08-2012 08:32AM

Dickerty wrote: »

They already did that. 35M, actually.
I can understand their reticence to go it again.

Whose fault is that though? They appointed Comolli and Dalgleish and let them piss away £100M on mediocre players. Being inexperienced isn't an excuse, they're still largely to blame for what happened.

Dickerty wrote: »

Plus, in our position, having the money to buy someone like Caveni or Llorente or Damiao is all very well, but they are very unlikely to join us. We need to break the top 4 first, then I can see them really opening up the wallet again...

It doesn't need to be one of those three but they need to stump up the money for a proper goalscorer or we've no hope of ever breaking into the top four.

Dickerty · 22-08-2012 08:33AM

So Enrique is injured for the Hearts game, and Gerard, Skrtel, Johnson and Suarez are not travelling.

I suggest a team of -

Reina

Kelly--Carra--Agger--Robinson

Spearing

----Henderson----Shelvey

----Borini--Carroll--Sterling----

_blank_ · 22-08-2012 08:34AM

Dickerty wrote: »

we should have just told Torres he was staying. We had a chance to push through the second half of the season and reach the top 4.

Honest questions here.

Do you think Torres would have been better for Liverpool post Xmas than he was for Chelsea? Do you think he would have been enough to push Liverpool into the Top 4?

He was abysmal for Chelsea, and in my opinion, would have been the same or worse had he been forced to stay at Liverpool where he didn't want to be.

Melion · 22-08-2012 08:38AM

CL7 wrote: »

Whose fault is that though? They appointed Comolli and Dalgleish and let them piss away £100M on mediocre players. Being inexperienced isn't an excuse, they're still largely to blame for what happened.

I'm sorry but bullshít. Commoli and Dalglish are to blame for wasting 100m, not FSG.

Vicxas · 22-08-2012 08:39AM

FSG are quoted as saying the knew fúck all about football when they bought Liverpool, so i think they felt a bit duped when what we bought turned out to be mostly shíte!

CL7 · 22-08-2012 08:46AM

Melion wrote: »

I'm sorry but bullshít. Commoli and Dalglish are to blame for wasting 100m, not FSG.

Commoli and Dalglish are to blame for their roles but they didn't appoint themselves did they? FSG are just as much to blame. Where does the responsibility lie if not with them?

Melion · 22-08-2012 08:47AM

CL7 wrote: »

Commoli and Dalglish are to blame for their roles but they didn't appoint themselves did they? FSG are just as much to blame. Where does the responsibility lie if not with them?

The responsibility for Liverpool effectively wasting 100m lies solely at the feet of Comolli and Dalglish. Nobody else.

_blank_ · 22-08-2012 08:49AM

CL7 wrote: »

Commoli and Dalglish are to blame for their roles but they didn't appoint themselves did they? FSG are just as much to blame. Where does the responsibility lie if not with them?

Are you trying to absolve Dalglish of blame here?

He was the manager who has input into purchases.

Yeah, FSG appointed him and Comolli, so they take some of the blame also.

_blank_ · 22-08-2012 08:50AM

Melion wrote: »

The responsibility for Liverpool effectively wasting 100m lies solely at the feet of Comolli and Dalglish. Nobody else.

That is not quite true, FSG do have to shoulder some of the responsibility for

a. appointing what turned out to be the wrong men
b. sanctioning a spend of 100m when they clearly knew nothing about the gae.

Melion · 22-08-2012 08:52AM

Des wrote: »

That is not quite true, FSG do have to shoulder some of the responsibility for

a. appointing what turned out to be the wrong men
b. sanctioning a spend of 100m when they clearly knew nothing about the gae.

They admitted they knew very little about the game. Appointed 2 people who apparently knew a lot, of course they would trust them.
I'm sorry but I'm not buying it, unless you believe FSG wanted to waste 100m

CL7 · 22-08-2012 08:53AM

Melion wrote: »

The responsibility for Liverpool effectively wasting 100m lies solely at the feet of Comolli and Dalglish. Nobody else.

How can the blame solely lie with Comolli and Dalglish when they were hired by FSG? They didn't get here on their own. Is football different to every other business in the world or was this just a special case?

Melion · 22-08-2012 08:54AM

CL7 wrote: »

How can the blame solely lie with Comolli and Dalglish when they were hired by FSG? They didn't get here on their own. Is football different to every other business in the world or was this just a special case?

They wanted those players. That's bad enough IMO.

Kerrigooney · 22-08-2012 08:54AM

t News /
Jordan: 11-12 made me a man

Jordan Henderson claims a debut season full of highs and lows has helped him 'become a man'.

The 22-year-old arrived at Anfield last summer having learnt his trade with Sunderland from the age of seven.

He did enough during his first campaign to earn a place in England's Euro 2012 squad, but Henderson admits there were difficult moments.

The midfielder feels he grew as a result of these experiences and is aiming to prove it in 2012-13.

"I think there were a lot of positives to be taken out of my first full season," he said.

"Admittedly there were also a lot of ups and downs but I learnt a lot and I became a man in that time.

"I've just got to use all the experience that I gained in that year and hopefully this can be a better year for me.

"Obviously all of us players are disappointed if we haven't played very well or we've got beat but you've just got to go away and stay positive and keep training hard, keep working hard and eventually it will come right for you.

"I look to kick on every season. This season is no different."

The 2011-12 campaign ended on a high for Henderson as he was called into Roy Hodgson's first tournament squad following an injury to Frank Lampard.

He made two substitute appearances as the Three Lions reached the quarter-finals, where they lost on penalties to Italy.

"I was delighted when the call came," he said. "It was a massive experience.

"Being there with these types of players gives you more confidence when you go and play at the highest level.

"It gave me a lot of confidence, so let's hope I can use that and just keep pushing forward."

Pushing forward at Liverpool means impressing new manager Brendan Rodgers, who has already indicated his admiration for Henderson by stating 'this kid can play football'.

That said, earning a place in Liverpool's midfield will be even tougher this year with Lucas Leiva returning from injury and Joe Allen joining the squad roster.

"It is a challenge but there are other great players here as well," said Henderson. "A player like Allen coming in only strengthens the squad and adds extra competition for everybody in training.

"So I think it's a plus. I'll keep working hard and try and fight my way into the team.

"I just need to work hard and try and get into the team first. I need to make sure I train well and that come the weekend, the manager can't leave me out."

.

Source:http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/latest-news/jordan-11-12-made-me-a-man

_blank_ · 22-08-2012 08:56AM

Melion wrote: »

They admitted they knew very little about the game. Appointed 2 people who apparently knew a lot, of course they would trust them.

Which was a mistake on their part. Their fault.

They should never have appointed Dalglish, in my opinion, is was a sop to the fans.

Melion wrote: »

I'm sorry but I'm not buying it, unless you believe FSG wanted to waste 100m

Of course I don't believe that.

You are saying it was mostly Dalglish and Comoli's fault, CL7 is absolving them of blame.

the truth lies in the middle. Hence my posts.

Dickerty · 22-08-2012 08:57AM

Des wrote: »

Honest questions here.

Do you think Torres would have been better for Liverpool post Xmas than he was for Chelsea? Do you think he would have been enough to push Liverpool into the Top 4?

He was abysmal for Chelsea, and in my opinion, would have been the same or worse had he been forced to stay at Liverpool where he didn't want to be.

Yes, I think he would have scored a lot more. As it was, he scored 9 goals in the league with little support in a misfiring team. Kuyt, Babel, N'Gog, Jovanovic as his striking partners. I don't doubt for a minute that he and Suarez would have been very effective together.

Why his initial spell at Chelsea was so poor, who knows - used badly, confidence down, no longer the main man for every attack. But he was in good form when he was sold, if not in good mood...

CL7 · 22-08-2012 08:58AM

Des wrote: »

Are you trying to absolve Dalglish of blame here?

He was the manager who has input into purchases.

Yeah, FSG appointed him and Comolli, so they take some of the blame also.

No not at all. My posting history would show that. FSG hired him though.

Dickerty · 22-08-2012 09:06AM

Des wrote: »

the truth lies in the middle. Hence my posts.

Not quite in the middle. When Kenny said he wanted Carroll to replace Torres, and Comolli told them they could make a profit of £15M on the deal, they probably asked things like "What drop in quality will there be?"

They should have been told that one was possibly the finest No. 9 in the world at the moment, and the other is a player with a lot of potential but limited top flight experience, a slightly questionable personal past (and fondness for a drink), and currently injured.

But instead, Carroll was talked up as the next great English striker. Shearer had talked him up, defenders said about how impossible he was to play against, and he had scored against us already that season.

FSG are entitled to trust professionals in the game - that was their only failing. I can't believe people are giving them a roasting for allowing the money to be spent...

I am pie · 22-08-2012 09:06AM

Seems like a lot of people on here are looking for a quick fix, buying a new striker for tens of millions to get us straight back into the champions league etc.

It isn't going to happen.

I have accepted that the club as it is currently financed and resourced (i.e. playing staff available) is not competitive. We threw 100 million at the problem last year, ineffectively and with limited results. We don't have the financial clout to do this again and it is questionable whether we could attract the calibre of player we need and without being compromised in the transfer market again a la Henderson, Carroll, Downing et al.

Our league position isn't important to me this year. If we want to change we need patience, we need to accept that we must be competitive through the way we educate our young players, that we develop a squad of players capable of playing the way we want Liverpool FC to play.

I can accept the debate that some people think we may not have the right people in place to start building or re-building the foundations and to start moving the club in the same direction efficiently. To expect that we need to throw millions at one or two players and expect the club to be back at the top table is completely ignorant of the position the club is currently in and ignorant of the rebuilding job (players, stadium, finances) which must be completed.

CL7 · 22-08-2012 09:06AM

Des wrote: »

Which was a mistake on their part. Their fault.

They should never have appointed Dalglish, in my opinion, is was a sop to the fans.

Of course I don't believe that.

You are saying it was mostly Dalglish and Comoli's fault, CL7 is absolving them of blame.

the truth lies in the middle. Hence my posts.

How did you come to the conclusion that I was absolving them of blame when you have essentially said the same thing as me?

kingshankly · 22-08-2012 09:11AM

I believe the blame lies with daglish and comoli but in fairness this time last year I was happy with their signings but the didn't work out

gafferino · 22-08-2012 09:24AM

In his first sit-down chat with Liverpoolfc.com, assistant manager Colin Pascoe explains why the club are not appealing Daniel Agger's red card, talks about his relationship with Brendan Rodgers and previews our Europa League campaign.

First of all Colin, a frustrating day at West Brom on Saturday but it could have been so different, couldn't it?

In the first half we played well and created a few chances but it's like anything in football: if you don't take the chances you don't know how it's going to end up. I thought we controlled the first half and played well but then in the second everything that could go wrong did go wrong for us.

Liverpool decided against appealing the Daniel Agger red card - why was that?

It was just a case that we thought if the FA had a look at it then Daniel could get extra matches on top of it rather than just the one, so that's the reason we didn't appeal. It's unfortunate for Daniel, but fair play to him, he's taken it well and we move on.

What are you like to be around after a day like that?

[Laughs] The day after a game like that, not very good to be honest! To the point where I don't talk with the family! It's football and when we lose I'm not very good to be around.

What was the message to the players afterwards?

Everything that could go wrong did, so we just said keep the faith, keep playing the way we are and everything will be fine. The boys have made a great response and worked hard.

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Pascoe on Agger, Europa & Rodgers
Now you have a chance to put things right when you travel to Scotland for the Europa League play off v Hearts - how important is this competition for Liverpool?

It's very important. Every game you put a shirt on for Liverpool FC is very important. There will be a full house up in Scotland and all of the boys are looking forward to it.

Hearts won the Scottish Cup last season and Liverpool is a huge draw for them - how dangerous an opponent does this make them?

Again, it's one of those banana skins and it's a great pull for them to play Liverpool. We are looking forward to it, it's two legs and we are going to be positive and try to win the tie up there, and then bring them back to Anfield for the same again.

Liverpool would have to play 19 games to win this competition - would it be fair to say you'll need to use the entire squad?

Definitely, and that's the way you've got to look at it. With the squad and the players we have got here it's fantastic so you have to rotate the players because you play on a Saturday, then a Thursday and a Sunday, so it's an opportunity for all the players to perform.

It's another big week at Liverpool with European football followed by the visit of the Barclays Premier League champions this Sunday. As a coach do you relish weeks like this?

Definitely, and I'm sure all of the players are the same. One minute you are in the Europa League and the next we will be playing Manchester City, then it's the second leg against Hearts followed by Arsenal, so there are fantastic games and teams who you want to play against. These are games we can't wait for.

Martin Skrtel penned a new deal at Anfield on Monday - how much of a boost is that for everyone at the club?

Massive. He's a great lad and he's a great player for Liverpool. He's a man mountain at the back along with Daniel Agger and they have a great partnership. It was great to see him put pen to paper. He's a great lad and a true professional.

How much are you enjoying life from a personal perspective at Liverpool so far?

It has been immense and everyone has been so helpful and friendly. They want everything to be spot on for us and we are enjoying it.

Have you found somewhere to live?

Yes, I have, but I'm not telling you where! [Laughs] It's a lovely place, the family has moved up with me and the kids are now getting ready to go to college. They have found a college and they are settled and we are looking forward to living in Liverpool. I haven't managed to see that much of the city yet because we have been here, there and everywhere. We have done a lot of travelling with the tour of America and the Europa League, but from what I have seen so far it's a beautiful city.

Let's take you back to 1983 and the day you made your debut for Swansea in front of the Kop at Anfield - what are your abiding memories of that day?

What I can remember is just the noise of all the fans and the singing. It was a great occasion and it was my 18th birthday as well. It was my full league debut and in those days Liverpool were phenomenal. They just passed the ball and kept the ball and I think I just chased the ball for 67 minutes before I got taken off! But it was a great occasion for myself and my family and I remember my hairs standing up with the singing of the fans. It was a fantastic day but unfortunately for myself and Swansea we lost the game.

Liverpool has a great Welsh heritage with legends like Ian Rush and John Toshack who have graced the Kop, so you're in good company...

Tosh was Swansea manager that day I made my debut. Rushie is a true legend of Liverpool FC and a gentleman.

Author: @Shunter77

Vicxas · 22-08-2012 09:29AM

Well look at it this way, when they bought the club they knew nothing about the management or how the english game worked.

When they sacked Hodgson they needed someone quick to re-assure us, the fans, that they were on top of it. So they had a Liverpool legend sitting in Melwood as a Ambassador of football in Dalglish. They stick him in as manager and Comolli as DOF and we have a decent back end of the season.

But then it all unravels last season, the rose tinted glasses wear off and Dalglish's style and football are revealed as out of touch with the modern game. And this is where we are now.

tl;dr Its FSGs fault for not doing their research, and Dalglish and Comolli for trying to soak up the english players in some sort of diabolical scheme.

Vanolder · 22-08-2012 09:30AM

Blame who you want, it doesn't change anything. Rodgers and the team are one game in and the panic button has been hit already! If people thought the problem was going to be resolved over night and we were suddenly going to be playing magical football on way to easily qualifying for CL, that's more a reflection on their deludedness than any failings of the manager and team.

We are at year zero again, It's going to take a season or two to get where the manager wants us to be at. Until then people's aims have to be realistic- Top six is probably where we are at. Not all on here are deluded but the demand for instant gratification/success is a curse and something largely I associate with the younger generation.

Liverpool FC Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2012/13

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