Pussy Riot

17-08-2012 07:58PM

I just love the attempt to not smile every time a newscaster says "Pussy Riot" so the whole episode has been worthwhile IMO.

Biggins · 17-08-2012 08:04PM

RDM_83 again wrote: »

6% had sympathy with the women
51% said they found nothing good about them or felt irritation or hostility
the rest were unable to say or were indifferent

http://www.itv.com/news/update/2012-08-17/russians-irritated-or-indifferent-to-pussy-riot-case/

Considering TV in Russia and whats only allowed to be broadcast that can only be the government view/spin, those numbers if true would not surprise me.

If the Russian people are only mainly given one spinned side of an event, it would come then as not further shock to read that their views might be different from those which might see a larger picture and are aware of other possible additional facts.

Colmustard · 17-08-2012 09:09PM

I am looking at more about this story, it seems that there has been worse human rights abuses in Russia under putin such as human right lawyers and opposition journalists have been murdered. But this seems to have caught the worlds attention. I think it maybe the three young women defendants held with-in the glass cage has all the hallmarks of the old soviet show trials.

But these at least are still alive, the show trial victims of old never made it back to freedom.

Procrastastudy · 17-08-2012 09:17PM

Colmustard wrote: »

I am looking at more about this story, it seems that there has been worse human rights abuses in Russia under putin such as human right lawyers and opposition journalists have been murdered. But this seems to have caught the worlds attention. I think it maybe the three young women defendants held with-in the glass cage has all the hallmarks of the old soviet show trials.

But these at least are still alive, the show trial victims of old never made it back to freedom.

To be fair the glass cages are pretty common - the old Bailey uses something similar.

Colmustard · 17-08-2012 09:21PM

Procrastastudy wrote: »

To be fair the glass cages are pretty common - the old Bailey uses something similar.

They just didn't seem to belong there, I would associate them with mafia or terrorists. But I take your point.

Procrastastudy · 17-08-2012 09:27PM

Colmustard wrote: »

They just didn't seem to belong there, I would associate them with mafia or terrorists. But I take your point.

Dont get me wrong - the thing looked like a farce

jill_valentine · 17-08-2012 09:28PM

Russia is getting scarier and scarier.

Biggins · 17-08-2012 09:30PM

According to The Times (England) tonight, the women will probably serve 14 months in prison. They have already spent five months in detention and, under Russian law, double this amount can be counted against their sentence.

Excerpts:

Tolokonnikova, who has a daughter aged 4, burst into laughter when the judge quoted from a psychologist’s report that concluded she suffered from a personality disorder because of her “active stance on social issues”.

Lawyers for the women said they would appeal against the convictions immediately. Mark Feigin, one of the defence team, said: “Under no circumstances will the girls ask for a pardon [from Putin]. They will not beg and humiliate themselves before such a bastard.”

More than 50 people were arrested outside the court as anger erupted among the crowd, who chanted “Free Pussy Riot” and “Putin is a thief”.
Among those detained were Sergei Udaltsov, the Left Front activist, and Garry Kasparov, the former chess champion and Kremlin critic. Police repeatedly plunged into the crowds to drag away anyone who held up a placard in support of the accused.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/europe/article3511837.ece

twogunkid · 17-08-2012 11:02PM

Biggins wrote: »

According to The Times (England) tonight, the women will probably serve 14 months in prison. They have already spent five months in detention and, under Russian law, double this amount can be counted against their sentence.
Excerpts:

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/europe/article3511837.ece[/Q

Would concerned readers consider a mailing campaign to Mary Robinson, Michael D Higgins , Maty Lou , and all the regular do gooders deemed relevant

Also petition Enda to make these right thinking girls free women of Dublin

GULAG is still alive

Toby Take a Bow · 17-08-2012 11:56PM

RedRightHand wrote: »

The Russians aren't too keen on 'equality'. They tried it once when it was called communism.

Support for the communists doubled in the last election. Granted it's only at 20% support, but it's growing, and this is despite people still being around who would've witnessed the effects of Stalin as well as what is essentially a one-party state who will do everything in its power to crush the opposition.

zom · 18-08-2012 01:19PM

jill_valentine wrote: »

Russia is getting scarier and scarier.

They still have plenty of gass, oil, uranium, titanium, gold ets. And the West is playing big game to get their hand on this. That is first and most important conclusion. If we understand this, then we can debate who's guilty and for what.

The Sky · 18-08-2012 01:20PM

What they done is clearly shocking and offensive.

Colmustard · 18-08-2012 01:29PM

The Sky wrote: »

What they done is clearly shocking and offensive.

I agree but 2 years in a Russian jail, I gave the example of when the Sex Pistols hired a boat on the thames and sang their version of God Save the Queen during the main Jubilee celebrations. That was outrageous and very offensive, but I think they just got a night in the slammer and a fine. I can't remember the full details but they didn't go to prison and rightly so.

Biggins · 18-08-2012 01:38PM

The Sky wrote: »

What they done is clearly shocking and offensive.

It might be rightly considered shocking and offensive but its not "Religious Hatred" as such.
Again, they had not spoke or protested out against religion or a advocated that it might be even a load of bukum - they were protesting against the political interjection of Putin and co into the practise of ones religion, for their own means.
...But then one would actually have to look at the very real facts to see that!

gothictwilight · 18-08-2012 01:48PM

The Sky wrote: »

What they done is clearly shocking and offensive.

This is only shocking or offensive if you are a Putin supporter.

zom · 18-08-2012 01:52PM

Biggins wrote: »

they were protesting against the political interjection of Putin and co into the practise of ones religion, for their own means.

It's pretty obvious that it's all about politics. But to find deeper conclusion is much harder. Do you expect Russia to legalise such vandalism? Sentencing girl for "night in the slammer" will end up hundreds of such "riots" in the future and growing mayhem in Russia. There is chance that they get on the democratic way but what I afraid most is that they get destabilized and really dangerous.

Ghost Buster · 18-08-2012 01:58PM

zom wrote: »

It's pretty obvious that it's all about politics. But to find deeper conclusion is much harder. Do you expect Russia to legalise such vandalism? Sentencing girl for "night in the slammer" will end up hundreds of such "riots" in the future and growing mayhem in Russia. There is chance that they get on the democratic way but what I afraid most is that they get destabilized and really dangerous.

I didnt see anything getting broken up. Just some dodgy dancing to dodgy music in front of a golden altar. What the issue?

Biggins · 18-08-2012 02:12PM

zom wrote: »

It's pretty obvious that it's all about politics. But to find deeper conclusion is much harder. Do you expect Russia to legalise such vandalism? Sentencing girl for "night in the slammer" will end up hundreds of such "riots" in the future and growing mayhem in Russia. There is chance that they get on the democratic way but what I afraid most is that they get destabilized and really dangerous.

One don't need to look for deeper conclusions as to why they did what they did.
All a person has to do is look at their very words on the day or later statements made.

I'm sure Russia doesn't need to legalise such vandalism - I'm faily sure they have laws for vandalism already.
What vandalism did they do anyway? What did they destroy/damage besides the peace and quiet within a building?

They might have deserved to be slapped with a fine - even a short stay in a cell for their antics - but in sending them down for two years (and lets be honest, they probably would not get sentenced to two hours in a cell here) in order to silence them possibly, is like using a cannonball to kill a fly on a wall.
The Russian government is only exposing the farce that is supposed to be their 'reforms'.

RedRightHand · 18-08-2012 02:20PM

gothictwilight wrote: »

This is only shocking or offensive if you are a Putin supporter.

Despite all the media coverage of it being an 'anti-Putin song' they didn't even mention Putin while in the Cathedral, that was added on the video later. Orthodox Christianity, like Catholicism, puts a lot of emphasis on the holiness of place(it's not quite the same with Protestantism). Allowing people to practice their religion freely means respecting the integrity of their holy places. It's not difficult, a protest outside the church would have avoided all of this.

Biggins · 18-08-2012 02:26PM

RedRightHand wrote: »

...a protest outside the church would have avoided all of this.

It might have - but in hindsight, its easy to say such things.
On the day or before it, we can only assume (given the band might know the layout inside and out), they decided for the option of their protest to be done within, for better reasons known more to themselves.

Ellis Dee · 18-08-2012 02:41PM

I'd have given them twenty years for crimes against music. But then I'd have to try and figure out how long Jedward would get. And if there's that much time left before the universe implodes.;)

OK, I'm just wisecracking. In reality I wouldn't even lock up Jedward.:rolleyes:

The reality is that one of the nastiest dictators on the planet, the diminutive former KGB thug Vladimir Putin, a small man who loves to be seen engaging in macho pursuits like whitewater rafting and bareback horseriding, has now turned the might of his evil empire against three young women who demonstrated for a restoration of the democracy of which Russia has again been deprived. They will now be sent to one of Russia's notorious disease-ridden jails, where it can not at all be ruled out that they will be beaten, sexually molested and raped. I hope you realise that if you find that a pleasing prospect, you ought to have a good look at yourself in the mirror.:rolleyes:

They were perfectly right to make the protest in that cathedral, because the Russian Orthodox Church, and especially its utterly evil, racist, misogynist, homophobic and Islamophobic Patriarch Kirill, has long been working hand-in-glove with Putin and his fellow-goons to control the sheeple and keep democracy at bay. Putin and his fellow-thugs, once totally atheistic KGB operatives, have now become very good at thumping their craws, because it suits them.:)

Russia is indeed a strange country. Every century or so they cast off a foreign invader - the Mongol hordes, Napoleon, Hitler - but for most of the time in between they are shafted crossways by their own local despots - from Ivan the Terrible through Stalin to Putin. The Russian Orthodox Church has nearly always been on the side of those who hold secular power and will do their utmost to keep the sheeple mired in ignorance and superstition so that the metropolitans and higher clergy can enjoy their privileges.;)

I salute those three young women for their courage and hope they survive their incarceration and make it out to freedom. I also wish some of our own young people would be inspired by their courage.:):)

le la rat · 18-08-2012 02:44PM

Its been too long since my last pussy riot much too long

Colmustard · 18-08-2012 02:59PM

Ellis Dee wrote: »

I'd have given them twenty years for crimes against music. But then I'd have to try and figure out how long Jedward would get. And if there's that much time left before the universe implodes.;)

OK, I'm just wisecracking. In reality I wouldn't even lock up Jedward.:rolleyes:

The reality is that one of the nastiest dictators on the planet, the diminutive former KGB thug Vladimir Putin, a small man who loves to be seen engaging in macho pursuits like whitewater rafting and bareback horseriding, has now turned the might of his evil empire against three young women who demonstrated for a restoration of the democracy of which Russia has again been deprived. They will now be sent to one of Russia's notorious disease-ridden jails, where it can not at all be ruled out that they will be beaten, sexually molested and raped. I hope you realise that if you find that a pleasing prospect, you ought to have a good look at yourself in the mirror.:rolleyes:

They were perfectly right to make the protest in that cathedral, because the Russian Orthodox Church, and especially its utterly evil, racist, misogynist, homophobic and Islamophobic Patriarch Kirill, has long been working hand-in-glove with Putin and his fellow-goons to control the sheeple and keep democracy at bay. Putin and his fellow-thugs, once totally atheistic KGB operatives, have now become very good at thumping their craws, because it suits them.:)

Russia is indeed a strange country. Every century or so they cast off a foreign invader - the Mongol hordes, Napoleon, Hitler - but for most of the time in between they are shafted crossways by their own local despots - from Ivan the Terrible through Stalin to Putin. The Russian Orthodox Church has nearly always been on the side of those who hold secular power and will do their utmost to keep the sheeple mired in ignorance and superstition so that the metropolitans and higher clergy can enjoy their privileges.;)

I salute those three young women for their courage and hope they survive their incarceration and make it out to freedom. I also wish some of our own young people would be inspired by their courage.:):)

That is a great post and puts it all in perspective. Russia is indeed a strange country, not quite the occident and not quite the orient. I read that the Orthodox church and Russia and the catholic church and the west had good cordial relations till the Mongolians invaded. At first they called them Tartars because they thought they came from Islamic turkey, they asked the west for help. It never came.

Russia always had it hard assed Tzars even in the communist era the leaders were tzars with another name. As is Putin today. But things are changing.

kunst nugget · 18-08-2012 06:20PM

Sheeple is the ultimate arsehole term, though. I absolutely detest it.

KenSwee · 18-08-2012 07:51PM

Morlar wrote: »

They were just found guilty. I wonder what would happen if they had tried this in Ireland at a mosque or synagogue or other non-christian place of worship.

This

Biggins · 18-08-2012 07:56PM

kunst nugget wrote: »

Sheeple is the ultimate arsehole term, though. I absolutely detest it.

I dislike those that qualify for the term.

kunst nugget · 18-08-2012 08:01PM

Biggins wrote: »

I dislike those that qualify for the term.

Wow, that be deep...

jill_valentine · 18-08-2012 09:55PM

kunst nugget wrote: »

Sheeple is the ultimate arsehole term, though. I absolutely detest it.

Ditto. It doesn't matter how solid somebody's post is otherwise, the second I see that term my gut yells "douchey conspiracy nut!"

Clareboy · 19-08-2012 11:05AM

Pussy Riot desecrated the House of God and they deserve to be jailed for their sacrilegious behaviour. If they wish to protest, they should have protested somewhere else and not in a cathedral.

Benny_Cake · 19-08-2012 11:16AM

Clareboy wrote: »

Pussy Riot desecrated the House of God and they deserve to be jailed for their sacrilegious behaviour. If they wish to protest, they should have protested somewhere else and not in a cathedral.

I'm sorry, but even if it was sacrilegious (and I question that it was - it was fundamentally a protest about a political stance taken by the church leadership), can you not see the heavy-handed cruelty in sending these women to a two year stint in Russia's TB riddled prison system? After several months on remand? I disagree with the method they chose to make their legitimate protest, but this sentence is obscene.

Pussy Riot

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