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Pussy Riot

135

Comments

  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    brimal wrote: »
    They just got their sentence.

    They each got 2 years.

    Disgrace.

    I suspect that they will be out before that.

    Gracious glorious Putin will personally step in and see that they are released early.
    He will do so, to show the world he believes that while they were supposedly wrong, he is a nice man and will let them off light because his new Russia under his leadership is a place of freedom, peace and love for all.

    ...And it will all be true of course!


    The fact (and Putin I suspect, knows it) is that longer they are imprisoned, they are and will remain a rally cry for protesters the world over, including at home.
    They imprisonment will enrage even more.
    The quicker they are released, the less the ire against Putin.

    Don't expect them to serve the two full years.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 816 ✭✭✭dr strangelove


    Two years each, eh?
    So Putin's request that they be treated "not too harshly" translates into two years in jail.
    Nice


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,222 ✭✭✭brimal


    Biggins wrote: »
    I suspect that they will be out before that.

    Gracious glorious Putin will personally step in and see that they are released early.
    He will do so, to show the world he believes that while they were supposedly wrong, he is a nice man and will let them off light because his new Russia under his leadership is a place of freedom, peace and love for all.

    ...And it will all be true of course!


    The fact (and Putin I suspect, knows it) is that longer they are imprisoned, they are and will remain a rally cry for protesters the world over, including at home.
    They imprisonment will enrage even more.
    The quicker they are released, the less the ire against Putin.

    Don't expect them to serve the two full years.

    Well the sentence starts from when they were detained. I think that is about 5 months knocked off the sentence.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Morlar wrote: »
    ...He is not popular with billionaire oligarchs or foreign interests but he's the legitimate Russian choice for President & I have not seen anything that would cause me to to question their choice.

    He was the legal choice, that still don't make him the right thing for Russia - just as we are stuck here at home with a bunch of liars, u-turn artists and they too were elected legally.
    Legally elected does not mean they should not be questioned or why they were selected to such a position, questioned.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    brimal wrote: »
    Well the sentence starts from when they were detained. I think that is about 5 months knocked off the sentence.

    Putin and his government will want them to fade into obscurity as quick as possible.
    The more they are in jail, the more the media spotlight is on Russia and it government antics.

    ...And the more Russia is possible being seen to 'do bad', the more other states will say "Don't you dare lecture to us - look at what what your doing at home yourself!"


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    brimal wrote: »
    They just got their sentence.

    They each got 2 years.

    Disgrace.

    I think the two plain ones should do an extra year each and let the good looking one out now.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar


    Biggins wrote: »
    Putin and his government will want them to fade into obscurity as quick as possible.
    The more they are in jail, the more the media spotlight is on Russia and it government antics.

    ...And the more Russia is possible being seen to 'do bad', the more other states will say "Don't you dare lecture to us - look at what what your doing at home yourself!"

    I think you need to open your eyes a little & also try to remember the absolute rape of that country under the foreign supported oligarchs (whom Putin has managed to stand up to)

    http://rt.com/politics/russia-ngo-usa-funding-101/
    West's battle for Russian ‘hearts and minds’: NGOs on steroids (Op-Ed)

    Published: 13 July, 2012, 13:35
    Edited: 13 July, 2012, 13:35

    The Russian Duma has just passed amendments to the Russian NGO law.

    Russian NGOs receiving foreign funding will now have to register at the Ministry of Justice as an “NGO carrying out functions as a foreign agent”, make public their sources of funding by marking it on the materials they distribute, and report semi-annually to the Ministry of Justice on their activities.

    This law, a great majority of Russians believe, is long overdue. In the past 25 years, billions of dollars have been pouring into Russia from the US State Department and its subsidiary agencies like the US Agency for International Development (USAID – nearly $3 billion alone), as well as from so-called “private foundations” like the National Endowment for Democracy, Freedom House, and George Soros’s Open Society Institute. All of these institutions, judging by their activities and leadership’s biographies, have important ties to the US State Department, the intelligence community, Cold War and the “color revolutions”.

    The goal of all this money was not to express Washington’s generous love of Russia, its culture or its people. In addition to building a loyal infrastructure, it aimed at “winning hearts and minds” – and along the way oil, gas, and military capacity. It has all been about “opening” – “open society”, “open economy”, “open Russia”, “open government” – open for brainwashing, economic plunder, for hijacking Russia’s domestic and foreign policies.

    Conquest by war is always an option for the US, as we have seen in the former Yugoslavia, Iraq, Libya, and now in Syria. But “victory without war” is cheaper and more effective, as the collapse of Soviet Union has tragically shown.

    What did Western funding do to the Russian civil society while pursuing military objectives by “peaceful means”? Might it have accidentally contributed to building democracy in Russia? The word “democracy” here is understood in its original sense, as government of the people for the people, not in Washington’s interpretation as a loyal regime subservient to US interest.

    In fact, the multibillions of Western funding have profoundly distorted Russian civil society. A marginal pro-American group of NGOs that was pumped up with US dollars like a bodybuilder with steroids -it has gained much muscle and shine. Those few Russians willing to serve foreign interests were provided nice offices, comfortable salaries, printing presses, training, publicity, and political and organizing technology which gave them far more capacity, visibility, and influence that they could possibly have had on their own. Money and spin are the only means to promote unpopular ideas, alien to national interests.

    On the other side is the silent majority of people who is squeezed out of the public space. In Western, and also in Russian media, civil society turns out to be represented by Ludmila Alekseyeva (The Helsinki Group), Boris Nemtsov and Gary Kasparov, rather than by a worker from the Urals, teacher from Novosibirsk or a farmer from Krasnodar Region.

    Moreover, Russian NGOs not addicted to Western funding are put under serious pressure from Western funders and their local outlets to join the club. Once the Russian organization shows its effectiveness, its leadership receives a call from US Embassy, and an invitation to visit. Money offers follow shortly. If the Russian NGO dares to refuse the bait, one or several mirror organizations are created that, with massive funding and publicity, hijack the subject, fill it out with its agenda and occupy the field.

    For projects in education, for example, suddenly it will be all Anglo-Saxon models and values. For projects fighting abuse by the police, this fight will be selective and serving to compile incriminatory evidence on loyal officials designed to create hostility to the government in general, rather than truly fighting these intolerable practices. In the field of business associations, one Russian NGO was denounced by a major US-allied corporation for “excessively defending the rights of domestic producers”.

    No, Western funding does not contribute to strengthening Russian democracy. It only extends the battle field for pro-American forces against patriotic forces. Like steroids, Western funding is injected in the weaker spots of the targeted civil society. Like steroids, it is addictive. Like steroids, it corrupts the mind and body of the political organism. It transforms the target nation into a sick and dependent collaborating entity deprived of independent will, mind, and heart.

    Russia and other countries subject to Western funding infusions must take charge of their domestic problems. Building a patriotic civil society cannot be outsourced. Democratic processes and national security cannot be outsourced – all the more so to openly hostile governments.

    These NGO amendments, by correcting an evident gap in our laws, take a major step in leveling the playing field. But this step needs to be followed by further measures that strengthen our national civil societies.

    ­Veronika Krasheninnikova, Director General of the Institute for Foreign Policy Research and Initiatives in Moscow, for RT

    ­The statements, views and opinions expressed in this article are those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of RT.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭Dannyriver


    Ikky Poo2 wrote: »
    I don't remember the rubbe bandits every doing a protest song or challenging anything?
    Perhaps you should look them up, every song they ve ever done is a protest song in one shape or another :confused:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 816 ✭✭✭dr strangelove


    Biggins wrote: »
    Putin and his government will want them to fade into obscurity as quick as possible.
    The more they are in jail, the more the media spotlight is on Russia and it government antics.

    Which, hopefully, will empower others to follow in PussyRiot's footsteps......


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Morlar wrote: »
    I think you need to open your eyes a little & also try to remember the absolute rape of that country under the foreign supported oligarchs (whom Putin has managed to stand up to)

    http://rt.com/politics/russia-ngo-usa-funding-101/

    America and others offered money to Putins country - that cannot be disputed.
    Nor can the reasoning that they were doing it to suit their own agenda.

    However I'm sure the money was accepted by those within Russian borders, fully aware of this - I give the Russian government some credit for not being blind or stupid.
    ...And they accepted the money with whatever reasoning came with it.

    The fact that Putin has been seen by some as standing up to foreign supported oligarchs - an image possibly also pushed by his own people too in order to win over hearts and minds (what politician would not do similar?) - the fact is that, regardless of whom Putin might have stood up to if they were bad, does not automatically make him a saint or good for his country either by default in opposition.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Which, hopefully, will empower others to follow in PussyRiot's footsteps......

    Amen.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 816 ✭✭✭dr strangelove


    CucaFace wrote: »
    That Nadezhda Tolokonnikova is so hot.

    Ooops, just realised this is After Hours:

    Yeah, SHE doesn't need a balaclava.........


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,836 ✭✭✭Colmustard


    Two years each, eh?
    So Putin's request that they be treated "not too harshly" translates into two years in jail.
    Nice

    Knowing Putin he will have them released early and by doing so he will make a PR killing, while sending out the message I am the master here.

    He is truly one of the worlds most dangerous men.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,139 ✭✭✭Red Crow


    They are the rubber bandits duh


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,004 ✭✭✭Cassidy28


    Ooops, just realised this is After Hours:

    Yeah, SHE doesn't need a balaclava.........

    She's got great lips


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar


    Colmustard wrote: »
    Knowing Putin he will have them released early and by doing so he will make a PR killing, while sending out the message I am the master here.

    He is truly one of the worlds most dangerous men.

    Who has spoken out against just about every single act of US-hawk led aggression and interference in 'other countries business' that I can think of in recent years. Has stood up to foreign interference in Georgie/South Ossetia, fought a war against islamists within his own country and in my opinion is just about the only element keeping the USA / EU & Britain even remotely honest & without that counterweight I hate to think where things would be in the world today.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Morlar wrote: »
    Who has spoken out against just about every single act of US-hawk led aggression and interference in 'other countries business' that I can think of in recent years. Has stood up to foreign interference in Georgie/South Ossetia, fought a war against islamists within his own country and in my opinion is just about the only element keeping the USA / EU & Britain even remotely honest & without that counterweight I hate to think where things would be in the world today.

    There is much truth in what you say above - however at home, his actions of possible election stealing, crushing freedoms, political and personal equally allow himself to be open to equal criticism of possible unjust actions and/or having an agenda to more suit his personal needs/survival rather than being just good for the state.
    ...And thats putting it mildly.

    There is no saints on either side.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭RDM_83 again


    I really really hate this sort of PopArt/Spirit of 1968 style protest and to be honest it will probably fade the same way, the movements that made a difference in the long term weren't a bunches of artists and posers (and btw I'm not an old man!), these sort of protests and actions just alienate people and trivialize the important issues. 2 years is a bit harsh but we don;t have to look to far too see justice systems over reacting look at the UK riots (not comparing them just giving an example of judicial over reaction)
    Ooops, just realised this is After Hours:

    Yeah, SHE doesn't need a balaclava.........

    Yes as it is after hours I'l pass on a 'tit bit' ;) I saw in a Guardian article- article seems safe for work btw as the picture isn;t displaying MODS remove this if it breaks the porn linking rule

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/****_for_the_heir_Puppy_Bear!

    censor breaking link (damn CommieFacists) ****=fcuk


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,836 ✭✭✭Colmustard


    This is making headline news worldwide, its the lead story on the BeeB Sky and RTE I think Putin may have shot himself in the foot and started a new era of the Soviet dissidents.

    I do not necessarily agree with what they did, but at the end of the day they are only a fukcen rock band and to what I have seen not even a good one.

    I was watching a doco Punk Britannia (brilliant catch it if you can) the sex pistols and Malcoln Mc Claren hired a boat and sang their version of God save the Queen for the jubilee celebrations which was outrageous, I think all they got was a night in the slammer.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,883 ✭✭✭smokedeels


    The statement from the Judge is the real kicker for me. He has essentially used the fact that the Orthodox Church does not view men and women as equal as a weight AGAINST Pussy Riot.

    "Orthodox Christianity, and Catholic Christianity and other denominations do not agree with feminism and their own values are not inline with feminists" therefore the demonstration constituted "hatred" as it took place inside a cathedral.

    You'd think a justice system would be concerned more equality than protecting organisations who by his admission are against it.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,836 ✭✭✭Colmustard


    smokedeels wrote: »
    The statement from the Judge is the real kicker for me. He has essentially used the fact that the Orthodox Church does not view men and women as equal as a weight AGAINST Pussy Riot.

    "Orthodox Christianity, and Catholic Christianity and other denominations do not agree with feminism and their own values are not inline with feminists" therefore the demonstration constituted "hatred" as it took place inside a cathedral.

    You'd think a justice system would be concerned more equality than protecting organisations who by his admission are against it.

    WOW
    A justice system is more concerned with the rule and word of the law. It is not for a judge to rewrire the law, just enforce the legal tenets.

    So if that is written into russian law, that is the way it is. But he really did not have to send them down for 2 years. A fine and community service would have been sufficient punishment IMO.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,883 ✭✭✭smokedeels


    Colmustard wrote: »
    WOW
    A justice system is more concerned with the rule and word of the law. It is not for a judge to rewrire the law, just enforce the legal tenets.

    So if that is written into russian law, that is the way it is. But he really did not have to send them down for 2 years. A fine and community service would have been sufficient punishment IMO.

    It's the word of the law and its application here that bothers me, not the dude reading it out.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,836 ✭✭✭Colmustard


    I fancy one of those Pussy Riots, well I fancy the 3 of them but one in particular.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,563 ✭✭✭stateofflux


    true punk rock - respect. 3 girls got more balls than almost any other band on the planet


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,637 ✭✭✭Show Time


    Two years will teach them some respect for the law.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 63 ✭✭RedRightHand


    smokedeels wrote: »
    The statement from the Judge is the real kicker for me. He has essentially used the fact that the Orthodox Church does not view men and women as equal as a weight AGAINST Pussy Riot.

    "Orthodox Christianity, and Catholic Christianity and other denominations do not agree with feminism and their own values are not inline with feminists" therefore the demonstration constituted "hatred" as it took place inside a cathedral.

    You'd think a justice system would be concerned more equality than protecting organisations who by his admission are against it.


    The judge is a woman. Google translator refers to her as 'Judge Mary Cheese'. :)

    I presume the prosecution's point was that as feminists they were ridiculing the Church's opposing views. It may be a stretch to call that hatred but there was no other way of sending the hussies down. An Irish style blasphemy law would have given them more options.

    The Russians aren't too keen on 'equality'. They tried it once when it was called communism.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,473 ✭✭✭Wacker The Attacker


    Typical women.

    They never know when to shut up


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,836 ✭✭✭Colmustard


    I wonder what is the position of the Orthodox Church, surely being a modern Christian based church they would not agree with this sentence.

    Why are they allying themselves with an unpopular government. That does not seem sensible.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭RDM_83 again


    Colmustard wrote: »
    I wonder what is the position of the Orthodox Church, surely being a modern Christian based church they would not agree with this sentence.

    Why are they allying themselves with an unpopular government. That does not seem sensible.

    You might be forgiven for thinking its not the case but Putin is pretty popular (just probably not with the 'right' people) even with eroded support in the last year he still has 50% approval and would be set to win election. Also in a poll most of russians found that

    6% had sympathy with the women
    51% said they found nothing good about them or felt irritation or hostility
    the rest were unable to say or were indifferent


    http://www.itv.com/news/update/2012-08-17/russians-irritated-or-indifferent-to-pussy-riot-case/


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 63 ✭✭RedRightHand


    Colmustard wrote: »
    I wonder what is the position of the Orthodox Church, surely being a modern Christian based church they would not agree with this sentence.

    Why are they allying themselves with an unpopular government. That does not seem sensible.

    The ROC has been criticized for not showing forgiveness. They responded that blasphemy against God(as opposed to insulting believers) is so serious that repentance should be clear and unambiguous. They've issued a statement tonight(http://en.rian.ru/russia/20120817/175283026.html) asking the state to show mercy which is the furthest they've moved to looking for a resolution.

    Orthodox Christianity has always been close to nationalism(this is a reason why Catholic Christians can be grateful for the pope being in Rome). The leadership were never going to abandon Putin after he brought stability to the country and increased the acceptance of the Church in public life.


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