Uk Threaten to storm Ecuador Embassy for Assange

20Cent · 16-08-2012 08:00AM #1

So they let Pinochet walk free but are now threatening to storm the Ecuadorian embassy to snatch Julian Assange. This is a bizarre turn of events and shocking the lengths they are willing to go through to get him.

Britain warns Ecuador it could enter embassy to get Assange
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/15/us-wikileaks-assange-ecuador-idUSBRE87E16N20120815

"We want to be very clear, we're not a British colony. The colonial times are over," Ecuadorean Foreign Minister Ricardo Patino said in an angry statement after a meeting with President Rafael Correa

Apparently they have not decided if they are going to grant him asylum yet and will announce the decision today.

Outrageous behavior by the British imo, looking at the treatment of Bradley Manning Assange has every reason to be worried.

Dave! · 16-08-2012 08:20AM

An interesting practical question was raised on Newstalk this morning... If Ecuador do grant him asylum, then how does he get out of the country?

He'll have to get from the embassy to the airport, and I'm sure he's not legally allowed to leave the country anyway. Can they appoint him as some kind of diplomat for the journey?

Fratton Fred · 16-08-2012 08:22AM

Ecuador are deliberately interfering in the legal process of both the UK and Sweden.

Britain is actually threatening to revoke the embassy's privileges, which would allow the police to enter and arrest Assange.

Even if they grant Assange asylum, he has to leave sometime, but why would a government offer asylum to a man charged with rape?

Ecuador need to stfu and stop behaving like some tinpot banana republic.

We're not a colony ffs, what's that all about.

jhegarty · 16-08-2012 08:32AM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

offer asylum to a man charged with rape?

Who is that ?

Because Assange hasn't been charged with anything.

the_syco · 16-08-2012 08:32AM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

We're not a colony ffs, what's that all about.

It may be what it's all about? And they're doing this to drive the point home int he same way a rebellious teenager does something to clarify their independence?

mike65 · 16-08-2012 08:45AM

Dave! wrote: »

An interesting practical question was raised on Newstalk this morning... If Ecuador do grant him asylum, then how does he get out of the country? He'll have to get from the embassy to the airport, and I'm sure he's not legally allowed to leave the country anyway. Can they appoint him as some kind of diplomat for the journey?

Can they stuff him inside a diplomatic bag? Are the contents beyond the host countries legal reach?

speedboatchase · 16-08-2012 08:49AM

jhegarty wrote: »

Who is that ?

Because Assange hasn't been charged with anything.

No but he has a European Arrest Warrant out for his arrest and broke one of the conditions of his bail - a criminal offence. Perhaps he will be charged if he is ever brought to face the accusation in Sweden, though it is ironic that a man who knowingly broke a multitude of laws in his dissemination of Wikileaks data is now clinging from one legal loophole to the next.

20Cent · 16-08-2012 08:57AM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Ecuador are deliberately interfering in the legal process of both the UK and Sweden.

Britain is actually threatening to revoke the embassy's privileges, which would allow the police to enter and arrest Assange.

Even if they grant Assange asylum, he has to leave sometime, but why would a government offer asylum to a man charged with rape?

Ecuador need to stfu and stop behaving like some tinpot banana republic.

We're not a colony ffs, what's that all about.

The rape allegations are not coming from the women involved they have not made complaints its coming from the Swedish Gov. Assange offered to be interviewed in the UK or via video which is the normal procedure but this was rejected. He is concerned about being extradited to the US for Wikileaks if he is sent to Sweden. Thats the real issue here, looking at the treatment of Bradley Manning which amounts to torture the Ecuadorians have every reason to be concerned about his human rights if they don't offer him asylum.

Its the UK that is behaving like a tinpot banana republic the Vienna convention is there for a reason. Ecuador is a soverin nation the British are treating them like one of their colonies or something. Threatening to attack an embassy is outrageous behavior.
Like I said mass murderer Pinochet visited the with no problems. The forces being used to persecute Assange are above and beyond the norm clearly they are after him because of Wikileaks. The US does not have a proper humane legal system he should not be sent there.

jhegarty · 16-08-2012 09:04AM

mike65 wrote: »

Can they stuff him inside a diplomatic bag? Are the contents beyond the host countries legal reach?

I understand* that a embassy car has the same protections as a diplomatic bag.

* My legal options may be 100% based on watching Law And Order

speedboatchase wrote: »

No but he has a European Arrest Warrant out for his arrest and broke one of the conditions of his bail - a criminal offence. Perhaps he will be charged if he is ever brought to face the accusation in Sweden, though it is ironic that a man who knowingly broke a multitude of laws in his dissemination of Wikileaks data is now clinging from one legal loophole to the next.

That's a real chicken and egg argument , he shouldn't get a asylum because he broke his bail conditions by trying to get asylum.

That is like when the police arrest someone for resisting arrest , and don't charge them with anything else.

SocSocPol · 16-08-2012 09:09AM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Ecuador are deliberately interfering in the legal process of both the UK and Sweden.

Britain is actually threatening to revoke the embassy's privileges, which would allow the police to enter and arrest Assange.

Even if they grant Assange asylum, he has to leave sometime, but why would a government offer asylum to a man charged with rape?

Ecuador need to stfu and stop behaving like some tinpot banana republic.

We're not a colony ffs, what's that all about.

Link to evidence that Assange has ever been CHARGED with rape?
As for the legal process in Britain, I would remember the cases of The Guilford 4, Birmingham 6, Maguires etc before putting the British Justice sytem up as some kind of model of fairness and probity.

Fratton Fred · 16-08-2012 09:36AM

20Cent wrote: »

The rape allegations are not coming from the women involved they have not made complaints its coming from the Swedish Gov. Assange offered to be interviewed in the UK or via video which is the normal procedure but this was rejected. He is concerned about being extradited to the US for Wikileaks if he is sent to Sweden. Thats the real issue here, looking at the treatment of Bradley Manning which amounts to torture the Ecuadorians have every reason to be concerned about his human rights if they don't offer him asylum.

Its the UK that is behaving like a tinpot banana republic the Vienna convention is there for a reason. Ecuador is a soverin nation the British are treating them like one of their colonies or something. Threatening to attack an embassy is outrageous behavior.
Like I said mass murderer Pinochet visited the with no problems. The forces being used to persecute Assange are above and beyond the norm clearly they are after him because of Wikileaks. The US does not have a proper humane legal system he should not be sent there.

Threatening to attack? overdramatisation much?

Do you have any evidence that the Swedish will contravene Assange's human rights if/when he is extradited there? remebering of course that Sweden is a fellow member of the EU and therefore has signed up to the ECHR?

On what basis is Ecuador giving asylum to Assange?

To me it seems like Assange has used this cover of "Forces above and beyond" to get away with sexually assault.

SocSocPol wrote: »

Link to evidence that Assange has ever been CHARGED with rape?
As for the legal process in Britain, I would remember the cases of The Guilford 4, Birmingham 6, Maguires etc before putting the British Justice sytem up as some kind of model of fairness and probity.

considering you are splitting hairs, you might want to get your facts straight. Assange isn't on trial in Britain, he is subject to an international arrest warrant. I know in Ireland these things tend to get ignored, but most countries don't.

20Cent · 16-08-2012 09:51AM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Threatening to attack? overdramatisation much?

Thats what the Ecuadorian Foreign Minister described the letter as. He also used the word storm. Whatever the term is if they enter an embassy against the wishes of that country its pretty serious.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Do you have any evidence that the Swedish will contravene Assange's human rights if/when he is extradited there? remebering of course that Sweden is a fellow member of the EU and therefore has signed up to the ECHR?

On what basis is Ecuador giving asylum to Assange?

Human rights he is being politically persecuted.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

To me it seems like Assange has used this cover of "Forces above and beyond" to get away with sexually assault.

What sexual assault the women involved say it was consensual and have not pressed charges.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

considering you are splitting hairs, you might want to get your facts straight. Assange isn't on trial in Britain, he is subject to an international arrest warrant. I know in Ireland these things tend to get ignored, but most countries don't.

Really?
Should we extradite people to countries that torture then? Should Iranian dissidents be extradited back to Iran etc etc etc

Fratton Fred · 16-08-2012 10:02AM

20Cent wrote: »

Thats what the Ecuadorian Foreign Minister described the letter as. He also used the word storm. Whatever the term is if they enter an embassy against the wishes of that country its pretty serious.

The Ecuadorian foreign minister is over dramatising the whole thing to get sympathy. In reality, they have over stepped the mark by harbouring a fugitive.

20Cent wrote: »

Human rights he is being politically persecuted.

is he? by Sweden? you have evidence of this do you?

20Cent wrote: »

What sexual assault the women involved say it was consensual and have not pressed charges.

that is a decisions for Swedeish courts then, not the Ecuador foreign minister and certainly not you.

20Cent wrote: »

Really?
Should we extradite people to countries that torture then? Should Iranian dissidents be extradited back to Iran etc etc etc

Sweden tortures people? does Hungary?

Assange's supporters have made their minds up about this case. his guilt is irrelevant to them, they will support him whatever he has done.

Paedophile priests got away with abusing children in much the same way.

Jonny7 · 16-08-2012 10:02AM

I haven't been following this for awhile, shouldn't Assange be facing the charges? I mean if Strauss-Kahn had absconded to Ecuador wouldn't he be in similar hot water?

getz · 16-08-2012 10:05AM

there is a legal base in the UK,its called the diplomatic and consular premises act 1987,that would allow them to take actions in order to arrest mr asiance in the current premises of the embassy,all embassies in the UK know this as britain has had problems with embassies on british soil before,remember the shooting of a police woman from a embassy window,thats why the law came in.

I am pie · 16-08-2012 10:06AM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

The Ecuadorian foreign minister is over dramatising the whole thing to get sympathy. In reality, they have over stepped the mark by harbouring a fugitive.

is he? by Sweden? you have evidence of this do you?

that is a decisions for Swedeish courts then, not the Ecuador foreign minister and certainly not you.

Sweden tortures people? does Hungary?

Assange's supporters have made their minds up about this case. his guilt is irrelevant to them, they will support him whatever he has done.

Paedophile priests got away with abusing children in much the same way.

You're very keen to tell people where the jurisdiction of law extends to here, but yet a few sentences later are proclaiming him guilty and drawing ridiculous paralells with paedophile priests.

Again, there is no sexual assault charge lodged by the alleged victims. None.

20Cent · 16-08-2012 10:08AM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

The Ecuadorian foreign minister is over dramatising the whole thing to get sympathy. In reality, they have over stepped the mark by harbouring a fugitive.

is he? by Sweden? you have evidence of this do you?

that is a decisions for Swedeish courts then, not the Ecuador foreign minister and certainly not you.

Sweden tortures people? does Hungary?

Assange's supporters have made their minds up about this case. his guilt is irrelevant to them, they will support him whatever he has done.

Paedophile priests got away with abusing children in much the same way.

Its not about Sweden, its the US he's worried about.
Comparing him to a peado now classy.

Tatankbull · 16-08-2012 10:19AM

I wonder if the Ecuadorian government is hoping that by granting him asylum they'll protect themselves against embarrassing wikileaks document releases! Okay, maybe I'm veering too close to conspiracy-land!

But I do wonder how much damage Ecuador is doing to itself in diplomatic terms with Sweden, the UK and the US by getting embroiled with Assange.

SamHarris · 16-08-2012 10:24AM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

On what basis is Ecuador giving asylum to Assange?

On the basis that they cling to the same conspiratorial view of the world as the heavy left of europe. Its a shame there are always enough useful idiots around to forgive/beleive any view/action by a person in the public eye, purely on the basis that they have the "right" politics.

There are so many holes in the "extradite to Sweden and it amounts to putting Assange in Gitmo" line its hard to know where to start.

Firstly, why would the UK be any less inclined to extraidte him to the US than Sweden would? Why should extradition to Sweden should be treated in the same way as a purely theoretical one to the US? Do people presenting this argument really not see the difference, and that the position they are opposed to doesnt actually even exist in reality yet?

Secondly, Assange has not and almost certainly wont be charged with anything in the US. Leaving aside the well established strength of freedom of the press laws in the States you would think CTers/ campaigners for Assange would leave the rabble rabble untill something actually happens in that regard. Untill the US files for suit against him, and then begin the long ardous process of seeking extradition (From wherever he is at that time) it is pure speculation with little or no factual basis other than they dont like the US.

And yes yes, Im aware of the noises made by US politicians, but if you believe that means something legally you are just demonstrating your ignorance on the subect. An ignorance those with a political agenda are too happy to exploite.

Thirdly, Mannings treatment has little or no bearing on Assange or what he could or should expect. Military personel are and always will be subject to differnt rules and regulations than others. Mannings case is built soley around the fact that he was a member of the military. Again those that believe otherwise have little to no knowledge of American jurisprudence.

Fourthly, that people are framing Equador as some kind of champion in this regard really demonstrates how little this has to do with real concern of freedom of speech and how much it has to do with politics.

Finaly, that people would even consider preventing a man being questioned for a crime of this severity, or attack the women that came forward for doing so, purely on the basis that they share political views with Assange really are scrapping the bottom of the moral barrel.

Fratton Fred · 16-08-2012 10:27AM

I am pie wrote: »

You're very keen to tell people where the jurisdiction of law extends to here, but yet a few sentences later are proclaiming him guilty and drawing ridiculous paralells with paedophile priests.

Again, there is no sexual assault charge lodged by the alleged victims. None.

It's not ridiculous. No one would believe what accusers were saying because their support for priests was unwavering. it's the same here. people are ignoring basic legal principles because they believe assange is some sort of demi god.

20Cent wrote: »

Its not about Sweden, its the US he's worried about.
Comparing him to a peado now classy.

what has the US got to do with it? Sweden has applied for Assange to be extradited there is no reason why he shouldn't be.

If these women accept it was consensual sex then I am sure they will stand up in court and say this.

and in my book, a peado and a rapist are on a par. if he wants to clear his name then he should stand up in court.

20Cent · 16-08-2012 10:27AM

Why are the British doing the bidding of a third party?
If he's in the Ecuadorian embassy he's their problem now let the Swedes deal with it.

golden lane · 16-08-2012 10:30AM

the uk should throw all the diplomats out of the country........what has ecuador got that anybody needs......

the law should be obeyed.....or changed..

Fratton Fred · 16-08-2012 10:30AM

20Cent wrote: »

Why are the British doing the bidding of a third party?
If he's in the Ecuadorian embassy he's their problem now let the Swedes deal with it.

Because Britain want him out of the country. there is also the small matter of the Ecuadorians taking the piss.

getz · 16-08-2012 10:34AM

strange isent it,no one knows where ecuador is ,except the human rights groups,now they have a few weeks of world fame,big bad british

20Cent · 16-08-2012 10:36AM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

what has the US got to do with it? Sweden has applied for Assange to be extradited there is no reason why he shouldn't be.

If these women accept it was consensual sex then I am sure they will stand up in court and say this.

and in my book, a peado and a rapist are on a par. if he wants to clear his name then he should stand up in court.

Alleged rapist, have you even seen the charges? No complaint was even made by the women!! Why would he be worried about being extradited to the US from Sweden? well they've done it before. Once in Sweden he's not a citizen there so wouldn't be protected. A US grand jury is looking to charge him with espionage, which has the death penalty.

Fratton Fred · 16-08-2012 10:45AM

20Cent wrote: »

Alleged rapist, have you even seen the charges? No complaint was even made by the women!! Why would he be worried about being extradited to the US from Sweden? well they've done it before. Once in Sweden he's not a citizen there so wouldn't be protected. A US grand jury is looking to charge him with espionage, which has the death penalty.

so why don't the US try and extradite him from the UK?

20Cent · 16-08-2012 10:49AM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

so why don't the US try and extradite him from the UK?

The UK have tougher extradition laws. See Gary McKinnon case. The UK can stand up to the US more than Sweden and most of all Sweden have already complied with similar requests from the US.

Fratton Fred · 16-08-2012 10:53AM

20Cent wrote: »

The UK have tougher extradition laws. See Gary McKinnon case. The UK can stand up to the US more than Sweden and most of all Sweden have already complied with similar requests from the US.

that makes a change, the UK is usually accused of being the US's lacky and doing whatever they want.

I suppose the story has to change to suit the circumstances.

A Primal Nut · 16-08-2012 10:57AM

20Cent wrote: »

"We want to be very clear, we're not a British colony. The colonial times are over," Ecuadorean Foreign Minister Ricardo Patino said in an angry statement after a meeting with President Rafael Correa

Patino, Correa and most of Ecuador are descendants of Spanish Colonialists so making fun of Britain for being former colonialists is a bit hypocritical.

20Cent · 16-08-2012 11:02AM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

that makes a change, the UK is usually accused of being the US's lacky and doing whatever they want.

I suppose the story has to change to suit the circumstances.

Look at the example I gave you Gary McKinnon an alleged hacker the US wants they have been trying to extradite him for years but the UK laws are stronger they can't do it. Sweden on the other hand rarely refuse to extradite. Not a story its fact.

Fratton Fred · 16-08-2012 11:12AM

20Cent wrote: »

Look at the example I gave you Gary McKinnon an alleged hacker the US wants they have been trying to extradite him for years but the UK laws are stronger they can't do it. Sweden on the other hand rarely refuse to extradite. Not a story its fact.

youve never heard of Christopher Tappin or Richard O'Dwyer then.

Uk Threaten to storm Ecuador Embassy for Assange

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