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Sinn Fein in a huff over new signs

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Comments

  • #602
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,311 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Seanchai wrote: »
    hehe. Touché. Game, set and match to the Irish. I do wish all the British nationalists here would brush up on their command of the Queen's English. Quite disappointing.

    You do love namechecking your monarch, don't you?

    I don't see the Ford Motor Company enacting law to ensure the official terminology for their car is 'cool'. Aside from that - yeah - it's exactly the same. :D
    The Republic of Ireland Act, 1948

    An Act to repeal the Executive Authority (External Relations) Act, 1936, to declare that the description of the State shall be the Republic of Ireland, and to enable the President to exercise the executive power or any executive function of the state in or in connection with its external relations.
    (21 December 1948)


  • #603
    Seanchai
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,401 ✭✭✭Seanchai


    Fenian Army wrote: »
    You are a "southern unionist" who,by his own admission, would have fought against those who brought some semblance of freedom to Ireland.

    This. And when it comes to the matter of Ireland's sovereignty, and the sovereignty of the people of Ireland, never let us forget what Lord Sutch/Camelot really stands for in this website.

    Britain's "Poppy Day" should be along shortly. We can expect his usual glorification of the British Empire once again, and denigration of the women and men who fought for the freedom of this small country from his beloved British Empire.


  • #604
    TheChizler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,550 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    Ghandee wrote: »
    alastair wrote: »
    Current legislation not sitting well with you? Ah well.

    The current legislation sits perfectly well with me Al.

    I actually mentioned it in my first post of this thread.

    Keep up son.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=80113528&postcount=57
    I think it was quite clear as to what they all meant. That's the advantage of using descriptions.


  • #605
    Seanchai
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,401 ✭✭✭Seanchai


    alastair wrote: »
    Aside from that - yeah - it's exactly the same. :D

    It's not, so please do desist from embarrassing your parents.


  • #606
    Melanoma
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 310 ✭✭Melanoma


    both sides here are just competing to see which one can yap the most about their own ideas without acknowledging each others opinions are equally valid. Your all so self obsessed your too silly to realise how similar you are. One thing is that I can honestly say I'd not enjoy any of your company. People that rant over others, get off on who they are and not what they achieve and do.


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  • #607
    Genghis Khan.
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 53 ✭✭Genghis Khan.


    Cú Giobach wrote: »
    There is a big difference in supporting partition and giving a concession that the status of NI is in the hands of its people in order to help facilitate peace.
    You seem to be confusing "accepting" and "supporting". You can accept a political situation without supporting it.

    Spoken to him recently have you? :rolleyes:
    You are recognising Northern Ireland because you voted for an agreement which says so. The Republican point of view of genuine Republicans is the complete opposite.

    James Connelly was a Socialist, he said it doesn't matter if you get rid of England and put a Tri colour up because the English will still rule you in other ways. And you think Connelly would have voted for the GFA? Don't be so insulting to him.

    I can't stand cherry picking Republicans who pick and choose what they want to believe in. You aren't a real Republican.


  • #608
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,311 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Seanchai wrote: »
    It's not.

    I'm glad we're in agreement.


  • #609
    Seanchai
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,401 ✭✭✭Seanchai


    Melanoma wrote: »
    both sides here are just competing to see which one can yap the most about their own ideas without acknowledging each others opinions are equally valid.


    I agree entirely. I think all those British loyalist opinions of Alastair, Lord Sutch and the rest are just as valid as the opinions in favour of Irish freedom, except for the minor matter that the former are claiming a right to a sovereign British state in Ireland. The latter are not claiming a right to a sovereign Irish state over in Britain.


  • #610
    flanno_7hi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 199 ✭✭flanno_7hi


    When did owen get back? Must be about 15 now?


  • #611
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,311 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Seanchai wrote: »
    I agree entirely. I think all those British loyalist opinions of Alastair, Lord Sutch and the rest are just as valid as the opinions in favour of Irish freedom, except for the minor matter that the former are claiming a right to a sovereign British state in Ireland. The latter are not claiming a right to a sovereign Irish state over in Britain.

    I think you'll find that my 'British loyalist opinion' is actually a considered reading of the reality of the relationship between the Republic of Ireland, and Northern Ireland as defined by the GFA, and the concurrent legislation enacted in this state at the same time. We all got to vote and wiped the territorial claim from the constitution of this state (the Republic of Ireland) - recognising it's (NI) status within the UK as being legitimate and actual.

    Anything less would be unpatriotic.


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  • #612
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,029 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    Melanoma wrote: »
    both sides here are just competing to see which one can yap the most about their own ideas without acknowledging each others opinions are equally valid.

    If the opinions of the people living in the border counties had been sought on the matter of erecting 'welcome to the UK NI' signs then maybe we wouldn't have this problem.

    Also, condemning everyone in an attempt to appear 'above it all' only makes you look self-righteously smug rather than a being of superior morals.


  • #613
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,069 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Ghandee wrote: »
    The IRA haven't been mentioned on this thread (to my knowledge) too much except by the 'Shinner bashers' which i find odd.

    When in a corner......

    This happens all to often, Nodin throws in the unionist jibe, I respond, then one of his cohorts responds, and rather than escallate the issue I usually say bye, and thats exactly what I am going to do now, bye (for the sake of this thread).

    My contributions are in #290 and #422.


  • #614
    TheChizler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,550 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    If the opinions of the people living in the border counties had been sought on the matter of erecting 'welcome to the UK NI' signs then maybe we wouldn't have this problem.
    Come on now that was never the case. If you're talking about the sentiment behind it then that's speculation.


  • #615
    Cú Giobach
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,772 ✭✭✭Cú Giobach


    Genghis Khan. wrote: »
    You are recognising Northern Ireland because you voted for an agreement which says so. The Republican point of view of genuine Republicans is the complete opposite.
    I voted for the people of the north to decide, you seem to forget that includes the option to re-unify, something that was not there pre 1998.
    So according to you "genuine" republicans have no place joining in the democratic process, interesting.
    James Connelly was a Socialist, he said it doesn't matter if you get rid of England and put a Tri colour up because the English will still rule you in other ways. And you think Connelly would have voted for the GFA? Don't be so insulting to him
    JC being quite an intelligent man would make a decision based on the situation of the day, the attitudes and writings of a man a century ago would have little bearing on how he would feel if he were alive today. Not to be able to see or realise this is very naive indeed.
    I can't stand cherry picking Republicans who pick and choose what they want to believe in. You aren't a real Republican.
    I couldn't give two hoots what narrow minded little pigeon hole you try to put me in, the reality of NI is a little bit complicated and only those without much knowledge of the situation try to make everything black and white, you must think this or you must think that, otherwise you are not one of us or you are one of them.
    Childish in the extreme. :rolleyes:


  • #616
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    LordSutch wrote: »
    This happens all to often, Nodin throws in the unionist jibe,.........

    No, thats not what happened, if you recall. I am glad however, that you regard your political position as a jibe. It shows progress is being made.


  • #617
    Melanoma
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 310 ✭✭Melanoma


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    If the opinions of the people living in the border counties had been sought on the matter of erecting 'welcome to the UK NI' signs then maybe we wouldn't have this problem.

    Also, condemning everyone in an attempt to appear 'above it all' only makes you look self-righteously smug rather than a being of superior morals.

    Well no its all the going on about things around the issue like people splitting hairs on if Ireland and the Republic of Ireland mean the same thing.

    I have stated previously that I feel the time has not come yet for this sign but that in years to come it might not be an issue.

    Going on about historical figures of the past is also not really going to make anyone change their mind. Its just people mouthing off and looking for affirmation from their peers and disagreeing with others.

    I agree talking to locals on both sides would have avoided any problems. ~There is is no point in saying someone should not be offended if they are same way telling someone not to be sad when a family member dies would not work. People are entitled to their opinion and they must be respected that is my point.

    I am not above all no way but I value all sides arguments and I wont put anyone down for them or start going on about stuff that does not address the issue being discussed.

    What I am also saying is some people are going on about people being stupid for saying the signs are needed and others are saying the opposite. The truth is nobody is stupid or wrong.

    The past is not over, not fully but we don't change anyone's mind or win arguments by just bashing others.


  • #618
    Fenian Army
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,483 ✭✭✭Fenian Army


    LordSutch wrote: »
    This happens all to often, Nodin throws in the unionist jibe, I respond, then one of his cohorts responds, and rather than escallate the issue I usually say bye, and thats exactly what I am going to do now, bye (for the sake of this thread).

    My contributions are in #290 and #422.
    I like to think of us as a flying column rather than a cohort.. that term is a bit too imperial for me


  • #619
    Genghis Khan.
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 53 ✭✭Genghis Khan.


    Cú Giobach wrote: »
    I voted for the people of the north to decide, you seem to forget that includes the option to re-unify, something that was not there pre 1998.
    So according to you "genuine" republicans have no place joining in the democratic process, interesting.

    JC being quite an intelligent man would make a decision based on the situation of the day, the attitudes and writings of a man a century ago would have little bearing on how he would feel if he were alive today. Not to be able to see or realise this is very naive indeed.

    I couldn't give two hoots what narrow minded little pigeon hole you try to put me in, the reality of NI is a little bit complicated and only those without much knowledge of the situation try to make everything black and white, you must think this or you must think that, otherwise you are not one of us or you are one of them.
    Childish in the extreme. :rolleyes:
    Yes, you voted by allowing the people of Northern Ireland to decide any future decisions on its constitutional position. That is recognizing Northern Ireland.

    James Connelly would have been the opposite and went on Republican principle. That is the key of this, principle. You obviously don't care for Republican principles and come across as a hypocrite.


  • #620
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Genghis Khan. wrote: »
    Yes, you voted by allowing the people of Northern Ireland to decide any future decisions on its constitutional position. That is recognizing Northern Ireland.

    James Connelly would have been the opposite and went on Republican principle. That is the key of this, principle. You obviously don't care for Republican principles and come across as a hypocrite.

    Who?


  • #621
    Genghis Khan.
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 53 ✭✭Genghis Khan.


    Nodin wrote: »
    Who?
    James Connolly. Spelling mistake.


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  • #622
    SocSocPol
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,043 ✭✭✭SocSocPol


    Seanchai wrote: »
    Stop trolling with chimerical points. I think you'll find that I've quoted the March 2012 edition of Bunreacht na hÉireann not the post-GFA 1998 version. According to it, Ireland, the state, is expressly only part of Ireland the country.

    But nice to see you're so supportive of the Sinn Féin promoted proposal to abandon Articles 2 & 3 back in 1998 in exchange for reducing the British/colonial nature of the Six County statelet.
    Sinn Fein NEVER promoted such an action, probably since they refused to recognise the 1937 constitution or indeed this soverign Republic.
    But don't let that get in the way of your revisionist version of Irish history, typical of so many mis-informed forigeners


  • #623
    lugha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭lugha


    Cú Giobach wrote: »
    Not in the slightest, I never supported the FF government a few years ago for example, but I did accept it because that was the will of the majority of people in a democratic election.
    Your analogy does not quite fit. You personally (I presume?) did not vote for FF so your respect for their mandate cannot be construed to imply that you supported their policies. A better fit would be to cite the Irish electorate who DID support FF led administrations for three elections on the spin and cannot, collectively as an electorate, claim with any credibility that FF did not have their support (not that we are not having a valiant attempt at doing exactly this!)

    The Good Friday Agreement was endorsed by virtually all nationalists which IMO compels them to accept it; in its entirety, warts and all, and not simply pocket the concessions to their side. And if you have trouble with signs or other artefacts that illustrate that this island consists of two states then it is difficult to see how someone can reconcile this with “accepting GFA”.’


  • #624
    Fenian Army
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,483 ✭✭✭Fenian Army


    People seem to think that republicans view the GFA as a final settlement.. hardly. It's a means to an end.

    Besides, the whole thing isnt near to being implemented yet, nor have other agreements surrounding it (Weston Part for example) been implemented in full.


  • #625
    Sound of Silence
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭Sound of Silence


    Melanoma wrote: »
    Its just people mouthing off and looking for affirmation from their peers and disagreeing with others.

    Pretty much the definition of all forum arguments. We're not exactly pioneers here on this thread.


  • #626
    Genghis Khan.
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 53 ✭✭Genghis Khan.


    SocSocPol wrote: »
    Sinn Fein NEVER promoted such an action, probably since they refused to recognise the 1937 constitution or indeed this soverign Republic.
    But don't let that get in the way of your revisionist version of Irish history, typical of so many mis-informed forigeners
    The attempt to rewrite history is shocking on here from Republicans. I am amazed it is allowed to be honest.


  • #627
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,029 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    TheChizler wrote: »
    Come on now that was never the case. If you're talking about the sentiment behind it then that's speculation.

    Oh I think you'll find that's very much the sentiment behind the words. These signs are designed with that exact intention - shit stirring and territorial 'lamp-post urinating' - that's the very reason the people who make up the majority of the population in the border counties were not consulted.

    Antagonising 'the other' seems to be somewhat of a preoccupation for a section of the unionist/loyalist population - this is indicative of a dearth of culture that doesn't involve triumphalism and sectarianism* in my estimation.

    *I associate 'triumphalism' and 'sectarianism' with the word culture very tenuously.


  • #628
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    Genghis Khan. wrote: »
    The attempt to rewrite history is shocking on here from Republicans. I am amazed it is allowed to be honest.

    I'm amazed equally at the amount of re-reg trolls that get tolerated on here.

    Not saying you're one incidentally. Just making a point.


  • #629
    Seanchai
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,401 ✭✭✭Seanchai


    SocSocPol wrote: »
    Sinn Fein NEVER promoted such an action, probably since they refused to recognise the 1937 constitution or indeed this soverign Republic.
    But don't let that get in the way of your revisionist version of Irish history, typical of so many mis-informed forigeners
    Genghis Khan. wrote: »
    The attempt to rewrite history is shocking on here from Republicans. I am amazed it is allowed to be honest.

    Another two. Oh Lordy. If you did even a tiny bit of research before mouthing you'd quickly find that Sinn Féin did indeed promote the amendment of Articles 2 & 3 in 1998 as part of the overall settlement in the GFA.


  • #630
    Icepick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,456 ✭✭✭Icepick


    dogmatic people upset over statements of fact?:eek:


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  • #631
    Genghis Khan.
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 53 ✭✭Genghis Khan.


    Ghandee wrote: »
    I'm amazed equally at the amount of re-reg trolls that get tolerated on here.

    Not saying you're one incidentally. Just making a point.
    I agree with you. Lets hope it calms down.
    Another two. Oh Lordy. If you did even a tiny bit of research before mouthing you'd quickly find that Sinn Féin did indeed promote the amendment of Articles 2 & 3 in 1998 as part of the overall settlement in the GFA.
    I was on more about the historical decisions by some Republicans than just Sinn Fein.


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