Advertisement
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum

Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.
Hi all, please see this major site announcement: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058427594/boards-ie-2026

Sinn Fein in a huff over new signs

1…1718202223…27

Comments

  • #572
    Dionysius2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 342 ✭✭Dionysius2


    IrishAm wrote: »
    Put one up facing the opposite direction saying "Welcome to the Island of Ireland."

    What would be wrong with saying "You are now entering the FREE STATE" ?


  • #573
    lugha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭lugha


    Cú Giobach wrote: »
    Now I can't speak for anyone but myself but I think quite a sizeable number of people did not vote to support partition, but like myself many voted to "give peace a chance".
    I do not support partition but I did vote for the GFA.
    I think you possibly could chance it and elect to speak for them! There is little doubt that the virtually unanimous nationalist support for the GFA was not to support partition. But by so voting, they did implicitly accept it. And it is surely a touch dishonest to indicate via a poll that you accept something but then indicate clearly via word and deed that in fact you do not really accept it at all?

    In any case, I again would say it is largely similar to nationalist demanding bilingual signs. Of course when nationalists do it, they are asserting their identity; when unionists do it they are just looking to stir things up. Personally I think the lot of them are eijits.


  • #574
    Cú Giobach
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,772 ✭✭✭Cú Giobach


    Genghis Khan. wrote: »
    When you voted for the GFA you recognised Northern Ireland. Which is why we have Dissidents because they rejected it based on Republican principle.
    There is a big difference in supporting partition and giving a concession that the status of NI is in the hands of its people in order to help facilitate peace.
    You seem to be confusing "accepting" and "supporting". You can accept a political situation without supporting it.
    If James Connelly was around today, he would call Sinn Fein traitors and anti Socialists.
    Spoken to him recently have you? :rolleyes:


  • #575
    Cú Giobach
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,772 ✭✭✭Cú Giobach


    lugha wrote: »
    There is little doubt that the virtually unanimous nationalist support for the GFA was not to support partition. But by so voting, they did implicitly accept it. And it is surely a touch dishonest to indicate via a poll that you accept something but then indicate clearly via word and deed that in fact you do not really accept it at all?.
    Not in the slightest, I never supported the FF government a few years ago for example, but I did accept it because that was the will of the majority of people in a democratic election.


  • #576
    Sound of Silence
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭Sound of Silence


    awec wrote: »
    There were Visit Northern Ireland advertisement hoardings in Croke Park too the last time I was there.

    If it's good enough for the GAA then it's good enough for the miserable sods in border areas who are "offended" (:pac:) by this.

    I happen to be one of the miserable sods that you mentioned, Awec.

    I don't know if I'm confused here but isn't it the job of local Government to verbalise the complaints of their Community?

    If said Community happen to have expressed that they don't in fact want the signs to be put up, I wouldn't consider it sacrilege for their local Representatives to ya' know do something about it.

    I also wouldn't consider especially abnormal for a Unionist Representative to protest the erection of bilingual signs in sensitive areas.

    Then again, the last time I spoke to you, you happened to be expressing your support for what you described as misunderstood Orange Order marches. Local people who happen to oppose such marches passing through their Community often find themselves hitting their heads against a brick wall.

    It just shows that in Northern Ireland, some people just don't care what a Community thinks.


  • Advertisement
  • #577
    Seanchai
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,401 ✭✭✭Seanchai


    TheChizler wrote: »
    Bear in mind I think most people in the thread would assume we're using the definition of country in the context of a state or nation, or territory of a nation. Not as a landmass or geographical definition. Purely political.

    Would you accept that when people say the Republic of Ireland that they are referring to the south? It's purely to aid clarity.

    No, they wouldn't assume 'country' is 'purely political'. There's a name for a landmass which is 'purely political'. That name is 'state', not country. 'Country' means something more, much more.

    Obviously, the 26-county state is not a nation. The island of Ireland is the nation, and the English/British were quite happy with this situation from 1155 when the English pope, Nicholas Breakspear, granted Ireland (not part of it) to the king of England until December 1920 when the British state overthrew democracy to break up the Irish nation which they had accepted for all the centuries before democracy ran into it in 1918.

    It's contrived to claim that the country of Ireland stopped existing in 1920 when its extent over the entire island no longer suited the British. Now that is a political claim.


  • #578
    TheChizler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,550 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    Seanchai wrote: »
    TheChizler wrote: »
    Bear in mind I think most people in the thread would assume we're using the definition of country in the context of a state or nation, or territory of a nation. Not as a landmass or geographical definition. Purely political.

    Would you accept that when people say the Republic of Ireland that they are referring to the south? It's purely to aid clarity.

    No, they wouldn't assume 'country' is 'purely political'. There's a name for a landmass which is 'purely political'. That name is 'state', not country. 'Country' means something more, much more.

    Obviously, the 26-county state is not a nation. The island of Ireland is the nation, and the English/British were quite happy with this situation from 1155 when the English pope, Nicholas Breakspear, granted Ireland (not part of it) to the king of England until December 1920 when the British state overthrew democracy to break up the Irish nation which they had accepted for all the centuries before democracy ran into it in 1918.

    It's contrived to claim that the country of Ireland stopped existing in 1920 when its extent over the entire island no longer suited the British. Now that is a political claim.
    You know exactly what I mean. You're subbing in your own definitions against commonly accepted and official ones. When I refer to a nation or country I refer to the 26 counties, or 6 counties, not both. Are you saying that the republic of Ireland is not a country in itself?


  • #579
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,747 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Sound of Silence wrote: »
    I happen to be one of the miserable sods that you mentioned, Awec.

    I don't know if I'm confused here but isn't it the job of local Government to verbalise the complaints of their Community?

    If said Community happen to have expressed that they don't in fact want the signs to be put up, I wouldn't consider it sacrilege for their local Representatives to ya' know do something about it.

    I also wouldn't consider especially abnormal for a Unionist Representative to protest the erection of bilingual signs in sensitive areas.

    Then again, the last time I spoke to you, you happened to be expressing your support for what you described as misunderstood Orange Order marches. Local people who happen to oppose such marches passing through their Community often find themselves hitting their heads against a brick wall.

    It just shows that in Northern Ireland, some people just don't care what a Community thinks.
    You are offended by a sign that says "Welcome to Northern Ireland" ? Really?

    What have bilingual signs got to do with this too? The irish language doesn't belong to the nationalist community despite it being politicised by Sinn Fein.

    I never expressed my support for these marches either (definitely not!), I was just throwing a few informed opinions into one of the many ill informed discussions on the subject here.


  • #580
    Seanchai
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,401 ✭✭✭Seanchai


    TheChizler wrote: »
    Are you saying that the republic of Ireland is not a country in itself?

    Of course it's not. And I quote from the preamble of the constitution of Ireland (updated March 2012):

    'And seeking to promote the common good, with
    due observance of Prudence, Justice and Charity, so
    that the dignity and freedom of the individual may be
    assured, true social order attained, the unity of our
    country restored    ....'

    Or Article 4 of the same Constitution: 'The name of the state is ... Ireland'

    Ireland, the country, remains divided. For the moment it is divided into two states.


  • #581
    TheChizler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,550 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    Seanchai wrote: »
    TheChizler wrote: »
    Are you saying that the republic of Ireland is not a country in itself?

    Of course it's not. And I quote from the preamble of the constitution of Ireland (updated March 2012):

    'And seeking to promote the common good, with
    due observance of Prudence, Justice and Charity, so
    that the dignity and freedom of the individual may be
    assured, true social order attained, the unity of our
    country restored    ....'

    Or Article 4 of the same Constitution: 'The name of the state is ... Ireland'

    Ireland, the country, remains divided. For the moment it is divided into two states.
    Ok I'll rephrase, are you saying the republic of Ireland/Ireland/the 32 counties/Eire/the south/the Irish free state is not a country?


  • Advertisement
  • #582
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,311 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Seanchai wrote: »
    Of course it's not. And I quote from the preamble of the constitution of Ireland (updated March 2012):

    'And seeking to promote the common good, with
    due observance of Prudence, Justice and Charity, so
    that the dignity and freedom of the individual may be
    assured, true social order attained, the unity of our
    country restored    ....'

    Or Article 4 of the same Constitution: 'The name of the state is ... Ireland'

    Ireland, the country, remains divided. For the moment it is divided into two states.

    I think you'll find that any claim to include NI in the 'National Territory' of the Republic of Ireland went the way of articles 2 and 3. And we democratically agreed to that in the GFA.


  • #583
    Melanoma
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 310 ✭✭Melanoma


    haulagebasher wrote: »
    Can one not identify oneself as irish and British also? And if not why not? Just like one can consider onself English/Welsh/Scottish and also British.I consider myself irish and British you know. Just becasue I am pro-union does not automatically mean that I am anti-irish - I'm not anti irish at all.As for the signs, SF are just at it again. Ignore them. Only harliner Republicans will be phased by this, no-one else cares really.
    The level of anti-British bile in this country is sickening sometimes. I blame in large part the education system in the south which is totally biased and rams Republican/Nationalist propaganda into kids. Thus it's no surprise there are so many armchair/barstool republicans about. I should know, my primary school headmaster in Tipperary was a pure RA head.

    I am a teacher and I can honestly say that there is not an anti British agenda in schools. There are those that identify with others based on anti-British sentiment and pro-republican but its really not something the vast majority of people including teachers have much time for. Your old teacher is just one person. For example a teacher I know went to England to see the last wedding Charles eldest son. She got a bit of slagging of one or two teachers but nothing much while most people were just interested in hearing from her although they might not have been bothered to watch it themselves (just as many people in the UK did not). In terms of history the war of independence is covered as is the famine etc. These are historical facts about the country but if the Unionist community feel there are aspects not covered accurately or omitted then maybe this something that needs to be addressed. We have a shared history and it should reflect that. Really teachers get dumped on enough without this generalisation.


  • #584
    Fenian Army
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,483 ✭✭✭Fenian Army


    lol, if anything there is an anti republican section 31 style agenda in schools if the nonsense textbook on "Northern Ireland" is anything to go by.


  • #585
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    alastair wrote: »
    I think you'll find that any claim to include NI in the 'National Territory' of the Republic of Ireland went the way of articles 2 and 3. And we democratically agreed to that in the GFA.

    Just read it today did we Al?

    Its funny how you used the statute to back up your claim earlier

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=80126623&postcount=505

    And again here.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=80127126&postcount=519

    And finally here.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=80126623&postcount=505


    Trolling not going well tonight.?


  • #586
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,069 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    The term UK & Ireland is certainly used quite extinsively these days, which leads me to believe that Ireland in this context means the ROI (seeing as the UK includes Northern Ireland), which takes us neatly back to the road signs again, which I think are a sensible idea, especially for tourist information and for all the reasons I have already mentioned in post #290 and #422


  • #587
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,311 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Ghandee wrote: »
    Just read it today did we Al?

    Its funny how you used the statute to back up your claim earlier

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=80126623&postcount=505

    And again here.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=80127126&postcount=519

    And finally here.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=80126623&postcount=505


    Trolling not going well tonight.?

    Current legislation not sitting well with you? Ah well.


  • #588
    Fenian Army
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,483 ✭✭✭Fenian Army


    LordSutch wrote: »
    The term UK & Ireland is certainly used quite extinsively these days, which leads me to believe that Ireland in this context means the ROI (seeing as the UK includes Northern Ireland), which takes us neatly back to the road signs again, which I think are a sensible idea, especially for tourist information and for all the reasons I have already mentioned in post #290 and #422
    We all know you are just desperate to see all of Ireland "in the UK" so spare us your "its sensible and helpful to have the signs" facade.


  • #589
    Sound of Silence
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭Sound of Silence


    awec wrote: »
    You are offended by a sign that says "Welcome to Northern Ireland" ? Really?

    I'm not offended by the signs. I'm offended by the fact that the views of an entire Community are essentially disregarded by posters on this forum.

    One would assume that local issues should be addressed by local people.
    What have bilingual signs got to do with this too? The irish language doesn't belong to the nationalist community despite it being politicised by Sinn Fein.

    You honestly can't see the parallels?

    The very man who proposed the "Welcome to Northern Ireland" signs, Danny Kennedy, also expressed his complete opposition to erecting bilingual signs. The signs that were proposed also happened to be Welcoming signs, but for Villages and Towns, not a Statelet.

    This was despite the fact that a Public consultation found that there was essentially no opposition to the proposal.
    I never expressed my support for these marches either (definitely not!), I was just throwing a few informed opinions into one of the many ill informed discussions on the subject here.

    You're more of an apologist than a supporter.

    If I recall correctly you attributed quite a lot of the violence to Sinn Fein's support of those living on the Garvaghy Road, which you argued made the Parades contentious. This, despite the fact that the same parade had been contentious for at least the last 140 years.

    You said: "Sinn Fein set about a strategy of making marches contentious, and the Orange Order were stupid enough to fall for their little game. The Ardoyne is another one."

    This is why it's important to foster good Community relations. You can't simply ignore a whole group of people and just hope that the problem goes away. There has to be at least some level of communication.


  • #590
    Seanchai
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,401 ✭✭✭Seanchai


    alastair wrote: »
    I think you'll find that any claim to include NI in the 'National Territory' of the Republic of Ireland went the way of articles 2 and 3. And we democratically agreed to that in the GFA.

    Stop trolling with chimerical points. I think you'll find that I've quoted the March 2012 edition of Bunreacht na hÉireann not the post-GFA 1998 version. According to it, Ireland, the state, is expressly only part of Ireland the country.

    But nice to see you're so supportive of the Sinn Féin promoted proposal to abandon Articles 2 & 3 back in 1998 in exchange for reducing the British/colonial nature of the Six County statelet.


  • #591
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    alastair wrote: »
    Current legislation not sitting well with you? Ah well.

    You made the mistake Al.

    You claimed (wrongly) on at least three septate posts, from up on your high horse, that the republic of Ireland was the official name of Ireland.

    Being a supporter and defender of the O.O it didn't surprise me that you didn't look up the constitution before posting your 'facts'.

    When you make a a mistake, their is no shame in admitting it.


  • Advertisement
  • #592
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,069 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Fenian Army wrote: »
    We all know you are just desperate to see all of Ireland "in the UK" so spare us your "its sensible and helpful to have the signs" facade.

    Now that's just silly^ I think no such thing, but I have given my reasons as mentioned above. Suggest you read my posts again #290 and #422 and think how the proposed signage might be of genuine help to visitors to this island.


  • #593
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    LordSutch wrote: »
    Now that's just silly^ I think no such thing, .....

    So you were fibbing about being a southern unionist?


  • #594
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    alastair wrote: »
    Current legislation not sitting well with you? Ah well.

    The current legislation sits perfectly well with me Al.

    I actually mentioned it in my first post of this thread.

    Keep up son.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=80113528&postcount=57


  • #595
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,311 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Ghandee wrote: »
    You made the mistake Al.

    You claimed (wrongly) on at least three septate posts, from up on your high horse, that the republic of Ireland was the official name of Ireland.

    Yeah - it's only the official 'description' of the state - and the term that the Dept of Foreign Affairs - amongst other state bodies are quite happy to use when referencing the state - alongside using 'Northern Ireland' of course.


  • #596
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,311 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Seanchai wrote: »
    Stop trolling with chimerical points. I think you'll find that I've quoted the March 2012 edition of Bunreacht na hÉireann not the post-GFA 1998 version. According to it, Ireland, the state, is expressly only part of Ireland the country.

    As is the Nation - in geographic terms, as defined in the replacement articles 2 & 3.


  • #597
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    :p
    alastair wrote: »
    Yeah - it's only the official 'description' of the state - and one that the Dept of Foreign Affairs - amongst other state bodies are quite happy to use - along with 'Northern Ireland' (as demonstrated).


    So its not the official name of the country? Great, do we can move along.

    Incidentally....

    I described a classic car i seen today as 'cool'

    Its official name was Ford Cortina though.

    Any similarity?


  • #598
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,069 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Nodin wrote: »
    So you were fibbing about being a southern unionist?

    Oh no not at all, but the reality is . . . .

    I guess you too hold fast to your IRA/Republican beliefs.


  • #599
    Fenian Army
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,483 ✭✭✭Fenian Army


    LordSutch wrote: »
    Now that's just silly^ I think no such thing, but I have given my reasons as mentioned above. Suggest you read my posts again #290 and #422 and think how the proposed signage might be of genuine help to visitors to this island.
    Haha, good one.

    Is it necessary to go digging back through your posts?

    You are a "southern unionist" who,by his own admission, would ave fought against those who brought some semblance of freedom to Ireland.


  • #600
    Seanchai
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,401 ✭✭✭Seanchai


    Ghandee wrote: »
    :p


    So its not the official name of the country? Great, do we can move along.

    Incidentally....

    I described a classic car i seen today as 'cool'

    Its official name was Ford Cortina though.

    Any similarity?

    hehe. Touché. Game, set and match to the Irish. I do wish all the British nationalists here would brush up on their command of the Queen's English. Quite disappointing.


  • Advertisement
  • #601
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    LordSutch wrote: »
    Oh no not at all, but the reality is . . . .

    I guess you too hold fast to your IRA/Republican beliefs.

    The IRA haven't been mentioned on this thread (to my knowledge) too much except by the 'Shinner bashers' which i find odd.

    When in a corner......


Advertisement