Sinn Fein in a huff over new signs

Cienciano · 08-08-2012 12:12PM

Seanchai wrote: »

What was your claim? Go back, read it. Now, support it. Your claim: "no one knew the irish name!"

"Someone", by the way, is not the same as "no one".

Ah, and because the locals that live in the actual town knew their towns name means you're right. Brilliant argument there :rolleyes:.
You actually thought I meant "not one person in the world, including the people who erected the signs"? Pedant much?

Anyway, go into a few gaeltacht towns and you'll see black paint underneath the irish only placename/signpost because almost everyone in the world from outside the general area doesn't have a clue what the irish translation is.

Seanchai · 08-08-2012 12:16PM

alastair wrote: »

It's not? What would you imagine they mean by description here then?

Which comes first? 1937 or 1948?

Clearly, the Constitution is superior as legislation has to be constitutional (which explains why we have to have referenda to amend the constitution). The Republic of Ireland Act did not rename the state (declaring the state a republic was a requirement of Seán MacBride's Clann na Poblachta in return for their support for the Fine Gael-led coalition government, 1948-1951).

The 1948 Republic of Ireland Act merely set an official description for the state. The name of the state was unaffected and remains, in English, Ireland.

haulagebasher · 08-08-2012 12:18PM

Cienciano wrote: »

Ah, and because the locals that live in the actual town knew their towns name means you're right. Brilliant argument there :rolleyes:.
You actually thought I meant "not one person in the world, including the people who erected the signs"? Pedant much?

Anyway, go into a few gaeltacht towns and you'll see black paint underneath the irish only placename/signpost because almost everyone in the world from outside the general area doesn't have a clue what the irish translation is.

Same thing in cork city where i live. 75% of the tourist site signs (the brown ones) are in Irish. I mean WTF, a tiny portion of Irsih people speak the language on a daily basis and (for all practical purposes) NO foreign tourist would speak it. Even if there were was a non trivial amount of irish speakers, there would be very very few if any of those who did not speak English also. Conclusion: English signage will reach virtually all the population whether domestic or tourists. Irish signage creates only confusion and hassle. Is it not high time that we finally get over this DeValeraite delusion that Irish is a commonly spoken language necessitating such measures. I often compare Irish language to a brain dead patient - without intensive support it would quickly die but is being artificially kept alive (or just not dead) by artificial means. In this case the life support machine being mandatory education et al. I speak in the context of the larger general poulation - i recognise that there will always be a small core of harliners that will continue to maintain its use, however even such projects are not natural - they are concious efforts.

Seanchai · 08-08-2012 12:19PM

Cienciano wrote: »

You actually thought I meant "not one person in the world, including the people who erected the signs"?

As mad as it sounds, I thought when you said "no one" that you meant, er, "no one". Crazy, eh.

Seanchai · 08-08-2012 12:22PM

haulagebasher wrote: »

75% of the tourist site signs (the brown ones) are in Irish.

Whatever about the "Irsih" people, the fact that you have a chip on your shoulder about bilingual signs in Ireland is cultural fascism at its finest.

Cienciano · 08-08-2012 12:28PM

haulagebasher wrote: »

Same thing in cork city where i live. 75% of the tourist site signs (the brown ones) are in Irish. I mean WTF, a tiny portion of Irsih people speak the language on a daily basis and (for all practical purposes) NO foreign tourist would speak it. Even if there were was a non trivial amount of irish speakers, there would be very very few if any of those who did not speak English also. Conclusion: English signage will reach virtually all the population whether domestic or tourists. Irish signage creates only confusion and hassle.

And the thing is, on maps everything is in english. One town I know, the signposts are all in english, but as you get closer the directional signs change to the irish translation which no one knows.

Seanchai wrote: »

As mad as it sounds, I thought when you said "no one" that you meant, er, "no one". Crazy, eh.

No you didn't, stop trolling.

lugha · 08-08-2012 12:29PM

Fenian Army wrote: »

for fcuk sake, this is fairly simple stuff, the 26 counties is officially called "Ireland" not the republic of Ireland. There is no such country as "The republic of Ireland".

Neither are there such countries (or jurisdiction!) as the “26 counties” or “six counties” but I suspect the usage of those terms don't bother you too much?

And it is rather curious that some are so proper about names and descriptions but favour a more casual approach to adapting the pretty much universal practice of clearly marking the boundaries of distinct jurisdictions?

Of course, the motivation for erecting these signs is probably the same as that which prompts nationalists to demand Irish signage. In both cases, it is hardly practically necessary, but has to with asserting one’s cultural identify / tribal pissing contest (delete according to your sensitivities to matters on going in the North-East of this island)

alastair · 08-08-2012 12:30PM

Seanchai wrote: »

The 1948 Republic of Ireland Act merely set an official description for the state. The name of the state was unaffected and remains, in English, Ireland.

Someone would need to tell the Dept of Foreign Affairs then: http://www.dfa.ie/home/index.aspx?id=80823

haulagebasher · 08-08-2012 12:36PM

Seanchai wrote: »

Whatever about the "Irsih" people, the fact that you have a chip on your shoulder about bilingual signs in Ireland is cultural fascism at its finest.

I have no grudges and as I said before, I am not anti-Irish or anything. I am as Irish as the next fella. I am speaking froma purely practical POV. Also I am not that against bilingual signage - what I am dead against is signs that are only in Irish. So rather than making accusations, perhaps would you comment on my above post and answer this Q - would it or would it not be more practical and less confusing if all signage were in English only or at least bilingual???Now if I was to get all nit-picky, I might even say that Irish only signs were discriminatory against English speakers. I won't go that far though but like so many other things these days I must ask: If the shoe was on the other food, and it were some other language that were omitted in favour of another, there would be uproar from certain quarters. Like so many things, theres one rule for one group and totally different rule for another. A lot of it is only pandering to minorities which these days seems to be somthing of a national tradition.

Seanchai · 08-08-2012 12:39PM

Cienciano wrote: »

No you didn't

Interesting. You can now not only apply your own idiosyncratic meaning to words in the English language but you can tell a poster what they were actually thinking when they followed the general understanding of the same words, i.e. "no one" means nobody.

This just gets more bizarre. Perhaps you should write your own dictionary and give us all a heads up on it beforehand?

Seanchai · 08-08-2012 12:41PM

alastair wrote: »

Someone would need to tell the Dept of Foreign Affairs then: http://www.dfa.ie/home/index.aspx?id=80823

No, they obviously wouldn't. But troll away.

Chuck Stone · 08-08-2012 12:44PM

lugha wrote: »

And it is rather curious that some are so proper about names and descriptions but favour a more casual approach to adapting the pretty much universal practice of clearly marking the boundaries of distinct jurisdictions?

There are few places in the world where boundaries are clearly demarcated in times of peace.

Borders are fleeting fabrications of the minds of men unless they are purposefully constructed with brick or barbed wire.

alastair · 08-08-2012 12:45PM

Seanchai wrote: »

No, they obviously wouldn't. But troll away.

What's that Lassie? The State 'describes' itself as what, the what of what? What's that name again? And what's the other place called - the place up North?

If you are resident in Northern Ireland or the Republic of Ireland, please apply to the Department of Foreign Affairs in Dublin. For information about Irish citizenship in general, please click here.

http://www.dfa.ie/home/index.aspx?id=80823

Cienciano · 08-08-2012 12:45PM

Seanchai wrote: »

Interesting. You can now not only apply your own idiosyncratic meaning to words in the English language but you can tell a poster what they were actually thinking when they followed the general understanding of the same words, i.e. "no one" means nobody.

This just gets more bizarre. Perhaps you should write your own dictionary and give us all a heads up on it beforehand?

This coming from the man who draws his own countries borders to suit himself? :eek:

alastair · 08-08-2012 12:47PM

Seanchai wrote: »

Interesting. You can now not only apply your own idiosyncratic meaning to words in the English language but you can tell a poster what they were actually thinking when they followed the general understanding of the same words, i.e. "no one" means nobody.

This just gets more bizarre. Perhaps you should write your own dictionary and give us all a heads up on it beforehand?

Meanwhile: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2f/Dingle-An_Daingean_graffiti.jpg

Seanchai · 08-08-2012 12:47PM

haulagebasher wrote: »

I have no grudges and as I said before, I am not anti-Irish

Clearly, and obviously, you do. But I won't bite any further. I'm not sure if you remind me of gbee or gigino, both of whom had serious problems expressing themselves in English when it came to their hatred of the Irish language generally and bilingual signs in particular.

MagicSean · 08-08-2012 12:59PM

Fenian Army wrote: »

Magicsean you are obsessed with Sinn Féin arent you?

Anyone with nationalist leanings is automatically a "shinner"?

You must be looking forward to the not far off day when there will be a "shinner" minister for justice

Hopefully that day is a long way off. The day a party who agrees with the murder of Gardaí and police officers takes the position of justice minister will be a sad day.

Seanchai wrote: »

fyp.

My post was grand but I accept that you were out of arguments so had to resort to internet memes.

haulagebasher · 08-08-2012 01:20PM

Seanchai wrote: »

....... I'm not sure if you remind me of gbee or gigino, ..........

Should I be reading anything into that statement? Are there any insinuations there? If there is, I can assure you that they are baseless.To clarify, I am not anti-irish in any way. I am just making observations on how confusing and unncecesary it is to have irish only siagnage. Bilingual, I shall tolerate.Anyway, this thread has gone completely off topic. So here, I think the NI signs should stay. If necessary to ensure their acceptance, I would think a biligual sign would be an acceptable compromise. Such a monolingual/bilingual measure could be implemented based on the wishes of the local community whether they wanted it or not. But as for Irish only signs, that is right out as next to no-one speaks it. What do others think of this compromise arrangment? Bilingual if the locals want it, English only where the locals want it.In the end, I think only the opinions of normal right minded folks should be listened to - the ravings of extremeist hardliners on both sides should be disregarded as they have been responsible for decades of suffering on these islands.

LordSutch · 08-08-2012 01:54PM

Seanchai wrote: »

More ignorance. There is no country named the 'Republic of Ireland'. There never was such a country. For that matter, there was and is no state with that name. Anybody with a basic understanding of the English language and Irish law would know this remedial fact.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Ireland

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/republic-of-ireland/republic-of-ireland-abandoning-religion-faster-than-almost-every-other-country-16195112.html

http://www.fifa.com/associations/association=irl/index.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/republicofireland

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-18421262

http://www.atlanticphilanthropies.org/region/republic-ireland

http://www.uefa.com/womenseuro/teams/team=500064/index.html

The Republic of Ireland, also known as Ireland or Eire, a seperate country from Northern Ireland, which is a Region within the United Kingdom. As a school teacher you should know this, I should also say that you seem to be very angry and antagonistic in your arguments (for a school teacher)!

Cú Giobach · 08-08-2012 01:54PM

haulagebasher wrote: »

Should I be reading anything into that statement? Are there any insinuations there? If there is, I can assure you that they are baseless.To clarify, I am not anti-irish in any way. I am just making observations on how confusing and unncecesary it is to have irish only siagnage. Bilingual, I shall tolerate..

I'll bet you are a hell of a lot more annoyed to see these Irish only signs than you were to see no signs at all, think about it, you might realise something about yourself.

Nodin · 08-08-2012 02:05PM

MagicSean wrote: »

.........

Doesn't take the Sinners long to get insulting when people don't accept their viewpoint does it?

Given your posting history, it would seem you're a bit of a "sinner" in that regard yourself.

Sonics2k · 08-08-2012 02:07PM

Ghandee wrote: »

That's easy for you to say as your location is Dublin.

Some people in the border areas affected obviously are offended by it though.

As previously pointed out, I'd imagine their could be outrage by unionists if signs were erected at Belfast or Derry airports saying 'welcome to the island of Ireland'

Same argument.

And they should also get over it, because it's factually correct.

Bitch and moan about it all you want, Northern Ireland -is- a different country, and it's a bloody waste to get annoyed about a sign that simply states this fact.

It's like being Scottish and complaining about a sign that says 'Welcome to Scotland'. It's still a different bloody country.

Cienciano · 08-08-2012 02:19PM

LordSutch wrote: »

I should also say that you seem to be very angry and antagonistic in your arguments (for a school teacher)!

I noticed this too, I'm very surprised a little irelander would write in that fashon

Il Trap · 08-08-2012 02:35PM

I've only read the first six pages of this thread and the sheer f**king ignorance of an awful lot of posters regarding identity and and the history of the north - I mean the basic facts - is just incredible!

Ireland has just come out of a really dirty 30 year war and the lack of empathy and understanding of the situation demonstrated by some here is simply galling.

Seanchai · 08-08-2012 03:04PM

LordSutch wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Ireland

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/republic-of-ireland/republic-of-ireland-abandoning-religion-faster-than-almost-every-other-country-16195112.html

http://www.fifa.com/associations/association=irl/index.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/republicofireland

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-18421262

http://www.atlanticphilanthropies.org/region/republic-ireland

http://www.uefa.com/womenseuro/teams/team=500064/index.html

None of these support your (rather silly) contention that Ireland is not the sole official and internationally accepted name of the state in the English language. It is, so get over it.

If, despite all evidence, you persist in claiming otherwise you can only be a) obtuse beyond reasoning, or b) trolling.

The Republic of Ireland, also known as Ireland or Eire, a seperate country from Northern Ireland, which is a Region within the United Kingdom. As a school teacher you should know this

Please stop talking unadulterated shíte. Thank you.

Seanchai · 08-08-2012 03:11PM

Cienciano wrote: »

I noticed this too, I'm very surprised a little irelander would write in that fashon

I can't honestly say I'm surprised at either the style or substance of the posts by you, Lord Sutch, Alastair or your fellow anti-Irish travellers in this thread.

The abysmal level of education on a topic you've chosen to contribute to combined with your sheer resistance to indisputable, easily verifiable facts is astounding.

Cienciano · 08-08-2012 03:22PM

Seanchai wrote: »

I can't honestly say I'm surprised at either the style or substance of the posts by you, Lord Sutch, Alastair or your fellow anti-Irish travellers in this thread.

The abysmal level of education on a topic you've chosen to contribute to combined with your sheer resistance to indisputable, easily verifiable facts is astounding.

Maybe you should release an atlas with your own countries marked out the way you think they should be? I reckon it would be a big seller.
Not agreeing with you does not equal anti irish, stop talking shíte. "Ohh, he said we're anti irish, we better agree with him" :rolleyes:

alastair · 08-08-2012 03:22PM

Seanchai wrote: »

I can't honestly say I'm surprised at either the style or substance of the posts by you, Lord Sutch, Alastair or your fellow anti-Irish travellers in this thread.

The abysmal level of education on a topic you've chosen to contribute to combined with your sheer resistance to indisputable, easily verifiable facts is astounding.

Meanwhile - a distance beyond Northern Ireland, in the Republic of Ireland: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2f/Dingle-An_Daingean_graffiti.jpg

LordSutch · 08-08-2012 03:35PM

Cienciano wrote: »

Maybe you should release an atlas with your own countries marked out the way you think they should be? I reckon it would be a big seller.
Not agreeing with you does not equal anti irish, stop talking shíte. "Ohh, he said we're anti irish, we better agree with him" :rolleyes:

Why do you say anti irish? and why are your posts so angry? I am surprised at your tone considering your claims as a teacher in the Edu forum. You dont come across as a very tolerant teacher type of person, that's for sure . . .

Seanchai · 08-08-2012 03:43PM

Good question, Lord Sutch (glad to see you on top of things as always).

Sinn Fein in a huff over new signs

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