Sinn Fein in a huff over new signs

alastair · 08-08-2012 11:37AM

Seanchai wrote: »

I'm absolutely certain, dear alastair, you've been called many things, even though you might be officially named something else.

Now, is your grasp of the Queen's English improving even slightly?

I'm glad you're coming around to acknowledging your monarch at least.

Seanchai · 08-08-2012 11:38AM

alastair wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Dingle-An_Daingean_graffiti.jpg

That by no means supports his claim, which I highlighted and which clearly you haven't read. Try again.

MagicSean · 08-08-2012 11:39AM

Seanchai wrote: »

Your inability to appreciate something as basic as the difference between a political entity and a country is where you're going wrong here. The place currently known as "Northern Ireland" is indeed the former, but it never was and never will be the latter. It is only part of a country, Ireland.

Your ability to accept reality is where you are going wrong. The island of Ireland is a single geographical landmass. At present there is no such thing as the country of Ireland. There is the country called the Republic of ireland and the country called Northern Ireland.

Chuck Stone wrote: »

The creation of the six counties was a grand exercise in gerrymandering.

I'll even link you to a wikipedia page that will explain 'gerrymandering' for you.

Here you go.

No doubt it was a historical practice but are you suggesting that the current assembly, led by a republican, is a result of active gerrymandering?

Seanchai wrote: »

I'm absolutely certain, dear alastair, you've been called many things, even though you might be officially named something else.

Now, is your grasp of the Queen's English improving even slightly?

Doesn't take the Sinners long to get insulting when people don't accept their viewpoint does it?

Seanchai · 08-08-2012 11:39AM

alastair wrote: »

I'm glad you're coming around to acknowledging your monarch at least.

This makes no sense, unsurprisingly.

Ghandee · 08-08-2012 11:39AM

Cienciano wrote: »

If you can't even bear to see the name of the country you live in you should seriously think about moving. Doesn't matter what your passport says, the country is called Norn Iron.

The name of the country i live in is Ireland.

Passport also says I'm Irish too.

Sorry to disappoint you, no internet argument here today.

alastair · 08-08-2012 11:39AM

Seanchai wrote: »

That by no means supports his claim, which I highlighted and which clearly you haven't read. Try again.

No thanks - I'm happy with the evidence of my own eyes. What would you imagine the motivation for this vandalism might be - or the local plebicite to put the english name on the signposts? It's quite the mystery eh?

haulagebasher · 08-08-2012 11:41AM

Seanchai wrote: »

It is called the Occupied Six Counties. And that's being charitable.

Lets get one thing straigh here. Northern Ireland is not occupied or under British Occupation or colonised as some hardline RA heads would have you believe. NI is not part of the UK against it's will - in 1922 the DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED HoC of NI chose to remain part of the UK, a FACT which so many on this island choose to ignore because it conflicts with their wretched dogma.
The nationalist groups could hardly complain that their opinions were ignored when they chose to abstain from parliament.

08-08-2012 11:42AM

alastair wrote: »

Seanchai wrote: »

That by no means supports his claim, which I highlighted and which clearly you haven't read. Try again.

No thanks - I'm happy with the evidence of my own eyes. What would you imagine the motivation for this vandalism might be - or the local plebicite to put the english name on the signposts? It's quite the mystery eh?

Normally successful troll is....

Not so successful.....

alastair · 08-08-2012 11:45AM

haulagebasher wrote: »

Lets get one thing straigh here. Northern Ireland is not "occupied" or under "British Occupation" or "colonised" as some hardline RA heads would have you believe. NI is not part of the UK against it's will - in 1922 the DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED parliament of NI chose to remain part of the UK, a FACT which so many on this island choose to ignore because it conflicts with their wretched dogma.

And we all got to vote on the GFA - which re-asserted that we:

acknowledge that while a substantial section of the people in
Northern Ireland share the legitimate wish of a majority of the people of
the island of Ireland for a united Ireland, the present wish of a majority of
the people of Northern Ireland, freely exercised and legitimate, is to
maintain the Union and, accordingly, that Northern Ireland’s status as part
of the United Kingdom reflects and relies upon that wish; and that it
would be wrong to make any change in the status of Northern Ireland save
with the consent of a majority of its people;

MagicSean · 08-08-2012 11:45AM

haulagebasher wrote: »

Lets get one thing straigh here. Northern Ireland is not "occupied" or under "British Occupation" or "colonised" as some hardline RA heads would have you believe. NI is not part of the UK against it's will - in 1922 the DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED HoC of NI chose to remain part of the UK, a FACT which so many on this island choose to ignore because it conflicts with their wretched dogma.

Sorry I have to stop you there. In no way was any decision made in Northern Ireland before the 1990's democratic to the will of the people of Northern Ireland.

Ghandee · 08-08-2012 11:47AM

MagicSean wrote: »

Sorry I have to stop you there. In no way was any decision made in Northern Ireland before the 1990's democratic to the will of the people of Northern Ireland.

Tbh, i wouldn't have corrected him.

Funnier when a know it all turns into a 'knows sweet fcuk all'.

Chuck Stone · 08-08-2012 11:49AM

MagicSean wrote: »

No doubt it was a historical practice but are you suggesting that the current assembly, led by a republican, is a result of active gerrymandering?

You're missing the point. The six counties is itself a grand exercise in manipulative border drawing.

Gerrymandering certainly took place inside 'Gerrymanderland' yes. Is it still going on today? I'm not entirely sure although I do know that up until recently there was over-crowding in Nationalist housing estates while houses lay empty in estates belonging to the other tradition.

I believe the reasons for this anomaly were more to do with rigid 'peace lines' and security rather than the previous tactic of deliberate frustration by unionists.

Cienciano · 08-08-2012 11:50AM

Seanchai wrote: »

I'll put this down to an inability on your part to understand what you are claiming. Because you will be able to post a reference supporting your (rather silly) claim, won't you?

Answer: Er, no.

Out of interest, why do you think I'm wrong? Is it really outside the realms of belief that someone, say a tourist, won't know the irish translation of a town?

Seanchai · 08-08-2012 11:52AM

MagicSean wrote: »

Your ability to accept reality is where you are going wrong. The island of Ireland is a single geographical landmass. At present there is no such thing as the country of Ireland. There is the country called the Republic of ireland and the country called Northern Ireland.

More ignorance. There is no country named the 'Republic of Ireland'. There never was such a country. For that matter, there was and is no state with that name. Anybody with a basic understanding of the English language and Irish law would know this remedial fact.

The name of the state is Ireland. The name of the island is Ireland. The name of the country is Ireland. If the Orange Order and all the Protestant churches can be named after the country of Ireland, what is your problem?

MagicSean wrote: »

Doesn't take the Sinners long to get insulting when people don't accept their viewpoint does it?

If you're going to engage in this debate at least have the decency to stop accusing people of personal insults when they point out your (repeated) inability to understand the very words and claims you are making. Your (repeated) inability to appreciate nuance is central to the flaws of your argument.

Crann na Beatha · 08-08-2012 11:53AM

This post has been deleted.

Seanchai · 08-08-2012 11:55AM

Cienciano wrote: »

Out of interest, why do you think I'm wrong? Is it really outside the realms of belief that someone, say a tourist, won't know the irish translation of a town?

What was your claim? Go back, read it. Now, support it. Your claim: "no one knew the irish name!"

"Someone", by the way, is not the same as "no one".

Chuck Stone · 08-08-2012 11:55AM

Aquila wrote: »

Was there no consultation with the nationalist community?

Yes. As in - there was no consultation with the Nationalist community.

So much for shared future and all that.

Ghandee · 08-08-2012 11:56AM

Aquila wrote: »

Was there no consultation with the nationalist community?

From the article.

“There was no discussion whatsoever with the people in the communities and people living on the borders are impacted on by partition every day,” he said. ”They need to stop, slow down and talk to people.”

Flanagan said there will be a considerable amount of money spent replacing the signs that have been taken down and this money would be better spent on improving the quality of roads in Northern Ireland.

Seems only discussion was among the DUP and road service.

alastair · 08-08-2012 11:56AM

Seanchai wrote: »

More ignorance. There is no country named the 'Republic of Ireland'. There never was such a country. For that matter, there was and is no state with that name.

THE REPUBLIC OF IRELAND ACT, 1948.

AN ACT TO REPEAL THE EXECUTIVE AUTHORITY (EXTERNAL RELATIONS) ACT, 1936 , TO DECLARE THAT THE DESCRIPTION OF THE STATE SHALL BE THE REPUBLIC OF IRELAND, AND TO ENABLE THE PRESIDENT TO EXERCISE THE EXECUTIVE POWER OR ANY EXECUTIVE FUNCTION OF THE STATE IN OR IN CONNECTION WITH ITS EXTERNAL RELATIONS. [21st December, 1948.]

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1948/en/act/pub/0022/print.html#sec2

haulagebasher · 08-08-2012 11:57AM

^^^ I disagree with that. Nationalists were represented in the parliament and, again, Nationalists and their parties can hardly complain when THEY CHOSE to abstain from sending MPs to westminster. Whats the bloody point of standing for election if you don't take the seat? ???:-(As such they had no say in central government. They can hardly give out about it if they freely chose to throw away their right to vote in government.Such policies are hardly going to get you more votes next time around are they?As regards Nationalists/Catholics vadalising and destroying the signs or other symbols, that behaviour just plays right into the hands of the hardline Loyalists who will use it to further their opinion of Nationalist Catholics as mindless uncivilised savages. Similar to the way the dirty protests were used by Loyalists to portray the protesters as filthy savages becasue it suited them to put it that way.Sometimes, Nationalists are their own worst enemy.

Ghandee · 08-08-2012 12:01PM

alastair wrote: »

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1948/en/act/pub/0022/print.html#sec2

You were pro fiscal treaty Al, and your all for quoting EU laws and tax issues on other threads.

Here, read this.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member_state_of_the_European_Union

Seanchai · 08-08-2012 12:02PM

alastair wrote: »

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1948/en/act/pub/0022/print.html#sec2

Here we go again. "Description" is not synonymous with "name".

Bunreacht na hÉireann (Article 4).

MagicSean · 08-08-2012 12:03PM

Seanchai wrote: »

More ignorance. There is no country named the 'Republic of Ireland'. There never was such a country. For that matter, there was and is no state with that name. Anybody with a basic understanding of the English language and Irish law would know this remedial fact.

The name of the state is Ireland. The name of the island is Ireland. The name of the country is Ireland. If the Orange Order and all the Protestant churches can be named after the country of Ireland, what is your problem?

If you're going to engage in this debate at least have the decency to stop accusing people of personal insults when they point out your (repeated) inability to understand the very words and claims you are making. Your (repeated) inability to appreciate nuance is central to the flaws of your argument.

The island is Ireland and the Nation is Ireland but politically Ireland is divided into the countries of the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland. Exactly what part of it do you not understand or accept? Is it that you have a crisis of identity when you think of political boundaries?

alastair · 08-08-2012 12:04PM

Ghandee wrote: »

You were pro fiscal treaty Al, and your all for quoting EU laws and tax issues on other threads.

Here, read this.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member_state_of_the_European_Union

I didn't realise wikipedia warranted more credibility than our statute books. But if that's your bag: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Ireland

Chuck Stone · 08-08-2012 12:05PM

haulagebasher wrote: »

^^^ I disagree with that. Nationalists were represented in the parliament and, again, Nationalists and their parties can hardly complain when THEY CHOSE to abstain from sending MPs to westminster.

Ideology is a funny thing.

Also, they'd probably figured out that blowing up Canary Wharf and the Manchester CBD would make things... happen quicker.

Remember the RUC were still forcing parades through places like the Garvaghy road and the 'never a Taig about the place' mentality was still alive and well in the minds of many Unionists.

Fenian Army · 08-08-2012 12:07PM

Magicsean you are obsessed with Sinn Féin arent you?

Anyone with nationalist leanings is automatically a "shinner"?

You must be looking forward to the not far off day when there will be a "shinner" minister for justice

alastair · 08-08-2012 12:07PM

Seanchai wrote: »

Here we go again. "Description" is not synonymous with "name".

It's not? What would you imagine they mean by description here then?

THE DESCRIPTION OF THE STATE SHALL BE THE REPUBLIC OF IRELAND

Seanchai wrote: »

Bunreacht na hÉireann (Article 4).

Which comes first? 1937 or 1948?

Seanchai · 08-08-2012 12:08PM

MagicSean wrote: »

The island is Ireland and the Nation is Ireland but politically Ireland is divided into the jurisdictions of the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland.

fyp.

Fenian Army · 08-08-2012 12:10PM

haulagebasher wrote: »

^^^ I disagree with that. Nationalists were represented in the parliament and, again, Nationalists and their parties can hardly complain when THEY CHOSE to abstain from sending MPs to westminster. Whats the bloody point of standing for election if you don't take the seat? ???:-(As such they had no say in central government. They can hardly give out about it if they freely chose to throw away their right to vote in government.Such policies are hardly going to get you more votes next time around are they?As regards Nationalists/Catholics vadalising and destroying the signs or other symbols, that behaviour just plays right into the hands of the hardline Loyalists who will use it to further their opinion of Nationalist Catholics as mindless uncivilised savages. Similar to the way the dirty protests were used by Loyalists to portray the protesters as filthy savages becasue it suited them to put it that way.Sometimes, Nationalists are their own worst enemy.

Oh yeah sure the stoops really represented peoples interests and had a major say in policy when they were in westminster, they stopped all the nonsense. Ditto with Bernadette Devlin McAliskey who wasnt even allowed talk about Bloody Sunday

Fenian Army · 08-08-2012 12:11PM

alastair wrote: »

It's not? What would you imagine they mean by description here then?

Which comes first? 1937 or 1948?

for fcuk sake, this is fairly simple stuff, the 26 counties is officially called "Ireland" not the republic of Ireland. There is no such country as "The republic of Ireland".

Sinn Fein in a huff over new signs

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