Should James Holmes, Colorado Shooter, Get The Death Penalty??

EZ24GET · 31-07-2012 05:11PM

I am not sure that he didn't know right from wrong you can be mentally ill but still stand trial if you are aware of right and wrong. He seems to be playing some odd little games, at least according to the press. The lady who lost her six year old was also 8 months pregnant the trauma to her body and mind caused her to miscarry and lose her unborn child. As of yesterday she did not know her 6 year old was dead. I do not have much sympathy for the killer.
He will not be charged for the loss of another life. I didn't believe in death penalties for years I thought you must be out of your head to kill anyone. If only at the moment, but I have looked into the eyes of some murders and there was no confusion, no lack of understanding, there was a sort of bottled up happiness. Some people are just evil.

Dude111 · 31-07-2012 07:49PM

davet82 wrote:

No.

I read they all had MASKS ON so how could they 100% say it was him??

I dont think they can!!

goat2 · 31-07-2012 07:52PM

starfish90 wrote: »

Ah he's only 24 and obviously is mentally unstable-sure he thinks he's the joker for gods sake!!It would be a crime in itself to celebrate murdering someone who obviously isn't all there-i hope for his family's sake he is declared mentally ill and not given the death penalty.

i agree with you on this, he is very young, also may not be mature, more so that he beleives all that kind of stuff,
i dont know anything about that film,
was there a character on it as joker, and if so, what did the joker do on the film

EZ24GET · 31-07-2012 08:59PM

This was the premier -first showing- no one was wearing masks- just him. He bought a ticket to the show, he left by rear exit, pretending to talk on cell phone so his exiting would just be chalked up to trying to get better reception. He left that door propped open with something he kicked in to wedge the door open just enough to be able to get back in. After releasing bombs of some sort, he began to randomly shoot. When he left he left by that rear exit where his car was still parked. He had removed the camo suit, and the clothes and he told the police who arrested him in the parking lot that his car was booby trapped. So then before they go to his apartment he tells them it is a trap. It is there are all sorts of chemicals and amo rigged to explode if the door is opened. As it turns out there was a set up that just as the show was beginning Extremely loud techno music was arranged to start blasting. The downstairs neighbor went to his place to tell him to turn it down, no one comes to the door. She said she even jiggled the handle and was sure the door was not locked.She said something felt really wrong and she didn't open the door. It took 3 days for bomb squads to get into the apartment. The villain in this movie was Bain not the Joker. The Joker was in the movie before this. The Joker doesn't have red hair, he has green hair and make up. The shooter had sprayed his hair red in the parking lot. He did a lot of planning. This wasn't a case of "oh! I have these guns and I'll just go shoot some one."
He was planning this for some time. The fact that he was hoping to blow up the place he lived as a distraction at one end of the city while he shot up the cinema shows he was clear in thought. I am still awaiting evidence of his mental illness. Hopefully there will be a trial so these things will come out. I think though if his lawyers can make a deal that death penalty will be ruled out he will make a plea. Oh, and in the film the good guys win.

I have a question (hope you will think about it) If you had been in that theater and had a legal handgun in your bag or on your person, would you have shot the shooter? I guess the question is to what lengths would you go to protect yourself and your loved ones?

31-07-2012 09:42PM

Sarah** wrote: »

Let me ask this question so - If James Holmes is certified insane at the time of the killings and is put into an institution to be rehabilitated and is in two years time certified sane and "cured" and he is reintegrated in to society.... Where would your opinions sit on that one?

That's really the other side of it but in most if not all cases the Americans don't have the same level of sympathy towards killers, psychotic or otherwise that their Euro counterparts do. It can be a good thing in some ways and a bad thing in alot of other ways.

The defense will no doubt argue that the killer was insane and wasnt within his senses however im sure the prosecution will enquire to know how someone not within their senses could acquire such an arsenal of weaponry

31-07-2012 09:54PM

EZ24GET wrote: »

This was the premier -first showing- no one was wearing masks- just him. He bought a ticket to the show, he left by rear exit, pretending to talk on cell phone so his exiting would just be chalked up to trying to get better reception. He left that door propped open with something he kicked in to wedge the door open just enough to be able to get back in. After releasing bombs of some sort, he began to randomly shoot. When he left he left by that rear exit where his car was still parked. He had removed the camo suit, and the clothes and he told the police who arrested him in the parking lot that his car was booby trapped. So then before they go to his apartment he tells them it is a trap. It is there are all sorts of chemicals and amo rigged to explode if the door is opened. As it turns out there was a set up that just as the show was beginning Extremely loud techno music was arranged to start blasting. The downstairs neighbor went to his place to tell him to turn it down, no one comes to the door. She said she even jiggled the handle and was sure the door was not locked.She said something felt really wrong and she didn't open the door. It took 3 days for bomb squads to get into the apartment. The villain in this movie was Bain not the Joker. The Joker was in the movie before this. The Joker doesn't have red hair, he has green hair and make up. The shooter had sprayed his hair red in the parking lot. He did a lot of planning. This wasn't a case of "oh! I have these guns and I'll just go shoot some one."
He was planning this for some time. The fact that he was hoping to blow up the place he lived as a distraction at one end of the city while he shot up the cinema shows he was clear in thought. I am still awaiting evidence of his mental illness. Hopefully there will be a trial so these things will come out. I think though if his lawyers can make a deal that death penalty will be ruled out he will make a plea. Oh, and in the film the good guys win.

I have a question (hope you will think about it) If you had been in that theater and had a legal handgun in your bag or on your person, would you have shot the shooter? I guess the question is to what lengths would you go to protect yourself and your loved ones?

That's a fair point. I think most would agree that we would use a gun as a last resort in the case of having to protect ourselves, or our family or for the common good but the line between an act in the interest of the common good and a mindless shooting can be very very fuzzy.

To be honest i feel in parts of America the gun laws are ridiculously liberal. Would citizens have to take the law into their own hands if so many nutters weren't able to get their hands on guns and weaponry so easily?

crazy cabbage · 31-07-2012 10:00PM

No. Death penealty is wrong. Simple as in my opinion

cartell_best · 31-07-2012 10:13PM

Death is too quick and easy for people like him! If he's been planning this for months in the cold and calculated way he has carried out this absolutely atrocious act, then he obviously believes he has a realistic explanation to think he can walk into a cinema and commit mass murder and then surrender without force. Doesn't sound like a mad man to me but someone who is after rehearsing (in his fooked up mind) and choreographed the the assassination, aftermath and its consequences. Throw him into a cell to rot!

Run_to_da_hills · 31-07-2012 10:14PM

Having studied this case in some debt and seeing that there is so many issues in it that don't seem to add up it wouldn't surprise me if he is "finished off" by the authorities before he ever gets a fair trial.

Cameras were banned from yesterdays hearing despite media requests and I could see a reason for this, he was probably pumped up on more drugs just like he was at the first hearing.

31-07-2012 10:17PM

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Having studied this case in some debt and seeing that there is so many issues in it that don't seem to add up it wouldn't surprise me if he is "finished off" by the authorities before he ever gets a fair trial.

Cameras were banned from yesterdays hearing despite media requests and I could see a reason for this, he was probably pumped up on more drugs just like he was at the first hearing.

Or maybe they've finally figured out how to report on these news proceedings properly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PezlFNTGWv4

Scruffles · 31-07-2012 10:55PM

Deleted User wrote: »

That's really the other side of it but in most if not all cases the Americans don't have the same level of sympathy towards killers, psychotic or otherwise that their Euro counterparts do. It can be a good thing in some ways and a bad thing in alot of other ways.

The defense will no doubt argue that the killer was insane and wasnt within his senses however im sure the prosecution will enquire to know how someone not within their senses could acquire such an arsenal of weaponry

if he was pyschotic,am assuming from own experiences of full blown pyschosis he woud do what he thought was necessary,it is a break from reality rather than a total loss of functioning-speaking of own pyschosis; every single human became a threat to self,it felt like was waiting to be attacked by them,the level of fear experienced under paranoid pyschosis is unimaginable.
am thinking there is a lot more to this than pyschosis,it looks like delusions of grandeur,he thought he was joker and had to rid the cinema of people for whatever reason his perception was giving him-that isnt just a pyschotic delusion its a DoG.

although can understand the hate a lot of people will have towards him for his crime,can also understand his side-if he truly was delusional,had DoG,pyschosis whatever- that to him it was as real as his senses are.
someone who is mentaly sound,who goes and does the same thing woud be very different
because they knew what they were doing,however if this turns out as many of us think it will-he will have been doing the only reality he knew,AKA the delusional unreal reality we know.

as for prisons,perhaps they coud make prisoners carry out tough labor to pay off the cost of them living there,as it woud give them realization of their crimes burden to society as well as be a consequence of their actions.
difficult to say for people in forensic mental units though,then again there are some people who have got a clue about what they done but still live in forensic facilities-ian brady for one,perhaps itd be a useful tool for those with the mental capacity.

Da Shins Kelly · 31-07-2012 11:02PM

Well apparently he was seeing a psychiatrist who specializes in schizophrenia in the weeks leading up to the shooting, so if he is indeed mentally ill, then obviously he should not be executed, he should be put in an institution.

cartell_best · 31-07-2012 11:21PM

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

Well apparently he was seeing a psychiatrist who specializes in schizophrenia in the weeks leading up to the shooting, so if he is indeed mentally ill, then obviously he should not be executed, he should be put in an institution.

You have to forgive me but unfortunately, I am not in the mindset at the moment to understand your comment (as what appears to be his defence's intended plea to be at this initial stage, a temporary lapse in judgement and moreso sanity on his part). Are you being sarcastic or realistic? If you are being realistic, then we have an open field, regardless of geographic location but to commit a heinous crime in a moment of insanity but yet he has the brain power to plan in advance what is in effect, mass murder? If you're being sarcastic, well, I have no logical answer for that.

Tony EH · 31-07-2012 11:30PM

EZ24GET wrote: »

I have a question (hope you will think about it) If you had been in that theater and had a legal handgun in your bag or on your person, would you have shot the shooter? I guess the question is to what lengths would you go to protect yourself and your loved ones?

There are many factors to consider before you should take any gun out, no matter what the circumstances, especially the fact that the shooter had quite a personal arsenal on him. So, if there was some weekend Rambo who decided to pull out his popgun, all of that fire-power would then be training in his/her (and their family's) direction.

Plus, unless the weekend Rambo is trained on how to take down a heavilly armed and armoured assailant...in low visibility...with a ton of innocent targets running around in panic, they are more likely to just make matters worse, than to elivate them.

Firing on a target that can fire back at you isn't the same as trying to hit a paper shape on a gunrange to impress your buddies, or killing an unsuspecting rabbit or deer.

It just isn't as simple as pulling a gun and shooting.

EZ24GET · 01-08-2012 04:23AM

Tony EH wrote: »

There are many factors to consider before you should take any gun out, no matter what the circumstances, especially the fact that the shooter had quite a personal arsenal on him. So, if there was some weekend Rambo who decided to pull out his popgun, all of that fire-power would then be training in his/her (and their family's) direction.

Plus, unless the weekend Rambo is trained on how to take down a heavilly armed and armoured assailant...in low visibility...with a ton of innocent targets running around in panic, they are more likely to just make matters worse, than to elivate them.

Firing on a target that can fire back at you isn't the same as trying to hit a paper shape on a gunrange to impress your buddies, or killing an unsuspecting rabbit or deer.

It just isn't as simple as pulling a gun and shooting.

So you would allow without protest him to continue his murderous rampage. Ok that's your take, but not mine. I suppose that was the reason he set off the bombs. In the state I live you are allowed to get a permit to carry a concealed weapon. You have to take a class and pass a written and physical test first. Everyone should act responsibly.

I don't think this had anything at all to do with what was playing in the theater. It was advertized as a first release at midnight and he knew lots of people would be there. The little "sock puppet" show he put on for the police after they bagged his hands to protect evidence doesn't seem psychotic to me so much as smart alec.

Tony EH · 01-08-2012 02:34PM

EZ24GET wrote: »

So you would allow without protest him to continue his murderous rampage. Ok that's your take, but not mine.

I don't believe I said that.

EZ24GET wrote: »

I don't think this had anything at all to do with what was playing in the theater.

I don't believe that I've said anything along those lines either.

EZ24GET wrote: »

The little "sock puppet" show he put on for the police after they bagged his hands to protect evidence doesn't seem psychotic to me so much as smart alec.

The very fact that he's committed this rampage should show, quite clearly to anyone, that he's as mad as a box of frogs.

Higher · 01-08-2012 02:39PM

After a week in that jail he'll be begging for the death penalty.

I don't want to be crude, but the prisoners are going to rip his hole apart in there and its likely everyday hes going to get attacked after what he did.

It wasn't me! · 01-08-2012 02:57PM

Tony EH wrote: »

The very fact that he's committed this rampage should show, quite clearly to anyone, that he's as mad as a box of frogs.

That perfectly sane people can't do awful things is a very dangerous presumption.

cournioni · 01-08-2012 03:13PM

Give him the death penalty, he's just a waste of tax payers money in a cell.

Tony EH · 01-08-2012 05:23PM

It wasn't me! wrote: »

That perfectly sane people can't do awful things is a very dangerous presumption.

Of course sane people can do terrible things, but I think that calling anyone who's carried out what Holmes did "sane" is stretching the definition a bit much,

EZ24GET · 01-08-2012 08:32PM

It appears to me that it was premeditated murder of innocent people. The families of the victims have asked that his name not be used. I am not alone in my belief that he is trying to get attention. He may very well have mental issues but he is not insane. I believe he knows the difference between right and wrong. These are just my opinions and I don't expect everyone to agree with me.

ruthloss · 08-08-2012 10:27AM

I used to be of the opinion that the US laws on gun ownership were crazy and the reason for the violence in that society.

Recently, after reading about the horrendous attacks on vulnerable old people in their homes in this country, I'm not so sure.

To the people who say violence begets violence, yes, possibly, but oh the satisfaction of blowing the arse off the cretins who perpetrated these heinous deeds.

Run_to_da_hills · 09-08-2012 09:30PM

Joker case gagged: Media fight Colorado court ban

Attorneys representing media outlets are in court to push for the publication of files concerning the Colorado cinema murders. The judge put a gag on the files at the behest of prosecutors, but the press argues the public has a right to see them.

The decision to seal the documents off from public access "undermines our nation's firm commitment to the transparency and public accountability of the criminal justice system," said media lawyer Steven Zansberg in a written statement.

The Associated Press along with 20 other news agencies is appealing for the dissemination of the documents in court this Thursday.

http://rt.com/usa/news/lawyers-gag-colorado-killings-239/

al28283 · 09-08-2012 09:34PM

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Joker case gagged: Media fight Colorado court ban

Attorneys representing media outlets are in court to push for the publication of files concerning the Colorado cinema murders. The judge put a gag on the files at the behest of prosecutors, but the press argues the public has a right to see them.

The decision to seal the documents off from public access "undermines our nation's firm commitment to the transparency and public accountability of the criminal justice system," said media lawyer Steven Zansberg in a written statement.

The Associated Press along with 20 other news agencies is appealing for the dissemination of the documents in court this Thursday.

http://rt.com/usa/news/lawyers-gag-colorado-killings-239/

good to hear

purplepanda · 10-08-2012 01:34AM

Proven mass murderers should get the death penalty IMO, that includes multiple acts of genocide / war crimes & serial killers.

mathstalk · 10-08-2012 02:48AM

mongdesade wrote: »

Locking him up for life would cost the tax payers millions of $'s...a single round in the head, 25c...sorted !

Actually, the legal costs linked with the death penalty are far greater than the cost of life imprisonment. It's not as simple as you put it. There is a huge process behind legally killing somebody.
Even if his prison costs were heftier on the tax payer, I still don't think your point comes into the argument. This is an ethical debate, not economical.

Ethics aside, I'd also like to point out that a round to the head would not the cheapest death. There are some German papers to be found online (albeit they are quite old) on more effient forms of death. I think you could relate quite well to them.

dfx- · 10-08-2012 02:55AM

Poll: Yes. Absolutely.

Tony EH · 10-08-2012 12:04PM

It's not the actual penalty that costs more though. It's how it's carried out. Usually the death penalty also includes a lengthy imprisonment on death row and that's where the costs occur.

Perhaps the death penalty should be carried out Timothy McVeigh style, with minimal time spent on DR. Less than 4 years from sentence to execution, including appeals.

al28283 · 10-08-2012 12:10PM

Tony EH wrote: »

Perhaps the death penalty should be carried out Timothy McVeigh style, with minimal time spent on DR. Less than 4 years from sentence to execution, including appeals.

McVeigh's only went so fast because he didn't want any appeals.

Ellis Dee · 10-08-2012 12:15PM

No one deserves the death penalty. That is why it has been banned in so many humane states.:rolleyes:

Besides, Holmes is still to stand trial and it will be for a court of law to decide whether he is mad or bad or, if a combination of both, in what proportions. Let us hope that the court acts to a high standard of judicial fairness and examines the testimony of psychologists and psychiatrists scrupulously and without bias.:)

The only justification for the death penaltty would be if it could bring the victim(s) back to life.

What matters is that Holmes is already in a place where he can do no harm. The cost of keeping him in prison, even for the next half century, would probably cover the US military budget for three seconds.

If he is found to have been insane, perhaps the next question the Americans should start asking themselves is whether they really want to live in the kind of society where a madman can buy dangerous weapons as easily as a packet of smarties.

Should James Holmes, Colorado Shooter, Get The Death Penalty??

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