Killing people to protect animals?

steddyeddy · 29-07-2012 07:50PM #1

I was looking at National geographic's website recently and noticed an article about a particular type of endangered gazelle. Anyway one poster commented on the photo "Im glad their not extinct but was the amount of people killed to protect them worth it?". A lot of people arent aware but theres a lot of bloodshed involved in protecting certain species. The gorilla for instance wouldnt be around if it werent for the death of hundreds of poachers.

Some species of rhino are nearly extinct and elephants are being killed for their ivory. In both cases poachers are being killed all the time. One rhino conservationist claims to have injected poison into the horn in order to kill the people who are eating it as medicine. On the illegal side of things we have the whale wars crew attacking whaling ships.

Personally I think its a necessary evil but I would rather the targets were the rich people behind the poaching rather than the poor people carried out to poach. Whats every elses opinion?

Demonical · 29-07-2012 07:53PM

Are you seriously questioning this? Id say kill the f**kers.

Myrddin · 29-07-2012 07:53PM

Poachers getting killed? Aww, poor poachers.

later12 · 29-07-2012 07:58PM

Would I shoot a man to protect a gorilla? No, I wouldn't.

I do believe that poachers should be punished heavily for their actions, but I don't consider that punishment ought include the death penalty.

steddyeddy · 29-07-2012 07:58PM

Demonical wrote: »

Are you seriously questioning this? Id say kill the f**kers.

Not everyone feels the same way. Im only asking to find out the publics view of things. Their not always poachers sometimes whalers are attacked too. Personally I think its an important part of conservation. We had a situation at one time where two gorilla infants were stolen and in the process of trying to protect their infants 20 gorillas died all for twenty dollars. That sort of thing should be wiped out.

KenSwee · 29-07-2012 07:59PM

If anybody wants to see first hand just how cruel Humans can be on animals, all they need to do is take a day in as a volunteer as an animal shelter. It will help you to get a perspective on human behaviour and how some people just deserve what they get when they inflict pain on defenceless animals.

girl in the striped socks · 29-07-2012 08:00PM

Well anyone who acts the kunt with animals isn't really a major loss to society in my opinion.
And poachers know the risks, it's entirely their choice to go out & do it. So therefore they must live, or not live, with the consequences.

MarkR · 29-07-2012 08:00PM

They knew the risks. Do the crime, do the time get shot in the face.

I thought this was going to be about people swerving to avoid animals in their car or something.

These are armed criminals being killed during a failed robbery.

steddyeddy · 29-07-2012 08:00PM

later12 wrote: »

Would I shoot a man to protect a gorilla? No, I wouldn't.

I do believe that poachers should be punished heavily for their actions, but I don't consider that punishment ought include the death penalty.

Well their not always executed after. Sometimes the poachers are shot in the process of trying to steal gorilla infants and they fire at the anti poaching patrols. Other times they are executed after.

kwestfan08 · 29-07-2012 08:00PM

Oops misread the thread title. Thought it referred to something like moving a family out of their home or something just so a certain animal might survive.

As for poachers getting killed. Well they wouldn't be getting hurt of they weren't doing anything illegal so if your going to hunt big game, be prepared to be hunted yourself I guess.

steddyeddy · 29-07-2012 08:02PM

It isnt all about poachers. What do people think about people using force (illegally) to stop whaling.

Pompey Magnus · 29-07-2012 08:03PM

Ideally they should be captured peacefully, have their weapon removed and then placed in an arena with their intended target. If they can kill the adult silverback or rhino in a fair fight then they can keep it's body.

later12 · 29-07-2012 08:03PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

Well their not always executed after. Sometimes the poachers are shot in the process of trying to steal gorilla infants and they fire at the anti poaching patrols.

That's self defence though, not really in the same category of retaliation.

Other times they are executed after.

That's the one I'd have a problem with. I don't believe in the death penalty as a punishment; why not send them to prison and at least force them to do something productive for society

partyatmygaff · 29-07-2012 08:03PM

We don't want the death penalty for murderers but we do for poachers?

It's a strange world.

kirving · 29-07-2012 08:05PM

On Whale Wars, I respect what they're trying to do - I think that something needs to be done to stop commercial whaling. But, some of them are a bunch of clowns. Puttting the lives of crew members(of both ships) in danger in the Antartic due to a stupidly thought out plan and too much bravado is just crazy. One of them is going to be killed in the near future.

Anyway, the reason poachers are shot is that they have guns, and would rather shoot a park ranger rather than be imprisoned. Better to shoot first and ask questions later when your life (as a park rangers) is at risk.

dlofnep · 29-07-2012 08:05PM

Humans are animals, just like every other on this planet. We have zero rights to kill an animal for anything other than a food source or protecting livestock. Poachers don't get a free pass with me. Every time I see one of those **** with a high-powered rifle trying to get their kicks out of levelling a defenceless animal (in particular those endangered) - I justifiably root for the animal. Just like those exhibitions where bulls are speared to death, it brings me great pleasure watching the Matador's getting lobbed into the air like a lump of dough.

Dyr · 29-07-2012 08:05PM

Are humans endangered? Nope. Fire away boys

They should be shooting their paymasters and all

Killer Wench · 29-07-2012 08:06PM

I don't condone killing people to protect animals. I believe in severe punishments like imprisonment, exile, public embarrassment, boycotts, and the like but not the killing. Then again, I think it is ridiculous that people kill doctors who perform abortions, and I am also against the death penalty.

later12 · 29-07-2012 08:07PM

dlofnep wrote: »

Humans are animals, just like every other on this planet. We have zero rights to kill an animal for anything other than a food source

Wait, so those of us in the developed world who can afford high protein dietary alternatives shouldn't be permitted to kill animals for food... right?

Or are you saying we should be allowed killed tasty things because the alternative would be less tasty?

girl in the striped socks · 29-07-2012 08:07PM

Bambi wrote: »

Are humans endangered? Nope. Fire away boys

They should be shooting their paymasters and all

Very appropriate username

girl in the striped socks · 29-07-2012 08:09PM

KenSwee wrote: »

If anybody wants to see first hand just how cruel Humans can be on animals, all they need to do is take a day in as a volunteer as an animal shelter. It will help you to get a perspective on human behaviour and how some people just deserve what they get when they inflict pain on defenceless animals.

Wish I could thank this post more than once.
Couldn't have said it better tbh.

dlofnep · 29-07-2012 08:09PM

later12 wrote: »

Wait, so those of us in the developed world who can afford high protein dietary alternatives shouldn't be permitted to kill animals for food... right?

Or are you saying we should be allowed killed tasty things because the alternative would be less tasty?

No, meat is a legitimate source of food - and without it, we would not have evolved to have the brain we have today. If people want to eat the food, they can hunt for it - so long as it's done in a sustainable manner.

Killing animals for fun, or for the trophy however is utterly senseless.

woodoo · 29-07-2012 08:09PM

Yeah i'm 100% behind killing poachers to protect endangered species.

Pawwed Rig · 29-07-2012 08:10PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

It isnt all about poachers. What do people think about people using force (illegally) to stop whaling.

They would argue that the Whalers are acting illegally. Isn't it outlawed by international law with the Japanese getting around the ban by saying it is for 'scientific research'. I am looking forward to a big breakthrough from Japan as a result of this research.
Another issue is Shark Finning where the 'fisherman' slices of the sharks fin and throws the live shark back into the water to essentially drown.

Should people be killed for this? Probably not as you are going after desperate poor people trying to get through life. There is no real alternative though if they are shooting at the anti poaching patrol.

An education campaign and strong laws in China and other Asian countries would eliminate demand for Shark Fins, Rhino horns, Ivory etc. Who is going to stand up to the Chinese though?

steddyeddy · 29-07-2012 08:12PM

Kevin Irving wrote: »

On Whale Wars, I respect what they're trying to do - I think that something needs to be done to stop commercial whaling. But, some of them are a bunch of clowns. Puttting the lives of crew members(of both ships) in danger in the Antartic due to a stupidly thought out plan and too much bravado is just crazy. One of them is going to be killed in the near future.

Anyway, the reason poachers are shot is that they have guns, and would rather shoot a park ranger rather than be imprisoned. Better to shoot first and ask questions later when your life (as a park rangers) is at risk.

True but often the poacher is killed after. I will point out a fair amount of conservationists are killed protecting animals. Dian Fossey who protected the mountain gorillas was killed protecting the gorillas.

My name is URL · 29-07-2012 08:12PM

I have no strong feelings one way or the other.

later12 · 29-07-2012 08:12PM

dlofnep wrote: »

No, meat is a legitimate source of food - and without it, we would not have evolved to have the brain we have today

You could say the same thing for animal skins. We needed them at one point, but we don't anymore. Those of us in advanced economies in particular can easily afford to live on non meat alternatives.

So your argument is that because we used to need it, we should be allowed kill them? This sounds a little irrational...

Also; for those saying we should allow kill to protect endangered species, do you extend this to our old friend the Leptogomphus yayeyamensis, a rare Japanese dragonfly? Would you shoot to protect the Leptogomphus yayeyamensis, or does it only count if the animal is sufficiently pretty?

Capt'n Midnight · 29-07-2012 08:17PM

Kenya has the death penalty for robbery with violence. So you can imagine what it's like in poorer countries.

Real problem is that this will happen if there is a market for it.

So should people dealing in animal products should have to face penalties that match the reality of the human deaths involved ?

The growing wealth of China is killing off too many endangered species :mad:

steddyeddy · 29-07-2012 08:18PM

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

They would argue that the Whalers are acting illegally. Isn't it outlawed by international law with the Japanese getting around the ban by saying it is for 'scientific research'. I am looking forward to a big breakthrough from Japan as a result of this research.
Another issue is Shark Finning where the 'fisherman' slices of the sharks fin and throws the live shark back into the water to essentially drown.

Should people be killed for this? Probably not as you are going after desperate poor people trying to get through life. There is no real alternative though if they are shooting at the anti poaching patrol.

An education campaign and strong laws in China and other Asian countries would eliminate demand for Shark Fins, Rhino horns, Ivory etc. Who is going to stand up to the Chinese though?

Thats the thing. Trying to protect theses creatures is like fighting a war at times. In some parts of the world non violent conservation has worked but not always. Education is important I agree and a better alternative to violence.

B.A._Baracus · 29-07-2012 08:18PM

They shouldnt be killed.
But if the poachers were carring guns themselves (which surely alot are?) Well thats different. But on the surface I dont think a person should be shot over an endagered animal. Arrested, jailed or whatever. Sure.

Its funny tho. Its perfectly acceptable to kill millions of cows, pigs and chickens because we breed them and we are higher on the food chain. The nature of life you could say. But if you try to kill an endangered animal? thats "too far" ... is extinction not the nature of life aswell?

steddyeddy · 29-07-2012 08:19PM

later12 wrote: »

You could say the same thing for animal skins. We needed them at one point, but we don't anymore. Those of us in advanced economies in particular can easily afford to live on non meat alternatives.

So your argument is that because we used to need it, we should be allowed kill them? This sounds a little irrational...

Also; for those saying we should allow kill to protect endangered species, do you extend this to our old friend the Leptogomphus yayeyamensis, a rare Japanese dragonfly? Would you shoot to protect the Leptogomphus yayeyamensis, or does it only count if the animal is sufficiently pretty?

Im talking about endangered animals not cows or any livestock.

Killing people to protect animals?

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