Why cinemas can go to hell, and I will pirate [ MOD WARNING IN OP ]

marienbad · 17-07-2012 10:16PM

Kinski wrote: »

Actually, it's not theft - it's copyright infringement. Still wrong, but not theft (it's a civil offence, not a criminal one.) Calling it theft is just as hyperbolic as saying cinemas are so bad you just can't ever go to one, and therefore illegally downloading is justified.

Theft ,copyright infringement , just hairsplitting - the point I am making is it is illegal and people not accepting that are just lying to themselves.

I made no complaint about cinemas - in fact I defended them .

Generally speaking though I have no problem with illegal downloading.

AoifeCN · 21-07-2012 03:45PM

I know your pain, I wish more independent cinemas would open with reasonably priced tickets and snacks, a 2d option and screen some of the classic films that we younger people didn't get a chance to see in cinema !

GavMan · 23-07-2012 02:57PM

Was anyone at The Dark Knight Rises on Sunday (specifically Screen 03, 8pm screening) at Movies@Dundrum???

Did anyone find the heat in the screen neigh on unbearable? Frankly it was ridiculous and damn near unsafe. I genuinely felt like passing out at one point.

Would some aircon have gone amiss??

Definitely will be voicing my concerns to the management.

gbee · 23-07-2012 03:23PM

GavMan wrote: »

Was anyone at The Dark Knight Rises on Sunday (specifically Screen 03, 8pm screening)???.

Mahon?

My sons went Saturday midnight or so, I'll ask.

Asked: Screen 4 no problem.

Theboinkmaster · 23-07-2012 03:33PM

I was at the Dark Knight Rises last night in Vue and will never go back

- €25 for 2 tickets
- no air con, way too hot
- popcorn was stale
- 3 trailers, all cartoons WTF
- about 9-10 ads
- people around me kept taking out their iphones, found glare really distracting
- sound was poor
- in gents all soaps were empty
- full of knackers

I have no problem downloading for most films and will continue to do so. For good ones like the Batman films ill happily spend my money on the blu ray and watch on my home cinema system.

GavMan · 23-07-2012 03:45PM

gbee wrote: »

Mahon?

My sons went Saturday midnight or so, I'll ask.

Asked: Screen 4 no problem.

Silly me forgot to include my location. Movies@Dundrum

johnny_ultimate · 23-07-2012 04:16PM

It genuinely saddens and frustrates me to see so many people boasting about only going to see the big event movies and illegally downloading everything else. I genuinely think it's one of the most harmful, hypocritical things a film fan can do.

Theboinkmaster · 23-07-2012 04:36PM

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

It genuinely saddens and frustrates me to see so many people boasting about only going to see the big event movies and illegally downloading everything else. I genuinely think it's one of the most harmful, hypocritical things a film fan can do.

Why? I don't mean to boast about downloading but to explain my reasoning. I'm happy to support great films by buying the blu ray (and not just big films but smaller films this year like The Raid), my issue is with the whole cinema experience in Ireland.

e_e · 23-07-2012 04:49PM

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

my issue is with the whole cinema experience in Ireland.

But it's NOT about the whole cinema experience in Ireland! You're projecting one bad experience in a cinema onto everywhere else, and it's not the big event movies that need to be supported. It's the smaller, more interesting and thoughtful fare that should be seen in the cinema to stop the latest big 3D movies dominating half the screens. It is harmful for the industry (and other film lovers who want to see more) whether you refuse to acknowledge it or not.

marienbad · 23-07-2012 07:41PM

e_e wrote: »

But it's NOT about the whole cinema experience in Ireland! You're projecting one bad experience in a cinema onto everywhere else, and it's not the big event movies that need to be supported. It's the smaller, more interesting and thoughtful fare that should be seen in the cinema to stop the latest big 3D movies dominating half the screens. It is harmful for the industry (and other film lovers who want to see more) whether you refuse to acknowledge it or not.

The most harmful thing to the industry is the industry and that is why I take a supportive stance on downloading.

23-07-2012 08:27PM

GavMan wrote: »

Was anyone at The Dark Knight Rises on Sunday (specifically Screen 03, 8pm screening) at Movies@Dundrum???

Did anyone find the heat in the screen neigh on unbearable? Frankly it was ridiculous and damn near unsafe. I genuinely felt like passing out at one point.

Would some aircon have gone amiss??

Definitely will be voicing my concerns to the management.

They probably turned off the aircon to save money and/or encourage people to buy expensive drinks. Wouldn't be the first time a venue has done it.

Sad Professor · 23-07-2012 08:35PM

The way I see it is if you are going to pirate then pirate, but at least be honest with yourself rather than making up some dodgy moral justification for it. There isn't any. There's no automatic entitlement to watch a film right now this minute at a price and in a format of your choosing. Anyone who really believes that they are justified in torrenting a film because of stupid teenagers in the cinema, unskippable Blu-ray ads, the lack of a premium Netflix-type subscription service or because they want to get back at the film industry isn't convincing anyone. Chances are you'll always be pirating because you'll always be able to find some new excuse to do so.

e_e · 23-07-2012 08:41PM

marienbad wrote: »

The most harmful thing to the industry is the industry and that is why I take a supportive stance on downloading.

So why even download in the first place if you couldn't give a toss about film? This seems to be the hypocrisy that Johnny is talking about, people complaining about the lack of worthwhile films being released when they only have themselves to blame for studios not taking enough risks and going for the easy sell.

marienbad · 23-07-2012 09:45PM

e_e wrote: »

So why even download in the first place if you couldn't give a toss about film? This seems to be the hypocrisy that Johnny is talking about, people complaining about the lack of worthwhile films being released when they only have themselves to blame for studios not taking enough risks and going for the easy sell.

Who says I don't give a toss about film ? I care about film more than most actually, but the film industry is killing the film industry and at the same time making profits as never before .

Is downloading illegal ? unquestionably yes ? and I don't make any fake excuses about that , it is breaking the law .

Is it unethical ? now there is the question , and the answer ( to me at least) is not so cut and dried.

As to how I square that circle - I can do it without too much difficulty if you like , but i don't want to derail the thread .

Thwip! · 23-07-2012 09:55PM

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

I was at the Dark Knight Rises last night in Vue and will never go back

- €25 for 2 tickets
- no air con, way too hot
- popcorn was stale
- 3 trailers, all cartoons WTF
- about 9-10 ads
- people around me kept taking out their iphones, found glare really distracting
- sound was poor
- in gents all soaps were empty
- full of knackers

I have no problem downloading for most films and will continue to do so. For good ones like the Batman films ill happily spend my money on the blu ray and watch on my home cinema system.

Compare to my own experience of TDKR in Omniplex

18.20 for 2 tickets
nice and cool
Popcorn was nice, and no harm in the few nibbles :P
3 trailers (all films i would be interested in seeing tbf -Rise of the guardians looks cool)
1 oblig J-Lo ad
Cinema audience was stone quiet, bar one guy near the end clinking a coke can
Sound was good, bar just generally not fully able to understand Bane
Tidy gents
Grand mix of people watching it. One guy wearing a Riddler tie

Theboinkmaster · 23-07-2012 10:19PM

jpcarlow wrote: »

Compare to my own experience of TDKR in Omniplex
18.20 for 2 tickets

nice and cool

Popcorn was nice, and no harm in the few nibbles :P

3 trailers (all films i would be interested in seeing tbf -Rise of the guardians looks cool)

1 oblig J-Lo ad

Cinema audience was stone quiet, bar one guy near the end clinking a coke can

Sound was good, bar just generally not fully able to understand Bane

Tidy gents

Grand mix of people watching it. One guy wearing a Riddler tie

What's your point? :P

johnny_ultimate · 23-07-2012 10:28PM

There's 'the industry' (:mad:) and then there's 'the industry' (:))

Yes, Hollywood are putting out unimaginative dreck on a weekly basis, like they always have. Yes, some multiplexes are overpriced. And yes, someone out there is still keeping Michael Bay employed.

But then there's The Lighthouse, constantly struggling to be something admirably different and returning a bit of character to the cinema going experience. Masters of Cinema or Criterion, presenting meticulous remasterings of cinema classics both underappreciated and widely beloved at justified premiums. Third Window Films, distributing fantastic examples Asian cinema but forced to cease theatrical distribution due to audiences all but ignoring masterpieces like Himizu. Artificial Eye, Soda and others releasing the best world cinema as a whole has to offer, surely taking a plethora of risks in the process. Online retailers providing a highly competitive environment for DVDs and Blu-Ray. Upstarts on the online streaming scene like Curzon-on-demand, Volta and MUBI. Heck, even the studios pouring profits into the smaller, fascinating films through their 'indie' (giggle) offshoots like Fox Searchlight or Sony Classics.

So yes 'the industry' is evil and deserve to be punished. But 'the industry' is also enriching the cinematic landscape, and piracy / apathy is preventing them from accessing the resources to continue doing so.

gbee · 23-07-2012 10:53PM

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

and piracy is preventing them from accessing the resources to continue doing so.

I've had enough of this, if only 10% of this was actually true, the most recent Batman would not be playing to over half a cinema's capacity, ie 4 screens out of six, nationwide, if not world wide as we type.

Thwip! · 23-07-2012 10:54PM

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

What's your point? :P

That its the individual cinema not cinemas as a whole that are the cause of your discomfort:P

Cantona's Collars · 24-07-2012 12:27AM

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

It genuinely saddens and frustrates me to see so many people boasting about only going to see the big event movies and illegally downloading everything else. I genuinely think it's one of the most harmful, hypocritical things a film fan can do.

The cost & distance to travel to my nearest cinema makes it nigh on impossible for me to go as much as I'd like so it takes an 'event' movie to get me there.TDKR being the main one this summer.That's why I end up downloading most movies plus I couldn't be bothered sitting in a cinema watching a drama which looks just the same on my tv at home.

Before my local cinema closed it pretty much became a no go area on a Saturday night as it was full of travellers who thought the rules didn't apply to them as they brought in stuff from the takeaway across the road,shouted across the cinema at each other or shouted into their phones.That put off everyone else from going & the inevitable closure happened.Sad considering it used to have queues up the street.Now I have a 40 mile round trip to the cinema so it's less & less attractive to go.

johnny_ultimate · 24-07-2012 01:40AM

zerks wrote: »

The cost & distance to travel to my nearest cinema makes it nigh on impossible for me to go as much as I'd like so it takes an 'event' movie to get me there.TDKR being the main one this summer.That's why I end up downloading most movies plus I couldn't be bothered sitting in a cinema watching a drama which looks just the same on my tv at home.

Before my local cinema closed it pretty much became a no go area on a Saturday night as it was full of travellers who thought the rules didn't apply to them as they brought in stuff from the takeaway across the road,shouted across the cinema at each other or shouted into their phones.That put off everyone else from going & the inevitable closure happened.Sad considering it used to have queues up the street.Now I have a 40 mile round trip to the cinema so it's less & less attractive to go.

Oh, it's been mentioned a few times that regional restrictions are a genuine motivation for not going, can't possibly deny that. However, various people throughout the thread have complained about cinemas from a clearly Dublin-centric viewpoint, and the available alternatives makes their argument ring much hollower, IMO.

I also think there are much more options available than a. cinema or b. download. The increasing availability of digital downloads / streaming just goes to show that even when legal alternatives are available, many will still download illegally, and that's when the arguments grow even hazier. And, honestly, it's never been cheaper or easier to buy DVDs or Blu-Ray. Easily the single most valid justification for piracy IMO is the complete lack of a film availability anywhere. That is in my experience becoming an increasingly rare phenomenon. I've had to track down quite a few very obscure films recently, and haven't had any major problems getting them legally through import sites.

marienbad · 24-07-2012 01:49AM

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

There's 'the industry' (:mad:) and then there's 'the industry' (:))

Yes, Hollywood are putting out unimaginative dreck on a weekly basis, like they always have. Yes, some multiplexes are overpriced. And yes, someone out there is still keeping Michael Bay employed.

But then there's The Lighthouse, constantly struggling to be something admirably different and returning a bit of character to the cinema going experience. Masters of Cinema or Criterion, presenting meticulous remasterings of cinema classics both underappreciated and widely beloved at justified premiums. Third Window Films, distributing fantastic examples Asian cinema but forced to cease theatrical distribution due to audiences all but ignoring masterpieces like Himizu. Artificial Eye, Soda and others releasing the best world cinema as a whole has to offer, surely taking a plethora of risks in the process. Online retailers providing a highly competitive environment for DVDs and Blu-Ray. Upstarts on the online streaming scene like Curzon-on-demand, Volta and MUBI. Heck, even the studios pouring profits into the smaller, fascinating films through their 'indie' (giggle) offshoots like Fox Searchlight or Sony Classics.

So yes 'the industry' is evil and deserve to be punished. But 'the industry' is also enriching the cinematic landscape, and piracy / apathy is preventing them from accessing the resources to continue doing so.

You sounds like me 30/40 years ago jhonny - a dedicated cineaste and music lover more than willing to pay my way and to pay top dollar at that

And now after over 40 years I am a bit of a sad sack but still love movies and music more than ever , but I feel the future of cinema resides not in big bloated rebooted batman and Spiderman absolute rubbish science plugs that pass for movies ,but in all those pirate kids out there dying to create but with to chance no do so.

I will try and make a more coherent agument tomorrow- too tired just now

johnny_ultimate · 24-07-2012 01:59AM

marienbad wrote: »

but in all those pirate kids out there dying to create but with to chance no do so.

As in a utopian society where all art is free, and the artists are rewarded appropriately for their contribution to society? That would be wonderful. I'd like to think everyone who downloads is a staunch advocate of borderless art and transmission, but I'm not exactly convinced having a read through this thread.

Personally, as someone starting off in the film industry (I do have a livelihood to worry about), a passionate cinephile, and an enthusiastic supporter of world and independent cinema, unfortunately that utopian ideal, while admirable, has little to no grounding in contemporary reality. Also I don't want to see the cinema as a concept disappear - perhaps not quite as militant as Germaine Greer when it comes to the ritual of the darkened theatre, but militant nonetheless

Also as a poor student it's increasingly rare I'm able to pay top dollar, but having just watched my pristine Blu-Ray copies of Sansho Dayu / Gion Bayashi, rest assured it was worth every cent I pulled together for it.

Chancer3001 · 24-07-2012 05:52AM

probably been mentioned already, but piracy is much more a problem for DVD sales than Movies in the cinema. The versions from Cams are generally very very poor, and the most downloaded torrents tend to be of the Blu ray / HD versions which come out once the film gets released on DVD.

Sleepy · 24-07-2012 09:28AM

jpcarlow wrote: »

1 oblig J-Lo ad

The best argument in favour of downloading in this torrent yet tbh.

krudler · 24-07-2012 09:36AM

I can't understand why anyone would watch a cam of something, they look like they were filmed on a calculator. I saw one where the camera wasnt even directly facing the screen it was off to the side, and the focus and white balance were yo yo-ing every shot.

I def agree people in major cities like Dublin have little to complain about regarding choice, you have the Screen, the IFI and the Lighthouse showing smaller movies and loads of multiplexes, most towns in Ireland have one cinema, some have none so the chances of seeing something that isnt a blockbuster are slim. between 1997 and 2005 Limerick only had one actual cinema, now we have three, there used to be quite a few and some of them were lovely, proper old style theatre cinemas. If I ever had the money I'd open a cinema with a small number of screens, art deco styled, catering for movie fans who are sick of the multiplex experience.

hefferboi · 24-07-2012 09:45AM

Went to IMC Thurles sat night to see TDKR in 2d. Paid 5.80 for a student ticket with no student i.d. And 6.80 for a large popcorn and large drink. And only one ad for Superman!

gbee · 24-07-2012 09:55AM

On the subject of ads, it used be the case where ads were made for the cinema and only seen there. These would be theatrical productions and used be entertaining in and of themselves.

Today, however, we see these same ads on TV, any Internet News Feed, we have to kill them from our everday browsers and unfriend any youtube buddy who 'monatizies' his account.

krudler · 24-07-2012 10:01AM

gbee wrote: »

On the subject of ads, it used be the case where ads were made for the cinema and only seen there. These would be theatrical productions and used be entertaining in and of themselves.

Today, however, we see these same ads on TV, any Internet News Feed, we have to kill them from our everday browsers and unfriend any youtube buddy who 'monatizies' his account.

Agreed, Orange in the UK does good cinema ads, but sweet jesus I'm sick of seeing the same reel of ads for stuff like Ben & Jerrys, that bloody J-Lo razor ad and Chicago Town pizzas. the majority of stuff you see advertised in the cinema is stuff you can't buy at the cinema! Advertise sweets, coca cola, upcoming tv shows, blu-ray releases of big movies etc etc, stuff that actually has some connection with the cinema itself. I'll sit through 20 minutes of trailers not a bother but endless ads are headwrecking. some cinemas in the States show the start time and the actual film start time so you know how much of the ads you can miss by arriving later.

24-07-2012 10:07AM

I went to the Lighthouse to see TDKR

10.30 showing
16 euro for two student passes + booking fee (19 without student rate)
Bar open (Staropramen @ 4.50 - not bad)
Cinema absolutely stuffed
No ads at all
2/3 trailers
Most of the audience aged 25+

Why? Because it's a cinema. It doesn't have toy machines or slot machines. It's clean crisp and I would say the local scummers would walk up to cineworld. As long as The Lighthouse stays open and is reasonably priced, I won't go to another cinema if I can help it. It's so nice to be treated like an adult in a cinema.

Why cinemas can go to hell, and I will pirate [** MOD WARNING IN OP **]

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Why cinemas can go to hell, and I will pirate [ MOD WARNING IN OP ]