Sexual Orientation

wolfsbane · 16-07-2012 07:50PM #1

Seems paedophilia is a sexual orientation, not a choice, according to James Cantor, an associate professor of psychiatry at the University of Toronto, a psychologist and senior scientist at the Sexual Behaviors Clinic of the Center for Addiction and Mental Health. He is editor in chief of "Sexual Abuse: A Journal of Research and Treatment" and blogs at Sexology Today:
Do pedophiles deserve sympathy?
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/06/21/opinion/cantor-pedophila-sandusky/index.html

What does that say for the 'I was born that way' defence offered for homosexuality? A brother puts it well on this short piece I posted on another thread:
The Divine Institution of Marriage
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dt-Bdcd8cZ0&feature=youtu.be

NOTE: According to WND, James Cantor is a homosexual psychologist and scientist at the Sexual Behaviors Clinic of the Center for Addiction and Mental Health who serves as associate professor of psychiatry at the University of Toronto.
HAS THE NORMALIZING OF PEDOPHILIA BEGUN?
http://www.wnd.com/2012/07/has-the-normalizing-of-pedophilia-begun/

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Ephesians 2:2 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

Wiggles88 · 16-07-2012 07:56PM

wolfsbane wrote: »

Seems paedophilia is a sexual orientation, not a choice, according to James Cantor, an associate professor of psychiatry at the University of Toronto, a psychologist and senior scientist at the Sexual Behaviors Clinic of the Center for Addiction and Mental Health. He is editor in chief of "Sexual Abuse: A Journal of Research and Treatment" and blogs at Sexology Today:
Do pedophiles deserve sympathy?
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/06/21/opinion/cantor-pedophila-sandusky/index.html

What does that say for the 'I was born that way' defence offered for homosexuality? A brother puts it well on this short piece I posted on another thread:
The Divine Institution of Marriage
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dt-Bdcd8cZ0&feature=youtu.be

NOTE: According to WND, James Cantor is a homosexual psychologist and scientist at the Sexual Behaviors Clinic of the Center for Addiction and Mental Health who serves as associate professor of psychiatry at the University of Toronto.
HAS THE NORMALIZING OF PEDOPHILIA BEGUN?
http://www.wnd.com/2012/07/has-the-normalizing-of-pedophilia-begun/

Homosexuality and paedophilia are two very different things. Practicing homosexuality between two consenting adults hurts no one and there is no logical reason to oppose those consenting adults from being happy together. Practicing paedophilia involves a child who is too young to comprehend what is going on and is therefore unable to consent to it ergo it is wrong for the adult to force himself/herself onto the child even if it is a sexual orientation.

SloomyRengen · 16-07-2012 08:05PM

Paedophilia's definition as a sexual orientation has no bearing on the morality of sexually assaulting a child, which is what any contact of that nature with children is. Why do you only compare it to homosexuality though? Last I checked there exists heterosexuality also as a sexual orientation which is just as bestial and fun as being gay. Just trying to aid you in forming a rounded and thorough argument here, something I'm sure you'll appreciate.;)

Corkfeen · 16-07-2012 08:06PM

Are you serious, you're equating two consenting adults in a relationship to pedophilia? Pedophilia is not being normalised at all and it's just an ultraconservative website making a claim while clearly illustrating their homophobia.

In a related commentary on WND, Reisman said, “The APA path to pedophile norms follows the success of the homosexual anarchy campaign. Arguably, the pedophile media lobby directed the passionate boy-boy kisses on the TV series ‘Glee,’ to enable fellow ‘minor-attracted persons’ to increasingly be seen as a boy’s sex ‘friend.

What the hell is a homosexual anarchy campaign? There isn't a pedophile media lobby.....

From the CNN report...

The best example of this effort is the Prevention Project Dunkelfeld in Germany, supported financially by private donation. It began with a media campaign aimed at people struggling to resist their sexual interests to children. By offering counseling and other services, it is expected that they can remain offense-free. Hundreds of people contacted the Dunkelfeld project after it was established. People from all over the world, including Austria, Switzerland and England, turned to the assistance.
...

It's too early to tell whether these efforts are effective over the long term, but preliminary reports are encouraging.
Even though very few researchers study the causes of pedophilia, we hope that the scientific community will learn more as new tools and opportunities become available.
If it is the brain's wiring that ultimately determines who will go on to develop pedophilia, can we detect it early enough to interrupt the process? Until we uncover more information, we will do more good by making it easier for pedophiles to come in for help rather than force them into solitary secrecy.

It's not an attempt to normalise pedophilia, it is to take preventative measures against those who are predisposed to it and to treat it early. This is to avoid endangering children who cannot consent and would suffer severe psychological damage as a result.

wolfsbane · 16-07-2012 08:06PM

Wiggles88 wrote: »

Homosexuality and paedophilia are two very different things. Practicing homosexuality between two consenting adults hurts no one and there is no logical reason to oppose those consenting adults from being happy together. Practicing paedophilia involves a child who is too young to comprehend what is going on and is therefore unable to consent to it ergo it is wrong for the adult to force himself/herself onto the child even if it is a sexual orientation.

Indeed, they are different in the way you say. One involves non-consent, the other not. As to homosexuality not hurting anyone, that is at least disputable - the Christian will say it degrades the spirit of both parties by its unnatural affections and acts, and brings God's wrath for its perversion of His provision of sex.

But my point was not to link homosexuality with paedophilia - just to show that the common homosexual defence 'I was born this way/ it's an orientation, not a choice' is invalid. Even if true, it establishes no more than the same defence does for paedophilia.

*************************************************************
Ephesians 2:2 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

wolfsbane · 16-07-2012 08:12PM

Corkfeen wrote: »

Are you serious, you're equating two consenting adults in a relationship to pedophilia? Pedophilia is not being normalised at all and it's just an ultraconservative website making a claim while clearly illustrating their homophobia.

What the hell is a homosexual anarchy campaign? There isn't a pedophile media lobby.....

From the CNN report...

It's not an attempt to normalise pedophilia, it is to take preventative measures against those who are predisposed to it and to treat it early. This is to avoid endangering children who cannot consent and would suffer severe psychological damage as a result.

I did not quote the site to debate their assertion about normalising paedophilia. I linked it to give the source of my quote regarding Cantor's sexuality. So I'm not equating both sins, nor do I know anything about a homosexuality anarchy campaign.

But maybe I'll follow it up, now that you point it out.

******************************************************************
Ephesians 2:2 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

Wiggles88 · 16-07-2012 08:14PM

wolfsbane wrote: »

Indeed, they are different in the way you say. One involves non-consent, the other not. As to homosexuality not hurting anyone, that is at least disputable - the Christian will say it degrades the spirit of both parties by its unnatural affections and acts, and brings God's wrath for its perversion of His provision of sex.

I doubt any homosexual couple are concerned with your worrying about their spirit. Christians will say its wrong because a book tells them so, not a particularly logical reason I would say.

But my point was not to link homosexuality with paedophilia - just to show that the common homosexual defence 'I was born this way/ it's an orientation, not a choice' is invalid. Even if true, it establishes no more than the same defence does for paedophilia.

Sure it was, you just happened to pick links from a highly homophobic website which are saying just that...

tommy2bad · 16-07-2012 08:14PM

I wouldn't have a problem defining pedophilia as an orientation, the question is one of degrees.
To what extent is it a pre disposed orientation or one that is the result of conditioning. The recidivism rate for pedophiles is high so I'm inclined to presume it's inate. Being a pedophile isn't a crime, assault of children is and that applies to homo, hetro and peado. as it should.
As to what this has to do with homosexuality is another thread (probably a big long one that already has run over the same ground over and over).
That video btw just reminds me that it isn't just the bad language that I hate about rap. :P

christmas2012 · 16-07-2012 08:15PM

its natures way of saying this man cannot pro create its like the same with homosexuals/lesbiens..

there not meant to parent/father children..

tommy2bad · 16-07-2012 08:21PM

christmas2012 wrote: »

its natures way of saying this man cannot pro create its like the same with homosexuals/lesbiens..

there not meant to parent/father children..

What, pedophilia? Eh I don't think so, their not infertile you know, which if nature was putting her oar in would be the way of saying 'can't procreate'

christmas2012 · 16-07-2012 08:22PM

But with their sexual attraction to children it almost as much seals their fate,and with homos(look i know theres technology around now,and some sneaky pedos gays getting in hetro relationships to have kids,but nature did dictate their initial sexual attraction)..

tommy2bad · 16-07-2012 08:27PM

christmas2012 wrote: »

But with their sexual attraction to children it almost as much seals their fate,and with homos(look i know theres technology around now,and some sneaky pedos gays getting in hetro relationships to have kids,but nature did dictate their initial sexual attraction)..

WOW, just wow!
That has to be trolling.
Must. Not. Feed.

Zillah · 16-07-2012 08:33PM

wolfsbane wrote: »

But my point was not to link homosexuality with paedophilia - just to show that the common homosexual defence 'I was born this way/ it's an orientation, not a choice' is invalid. Even if true, it establishes no more than the same defence does for paedophilia.

You seem to be confusing a few things here.

When a gay person says "I was born this way" they are usually saying it in response to someone saying something like "You are a deviant" or "You chose to be this way", or, indeed, "You are an abomination in God's eyes". You can hardly claim that God disapproves of your nature when it is He that defined that nature.

No one is claiming that their nature compels them to act on their sexuality, however. A reasonable person's response would be that suppressing one's sexuality tends to be a very unhealthy and, often, dangerous thing to do. Just look at the suicide statistics for gay teenagers, it is really quite horrifying, and almost exclusively the fault of a society that tries to convince them that they are dirty and broken down to the core, and weak for not being able to change.

The key difference with paedophilia is that because expressing it would harm children the individual simply has to endure the consequences of suppressing their sexuality because the alternative is unacceptable.

qrrgprgua · 16-07-2012 08:38PM

Wolfsbane.. The problem is today its not politically correct to question someones sexual preferences.. Right and wrong all depends on consent. Attraction to a young boy/girl is seen as perverted, wrong, "to be fixed".. And rightly so. Atraction to someone of same sex is seen as normal.. ... Both are sexual orientations. From a secular point of view 2 men deciding to live their lives together is really their issue. Its their informed choice. As christians do we say they have to follow out beliefs?

Zillah · 16-07-2012 08:39PM

tommy2bad wrote: »

WOW, just wow!
That has to be trolling.
Must. Not. Feed.

Certainly some long-term planning there!

Corkfeen · 16-07-2012 08:44PM

wolfsbane wrote: »

I did not quote the site to debate their assertion about normalising paedophilia. I linked it to give the source of my quote regarding Cantor's sexuality. So I'm not equating both sins, nor do I know anything about a homosexuality anarchy campaign.

But maybe I'll follow it up, now that you point it out.

You just assume the two are comparable which they are not. One causes a lifetime of pain for a child. While the other is between two consenting adults who love each other. Both parties are gay and choose to enter a relationship, this causes no harm whatsoever to either party and there is no reason it should not be socially acceptable.Being homosexual is natural and the next part is key, it is two people of the same orientation in a relationship of their free will. A child is incapable of consenting and it will cause psychological harm to them, it infringes upon their human rights and the negative consequences are endless.

Being gay does not affect the rights of anyone and does not endanger anyone. The fact that you think that your point is legitimate is far more worrying. There are plenty of practises that are technically natural that aren't legal but that is because they endanger others or infringe upon the rights of others. However homosexuality does not do any such thing and there's no reason to say that there's something wrong with it.

wolfsbane · 16-07-2012 08:48PM

Zillah wrote: »

You seem to be confusing a few things here.

When a gay person says "I was born this way" they are usually saying it in response to someone saying something like "You are a deviant" or "You chose to be this way", or, indeed, "You are an abomination in God's eyes". You can hardly claim that God disapproves of your nature when it is He that defined that nature.

No one is claiming that their nature compels them to act on their sexuality, however. A reasonable person's response would be that suppressing one's sexuality tends to be a very unhealthy and, often, dangerous thing to do. Just look at the suicide statistics for gay teenagers, it is really quite horrifying, and almost exclusively the fault of a society that tries to convince them that they are dirty and broken down to the core, and weak for not being able to change.

The key difference with paedophilia is that because expressing it would harm children the individual simply has to endure the consequences of suppressing their sexuality because the alternative is unacceptable.

God did not make us selfish or vicious or lazy or - or any other sinful thing we just do because we are that way. We became that when Adam fell. We are all born just naturally heading off in our own way, not God's.

That applies to sexual orientation too. God made Adam and Eve heterosexual. After the Fall, sexually perverted desires came in as well. Men and women became dissatisfied with their husband/wife and looked for heterosexual excitement in others. Some find it is homosexual rather than heterosexual activity they desire. Others find it is with children or animals. Others find their desires crossing several of these. All sinful departures from the origin sexual natural God gave men and women.

So the "I was born this way" is no defence. At best it establishes how depraved we are even without society's pressures.

******************************************************************
Ephesians 2:2 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

qrrgprgua · 16-07-2012 08:55PM

Corkfeen wrote: »

You just assume the two are comparable which they are not. One causes a lifetime of pain for a child. While the other is between two consenting adults who love each other. Both parties are gay and choose to enter a relationship, this causes no harm whatsoever to either party and there is no reason it should not be socially acceptable.Being homosexual is natural and the next part is key, it is two people of the same orientation in a relationship of their free will. A child is incapable of consenting and it will cause psychological harm to them, it infringes upon their human rights and the negative consequences are endless.

Being gay does not affect the rights of anyone and does not endanger anyone. The fact that you think that your point is legitimate is far more worrying. There are plenty of practises that are technically natural that aren't legal but that is because they endanger others or infringe upon the rights of others. However homosexuality does not do any such thing and there's no reason to say that there's something wrong with it.

I agree with most above. But when you say natural,, its not really natural for a Man to be attracted to men? I am not saying its wrong.. Its like being blind naturally people see..?

My brother is Gay, has a partner for years, very happy, openly is what he is, all family support him and he helps us.. He sees nothing wrong with his life, he harms no one and he made his decision. as a society I think we should allow others to live their life as they want in this regard. As Christians faith is a gift and we should not judge those who don't believe.

wolfsbane · 16-07-2012 08:59PM

Corkfeen wrote: »

You just assume the two are comparable which they are not. One causes a lifetime of pain for a child. While the other is between two consenting adults who love each other. Both parties are gay and choose to enter a relationship, this causes no harm whatsoever to either party and there is no reason it should not be socially acceptable.Being homosexual is natural and the next part is key, it is two people of the same orientation in a relationship of their free will. A child is incapable of consenting and it will cause psychological harm to them, it infringes upon their human rights and the negative consequences are endless.

Being gay does not affect the rights of anyone and does not endanger anyone. The fact that you think that your point is legitimate is far more worrying. There are plenty of practises that are technically natural that aren't legal but that is because they endanger others or infringe upon the rights of others. However homosexuality does not do any such thing and there's no reason to say that there's something wrong with it.

But I am not equating the two as to degree of wickedness. The paedophile is indeed the much greater offender, since he harms the non-consenting, innocent child.

I am saying both are wicked. Consent to sin does not make it right. God hates it and will punish those who do not repent of all their sins, homosexuality included.

If you think I'm saying the State should punish homosexuality, you are mistaken. Consenting adults should be left to their own morality and behaviour.

What I don't want the State to do is try to make me declare homosexuality is not a sin. I believe in civil and religious liberty, my own as well as others. The homosexual has the right to assert the morality of his sexuality; I have the right to assert its immorality.

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1 Corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

Wanderer2010 · 16-07-2012 09:02PM

wolfsbane wrote: »

Indeed, they are different in the way you say. One involves non-consent, the other not. As to homosexuality not hurting anyone, that is at least disputable - the Christian will say it degrades the spirit of both parties by its unnatural affections and acts, and brings God's wrath for its perversion of His provision of sex.

But my point was not to link homosexuality with paedophilia - just to show that the common homosexual defence 'I was born this way/ it's an orientation, not a choice' is invalid. Even if true, it establishes no more than the same defence does for paedophilia.

*************************************************************
Ephesians 2:2 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

Wow, your ignorance is shocking. Im a homosexual and I WAS born this way, the same way I have blue eyes and brown hair. I cant make it any clearer than this: Homosexuals fancy people of their own sex because they are reacting to a natural sexual innate bodily urge in the exact same way that straight people fancy women, thats it, in every other way we are like regular people, we get sad angry happy fat thin, some of us are thin some fat etc. And as for the Christian view on that, I would take their hypocritical opinion with a huge dose of salt, given they have been using religion as the mask to cover the biggest paedo organisation that ever existed, all in the name of God and religion.

Himosexuals dont have to "defend" themselves, they are what they are, end of story, and no amount of conditioning will "cure" it. Please think about what you post before you spout such nonsense. :rolleyes:

wolfsbane · 16-07-2012 09:03PM

qrrgprgua wrote: »

As Christians faith is a gift and we should not judge those who don't believe.

Correct. God judges them. But we are commissioned to call all sinners to repentance, to warn them to flee from the wrath to come. If we love them, we will not spare their feelings and leave them to the fire.

***********************************************************************
1 Corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

Actor · 16-07-2012 09:04PM

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

Wow, your ignorance is shocking. Im a homosexual and I WAS born this way, the same way I have blue eyes and brown hair. I cant make it any clearer than this: Homosexuals fancy people of their own sex because they are reacting to a natural sexual innate bodily urge in the exact same way that straight people fancy women, thats it, in every other way we are like regular people, we get sad angry happy fat thin, some of us are thin some fat etc. And as for the Christian view on that, I would take their hypocritical opinion with a huge dose of salt, given they have been using religion as the mask to cover the biggest paedo organisation that ever existed, all in the name of God and religion.

Himosexuals dont have to "defend" themselves, they are what they are, end of story, and no amount of conditioning will "cure" it. Please think about what you post before you spout such nonsense. :rolleyes:

I have no doubt that there are many Catholics of homosexual inclination (we all have our vices), but they are called to lead chaste, Christian lives.

qrrgprgua · 16-07-2012 09:05PM

What is a sin and what is unlawful are 2 different things. My brother knows my religous views and i know his..

Faith is a Path we follow, sex outside marriage with whoever is a Sin. And in our eyes is wrong. And society can't tell us to change out faith or to say our faith is wrong.

Fanny Cradock · 16-07-2012 09:06PM

Zillah wrote: »

Just look at the suicide statistics for gay teenagers, it is really quite horrifying, and almost exclusively the fault of a society that tries to convince them that they are dirty and broken down to the core, and weak for not being able to change.

It is indeed it is horrifying. To think that someone could be driven to suicide.

However, in relation to the second part of your post, it is my understanding that suicide rates amongst gay men in places like San Fran, Amsterdam and other cities that would have large gay communities and a population that you would think generally doesn't actively disprove of gay lifestyles is not significantly different to other cities maybe not considered as gay friendly. I can't say why this is.

Anyway, yet another thread on homosexuality.

wolfsbane · 16-07-2012 09:09PM

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

Wow, your ignorance is shocking. Im a homosexual and I WAS born this way, the same way I have blue eyes and brown hair. I cant make it any clearer than this: Homosexuals fancy people of their own sex because they are reacting to a natural sexual innate bodily urge in the exact same way that straight people fancy women, thats it, in every other way we are like regular people, we get sad angry happy fat thin, some of us are thin some fat etc. And as for the Christian view on that, I would take their hypocritical opinion with a huge dose of salt, given they have been using religion as the mask to cover the biggest paedo organisation that ever existed, all in the name of God and religion.

Himosexuals dont have to "defend" themselves, they are what they are, end of story, and no amount of conditioning will "cure" it. Please think about what you post before you spout such nonsense. :rolleyes:

Did I say you were not born that way? I said even if you were, that is no proof that it is morally right. The article claims paedophiles are born that way - yet you and I condemn their desires & behaviour.

As to hypocrites claiming to be Christian, yes, there always has been a lot of that about. A reasonable man will test their sincerity by comparing their behaviour with their God's commandments.
*************************************************************
1 Corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

qrrgprgua · 16-07-2012 09:09PM

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

It is indeed it is horrifying. To think that someone could be driven to suicide.

However, in relation to the second part of your post, it is my understanding that suicide rates amongst gay men in places like San Fran, Amsterdam and other cities that would have large gay communities and a population that you would think generally doesn't actively disprove of gay lifestyles is not significantly different to other cities maybe not considered as gay friendly. I can't say why this is.

Anyway, yet another thread on homosexuality.

Indeed.. My brother was bullied for years in school... Being Gay is not easy.. Lets be careful, life is hard enough without saying to a gay man.... Go and be a lonely bachelor for the rest of your life. Sometimes company and to have a companion is good.

wolfsbane · 16-07-2012 09:11PM

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

Anyway, yet another thread on homosexuality.

Yes, it is drifting from my original point regarding the 'I was born that way' homosexual defence.

Lock it if you like.

LizT · 16-07-2012 09:48PM

tommy2bad wrote: »

WOW, just wow!
That has to be trolling.
Must. Not. Feed.

I'd question any poster that joined 2 months ago and has racked up over 2000 posts in that time :rolleyes:

Zillah · 16-07-2012 10:28PM

wolfsbane wrote: »

God did not make us selfish or vicious or lazy or - or any other sinful thing we just do because we are that way. We became that when Adam fell. We are all born just naturally heading off in our own way, not God's.

That applies to sexual orientation too. God made Adam and Eve heterosexual. After the Fall, sexually perverted desires came in as well. Men and women became dissatisfied with their husband/wife and looked for heterosexual excitement in others. Some find it is homosexual rather than heterosexual activity they desire. Others find it is with children or animals. Others find their desires crossing several of these. All sinful departures from the origin sexual natural God gave men and women.

So the "I was born this way" is no defence. At best it establishes how depraved we are even without society's pressures.

Right; so your position is and always has been "Anything other than monogamous heterosexuality is wrong and perverted". Paedophilia being defined as an orientation really has nothing to do with it, this thread is basically just a soapbox for you.

Also, if you're so convinced that heterosexuality is the natural order as defined by God, how do you explain the widely documented examples of homosexuality in animals? They are not moral creatures and could not be subject to moral failings, they simply execute their natures as God designed them. Isn't it strange that we and animals behave in such similar ways, even though we are fundamentally - supposedly - different classes of creatures?

You also mentioned original sin. While we're on the topic, I'd like to note that I find it really strange that God would design reality in such a way that a disobedient act from a pair of humans would have an impact so pervasive, wide-spread and possessing such longevity.

PopePalpatine · 16-07-2012 10:34PM

wolfsbane wrote: »

1 Corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

wolfsbane, do you believe every single word in the Bible is true?

Snappy Smurf · 16-07-2012 10:49PM

Just as I thought that the forum was getting boring, along comes a thread on homosexuality!

Well I think there is only one 'orientation' as such: the man is oriented to the woman for the purposes of making baby.

I think this issue of suicide is missing the point. Young guys who feel suicidal and also are feeling these attractions need to be loved and affirmed as men. I speak from experience here. Without affirmation and love, they die, either spiritually, or physically, or both. Telling them to embrace their (disordered) attractions is not an effective remedy to wholeness. It's just like pouring petrol on a fire in order to put it out.

I don't think labeling, or encouraging young men to self-identify, as gay or homosexual is a useful exercise. How about we love them as brothers? I think that would be a good start. And I think we need to listen to their pain and sadness. Is this support available in our churches? Perhaps. Perhaps not. In many cases, I suspect it's not.

Sexual Orientation

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