Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12 MOD POST #1130

Dont be at yourself · 16-07-2012 05:00PM

There was talk when Rodgers initially ruled himself out of the running for the job that he had fairly drastic views on the squad and that he'd only take the job if he could ship out some of the expensive flops of the Dalglish regime. If that were true, I'd figure it was more aimed at Downing and Adam, seeing as Carroll at least had shown improvement in the closing months of the season.

If we sell him, so be it. Rodgers has to be allowed to shape his squad, and ultimately he will live and die by those decisions. At £20 million, I could even get on board with it myself.

Chucky the tree · 16-07-2012 05:00PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

If Rodgers lets Carroll go for ~15m he's a moron.

It's a great bit of business. Very impressed with him so far.

amiable · 16-07-2012 05:03PM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18850955

Newcastle are expected to return with an improved offer to Liverpool striker Andy Carroll on loan.
Liverpool dismissed Newcastle's first offer on Sunday night, but the Anfield club will consider an improved offer.

The Newcastle hierarchy have retained their admiration for the 23-year-old since he left for Liverpool in 2011.
The forward had initially resolved to prove himself to new Reds boss Brendan Rodgers but is now understood to be keen to return to his hometown club.
The initial offer fell below Liverpool's expectations, with Newcastle only offering to pay part of Carroll's £80,000-a-week wages.
The proposal included a clause that would have seen Newcastle pay £13m if the deal had been made permanent - the Anfield club are understood to want at least £17m.
Carroll was not with the Liverpool squad as they left for a pre-season tour of North America on Monday having been granted an extended holiday after Euro 2012.
The England striker is due to join up with the squad on 23 July, alongside other internationals such as captain Steven Gerrard and goalkeeper Pepe Reina.
West Ham co-owner David Gold has also said the Upton Park club would be interested in signing Carroll.
Carroll struggled with Liverpool until belatedly finding both form and goals towards the end of last season.

He headed the winner for Liverpool against Blackburn, while also scoring against Everton in a FA Cup semi-final win and the 2-1 loss to Chelsea in the final.
He scored for England at Euro 2012 in the win against Sweden, but appears to have fallen out of favour at Anfield.
Rodgers signed striker Fabio Borini from Roma earlier this week in his first signing since taking over as Liverpool manager.
He is also planning contract talks to keep Uruguayan forward Luis Suarez at Anfield but has been noncommittal when talking about Carroll's future.
The striker helped the Magpies back into the Premier League with 17 league goals in the 2009-10 Championship season.
Carroll continued his promising form in the top flight in the following campaign and made his senior England debut under Fabio Capello in a 2-1 defeat at Wembley by France.
He scored 11 times in 19 league games before becoming the most expensive British player when ex-Liverpool manager Kenny Dalglish took him to Anfield.

Knex* · 16-07-2012 05:03PM

Although initially I was against the selling of Carroll, and would like to see him in and around the squad next year, if we can get 20m for him I'd nearly walk him there myself.

LuckyLloyd · 16-07-2012 05:03PM

PaulieC wrote: »

What would you like to see Rodgers do with the squad Lloyd?

Keep Carroll? Bring in who, strengthen where etc?

Selling Carroll is simply not an option, not yet. He has just put together his best block of form for us and the price is simply too low right now. We / Rodgers is obliged to rotate him in up top and see if he can push on this year. Yes, he has been disappointing but he is still very young and has an upside that the likes of Henderson / Downing / Adam can't touch.

What I would do is a much longer post that I don't have time to get into for the moment...

amiable · 16-07-2012 05:06PM

Knex. wrote: »

Although initially I was against the selling of Carroll, and would like to see him in and around the squad next year, if we can get 20m for him I'd nearly walk him there myself.

I don't think Carroll will leave for 20 million

joe123 · 16-07-2012 05:07PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Selling Carroll is simply not an option, not yet. He has just put together his best block of form for us and the price is simply too low right now. We / Rodgers is obliged to rotate him in up top and see if he can push on this year. Yes, he has been disappointing but he is still very young and has an upside that the likes of Henderson / Downing / Adam can't touch.

What I would do is a much longer post that I don't have time to get into for the moment...

What of the fact that he just doesn't fit into Rodgers plans/style?

amiable · 16-07-2012 05:08PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Selling Carroll is simply not an option, not yet. He has just put together his best block of form for us and the price is simply too low right now. We / Rodgers is obliged to rotate him in up top and see if he can push on this year. Yes, he has been disappointing but he is still very young and has an upside that the likes of Henderson / Downing / Adam can't touch.

What I would do is a much longer post that I don't have time to get into for the moment...

If he stays and doesn't play he'll surely be worth much less next season.
Rodgers by actually not saying much has created a bit of a fuss and interest in Carroll.
He seems to want rid and it may be for more than we know.
I wouldn't be surprised if his agent has actually started this all off as he isn't the most pleasant man in the world. (I'm being polite:))

LuckyLloyd · 16-07-2012 05:09PM

Chucky the tree wrote: »

It's a great bit of business. Very impressed with him so far.

Impressed with what?

Aurelio was always leaving. Kuyt / Maxi left of their own accord. He couldn't convince Maxi to stay. He couldn't seal the deal with a player he apparently had a great relationship with. Cole / Downing are still on the books with no indication that they're off anywhere.

He's signed Borrini which looks like it could be a decent piece of business, and it's early days - but what is there to be "very impressed" with?

Knex* · 16-07-2012 05:11PM

amiable wrote: »

I don't think Carroll will leave for 20 million

TBH, I don't either. 15m for me would be a bit too low consider the potential he showed in the last few months. However, I still have my doubts about the player, and something in the region of 18-20m can get you a player such as Huntelaar.

I think the main issue for me when it comes to making up my mind about his sale or not, is who we would replace him with. Obviously if I was told we had 10m in the bank for a striker already and someone as unrealistic as Cavani/Higuain could be got for 25m I'd sell Carroll instantly, but players of that caliber are not going to come to us.

For me, its very hard to tell how Carroll would do under Rodgers next year, but for 20m, I'd be willing to not find out.

LuckyLloyd · 16-07-2012 05:11PM

joe123 wrote: »

What of the fact that he just doesn't fit into Rodgers plans/style?

So Rodgers plans to implent plan A all of the time, every game? If his "system" can't utilise a potentially game changing physical specimen then it can get ****ed imo.

D'Agger · 16-07-2012 05:13PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Selling Carroll is simply not an option, not yet. He has just put together his best block of form for us and the price is simply too low right now. We / Rodgers is obliged to rotate him in up top and see if he can push on this year. Yes, he has been disappointing but he is still very young and has an upside that the likes of Henderson / Downing / Adam can't touch.

What I would do is a much longer post that I don't have time to get into for the moment...

No worries.

I would tend to agree on Carroll - I don't really want him to leave, especially with the way he ended the season - causing trouble for defences like we know he can.

I wouldn't include Henderson in the same bracket as Adam & Downing though tbh - he still has youth on his side like Carroll & they can both continue to develop.

The only reason I would be okay with Carroll leaving is if I was sure the replacements brought in improved the squad as a whole.

By this I mean, were Carroll to go and say, a decent winger, cover for CM/CDM and another striker of quality brought in, then I'd be fine but I'm not sure that'll happen in one window for us.

klose · 16-07-2012 05:13PM

I guess rodgers is looking at it this way he'll get the best price for him now giving his recent "form" he's obviously looking for a few more signings if he's looking to cash in. If he kept him till the next transfer window his value could've dropped by then and by the sounds of things he wont be prioritised so thats a possibility..

D'Agger · 16-07-2012 05:14PM

amiable wrote: »

If he stays and doesn't play he'll surely be worth much less next season.
Rodgers by actually not saying much has created a bit of a fuss and interest in Carroll.
He seems to want rid and it may be for more than we know.
I wouldn't be surprised if his agent has actually started this all off as he isn't the most pleasant man in the world. (I'm being polite:))

Has Rodgers said anything untoward really though?

I think the media have simply overreacted to some fairly innocent comments and caused a bit of a shítstorm as per usual

amiable · 16-07-2012 05:17PM

Knex. wrote: »

TBH, I don't either. 15m for me would be a bit too low consider the potential he showed in the last few months. However, I still have my doubts about the player, and something in the region of 18-20m can get you a player such as Huntelaar.

I think the main issue for me when it comes to making up my mind about his sale or not, is who we would replace him with. Obviously if I was told we had 10m in the bank for a striker already and someone as unrealistic as Cavani/Higuain could be got for 25m I'd sell Carroll instantly, but players of that caliber are not going to come to us.

For me, its very hard to tell how Carroll would do under Rodgers next year, but for 20m, I'd be willing to not find out.

I think the thing that influences peoples opinions is the fee Liverpool paid for Carroll. We really have to forget that as it was terrible business.
A player is only worth what someone is willing to pay for him.
We seem to be hung that other clubs fans are laughing at us over the business the club has done over the last couple of years especially.

Chardee MacDennis · 16-07-2012 05:18PM

why would Newcastle loan him for a season and then buy him?

If we believe that we're stupid, I mean they know what they're getting and they're clearly not going to buy him just like AC & Juve did with Aqua.

smileyj1987 · 16-07-2012 05:19PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

So Rodgers plans to implent plan A all of the time, every game? If his "system" can't utilise a potentially game changing physical specimen then it can get ****ed imo.

I don't want to start having a go at the manager but its seriously stupid if he does only go with a plan A . I would agree that he can get ****ed if he only wants to play one way because in this day and age its ridiculous you need to have a plan A , B , C if you want to succeed .

I believe right now we are going backwards , Borini in and Kuyt , Maxi and Aurelio all gone now so we are looking weaker . I know people say we have Aqualani and Cole back but I think we should just flog them or kill off their contracts because to me they really offer nothing .

amiable · 16-07-2012 05:19PM

PaulieC wrote: »

Has Rodgers said anything untoward really though?

I think the media have simply overreacted to some fairly innocent comments and caused a bit of a shítstorm as per usual

I think it's actually because of what Rodgers actually didn't say.
I can't emphasise enough how much his agent is probably pulling media strings at the moment and he is not a man to be trusted.
He will probably be rubbing his hands at the prospect of another big pay day.

Strawberry Fields · 16-07-2012 05:21PM

Carroll has to go a lamp post has no place in the short passing style Rodgers will look to implement, with intricate passing and drilled crosses, much the same way Ibrahimovic got sold at Barca. I just hope he recoups a good bit of what we paid and invests it wisely in some flair.

joe123 · 16-07-2012 05:25PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

So Rodgers plans to implent plan A all of the time, every game? If his "system" can't utilise a potentially game changing physical specimen then it can get ****ed imo.

For the most part it will be plan A. You really think Carroll would be happy to act as a plan B player? A player on 80 grand worth of wages, 15 or so million worth sitting on our bench for 90% of the season?

No I would much rather Rodgers gets to ship out a player he doesnt rate and bring in a player he does and one who is much better suited to his style of play.

We aren't talking about a llorente or ibrahimovich here. Unfortunately for him his asset his suited to a direct long ball team.

Thanks but no thanks. Hodgson opened our eyes to that wonderful style and it made me feel a bit sick.

qvsr46ofgc792k · 16-07-2012 05:35PM

smileyj1987 wrote: »

I don't want to start having a go at the manager but its seriously stupid if he does only go with a plan A . I would agree that he can get ****ed if he only wants to play one way because in this day and age its ridiculous you need to have a plan A , B , C if you want to succeed .

I believe right now we are going backwards , Borini in and Kuyt , Maxi and Aurelio all gone now so we are looking weaker . I know people say we have Aqualani and Cole back but I think we should just flog them or kill off their contracts because to me they really offer nothing .

So Barca have an ABC?
I could see Andy Carroll fitting into there squad alright.

Strawberry Fields · 16-07-2012 05:42PM

Barca play the short passes around the edge of the box for the breakthrough or a peno, if that doesn't work they throw pedro out on the wing and run at the full backs but they don't pump it into Crouch.

CL7 · 16-07-2012 05:44PM

smileyj1987 wrote: »

I believe right now we are going backwards , Borini in and Kuyt , Maxi and Aurelio all gone now so we are looking weaker . I know people say we have Aqualani and Cole back but I think we should just flog them or kill off their contracts because to me they really offer nothing .

Going backwards? Seriously? Maybe you should wait until the transfer window is nearly over before you judge what direction we are going in.

Morzadec · 16-07-2012 05:46PM

BastardPrince wrote: »

why would Newcastle loan him for a season and then buy him?

If we believe that we're stupid, I mean they know what they're getting and they're clearly not going to buy him just like AC & Juve did with Aqua.

This is exactly what I was thinking. What is the story with these 'loan with a view to a permanent deal' deals? Are Newcastle obliged to buy him, even if he has a stinker of a season, or is injured or whatever?

Why would we be negotiating a future fee (as the BBC article suggests) if Newcastle don't actually have to go through and pay it?

Why not just stump up the money now Newcastle?

Why can't we just settle on £15M now, permanent deal, Carroll goes back to the club he never should've left, we can put the disastrous signing behind us and go about using a very handy £15m on strengthening the squad.

Morzadec · 16-07-2012 05:49PM

godeas16 wrote: »

Barca play the short passes around the edge of the box for the breakthrough or a peno, if that doesn't work they throw pedro out on the wing and run at the full backs but they don't pump it into Crouch.

They sometimes pump it up to Piqué as a plan C. But sure Daniel Agger could do a similar job for us. I've said it before - having Carroll as a plan B would be nice, but considering the strengthening that needs to be done in the squad and the money available, it would be a very expensive luxury; a luxury we cannot afford imo.

Chucky the tree · 16-07-2012 05:52PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Impressed with what?

Aurelio was always leaving. Kuyt / Maxi left of their own accord. He couldn't convince Maxi to stay. He couldn't seal the deal with a player he apparently had a great relationship with. Cole / Downing are still on the books with no indication that they're off anywhere.

He's signed Borrini which looks like it could be a decent piece of business, and it's early days - but what is there to be "very impressed" with?

He knows what he wants. Dalglish didn't seem to have much clue what he wanted to do last year, it was a bit of mess tbh. Rodgers seems to know what his mission for the team is. Impressed with him not bending over for Signursson. It's about time we had a manager who didn't allow himself to be made a fool off in the transfer market/wages.

His desire to rid of Carroll just highlights that fact. He seems fairly ruthless which is what you want. Not someone who thinks because a previous manager spunked a stupid amount of money on a play he is now obliged to stick with him.

redzerdrog · 16-07-2012 05:52PM

Jazlynn Lively Handbag wrote: »

So Barca have an ABC?
I could see Andy Carroll fitting into there squad alright.

We are not fcuking barca!!

people need to get this in their heads

also barca could have done with someone like andy carroll against chelsea this year

G.K. · 16-07-2012 05:55PM

No, Barca just needed to not be having an off day.

They had 5 or 6 clear cut chances in the first game, and several more and a penalty in the 2nd. If they'd had their finishing boots on those days nobody would be talking about them needing a plan B.

qvsr46ofgc792k · 16-07-2012 05:58PM

redzerdrog wrote: »

We are not fcuking barca!!

people need to get this in their heads

also barca could have done with someone like andy carroll against chelsea this year

I never said we were, it was stated that "in this day and age its ridiculous you need to have a plan A , B , C if you want to succeed".

And that was my response.
well in good he might have been of use against chelsea but what about the other 50 odd games?

Captain Morgan Freeman · 16-07-2012 05:58PM

Jazlynn Lively Handbag wrote: »

So Barca have an ABC?
I could see Andy Carroll fitting into there squad alright.

Barca only ever had a plan A and they were found out when they played Inter Milan in 2010 and Chelsea this year. Anyone who thinks Guardiola is already a managerial great should be shown clips of their game against Chelsea when Barca passed the ball around aimlessly for 30 minutes before Ivanovic twatted it up the field once they finally made it into the Chelsea box.

Im surprised more teams haven't taken the "you want the ball barca? ****ing have it!" approach.

Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12 MOD POST #1130

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