Judge appalled at video of Gardai

10-07-2012 12:40PM

El Weirdo wrote: »

But... but... but... he's a Guard and we all know that a Guard would never lie.

Don't we?

I cant believe croker argued for four pages seemingly without reading a small (400 word) article just because it was a garda.
Garda are people too and they make mistakes, get annoyed. Just because they put on a uniform does not make them immune to the failings of all humans.

syklops · 10-07-2012 12:45PM

croker1 wrote: »

What i am trying to point out is that the guards were called for a reason. It says in the article that the man in question was drunk and abusive. He was asked to leave the premisise 4 times but did not do so.

All I am trying to say is that people are always very quick to jump down the gardai's throats. I've seen incidents like this in other countries and guards are just as bad if not much worse

I'd give up if I were you. Your fighting a one man battle of "surely we are missing something, for instance why were the guards called" against a wave of "terka terka, police brutality yada yada ordinary decent people bla blah".

I lived in Limerick for 6 years(great city! Yurt!) and never was I robbed, beaten up, stolen, murdered, arrested, had any bones broken. I did get hammered regularly though. I've been in Mollys numerous times, and if you didnt get in, you went somewhere else. And if a Guard asks you to leave an area, you leave it.

The video might show what happened after the guards arrived, but the article does not state whether it showed the antics of the accused before their arrival, or describe why the guards were called in the first place. If the judge saw evidence of police brutality, then that should be investigated seperately. I'm not defending the Gardai, I just think there is more to it, thats all.

RustyNut · 10-07-2012 12:48PM

syklops wrote: »

I just think there is more to it, thats all.

Based on what?

Boombastic · 10-07-2012 12:51PM

Based on the evidence presented in court, the video evidence, the garda lying to the court, I can feel it in my bones

syklops · 10-07-2012 12:53PM

RustyNut wrote: »

Based on what?

Based on why were the gardai called?

"999 emergency response?"
"Hi, Im the owner of Mollys niteclub. A bouncer just refused entry to two patrons and they are now calmly and quietly standing outside the club"
"Don't worry sir, we'll have the paddy wagon and some lads with batons down in 10 minutes"

Why were the gardai called?

Logical Fallacy · 10-07-2012 12:53PM

Sleepy wrote: »

And if cops weren't afraid to use physical force to apprehend violent thugs in case they lose their jobs over it, do you think the Swedish House Mafia gig would have gotten out of control?

An unarmed police force will only be as effective as the respect it can gain from all members of society. When the criminal classes have no fear of the police force, what hope have they of protecting the rest of us?

What the **** are you on about Sleepy? Did you read the article?

syklops · 10-07-2012 12:55PM

Boombastic wrote: »

Based on the evidence presented in court, the video evidence, the garda lying to the court, I can feel it in my bones

So the gardai were called because of events that happened after the initial call?

Right.

Very well, I drop my argument. Y'all have a nice day.

books4sale · 10-07-2012 01:15PM

Read the first few posts, scanned for a video,

No video = Waste of time

May as well be arguing over chalk and cheese.

Good luck!

rgmmg · 10-07-2012 01:17PM

syklops wrote: »

Based on why were the gardai called?

"999 emergency response?"
"Hi, Im the owner of Mollys niteclub. A bouncer just refused entry to two patrons and they are now calmly and quietly standing outside the club"
"Don't worry sir, we'll have the paddy wagon and some lads with batons down in 10 minutes"

Why were the gardai called?

Owner: "Batons Sir? Batons? Bring hula hoops instead and let's resolve this through rhythmic hooping alone."

Scioch · 10-07-2012 01:19PM

Gardai called to a pub where idiots were being idiots, they decided to film and antagonize the gardai.

Who gives a shít if one of them got an arm broken ? Dont really give a shít what happens to the Guard either tbh. If he cant do his job thats his problem.

But cop on ppl he didnt assault some innocent randomer for no reason. It was a drunken idiot outside a pub. He lost the head dealing with an asshole while trying to keep the peace after being called to a scene to assist the pub staff.

If it was the pub owner who did this would he be a thug or just a frustrated man trying to do his job while dealing with retards looking to cause trouble ?

Plazaman · 10-07-2012 01:21PM

"Please leave the vicinity"

"No"

"Please leave the vicinity"

"I said No"

"Please leave the vicinity now Sir"

"NO!"

"Ah come on Guard, will you not leave the vicinity?"

"No, now here's a broken arm for you"

See, we can all make up different versions of the same story. Unless someone was there or has unedited footage with surround sound of the full incident from start to finish, then both parties are at fault.

Paparazzo · 10-07-2012 01:27PM

Plazaman wrote: »

"Please leave the vicinity"

"No"

"Please leave the vicinity"

"I said No"

"Please leave the vicinity now Sir"

"NO!"

"Ah come on Guard, will you not leave the vicinity?"

"No, now here's a broken arm for you"

See, we can all make up different versions of the same story. Unless someone was there or has unedited footage with surround sound of the full incident from start to finish, then both parties are at fault.

“no interaction whatsoever”

croker1 · 10-07-2012 01:28PM

syklops wrote: »

Based on why were the gardai called?

"999 emergency response?"
"Hi, Im the owner of Mollys niteclub. A bouncer just refused entry to two patrons and they are now calmly and quietly standing outside the club"
"Don't worry sir, we'll have the paddy wagon and some lads with batons down in 10 minutes"

Why were the gardai called?

My point exactly!
There will always be the group that insist the guards are always wrong.

SocSocPol · 10-07-2012 01:34PM

croker1 wrote: »

My point exactly!
There will always be the group that insist the guards are always wrong.

They were wrong in this case and in others, there will always be those who argue that the Gardai are never wrong.

Scioch · 10-07-2012 01:34PM

croker1 wrote: »

My point exactly!
There will always be the group that insist the guards are always wrong.

Like the OP, absolutely delighted at finding this out so he could declare "They just cant help themselves".

What I'd like to know though is all these people who despise the gardai and think a police force should be made up of people with unerring knowledge of the law, unwavering professionalism in the face of anything and incorruptible integrity to place them above everyone else in the country as the epitome of all that is good about mankind.

Where do we find these people ? This isnt a perfect world, Gardai are not perfect human beings. How does a small percentage of them losing the head when dealing with retards equate to "they are all thugs" ??

BoardsMember · 10-07-2012 01:35PM

There's a fairly widely held view in the courts, by solicitors & barristers, that it is not unknown for some Gardaí to say whatever it takes to help get a conviction. This view is held by people who represent those accused, and those defending all sorts of cases. Obviously there are loads of good Gardai, presumably more than bad ones.

My only experience with a Garda that pissed me right off was when I was nearly knocked down at a pedestrian crossing. I was crossing with the green man, and a truck came round the corner and nearly flattened me. I jumped out of the way. A Garda happened to be right there. I asked him did he see what happened, and told him the truck broke the lights and nearly flattened me. His response? Ah sure, I know him, he's alright.

10-07-2012 01:38PM

croker1 wrote: »

My point exactly!
There will always be the group that insist the guards are always wrong.

I'm a group that insists people read an article properly before mouthing off

kevmol88 · 10-07-2012 01:39PM

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/local/judge-appalled-by-video-footage-after-man-says-garda-broke-his-arm-1-4036016

10-07-2012 01:40PM

croker1 wrote: »

The guy probably deserved it tbh! I'm pretty sure he wasn't as innocent as a lot of people are making him out to be

croker1 wrote: »

Bouncers wouldn't call the guards for nothing! He was obviously being a scumbag in the first place.

Just because the video cuts in at a time which favours the 'victim' doesn't mean he was completely innocent

croker1 wrote: »

I can admit that maybe the guard went a bit far BUT it would have never happened if the man in question hadn't been acting the gowl in the first place.

Has such a thing ever happened you? Probably not, because you were never being a scumbag. People draw this kind of thing on themselves mostly.

croker1 wrote: »

So why were the guards called in the first place?

croker1 wrote: »

What i am trying to point out is that the guards were called for a reason. It says in the article that the man in question was drunk and abusive. He was asked to leave the premisise 4 times but did not do so.

All I am trying to say is that people are always very quick to jump down the gardai's throats. I've seen incidents like this in other countries and guards are just as bad if not much worse

croker1 wrote: »

My point exactly!
There will always be the group that insist the guards are always wrong.

And there will always be those who argue the inexcusable. :rolleyes:
Good God man let it go, this Garda was wrong.
In court a judge in possesion of the available evidence made a ruling!
The garda was wrong, does this mean all garda are wrong?
I would say No it does not, but it does prove this one lied and was guilty IMHO of assault.

super_furry · 10-07-2012 01:42PM

croker1 wrote: »

My point exactly!
There will always be the group that insist the guards are always wrong.

Conversely there will always be the group who are willing to flat out just ignore the evidence given to a court, the proof that the Garda is lying and a judges findings and just make excuse after excuse after excuse for a Garda assaulting someone and breaking their arm.

I honestly hope you're never called for jury duty.

syklops · 10-07-2012 01:44PM

bluewolf wrote: »

I'm a group that insists people read an article properly before mouthing off

Great, so you can shed some light on why the gardai were called then?

SocSocPol · 10-07-2012 01:45PM

LordSmeg wrote: »

Like the OP, absolutely delighted at finding this out so he could declare "They just cant help themselves".

What I'd like to know though is all these people who despise the gardai and think a police force should be made up of people with unerring knowledge of the law, unwavering professionalism in the face of anything and incorruptible integrity to place them above everyone else in the country as the epitome of all that is good about mankind.

Where do we find these people ? This isnt a perfect world, Gardai are not perfect human beings. How does a small percentage of them losing the head when dealing with retards equate to "they are all thugs" ??

I never said they were all thugs, but at least one of these two was, and based upon the report of the case in todays Irish Times both of them decided to commit perjury in order to convict a man that one of them had assaulted. I for one do not want a police force where such actions are deemed acceptable or the norm. Nor is this case case unusual, I also gave a link to case where two Gardai in Dublin were convicted of assaulting a passerby who filmed them, then there was the case in Waterford where three gardai visciously assaluted a man while a collegue perverted the course of Justice by turning the CCTV away while they did it, oh and have I mentioned Donegal yet?

Scioch · 10-07-2012 01:51PM

SocSocPol wrote: »

I never said they were all thugs, but at least one of these two was, and based upon the report of the case in todays Irish Times both of them decided to commit perjury in order to convict a man that one of them had assaulted. I for one do not want a police force where such actions are deemed acceptable or the norm. Nor is this case case unusual, I also gave a link to case where two Gardai in Dublin were convicted of assaulting a passerby who filmed them, then there was the case in Waterford where three gardai visciously assaluted a man while a collegue perverted the course of Justice by turning the CCTV away while they did it, oh and have I mentioned Donegal yet?

Yet you opened the thread with "They just cant help themselves, can they?"

Those actions are not acceptable, you have no proof they are the norm. You are taking the actions of a few individuals and using it to have a pop at an entire service of people sent out to deal with arseholes and idiots on a regular basis and DO manage to keep their heads and do a good job.

Wow whats that 3 instances out of the how many times the Gardai manages to do their jobs ? Hundreds of thousands ? Well the whole damn thing is corrupt so !!! Nobody is perfect. Some Gardai are going to be scum. Some firemen are going to be scum. Some Doctors, nurses, accountants, primary school teachers are going to be scum. Thats just the way it is. Stop looking for excuses to attack the Gardai for whatever childish notions of rebellion that is clouding your mind. Just grow up ffs.

Triangla · 10-07-2012 01:54PM

syklops wrote: »

Great, so you can shed some light on why the gardai were called then?

Are the Gardai not trained in arrest procedures in Templemore?

If there is a need to arrest someone, do it for an actual reason and with a duty of care.

Don't make up a reason and break his arm just because he's drunk.

Gardai like that give the rest of them a bad name. Sticking up for a Garda's actions when wrong doesn't do anyone any favours.

If there was no video evidence, that Garda may have been believed and the guy could have ended up with a criminal record.

oddman2 · 10-07-2012 01:55PM

LordSmeg wrote: »

Yet you opened the thread with "They just cant help themselves, can they?"

Those actions are not acceptable, you have no proof they are the norm. You are taking the actions of a few individuals and using it to have a pop at an entire service of people sent out to deal with arseholes and idiots on a regular basis and DO manage to keep their heads and do a good job.

Wow whats that 3 instances out of the how many times the Gardai manages to do their jobs ? Hundreds of thousands ? Well the whole damn thing is corrupt so !!! Nobody is perfect. Some Gardai are going to be scum. Some firemen are going to be scum. Some Doctors, nurses, accountants, primary school teachers are going to be scum. Thats just the way it is. Stop looking for excuses to attack the Gardai for whatever childish notions of rebellion that is clouding your mind. Just grow up ffs.

That doesn't mean that we shouldn't condemn stuff like this when it happens.

10-07-2012 01:55PM

LordSmeg wrote: »

Yet you opened the thread with "They just cant help themselves, can they?"

Those actions are not acceptable, you have no proof they are the norm. You are taking the actions of a few individuals and using it to have a pop at an entire service of people sent out to deal with arseholes and idiots on a regular basis and DO manage to keep their heads and do a good job.
Wow whats that 3 instances out of the how many times the Gardai manages to do their jobs ? Hundreds of thousands ? Well the whole damn thing is corrupt so !!! Nobody is perfect. Some Gardai are going to be scum. Some firemen are going to be scum. Some Doctors, nurses, accountants, primary school teachers are going to be scum. Thats just the way it is. Stop looking for excuses to attack the Gardai for whatever childish notions of rebellion that is clouding your mind. Just grow up ffs.

Some of the people they deal with not all! :rolleyes:
They would do well to remember that.
You are turning this into a Garda V's the People war while you accuse the OP of doing the same.

SocSocPol · 10-07-2012 01:58PM

kincsem · 10-07-2012 02:00PM

staker wrote: »

I wouldn't like to be a guard in this country.
If only the judicial system stood behind the law enforcers a lot of this kinda stuff would be wiped out.

Its the force that the enforcers illegally use when there is no need to use force when someone is acting legally that the judges don't like.
What kinda stuff would be wiped out? People acting legally.

TheChizler · 10-07-2012 02:17PM

syklops wrote: »

Great, so you can shed some light on why the gardai were called then?

But we don't even know for sure that they were "called". They could have been standing across the road for all we know, and came over when they heard the lads protesting. We don't know that the lads were being belligerent at the door. Anything that those particular Guards have said about the situation can't be taken at face value.

MarkHitide · 10-07-2012 02:20PM

"Mr Twomey made his laptop available to the judge and the prosecution to view footage he had secured from the pub and this told a tale that was “at odds” with the evidence of gardaí."

Presumably the Guardai were unaware of video footage that might be used to dispute their no-doubt mis-membered recollection of the of events. Luckily, the defence were able to clarify everything to the satisfaction of all involved. If only the guard involved had allowed the defendant to continue with his personal recording this mis-understanding would not have occurred in the first place-

Judge appalled at video of Gardai

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